12 ms·

How much people lost with Celsius Network

163 points by max_ 4y ago

jonathan-adly 4y ago
The guy on the top was a BTC maxi from his holdings. Still didn’t get the no keys, no cheese idea. No one can make a better case for why we need nanny states to protect people from their own folly than this list.
- janandonly 4y ago
  You can not outlaw greed. So this list is a good case for holding your own Keys. Not your keys, not your coins.
- Dawnyhf 4y ago
- bagels 4y ago
  What is a btc maxi?
  - max_ 4y ago
    A btc maxi or 'bitcoin maximalist' is a person who believes that Bitcoin is the only legitimate cryptocurrency worth holding.
    - tradertef 4y ago
      correction. only legitimate currency ;)
      - test24234 4y ago
    - MaxGabriel 4y ago
      https://vitalik.ca/general/2022/04/01/maximalist.html https://vitalik.ca/general/2022/04/01/maximalist.html I thought Vitalin Buterin had a really nice steelman of Bitcoin maximalism.
  - booleandilemma 4y ago
    Sounds like some kind of feminine product.
    - annoyingnoob 4y ago
      If there were a programmed/finite amount of feminine products in the world they would be worth a lot more than BTC. You can't even use BTC for hygiene.
arbol 4y ago
> The details were made public on October 6 through a court filing that detailed the customers who fell victim. https://criptokio.com/en/altcoins-en/celsius-net-worth/ https://criptokio.com/en/altcoins-en/celsius-net-worth/
71a54xd 4y ago
Important lesson to learn. Not your keys. Not your crypto.
- ninepoints 4y ago
  This really isn't the lesson. The lesson is that crypto is a scam and grift-ridden space.
  - randStr_ 4y ago
    Agree. Crypto is a total bullsh!t, and just waste of energy.
throwaway0asd 4y ago
> Celsius's collapse exemplified what one commentator called a "pervasive problem in the crypto industry, where financial services that claim to be decentralized ... are actually centralized entities, with the power to control the flow of crypto assets." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius_Network https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius_Network I would like people to keep this in mind when they somehow confuse Web3 (distribution via crypto ledger) and the term decentralization. Those concepts are not related in any way.
- earnesti 4y ago
  Though people will use these terms anyway however they want, also to promote their scam(mish) products/services. It doesn't help to know the definitions if people aren't honouring them anyway.
- bmitc 4y ago
  The real fact of the matter is that decentralization does not work in human society.
  - sharms 4y ago
    There are countless examples of decentralization working across human societies. Neighborhoods, cities, counties, states, countries. In America for example forks are individually managed and not shared, and we eat very well without a central utensil management agency.
    - smachiz 4y ago
      It might surprise you to know that in fact kitchen utensils and what they're made out of is regulated in the USA - and I assume most other industrialized countries. https://www.compliancegate.com/plastic-kitchen-products-regulations-united-states/ https://www.compliancegate.com/plastic-kitchen-products-regu... The issue is decentralization != no regulation, and lots of crypto folks seem to think that they should build systems that cannot be regulated and expect that to be compatible with modern society.
mmh0000 4y ago
This is a prime example of why the Fahrenheit Scale is always the correct choice.
- 1970-01-01 4y ago
  Eh, Kelvin is better.
  - basementcat 4y ago
    Kelvin is just Celsius with an offset. Rankine FTW. Edit: Background research for this snarky remark led me to this table. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_scales_of_temperature#Comparison_of_temperature_scales https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_scales_of_temp...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - hinkley 4y ago
    A little OCD corner of my brain is very disappointed that there is no scale where absolute zero and the boiling and freezing point of water are all whole numbers. Or maybe that just means the universe is built in base 15 numbers.
    - basementcat 4y ago
    - neaden 4y ago
      I'm sure you could find some pressure where that is true for Kelvin.
      - hinkley 4y ago
        Mad scientist: And that's why I siphoned off 10% of the earth's atmosphere in order to make a temperature scale where water still boils at 100°
tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
How do they have people's legal names?
- admn2 4y ago
  I think it became public in one of the court filings
- adolph 4y ago
