8 ms·

Netflix and Facebook are tough places to coast or to rest and vest. Other places, if one just meets expectations, he/she is fine.

theGnuMe 4y ago
"Meets expectations" is part of managing workforce promotions.
gamblor956 4y ago
I was offered a (non-tech) job at Netflix for a position 2 levels below my current title for 3x my current salary. When I expressed surprise, the HR rep said that Netflix was "top of the market" because they expect employees to work hard. By the time I finished going through the interview process, the person who was supposed to be my boss had already left due to burnout. The person who was supposed to report to me had become my boss by the time I received an offer, but left by what would have been my start date. I would have ended up in charge of the department if I had taken the job. Netflix, at least, is a grinder, and they pay correspondingly.
- notch656a 4y ago
  Anyone who has a spouse or children should also consider that in the very unlucky event the worst happens and a divorce or child support or alimony order is ordered while working for a FAANG, the judge may consider your FAANG income as your 'imputed income' in the future so taking a lower-stress job may not incur recomputing of your support orders. That is, your choice may look something like "grind at FAANGs forever" or wither in jail and/or always on the edge of bankruptcy. That's enough to scare the shit out of me from working at this double+ salary high-stress jobs. This is not legal advice, IANAL.
  - hiq 4y ago
    I mean if you have this kind of concerns, isn't it better to get a prenup? Doesn't it solve the problem?
    - yodsanklai 4y ago
      Or just not getting married... in my part of the world getting married is the exception rather than the norm.
      - abdabab 4y ago
        Where is that?
      - belter 4y ago
        In most parts of the world, married or not married, will give your partner the same rights and responsibilities.
        hiq 4y ago
        Which part of the world? Even without civil partnership? Does it mean that there's a legal battle to define whether a certain person can be considered a partner?
        belter 4y ago
        It's called a de facto union. Example: "Unmarried Couples ...This page is about partners in a stable relationship who are not married or registered with any authority..." - https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/family/couple/de-facto-unions/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/family/couple/de-facto...
    - nradov 4y ago
      Generally speaking pre-nuptial agreements in California mainly cover assets and income sources that a spouse had before the marriage. They wouldn't impact how a family law judge calculates imputed income for alimony or child support due to taking a higher paying job during the marriage. There are some additional complexities there so talk to an attorney if this is a concern for you. A post-nuptial agreement can also be an option.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - gamblor956 4y ago
    If you get a new job they can re calculate spousal support. That's been the rule for decades, and MRA FUD notwithstanding courts will not force a spouse to maintain a job they hate to maintain the ex spouses standard of living... Unless there's evidence that you are taking the new job for the purpose of lowering your spousal (or child) support obligations, in which case they will impute income. (But note that appellate courts have been more willing to strike down imputed income orders than they traditionally were). A post divorce party increase generally does not result in higher spousal support unless it might restore an earlier level of spousal support, but either way it would increase child support.
  - jstarfish 4y ago
    Not a lawyer, but married to a divorcee. This scenario doesn't work as you expect if you get your first high-paying job and are served with divorce papers a week later. You have to be making that much money for something like 1-2 years for it to be considered any sort of baseline. IMO, salespeople are hit hardest by this due to economic boom/bust cycles. You live an extravagant life when times are good, then get divorced during a recession and end up absolutely ruined because your earning potential (and imputed income) are tied to factors beyond your immediate control. Bankruptcy does not relieve you of child support obligations. Unsure about alimony, but I doubt it. If you have to get a lower-paying job after maintaining a higher-paying one, you can file for a modification, but you can only do this once every 3 years or so. It works both ways too-- your ex can file for a modification of child/spousal support (every 3 years) if they anticipate raises or promotions on your part.
calrueb 4y ago
Do you mean for a mid-level engineer with experience, or a college grad like the parent comment? My impression is if you were to try rest-and-vesting as an L3 (junior) SWE at any FAANG firm, you are eventually going to get PIP'ed out. It is very much "up or out" at least to L4 or L5. You may be able to hang around for two years, but then you're going to find yourself back in the job market. That said if we are talking about mid-level/L5 engineers... then yes, I agree. From a far, it seems very possible to coast for a full 4 year equity grant if you situate yourself correctly, and have a manager that lets it slide.
- raincom 4y ago
  Not for juniors,of course.
- kodah 4y ago
  An L3 who remains an L3 will get PIP'd. If they're tenured it's possible, but if they're forever senior people will start doubting them. Staff, I think, is the first level that can really be "sat" in. I say sat in because at Staff "coasting" probably has a different definition that's what being used by the phrase people are referencing. It's more like you don't have to chase advancement to stay employed.
  - piva00 4y ago
    Which doesn't really make sense. Not necessarily every senior engineer wants or even should become Staff. It's a completely different role, it also has much less vacancies than for seniors. Forcing seniors to go up or out is an illogical way to shoot yourself on the foot... They are the experienced engineers who can train the next batch of junior/mid-level that might want to become Staff later. Seniors are usually the engine of onboarding. Some people like to be good at what they do without having to chase higher positions to perform a different job, I really don't understand why a company would force seniors to go up or out.

