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Post-pandemic, the battle between Uber and Lyft is looking more one-sided
- guywithahat 4y agohttps://archive.ph/4vM9v https://archive.ph/4vM9v
- shagie 4y agogift link - https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-lyft-is-eating-ubers-dust-11664597545?st=0g41t7u830hr6gf&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-lyft-is-eating-ubers-dust-1...
- syndacks 4y agoWhat is a “gift link”?
- shagie 4y agohttps://open.nytimes.com/a-new-way-to-share-new-york-times-stories-3e66e8d7e620 https://open.nytimes.com/a-new-way-to-share-new-york-times-s... Linking to the site directly, likely with a bit of tracking information related to me, but allowing non-subscribers to access it without hitting the paywall. It also gives the actual experience. For example - from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32849962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32849962 Compare: https://archive.ph/OJYqz https://archive.ph/OJYqz and https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/14/climate/san-francisco-fog.html?unlocked_article_code=hEibO2En_XEYmK7XOTQHZVYc4t17nPAmzyUcVpfc34L0dvQ3XVNOru4XQm9FM5doav1-BQOl4AtV2dqiwm-boNQEJQeneDh955xEFmpRgV5vJkRFQwbJ0Je_HI5alm7KQTmVVHUQUbZOOBXJ7Q3ppMR5QAg5-d_aTeJe9V02ophduKr4Wf0NnVFvW0STyn1DepZp7kAyGFExIfv_EjWepYPp0lDD1dGR3_UA88KjeaTpo5zPBxFUbgrSdagL1QqHIIAHHWYk5zJHm_bctPJZIgwXPas0YXoQf6TMHk9UOHLls-jYovUbkgxiDPZ4oKC84C1nhrFLw5oQTNBV18ZEK6cP_5THk5h7S3jK&smid=share-url https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/09/14/climate/san-f...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- skrowl 4y ago
- ProAm 4y agoIt's hard to over look the horrendous work place culture and history of Uber. Seems like newer generations are okay with it.
- TylerE 4y agoDoesn’t seem to match the facts? FTA: “Furthermore, the survey showed Lyft has a significantly higher percentage of dissatisfied drivers.”
- quantified 4y agoI read the comment as referring to Uber's staff. But being crappy to one doesn't mean your competition isn't crappier.
- telotortium 4y agoIs there any proof that Lyft's work culture is better even for engineers? It's not clear that drivers prefer it.
- Consultant32452 4y agoHere's my anecdata. Every Uber/Lyft I've taken is clearly servicing both. Indicators range from multiple phones, one with each app running and multiple logos/stickers on the cars. I almost always ask the driver which they prefer. The consistent answer is they prefer working with Lyft better but Uber more consistently has rides for them to pick up. It's unclear whether they get paid better with Lyft or are otherwise treated better, but that is what they say every time.
- ev1 4y agoI usually ask the same (and whether they prefer tip in cash etc); I have not seen a single person say they would rather drive for uber. It's been nearly 100% toward lyft preference. I ride daily.
- SilverBirch 4y agoDo we really need a graph of a tech stock that goes "'20 Boom, '22 bust". Here's the thing - in this article about how Uber is beating Lyft, you could have shown a chart of Uber's stock price, and no one would've noticed the difference. Even the central thesis of the article is flawed. Both of these companies are starting to trade like they're big taxi companies. Which they are. The only advantage that Uber has is they do food delivery (that's going to go great during a recession) and scooters. Now, I don't know how much Uber makes on scooters, so shall we look at a competitor to see how well that industry is doing? Bird Scooter spac'd at 2.3Bn. How's that going? Oh well, you know, they're being delisted by NYSE because they're a penny stock.
- robertlagrant 4y agoUber also has Uber Health.
- SoftTalker 4y agoWTF is that? Non-emergency ambulance?
- kaesar14 4y agoIt seems like a fundamental issue is that there's no really no product differentiation - a Lyft's end result is the same as Uber (getting to your destination) so the only path to winning is having the money to outspend your opponent. Now that Uber's cut out the bullshit with self-driving and endless expansion, and started to focus on winning in the US, I see a tough road ahead for Lyft.
- treis 4y agoIt's a fair point, but Uber still does a lot of bullshit. Freight, Eats, Packages, Scooters, Public transport SaaS stuff, and probably others I don't know about. Plus, they're doing that stuff internationally. Uber might start to focus on winning the US but can they against a leaner, meaner, and more focused Lyft? It's also the classic bundled vs individual components debate. Uber is bundled and Lyft is a component. Usually there's room in the market for both.