  It is pretty straightforward to add it into your person constructor: Person.prototype.legalName = function () { return this.fullName.toUpperCase(); }
  - test24234 4y ago
    javascript :(
    - adolph 4y ago
      Don't hate the player, hate the game: Atwood's Law: any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript. https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-principle-of-least-power/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-principle-of-least-power/
ar_lan 4y ago
So - do we just report this as cap gains loss? How does this work in the States? As far as I can tell, my investment in this went to $0. Edit: Apparently in the US, any capital loss due to loss or theft is not considered taxable capital loss, so I guess I'm just SOL. I'm glad I had diversified and my Celsius losses were only 25% of my crypto (of which, at the time, was only 3% of my total investments overall). I've completely exited crypto since this debacle and sticking with boring VTSAX and VTIAX entirely.
- xeromal 4y ago
  I got burned during the Mt Gox era and I feel like a crazy person for asking all my friends to get out of crypto. I've been a boring ETF guy since.
  - kirbypineapple 4y ago
    The funny thing is that when the trustee pays out the remaining BTC from Mt. Gox back to creditors, you're going to have some massive gains.
    - xeromal 4y ago
      I completely forgot about that and just read that they have 192,000 bitcoins in the trustee. Wow I occasionally kick myself for buying weed using bitcoin like it's intended purpose in those days. I had quite a bit. lol.
      - bbarn 4y ago
        I got a really sweet carbon fiber bicycle from the coins I mined. Figured there was no way they'd ever go higher than 20$ and it was basically free money. Looking back, sure, I could have retired on that sum if I'd held it, but at the time, I had no reasonable expectation that it would be anything but a fad. Won a few races on that bike, and met my wife on the race team. Net win.
        4y ago
BigElephant 4y ago
Why put people's names?
- xeromal 4y ago
  It's now public information from a court filing.
  - lxgr 4y ago
    As a European, the extent of what is deemed acceptable in the US to publish as part of the "public record" is baffling. Is this because previously analog processes (i.e. stuff that you could legally look up in a court's microfilm document archive in person and make photocopies of etc.) have been put on the internet indiscriminately? Or is this really generally seen as a desirable property of the legal system?
    - xeromal 4y ago
      It's just one of those systems that has both good and bad. We can't seem to pull off a grey area decision where certain info is public and some is redacted for privacy so instead of making everything private, we go nuclear and make everything public. I guess it's better than nothing. lol. It also very much depends on the state which everyone seems to forget. There are 50 different states that have different opinions of what is public information. There's a joke that Florida Man is the most devious person around but the reality is that Florida has more information made public which makes it appear that bad stuff is happening all the time there.
    - arcbyte 4y ago
      Well as a US citizen we are very skeptical of government power. Information is power. Anything the government knows that it doesn't tell its citizens has the potential for abuse of power. So on some level we like things to be as public as possible. It goes back to the idea of open courts, open legislative sessions, etc where any citizen can attend and see everything that happened except for narrow provisions for controversially protected things likes military secrets. We disagree on how much should be public and im certainly on the end of rhe spectrum that says make everything public (except for military secrets). But there are things that courts regularly make secret like names of minors, health information, social security numbers, etc.
5350-uiop-1130 4y ago
so glad i didn't use this, was very close but then read, or should i say saw, some things about a certain executive that put me right off.
- quickthrowman 4y ago
  The astronomical yield didn’t tip you off?? The yield they were paying implied excessive risk taking.
zeroclip 4y ago
Three clear and obvious outcomes of this unwinding: 1. The crypto mantra "not your keys, not your coins" rings true. 2. Entrusting your personal financial data with a private company is sure to end in disaster, either by hack or court order. Privacy should be a basic and legally protected feature of blockchains. 3. Centralized Finance or CeFi is mostly a sham and deserves to be heavily regulated. Not to be confused with on-chain and transparent Decentralized Finance or DeFi platforms like Aave that have behaved predictably through this downturn, and have never required KYC.