theGnuMe 4y ago

"Meets expectations" is part of managing workforce promotions.

gamblor956 4y ago

I was offered a (non-tech) job at Netflix for a position 2 levels below my current title for 3x my current salary. When I expressed surprise, the HR rep said that Netflix was "top of the market" because they expect employees to work hard. By the time I finished going through the interview process, the person who was supposed to be my boss had already left due to burnout. The person who was supposed to report to me had become my boss by the time I received an offer, but left by what would have been my start date. I would have ended up in charge of the department if I had taken the job. Netflix, at least, is a grinder, and they pay correspondingly.

notch656a 4y ago
Anyone who has a spouse or children should also consider that in the very unlucky event the worst happens and a divorce or child support or alimony order is ordered while working for a FAANG, the judge may consider your FAANG income as your 'imputed income' in the future so taking a lower-stress job may not incur recomputing of your support orders. That is, your choice may look something like "grind at FAANGs forever" or wither in jail and/or always on the edge of bankruptcy. That's enough to scare the shit out of me from working at this double+ salary high-stress jobs. This is not legal advice, IANAL.
- hiq 4y ago
  I mean if you have this kind of concerns, isn't it better to get a prenup? Doesn't it solve the problem?
  - yodsanklai 4y ago
    Or just not getting married... in my part of the world getting married is the exception rather than the norm.
    - abdabab 4y ago
      Where is that?
    - belter 4y ago
      In most parts of the world, married or not married, will give your partner the same rights and responsibilities.
      - hiq 4y ago
        Which part of the world? Even without civil partnership? Does it mean that there's a legal battle to define whether a certain person can be considered a partner?
        belter 4y ago
        It's called a de facto union. Example: "Unmarried Couples ...This page is about partners in a stable relationship who are not married or registered with any authority..." - https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/family/couple/de-facto-unions/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/family/couple/de-facto...
  - nradov 4y ago
    Generally speaking pre-nuptial agreements in California mainly cover assets and income sources that a spouse had before the marriage. They wouldn't impact how a family law judge calculates imputed income for alimony or child support due to taking a higher paying job during the marriage. There are some additional complexities there so talk to an attorney if this is a concern for you. A post-nuptial agreement can also be an option.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- gamblor956 4y ago
  If you get a new job they can re calculate spousal support. That's been the rule for decades, and MRA FUD notwithstanding courts will not force a spouse to maintain a job they hate to maintain the ex spouses standard of living... Unless there's evidence that you are taking the new job for the purpose of lowering your spousal (or child) support obligations, in which case they will impute income. (But note that appellate courts have been more willing to strike down imputed income orders than they traditionally were). A post divorce party increase generally does not result in higher spousal support unless it might restore an earlier level of spousal support, but either way it would increase child support.
- jstarfish 4y ago
  Not a lawyer, but married to a divorcee. This scenario doesn't work as you expect if you get your first high-paying job and are served with divorce papers a week later. You have to be making that much money for something like 1-2 years for it to be considered any sort of baseline. IMO, salespeople are hit hardest by this due to economic boom/bust cycles. You live an extravagant life when times are good, then get divorced during a recession and end up absolutely ruined because your earning potential (and imputed income) are tied to factors beyond your immediate control. Bankruptcy does not relieve you of child support obligations. Unsure about alimony, but I doubt it. If you have to get a lower-paying job after maintaining a higher-paying one, you can file for a modification, but you can only do this once every 3 years or so. It works both ways too-- your ex can file for a modification of child/spousal support (every 3 years) if they anticipate raises or promotions on your part.

calrueb 4y ago

Do you mean for a mid-level engineer with experience, or a college grad like the parent comment? My impression is if you were to try rest-and-vesting as an L3 (junior) SWE at any FAANG firm, you are eventually going to get PIP'ed out. It is very much "up or out" at least to L4 or L5. You may be able to hang around for two years, but then you're going to find yourself back in the job market. That said if we are talking about mid-level/L5 engineers... then yes, I agree. From a far, it seems very possible to coast for a full 4 year equity grant if you situate yourself correctly, and have a manager that lets it slide.

raincom 4y ago
Not for juniors,of course.
kodah 4y ago
An L3 who remains an L3 will get PIP'd. If they're tenured it's possible, but if they're forever senior people will start doubting them. Staff, I think, is the first level that can really be "sat" in. I say sat in because at Staff "coasting" probably has a different definition that's what being used by the phrase people are referencing. It's more like you don't have to chase advancement to stay employed.
- piva00 4y ago
  Which doesn't really make sense. Not necessarily every senior engineer wants or even should become Staff. It's a completely different role, it also has much less vacancies than for seniors. Forcing seniors to go up or out is an illogical way to shoot yourself on the foot... They are the experienced engineers who can train the next batch of junior/mid-level that might want to become Staff later. Seniors are usually the engine of onboarding. Some people like to be good at what they do without having to chase higher positions to perform a different job, I really don't understand why a company would force seniors to go up or out.