- actionablefiber 4y agoLyft's subsidiary Motivate also operates a decent number of bikeshare systems. I have no idea if it's a profitable venture for them - supposedly they're the "operating partner" which I guess means the actual owners pay them a fee to handle all the logistics while the owners themselves are responsible for the profit and loss of the system overall. Can anyone provide more detail here?
- deepsun 4y agoBut how to get the money when VC money ended? The only way I see is to be more efficient on spending. Hint: taxi companies don't need 10k+ software engineers. So their market is a race to the bottom. Which is a indicator of an effective market. Only non-effective markets have large profit margins.
- uup 4y agoBoth Uber and Lyft are public companies, so they can raise money on the stock market, selling bonds, convertible notes, etc.
- time_to_smile 4y agoCool, let me know when either of them has a positive earnings per share. I'm still a bit surprised that we don't see more investor pressure for many of these companies to demonstrate that they actually can turn a profit. I get it, when Uber was just in SF, the argument was "don't worry about profit, just grow until you eat the entire industry... then you turn on the profit switch". But here we are, Uber has IPO'd, is in every city in the US and many countries around the world, and has only one major competitor which the WSJ claims is "eating their dust". When do you flip that profit switch if not now? The most obvious reason I can think for not flipping the switch is there is none. Still very curious when, if ever, the market will care.
- makestuff 4y agoGrab app works well enough for big cities for calling a yellow cab. Also several big cities have flat rates from the airport into the city center. Ex: JFK -> NYC is $75 flat rate. I rarely see an uber cheaper than that. Also the taxis are usually waiting so you don't have to track down a random car. All of that to say I don't think there is a profit switch. Uber doesn't really give any benefits over a taxi in large metros anymore which I assume is where most of their profit comes from.
- jen20 4y ago52 from JFK to Manhattan. Much better value than an Uber on average - no vehicle moves as fast as an NYC cab on that route.
- mumblemumble 4y agoI really don't think there is one. They have no competitive moat, and they know it. That's why we've seen so many antics around branching out into parallel and tangential business models over the past several years. If they knew how to make their core taxi service profitable, then I can't really see why they didn't just do that instead of faffing around with all these side hustles.
- treis 4y agoThey're still building back from Covid. Lyft had 3.6 billion revenue in 2019. That dipped to 2.4 in 2020, and 3.1 in 2021. They only got back to their 2019 revenue in Q1 or Q2 of 2022.
- borbulon 4y agoRemind me again how Uber's doing? Still losing lots of money?
- missedthecue 4y agoThey're about as profitable as Lyft.
- linuxftw 4y ago
- oofbey 4y agoWith no real repercussions.
- renewiltord 4y agoOn Reddit, drivers are claiming that Uber pays surge pricing to drivers but Lyft pays a fixed hours plus mileage and takes the surge increase for itself. Is this true?
- jackson1442 4y agoSounds about right from the chats I've had with Lyft drivers, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a per-ride bonus somewhat like Doordash when they need drivers.
- oneoff786 4y agoSounds unlikely. That wouldn’t make any sense. The surge is there because demand exceeds supply.
- throwaway821909 4y agoThis supply/demand equation doesn't necessarily have to involve incentivising increased supply, maybe the increase in capacity from offering the difference to drivers isn't worth it compared to just profiting from the scarcity.
- oneoff786 4y agoIt does if you’re competing for labor and the other guy is paying high wages during surges. I just don’t see how that could work
- renewiltord 4y agoIs it possible that the lead time for surge reaction is too high to actually react to sufficient surges and it's all demand management?
- oneoff786 4y agoI think no but it doesn’t matter. If Uber is paying much higher wages for the same labor and you can switch over at the press of a button, why would anyone drive for Lyft during a surge?
- Izkata 4y agoWhy I switched from Uber to Lyft within a week of installing it: After having already used my card for a ride, Uber insisted on verification (using the phone's camera to take a picture to show you actually have the physical card), but it uses an auto-shutter and didn't recognize my card, so it wouldn't let me verify. Luckily I remembered Lyft existed or I would have been stranded that night. Installed and set up in less time than I had already wasted trying to get Uber to verify.
- 43920 4y agoI have the opposite problem: after signing up for Lyft, it made me "verify my payment method" by adding a second payment method with the same address. My second payment method had the same problem, and the only option left was to directly connect a bank account, which I didn't want to do. Uber took my credit card without a problem. ...anyway, fraud detection is largely anecdotal.
- reaperducer 4y agoI hope that Lyft stays around, because I can't use Uber for a similar reason as you. Uber insists on sending me an SMS verification code. But the code never arrives. I have no problem with any other app, just Uber. But I can't get anyone at Uber to look at the problem because I'm an human being (read: "edge case") and I don't scale.