- no_butterscotch 4y ago
  > 1. The crypto mantra "not your keys, not your coins" rings true. I confess that I don't follow this. I only have assets on Coinbase and generally assume they're reliable enough (from a technical/security stand-point and legal) that I don't bother jumping through hoops to do a wallet on my own device or hardware wallet. Is it stupid? Maybe, but I think I'd be more likely to screw up somehow with the other approaches.
  - simonmales 4y ago
    Maybe they are. But in the advent of a hack. Even then they might have there arses covered with insurance and what not. But who can tell how long until you get your coins in such a situation.
  - scrumbledober 4y ago
    I have a similar approach, and with evidence to back it up. All my coinbase coins are still in coinbase. The coins in the wallet on my old desktop that I have somehow misplaced the tower for several years ago on the other hand...
  - kortilla 4y ago
    What you need to be concerned about is if coinbase fails for totally normal business reasons and they halt all transactions, what rights do you have? With real banks, there are pretty clear pecking orders for creditors vs depositors and depositors have FDIC to cover at least some in the worst disasters. Would you have higher priority in getting your own coins back over senior debt holders? “Not your keys, not your coins” is exactly what it sounds like. You really have no say at all in how the above scenario plays out. There have been a hundred+ years of laws to figure out how to give rights to cash, bonds, equities to people who have them held by an institution. That hasn’t happened with crypto.
loceng 4y ago
What I'd love to know is how much they put in, when their buys were, so we can see how much "profit" they would of otherwise had if they had sold. It'd be interesting to see what their role, if any, in promoting all of these various crypto-"currencies."
baobabKoodaa 4y ago
This is mean. I understand this is public information, but it's still mean to do this.
m4jor 4y ago
Thankfully only $100 or so.
koolba 4y ago
That’s pretty rough, first you get goxed, then you get doxed. Next step will be $87B worth of new IRS agents working backwards through chain data to find the source of these funds.
bArray 4y ago
How did these people lose so much? I'm checking CEL.X and it's gone from about $6 to $1 in about a year.
- greenthrow 4y ago
  Because Celsius collapsed and froze customer accounts. So people lost 100% of what they had in there.
- NaughtyShiba 4y ago
  Because they didn't -> https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992 https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992
mmmwww 4y ago
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1906156/cryptomonnaies-celsius-network-caisse-depot-placement-quebec-investissement https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1906156/cryptomonnaies-... This canadian fund lost 200$ M dollars.
- oldgradstudent 4y ago
  I wish they'd publish their due diligence report for this investment. Could be highly entertaining reading.
  - SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
    “Everyone else was making lots of money and it seemed like a good idea”
    - pepy 4y ago
      DD: "Fortune favors the brave"
magnusss 4y ago
Celsius seemed to be a classic Ponzi scheme wrapped in a cloak of crypto. The founder was a smooth-talking pitch man who claimed to have “discovered” a risk-free way to earn outsized returns by arbitraging some flaw in the centralized finance system. Madoff’s scheme was similar, but with capital markets rather than crypto. What these schemes have in common is that, once the market takes a dip, it becomes impossible to cover redemptions and the whole thing collapses. I don’t see the collapse of Celsius so much as a cautionary tale against crypto (“not your keys…”), so much as a lesson against investing in Ponzi-like scams. If it sounds to good to be true…
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  I suppose it isn't exactly finance 101, but one of the more fundamental rules of markets is that if you discover an opportunity for arbitrage, you never tell anyone and you exploit it as fast and hard as possible, because once it's publicly discovered, it will quickly be exploited until it's gone. Therefore, no one is going to pitch a legit arbitrage opportunity to you.
  - hinkley 4y ago
