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European in general. My wife works for a biotech company in Austria which was recently aquired by an american company and it's so funny to hear about their effo

European in general. My wife works for a biotech company in Austria which was recently aquired by an american company and it's so funny to hear about their efforts to adapt to EU law and culture. Most of their training material is still unchanged from their US branch so there are things they list as benefits for all employees like - 3 Weeks paid vacation (we get 5 by law) - Health insurance (you know the drill) - 3 weeks parental leave (we get 1 year for 80% pay, first 6 months full pay, then 5 years protection against dismissal) - 5 days paid care leave for when your kid is sick (we get 12) So their benefits which makes them think make them attactive are all below basic EU law that even store clerks get

phaer 4y ago
All true, but it might be worth mentioning that most of those benefits are still Austrian law, not European law. So while they generally better than the US, other EU states might lack some of those law.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  Many countries go further, but the EU does require a minimum. - 4 weeks paid holiday - 4 months unpaid parental leave, 14 weeks paid for the mother https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law is the best overview I can find.
  - sebazzz 4y ago
    I got indeed 20 by law and 14 on top of that for a total of 34, but the latter is the exception. In IT 26-28 days are common.
  - warent 4y ago
    For what it's worth I'm pretty sure there are systems in place in these countries which actually make it possible. right? Like, there are insurances and government assistance programs that businesses use to pay for things like parental leave. US businesses get no such help. So what is often attributed to US business greed is actually political greed, while businesses are just casualties.
    - lock-the-spock 4y ago
      Your statement does not make much sense. As you correctly say, there are obligatory schemes to pay into in Europe. The companies could easily keep the same amounts at hand and pay them out at the same conditions - no difference whatsoever except corporate greed/lack of obligation.
    - alkonaut 4y ago
      Yes at least when I’m sick or on parental leave it’s not the company paying the parental leave money. The law makes it a requirement for my employer to let me take my parental leave, i.e they can’t refuse or not have my job there when I return. So while that’s a cost to them, of course they don’t pay me my 80% salary when I’m gone 6-12 months. Tax money does. My employer can use my salary money to pay for my replacement.
      - enedil 4y ago
        When I'm on sick leave in Poland, first two weeks are covered by the employer (80%) and only after that it's covered by tax money.
        piaste 4y ago
        Italy is either two or three days, I can't remember which. The reason, I believe, is that there are random checks by the health service to ensure people on sick leave are actually sick. But if you only take a day off due to a headache, by the time it gets registered and checked you could have already got better - so your claim is hard to verify.* A dishonest employer could easily defraud the system by claiming a lot of individual, unverifiable "sick days" and getting the state to pay for a nice chunk of his payroll expenses. By contrast, an employer gets alerted sooner of an absence and is in a much better position to guess whether an employee claiming fake sicknesses. In case of suspicion they're legally allowed (at a small fee) to have a physician check on their employee from day 1. * now that I think about it, with everybody having a camera phone nowadays, this might eventually be solved - a video call might not be enough for a diagnosis, but it can probably tell "yep you're sick" with a reasonable degree of confidence?
  - pastage 4y ago
    Must suck being a father and not being able to take leave with your kids. We get 10 days when the baby is born. Plus lots of days until the child is X years, I think 11 years.
    - brnt 4y ago
      To be fair, it used to be two days (!) up until 5 years ago in the Netherlands. We're still the worst place for young parents and fathers in particular in western Europe.
  - enedil 4y ago
    I'm not sure how it's counted, but in Poland we initially get 20 days and 26 after you work several years. Maybe the 4 weeks include national holidays, which don't count into the limit I mentioned.
    - fsw 4y ago
      20 days are 4 weeks if you work 5 days per week.
- em-bee 4y ago
  that's funny considering how someone else here is arguing that labor protection in austria is worse than other european countries.
- tpm 4y ago
  Well there are certainly differences. How about 3 years parental leave in Slovakia.
phpisthebest 4y ago
>>(we get 1 year for 80% pay, first 6 months full pay, then 5 years protection against dismissal) That is just crazy.... I would hate to be a chidless person in your country, I can not image the extra amount of work that get places on people that do not have children... As someone that will never have a child I like the fact that the US does not force this kind of parental leave on employers, I know that will be very unpopular hot take
- bbbobbb 4y ago
  sorry what extra work? you know the company is able to hire more people right?
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    You know companies have budgets right? you can not just "hire more people" and remain profitable, no profit no company. Companies are not charities created to employ people. So sure if only 1 person is off on leave most likely another person could be hired But 5 years of protected leave..... What percentage of the work force is going to be out on that? Also since it is very hard to terminate someone in the EU, what happens to the employees that are "filling" the positions of those people out on 5 years of leave? can they be terminate or do you have to keep them employed even after the original employee returns? If you can be terminated would you take a job knowing the second the parent returns you will be terminated Parental leave should be measured in weeks, not years. If you want to be a stay at home parent for years, leave the work force and then return...,.
    - hnaccount_rng 4y ago
      You are misunderstanding what the 5 years is: it’s a protection against being fired. You know as retaliation against actually having priorities that trump your employers emergency-through-incompetence-while-planning. The actual leave time is typically around a year. Which is roughly where you can give children over without them crying. But yeah the workload of that parent will have to be picked up by additional staff
    - 4y ago
nalaz 4y ago
Now do salary and taxes
testfoobar 4y ago
In contrast, the extra capital buffer required to maintain such benefits directly reduces the amount of risk a startup business can take. Starting a risky venture in the EU vs the US seems like starting with an immediate financial drag. Stability for workers is achieved in part by forcing companies to lower the risk they can take.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  If that risk comes at the expense of the workers, then yes. Tbh, it’s just a cost of doing business in the Netherlands.

phaer 4y ago

All true, but it might be worth mentioning that most of those benefits are still Austrian law, not European law. So while they generally better than the US, other EU states might lack some of those law.