- arsome 4y agoDo you use a VOIP number by any chance?
- reaperducer 4y agoNope. Just the same regular cell phone number I've had since 1997.
- erik_seaberg 4y agoI had this problem with a few other services on Google Fi, because they use number pools that were originally assigned to Google Voice.
- rblatz 4y agoI started using Lyft because every time I book an Uber it would end up taking 3x as long to get picked up vs the estimate shown, typically 15+ minutes. Additionally, it was always "completing a trip nearby". Lyft would offer to let me pay a few bucks extra to get a ride in 3 minutes, for the same price or lower.
- standardUser 4y agoI've experienced the opposite in NYC where Lyft often never even finds me a car and Uber is usually nearly-instant. But on the West Coast (recent trips to SF and Seattle) the two seem comparable.
- channel_t 4y agoI live on the west coast and generally try to use Lyft first when I need a cab because they seem to be the marginally more ethical company, but I still often find that I can get a car from Uber faster and more affordably than Lyft. I've also found the UX of the Uber app to be a little more mature than that of Lyft. Like I can effortlessly send a cab to someone else with Uber while with Lyft it's awkward.
- the_only_law 4y ago> but I still often find that I can get a car from Uber faster and more affordably than Lyft. Lyft surge prices are much higher IME. At a particularly bad time, a surge Uber trip downtown where I live might be $25, Lyft will charge me $60 for the same ride. I wonder how much of that the driver sees.
- metadat 4y agoI've had the opposite experience - It was 1:45am At SJC, and Uber surge pricing for the ride home from the airport was $210.00 (this exceeded the cost of the airfare to fly 3,000 miles). I was grateful to take a Lyft home for $28.00.
- 0xbadcafebee 4y ago"Lyft has since ditched the facial hair, but it hasn’t matured much geographically. It remains a North American business predominantly focused on the U.S. market. And while Uber has enjoyed the Covid-precipitated boom in food delivery over the past few years, Lyft remains largely a rideshare company." "But Lyft’s total revenue is forecast by analysts to remain less than a third of Uber’s global ride-hailing business alone this year" "Not surprisingly, Uber is racing to broaden its horizons, adding taxi and other travel bookings as well as alcohol and grocery delivery. For now, Lyft is still chugging along the same beaten path." Lyft is a purely rideshare company in only the US market. Uber is doing all kinds of different shit, globally. Yet the article makes it seem strange that Lyft is "eating Uber's dust", when they are barely comparable.
- twelve40 4y agowell, they do compete head-on in US and a bigger company with more worldwide revenue could displace the other one, so from that angle the comparison seems relevant.
- ergocoder 4y agoLyft turned me off in the beginning. Pink mustache. Fist bump. Small talk. Some sort of hip cult. What the heck... I just wanted to go from A to B. I'm sure I'm not alone. But I've switched to Lyft though mainly because a lot of friends work there.
- kaycebasques 4y agoMy anecdotal experience last week is that Lyft's experience has fallen off a cliff. Even in SF it often takes 10 minutes to get a ride (not including the time for the driver to pick me up). Sometimes Lyft just leaves me hanging and can't find me any rides whatsoever. I'm gradually switching to Uber simply out of lack of confidence that Lyft will get me a ride in the timeframes I've been conditioned to expect based on past experience.
- mwattsun 4y agoAs a former driver, I concur that Lyft is better than Uber for a couple of reasons: customer service and serving the needs of the poor. I was able to actually get a human at Lyft to talk to several times to resolve issues in favor of the customer. The bill was corrected on the spot. I was never able to get a human at Uber for any reason at any time. For the poor, I did a lot of runs taking older low income patients to dialysis clinics. Several rides were set up before hand where I took mentally disabled people to clinics (I was instructed not to drop them off in between home and the clinic if they requested.) Admittedly, Lyft is not a charity, so they're probably making good government money, but I like that Lyft made the effort to help the less fortunate and gave me the opportunity to feel like I was doing something that mattered.
- sokoloff 4y agoIn my experience (Boston metro), if I want to save a little money at the risk of a long delay or not getting a ride, I’ll use Lyft. If I want to actually get the ride, especially from the airport, Uber is way more reliable.
- giraffe_lady 4y agoOK but that doesn't have anything to do with either of the points they were making? It's a completely separate thing? I've never had an at all reasonable experience using any rideshare for an airport pickup, fwiw. End up on the phone with the driver trying to explain what terminal I'm at, how to identify the pickup zone, the entire concept of an airport really. When there's a taxi stand with a waiting professional driver right there it just does not make sense.