    There’s probably something to be said for not buying a Ferrari first chance you get either. Smart thing to do is behave like you won the lottery. Lawyer up, spend your money on semi invisible things like paying down debt. Once you’re successful everyone starts asking questions.
    - the_gipsy 4y ago
      Apart from being financial advice, that has nothing to do.
      - hinkley 4y ago
        > you never tell anyone and you exploit it as fast and hard as possible How do you tell someone you found a get rich quick scheme without telling them you found a get rich quick scheme? Conspicuous consumption. I’m not talking about your neighbors wondering what’s up, I’m talking about your industrial peers connecting the dots and stalking you to figure out what’s up.
eBombzor 4y ago
I lost a 4 figure amount and it was a good lesson thank God it wasn't more. Yes I'm young and very dumb if anyone is wondering
- jjtheblunt 4y ago
  you surely were not dumb and are quite the opposite now
NaughtyShiba 4y ago
It looks like it's pretty much completely inaccurate? https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992 https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992
- Sevii 4y ago
  It accurately shows how much money I lost in Celsius.
  - mdorazio 4y ago
    Me as well.
  - gruez 4y ago
    It depends on your definition of accurate. The site seems to have gotten the data by OCRing pdfs, which caused issues in certain cases. The majority is probably parsed correctly, but even if a few records got parsed incorrect (eg. the "E-06" got truncated) the aggregate amount and/or leaderboards might be totally off.
- hackernudes 4y ago
  Sadly it is accurate. I made it pretty far converting the data to CSV with tabula-java and importing with sqlite. Documents in question are from https://cases.stretto.com/celsius/court-docket/ https://cases.stretto.com/celsius/court-docket/: - #973 "Statement of Financial Affairs" 14532 pages. Contains list of transfers in the months leading up to freeze. This is the document in @bitcoinfool's tweet. It also looks to me that this may have been updated to remove the personal data (280MB to 2MB). Haven't looked into it much. - #974 on page 92 has links to PDFS of "Retail Customers who have Non-Priority Unsecured Claims by First Name". Contains balances after freeze. The 2084 BTC is in the document that contains balances.
nullc 4y ago
Figures on that site are wrong, for example-- a user with a balance like "5.8e-6 BTC" is represented as 5.8 BTC.
RetpolineDrama 4y ago
https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992 https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992 Seems like this site made some major mistakes
whiskeytuesday 4y ago
A good overview for the uninitiated (in my thoroughly uninformed opinion) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwTyvi-oDrlpFqqw3vj9eE0So50Fk3M9b https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwTyvi-oDrlpFqqw3vj9e...
mgraczyk 4y ago
Looks like the site has a bug where it parses numbers incorrectly from the source PDF. The actual numbers are much lower in many cases.
ryanSrich 4y ago
Someone should do this for UST. Market went from $18ish billion to a few hundred million in less than a month.
blendergeek 4y ago
Can some one point me to a good (written, not video) explanation of what Celsius was, claimed to be, and what happened at the end?
manigandham 4y ago
So many people never asked where all this yield was coming from. In the era of record low interest rates, who is paying record high interest rates? It never added up.
hackernudes 4y ago
A standout on that list is #7 https://celsiusnetworth.com/Zaryn-Dentzel.htm https://celsiusnetworth.com/Zaryn-Dentzel.htm From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaryn_Dentzel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaryn_Dentzel "Dentzel was robbed of millions in Bitcoins in 2021" (https://www.newsweek.com/bitcoin-millionaire-zaryn-dentzel-beaten-fortune-stolen-masked-robbery-cryptocurrency-1645550 https://www.newsweek.com/bitcoin-millionaire-zaryn-dentzel-b...) (https://english.elpais.com/usa/2021-11-03/criminal-gang-assaults-founder-of-social-media-network-tuenti-in-his-madrid-home-in-apparent-attempt-to-steal-his-bitcoin-fortune.html https://english.elpais.com/usa/2021-11-03/criminal-gang-assa...) Robbed twice now!
Exuma 4y ago
https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992 https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992
rglover 4y ago
Not your keys, not your cheese. Never, ever, ever forget this.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tilipman 4y ago
https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992 https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992
steve_john 4y ago