Symbiote 4y ago
Many countries go further, but the EU does require a minimum. - 4 weeks paid holiday - 4 months unpaid parental leave, 14 weeks paid for the mother https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_labour_law is the best overview I can find.
- sebazzz 4y ago
  I got indeed 20 by law and 14 on top of that for a total of 34, but the latter is the exception. In IT 26-28 days are common.
- warent 4y ago
  For what it's worth I'm pretty sure there are systems in place in these countries which actually make it possible. right? Like, there are insurances and government assistance programs that businesses use to pay for things like parental leave. US businesses get no such help. So what is often attributed to US business greed is actually political greed, while businesses are just casualties.
  - lock-the-spock 4y ago
    Your statement does not make much sense. As you correctly say, there are obligatory schemes to pay into in Europe. The companies could easily keep the same amounts at hand and pay them out at the same conditions - no difference whatsoever except corporate greed/lack of obligation.
  - alkonaut 4y ago
    Yes at least when I’m sick or on parental leave it’s not the company paying the parental leave money. The law makes it a requirement for my employer to let me take my parental leave, i.e they can’t refuse or not have my job there when I return. So while that’s a cost to them, of course they don’t pay me my 80% salary when I’m gone 6-12 months. Tax money does. My employer can use my salary money to pay for my replacement.
    - enedil 4y ago
      When I'm on sick leave in Poland, first two weeks are covered by the employer (80%) and only after that it's covered by tax money.
      - piaste 4y ago
        Italy is either two or three days, I can't remember which. The reason, I believe, is that there are random checks by the health service to ensure people on sick leave are actually sick. But if you only take a day off due to a headache, by the time it gets registered and checked you could have already got better - so your claim is hard to verify.* A dishonest employer could easily defraud the system by claiming a lot of individual, unverifiable "sick days" and getting the state to pay for a nice chunk of his payroll expenses. By contrast, an employer gets alerted sooner of an absence and is in a much better position to guess whether an employee claiming fake sicknesses. In case of suspicion they're legally allowed (at a small fee) to have a physician check on their employee from day 1. * now that I think about it, with everybody having a camera phone nowadays, this might eventually be solved - a video call might not be enough for a diagnosis, but it can probably tell "yep you're sick" with a reasonable degree of confidence?
- pastage 4y ago
  Must suck being a father and not being able to take leave with your kids. We get 10 days when the baby is born. Plus lots of days until the child is X years, I think 11 years.
  - brnt 4y ago
    To be fair, it used to be two days (!) up until 5 years ago in the Netherlands. We're still the worst place for young parents and fathers in particular in western Europe.
- enedil 4y ago
  I'm not sure how it's counted, but in Poland we initially get 20 days and 26 after you work several years. Maybe the 4 weeks include national holidays, which don't count into the limit I mentioned.
  - fsw 4y ago
    20 days are 4 weeks if you work 5 days per week.
em-bee 4y ago
that's funny considering how someone else here is arguing that labor protection in austria is worse than other european countries.
tpm 4y ago
Well there are certainly differences. How about 3 years parental leave in Slovakia.

phpisthebest 4y ago

>>(we get 1 year for 80% pay, first 6 months full pay, then 5 years protection against dismissal) That is just crazy.... I would hate to be a chidless person in your country, I can not image the extra amount of work that get places on people that do not have children... As someone that will never have a child I like the fact that the US does not force this kind of parental leave on employers, I know that will be very unpopular hot take

bbbobbb 4y ago
sorry what extra work? you know the company is able to hire more people right?
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  You know companies have budgets right? you can not just "hire more people" and remain profitable, no profit no company. Companies are not charities created to employ people. So sure if only 1 person is off on leave most likely another person could be hired But 5 years of protected leave..... What percentage of the work force is going to be out on that? Also since it is very hard to terminate someone in the EU, what happens to the employees that are "filling" the positions of those people out on 5 years of leave? can they be terminate or do you have to keep them employed even after the original employee returns? If you can be terminated would you take a job knowing the second the parent returns you will be terminated Parental leave should be measured in weeks, not years. If you want to be a stay at home parent for years, leave the work force and then return...,.
  - hnaccount_rng 4y ago
    You are misunderstanding what the 5 years is: it’s a protection against being fired. You know as retaliation against actually having priorities that trump your employers emergency-through-incompetence-while-planning. The actual leave time is typically around a year. Which is roughly where you can give children over without them crying. But yeah the workload of that parent will have to be picked up by additional staff
  - 4y ago

nalaz 4y ago

Now do salary and taxes

testfoobar 4y ago

In contrast, the extra capital buffer required to maintain such benefits directly reduces the amount of risk a startup business can take. Starting a risky venture in the EU vs the US seems like starting with an immediate financial drag. Stability for workers is achieved in part by forcing companies to lower the risk they can take.

Aeolun 4y ago
If that risk comes at the expense of the workers, then yes. Tbh, it’s just a cost of doing business in the Netherlands.