- xapata 4y agoDepending on the airport, I've found Lyft and Uber drivers to be more professional than the taxi drivers. In Boston, the taxi drivers would angrily curse at me for my destination and then drive recklessly, hoping to get back to the airport before the flight finished disembarking.
- 4y ago
- Lendal 4y agoAny way to read this using my Apple News+ subscription? They have wsj.com, but I can't find this story in there.
- bachmeier 4y agoI tried Lyft in San Antonio. App kept saying a driver was on the way, but they'd mysteriously never show up. Tried it again in Philadelphia. Same thing - was repeatedly left hanging. I don't know if Lyft actually had drivers on the way, but even if they did, I've used Uber since and never had a problem.
- curiousDog 4y agoLyft seems like a great candidate for Tesla to acquire and eventually replace with their autonomous fleet. But Elon is busy winning the culture wars atm.
- nathanaldensr 4y agoWhat autonomous fleet? Such a thing does not exist, nor will it in the foreseeable future.
- efficax 4y agoThere's little reason currently to think that fully autonomous vehicles are just around the corner, and even less reason to think that Tesla will be the company that gets there first, given the lack of LiDAR on Teslas. Musk's twitter gambit is focusing on the real engine of his wealth, public relations.
- curiousDog 4y agoIndeed, meant to say he should acquire this if he's at all serious about the autonomous/robo taxi thing becoming a reality but we all know it's hot-air for the foreseeable future. But kind of the premise based on which these companies thought their unit economics would eventually work out.
- hey2022 4y agoWhy would they spend billions on buying a taxi app? If they had an autonomous fleet (which they obviously won’t for a very long time), they could just build an app for that? That seems like a much smaller problem to solve than autonomous driving.
- sytse 4y agoI'm surprised that article doesn't discuss Uber Eats which brings in more revenue that the taxi part (called Mobility by Uber, both are 13b in the quarter that ended June 30, 2022 https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-details/2022/Uber-Announces-Results-for-Second-Quarter-2022/default.aspx https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-det... ). Lyft doesn't have this revenue.
- strix_varius 4y agoFrom the article: > And while Uber has enjoyed the Covid-precipitated boom in food delivery over the past few years, Lyft remains largely a rideshare company.
- sytse 4y agoOops, thanks.
- petarb 4y agoUber is way more expensive and less reliable in the SF Bay Area for me
- TechnicolorByte 4y agoExact opposite ime in SFBA. Lyft’s estimated pickup times are always off for me and price can be comparable to sometime higher than Uber.
- oofbey 4y agoI uninstalled Uber when Travis Kalanick's myriad improprieties came to light. I'm not ready to forgive the company, since its very existence is built on such despicable behavior. Sure they've made improvements blah blah, but I see no reason to go back. I hope Lyft survives for this reason alone.
- tambourine_man 4y agoIt feels so weird to me that the WSJ is writing about a post-pandemic scenario when 500 people are still dying everyday from Covid in its country.
- CincinnatiMan 4y agoWhat would your threshold be for calling things post-pandemic?
- b215826 4y agoFlu kills around 35,000 people a year in the US, which amounts to 100 deaths per day. Covid is killing five times more people right now.
- ksenzee 4y ago"Constantly present but at manageable levels" is the definition of endemic. The question is whether the levels are manageable. I would argue they're not. Most people seem to think they are.
- civilized 4y agoWhat does manageable mean?
- black_13 4y ago
- ergocoder 4y agoTo be honest, I somehow believe that car service, delivery, and payment should have been an infrastructure like electricity and partially controlled or highly regulated by government. Some day it'll be like that.
- sva_ 4y agoYeah, that works great. Like in east Germany, where the production of cars was limited by centralized production of parts that lead to waiting times of 10years+, if you wanted to purchase a car. Many people were on those waiting lists and experienced the collapse of the USSR before they even got the chance.
- ergocoder 4y agoI'm talking about car service, not car production.
- baby 4y agoAll these stories about Lyft are cute but if you’re traveling or not in the US then you most likely use Uber.
- forrestthewoods 4y agoI swore Uber off years ago. However I recently had 3 horrible experiences with Lyft in a row so now I’m back to Uber. There’s so some type of scam where Lyft drivers accept a ride then don’t move. They try to get you to cancel and pay a $3 fee. If you wait long enough you can cancel for free. My last Lyft ride took multiple drivers and 30 minutes to arrive in downtown Seattle. So frustrating. I’m sure other people have had similar and worse experiences with Uber. I’m sure I’ll rage quit them again before long.