163 points by max_ 4y ago

The guy on the top was a BTC maxi from his holdings. Still didn’t get the no keys, no cheese idea. No one can make a better case for why we need nanny states to protect people from their own folly than this list.

janandonly 4y ago
You can not outlaw greed. So this list is a good case for holding your own Keys. Not your keys, not your coins.
Dawnyhf 4y ago
bagels 4y ago
What is a btc maxi?
- max_ 4y ago
  A btc maxi or 'bitcoin maximalist' is a person who believes that Bitcoin is the only legitimate cryptocurrency worth holding.
  - tradertef 4y ago
    correction. only legitimate currency ;)
    - test24234 4y ago
  - MaxGabriel 4y ago
    https://vitalik.ca/general/2022/04/01/maximalist.html https://vitalik.ca/general/2022/04/01/maximalist.html I thought Vitalin Buterin had a really nice steelman of Bitcoin maximalism.
- booleandilemma 4y ago
  Sounds like some kind of feminine product.
  - annoyingnoob 4y ago
    If there were a programmed/finite amount of feminine products in the world they would be worth a lot more than BTC. You can't even use BTC for hygiene.

arbol 4y ago

> The details were made public on October 6 through a court filing that detailed the customers who fell victim. https://criptokio.com/en/altcoins-en/celsius-net-worth/ https://criptokio.com/en/altcoins-en/celsius-net-worth/

71a54xd 4y ago

Important lesson to learn. Not your keys. Not your crypto.

ninepoints 4y ago
This really isn't the lesson. The lesson is that crypto is a scam and grift-ridden space.
- randStr_ 4y ago
  Agree. Crypto is a total bullsh!t, and just waste of energy.

throwaway0asd 4y ago

> Celsius's collapse exemplified what one commentator called a "pervasive problem in the crypto industry, where financial services that claim to be decentralized ... are actually centralized entities, with the power to control the flow of crypto assets." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius_Network https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celsius_Network I would like people to keep this in mind when they somehow confuse Web3 (distribution via crypto ledger) and the term decentralization. Those concepts are not related in any way.

earnesti 4y ago
Though people will use these terms anyway however they want, also to promote their scam(mish) products/services. It doesn't help to know the definitions if people aren't honouring them anyway.
bmitc 4y ago
The real fact of the matter is that decentralization does not work in human society.
- sharms 4y ago
  There are countless examples of decentralization working across human societies. Neighborhoods, cities, counties, states, countries. In America for example forks are individually managed and not shared, and we eat very well without a central utensil management agency.
  - smachiz 4y ago
    It might surprise you to know that in fact kitchen utensils and what they're made out of is regulated in the USA - and I assume most other industrialized countries. https://www.compliancegate.com/plastic-kitchen-products-regulations-united-states/ https://www.compliancegate.com/plastic-kitchen-products-regu... The issue is decentralization != no regulation, and lots of crypto folks seem to think that they should build systems that cannot be regulated and expect that to be compatible with modern society.

mmh0000 4y ago

This is a prime example of why the Fahrenheit Scale is always the correct choice.

1970-01-01 4y ago
Eh, Kelvin is better.
- basementcat 4y ago
  Kelvin is just Celsius with an offset. Rankine FTW. Edit: Background research for this snarky remark led me to this table. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_scales_of_temperature#Comparison_of_temperature_scales https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_of_scales_of_temp...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- hinkley 4y ago
  A little OCD corner of my brain is very disappointed that there is no scale where absolute zero and the boiling and freezing point of water are all whole numbers. Or maybe that just means the universe is built in base 15 numbers.
  - basementcat 4y ago
  - neaden 4y ago
    I'm sure you could find some pressure where that is true for Kelvin.
    - hinkley 4y ago
      Mad scientist: And that's why I siphoned off 10% of the earth's atmosphere in order to make a temperature scale where water still boils at 100°

tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago

How do they have people's legal names?

admn2 4y ago
I think it became public in one of the court filings
adolph 4y ago
It is pretty straightforward to add it into your person constructor: Person.prototype.legalName = function () { return this.fullName.toUpperCase(); }
- test24234 4y ago
  javascript :(
  - adolph 4y ago
    Don't hate the player, hate the game: Atwood's Law: any application that can be written in JavaScript, will eventually be written in JavaScript. https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-principle-of-least-power/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-principle-of-least-power/

ar_lan 4y ago

So - do we just report this as cap gains loss? How does this work in the States? As far as I can tell, my investment in this went to $0. Edit: Apparently in the US, any capital loss due to loss or theft is not considered taxable capital loss, so I guess I'm just SOL. I'm glad I had diversified and my Celsius losses were only 25% of my crypto (of which, at the time, was only 3% of my total investments overall). I've completely exited crypto since this debacle and sticking with boring VTSAX and VTIAX entirely.

xeromal 4y ago
I got burned during the Mt Gox era and I feel like a crazy person for asking all my friends to get out of crypto. I've been a boring ETF guy since.
- kirbypineapple 4y ago
  The funny thing is that when the trustee pays out the remaining BTC from Mt. Gox back to creditors, you're going to have some massive gains.
  - xeromal 4y ago
    I completely forgot about that and just read that they have 192,000 bitcoins in the trustee. Wow I occasionally kick myself for buying weed using bitcoin like it's intended purpose in those days. I had quite a bit. lol.
    - bbarn 4y ago
      I got a really sweet carbon fiber bicycle from the coins I mined. Figured there was no way they'd ever go higher than 20$ and it was basically free money. Looking back, sure, I could have retired on that sum if I'd held it, but at the time, I had no reasonable expectation that it would be anything but a fad. Won a few races on that bike, and met my wife on the race team. Net win.
      - 4y ago

BigElephant 4y ago

Why put people's names?

xeromal 4y ago
It's now public information from a court filing.
- lxgr 4y ago
  As a European, the extent of what is deemed acceptable in the US to publish as part of the "public record" is baffling. Is this because previously analog processes (i.e. stuff that you could legally look up in a court's microfilm document archive in person and make photocopies of etc.) have been put on the internet indiscriminately? Or is this really generally seen as a desirable property of the legal system?
  - xeromal 4y ago
    It's just one of those systems that has both good and bad. We can't seem to pull off a grey area decision where certain info is public and some is redacted for privacy so instead of making everything private, we go nuclear and make everything public. I guess it's better than nothing. lol. It also very much depends on the state which everyone seems to forget. There are 50 different states that have different opinions of what is public information. There's a joke that Florida Man is the most devious person around but the reality is that Florida has more information made public which makes it appear that bad stuff is happening all the time there.
  - arcbyte 4y ago
    Well as a US citizen we are very skeptical of government power. Information is power. Anything the government knows that it doesn't tell its citizens has the potential for abuse of power. So on some level we like things to be as public as possible. It goes back to the idea of open courts, open legislative sessions, etc where any citizen can attend and see everything that happened except for narrow provisions for controversially protected things likes military secrets. We disagree on how much should be public and im certainly on the end of rhe spectrum that says make everything public (except for military secrets). But there are things that courts regularly make secret like names of minors, health information, social security numbers, etc.

5350-uiop-1130 4y ago

so glad i didn't use this, was very close but then read, or should i say saw, some things about a certain executive that put me right off.

quickthrowman 4y ago
The astronomical yield didn’t tip you off?? The yield they were paying implied excessive risk taking.

zeroclip 4y ago

Three clear and obvious outcomes of this unwinding: 1. The crypto mantra "not your keys, not your coins" rings true. 2. Entrusting your personal financial data with a private company is sure to end in disaster, either by hack or court order. Privacy should be a basic and legally protected feature of blockchains. 3. Centralized Finance or CeFi is mostly a sham and deserves to be heavily regulated. Not to be confused with on-chain and transparent Decentralized Finance or DeFi platforms like Aave that have behaved predictably through this downturn, and have never required KYC.

no_butterscotch 4y ago
> 1. The crypto mantra "not your keys, not your coins" rings true. I confess that I don't follow this. I only have assets on Coinbase and generally assume they're reliable enough (from a technical/security stand-point and legal) that I don't bother jumping through hoops to do a wallet on my own device or hardware wallet. Is it stupid? Maybe, but I think I'd be more likely to screw up somehow with the other approaches.
- simonmales 4y ago
  Maybe they are. But in the advent of a hack. Even then they might have there arses covered with insurance and what not. But who can tell how long until you get your coins in such a situation.
- scrumbledober 4y ago
  I have a similar approach, and with evidence to back it up. All my coinbase coins are still in coinbase. The coins in the wallet on my old desktop that I have somehow misplaced the tower for several years ago on the other hand...
- kortilla 4y ago
  What you need to be concerned about is if coinbase fails for totally normal business reasons and they halt all transactions, what rights do you have? With real banks, there are pretty clear pecking orders for creditors vs depositors and depositors have FDIC to cover at least some in the worst disasters. Would you have higher priority in getting your own coins back over senior debt holders? “Not your keys, not your coins” is exactly what it sounds like. You really have no say at all in how the above scenario plays out. There have been a hundred+ years of laws to figure out how to give rights to cash, bonds, equities to people who have them held by an institution. That hasn’t happened with crypto.

loceng 4y ago

What I'd love to know is how much they put in, when their buys were, so we can see how much "profit" they would of otherwise had if they had sold. It'd be interesting to see what their role, if any, in promoting all of these various crypto-"currencies."

baobabKoodaa 4y ago

This is mean. I understand this is public information, but it's still mean to do this.

m4jor 4y ago

Thankfully only $100 or so.

koolba 4y ago

That’s pretty rough, first you get goxed, then you get doxed. Next step will be $87B worth of new IRS agents working backwards through chain data to find the source of these funds.

bArray 4y ago

How did these people lose so much? I'm checking CEL.X and it's gone from about $6 to $1 in about a year.

greenthrow 4y ago
Because Celsius collapsed and froze customer accounts. So people lost 100% of what they had in there.
NaughtyShiba 4y ago
Because they didn't -> https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992 https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992

mmmwww 4y ago

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1906156/cryptomonnaies-celsius-network-caisse-depot-placement-quebec-investissement https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1906156/cryptomonnaies-... This canadian fund lost 200$ M dollars.

oldgradstudent 4y ago
I wish they'd publish their due diligence report for this investment. Could be highly entertaining reading.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
  “Everyone else was making lots of money and it seemed like a good idea”
  - pepy 4y ago
    DD: "Fortune favors the brave"

magnusss 4y ago

Celsius seemed to be a classic Ponzi scheme wrapped in a cloak of crypto. The founder was a smooth-talking pitch man who claimed to have “discovered” a risk-free way to earn outsized returns by arbitraging some flaw in the centralized finance system. Madoff’s scheme was similar, but with capital markets rather than crypto. What these schemes have in common is that, once the market takes a dip, it becomes impossible to cover redemptions and the whole thing collapses. I don’t see the collapse of Celsius so much as a cautionary tale against crypto (“not your keys…”), so much as a lesson against investing in Ponzi-like scams. If it sounds to good to be true…

hotpotamus 4y ago
I suppose it isn't exactly finance 101, but one of the more fundamental rules of markets is that if you discover an opportunity for arbitrage, you never tell anyone and you exploit it as fast and hard as possible, because once it's publicly discovered, it will quickly be exploited until it's gone. Therefore, no one is going to pitch a legit arbitrage opportunity to you.
- hinkley 4y ago
  There’s probably something to be said for not buying a Ferrari first chance you get either. Smart thing to do is behave like you won the lottery. Lawyer up, spend your money on semi invisible things like paying down debt. Once you’re successful everyone starts asking questions.
  - the_gipsy 4y ago
    Apart from being financial advice, that has nothing to do.
    - hinkley 4y ago
      > you never tell anyone and you exploit it as fast and hard as possible How do you tell someone you found a get rich quick scheme without telling them you found a get rich quick scheme? Conspicuous consumption. I’m not talking about your neighbors wondering what’s up, I’m talking about your industrial peers connecting the dots and stalking you to figure out what’s up.

eBombzor 4y ago

I lost a 4 figure amount and it was a good lesson thank God it wasn't more. Yes I'm young and very dumb if anyone is wondering

jjtheblunt 4y ago
you surely were not dumb and are quite the opposite now

NaughtyShiba 4y ago

It looks like it's pretty much completely inaccurate? https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992 https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992

Sevii 4y ago
It accurately shows how much money I lost in Celsius.
- mdorazio 4y ago
  Me as well.
- gruez 4y ago
  It depends on your definition of accurate. The site seems to have gotten the data by OCRing pdfs, which caused issues in certain cases. The majority is probably parsed correctly, but even if a few records got parsed incorrect (eg. the "E-06" got truncated) the aggregate amount and/or leaderboards might be totally off.
hackernudes 4y ago
Sadly it is accurate. I made it pretty far converting the data to CSV with tabula-java and importing with sqlite. Documents in question are from https://cases.stretto.com/celsius/court-docket/ https://cases.stretto.com/celsius/court-docket/: - #973 "Statement of Financial Affairs" 14532 pages. Contains list of transfers in the months leading up to freeze. This is the document in @bitcoinfool's tweet. It also looks to me that this may have been updated to remove the personal data (280MB to 2MB). Haven't looked into it much. - #974 on page 92 has links to PDFS of "Retail Customers who have Non-Priority Unsecured Claims by First Name". Contains balances after freeze. The 2084 BTC is in the document that contains balances.

nullc 4y ago

Figures on that site are wrong, for example-- a user with a balance like "5.8e-6 BTC" is represented as 5.8 BTC.

RetpolineDrama 4y ago

https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992 https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992 Seems like this site made some major mistakes

whiskeytuesday 4y ago

A good overview for the uninitiated (in my thoroughly uninformed opinion) https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwTyvi-oDrlpFqqw3vj9eE0So50Fk3M9b https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwTyvi-oDrlpFqqw3vj9e...

mgraczyk 4y ago

Looks like the site has a bug where it parses numbers incorrectly from the source PDF. The actual numbers are much lower in many cases.

ryanSrich 4y ago

Someone should do this for UST. Market went from $18ish billion to a few hundred million in less than a month.

blendergeek 4y ago

Can some one point me to a good (written, not video) explanation of what Celsius was, claimed to be, and what happened at the end?

manigandham 4y ago

So many people never asked where all this yield was coming from. In the era of record low interest rates, who is paying record high interest rates? It never added up.

hackernudes 4y ago

A standout on that list is #7 https://celsiusnetworth.com/Zaryn-Dentzel.htm https://celsiusnetworth.com/Zaryn-Dentzel.htm From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaryn_Dentzel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaryn_Dentzel "Dentzel was robbed of millions in Bitcoins in 2021" (https://www.newsweek.com/bitcoin-millionaire-zaryn-dentzel-beaten-fortune-stolen-masked-robbery-cryptocurrency-1645550 https://www.newsweek.com/bitcoin-millionaire-zaryn-dentzel-b...) (https://english.elpais.com/usa/2021-11-03/criminal-gang-assaults-founder-of-social-media-network-tuenti-in-his-madrid-home-in-apparent-attempt-to-steal-his-bitcoin-fortune.html https://english.elpais.com/usa/2021-11-03/criminal-gang-assa...) Robbed twice now!

Exuma 4y ago

https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992 https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992

rglover 4y ago

Not your keys, not your cheese. Never, ever, ever forget this.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tilipman 4y ago

https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992 https://twitter.com/bitcoinfool/status/1579479999333076992

steve_john 4y ago