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A 13-year-old boy sets up Adsense for his Youtube channel and his father is told that his son is now banned from Adsense/Admob for a lifetime. This is what you

by code51 4y ago

A 13-year-old boy sets up Adsense for his Youtube channel and his father is told that his son is now banned from Adsense/Admob for a lifetime. This is what you get when you have no humans in the loop.

pcai 4y ago
What would having a human in the loop accomplish in this case? Doesn't strike me as the poster child of a massive injustice
- blondin 4y ago
  they wouldn't have banned the kid for life?
- sct202 4y ago
  Human in the loop could redirect payments to their parent without a lifetime ban. Children do unwise things all the time. Google's growth rates are starting to plateau, and they might want to revisit the legion of people they've robobanned from spending on their platforms.
  - TylerE 4y ago
    The problem is minors can’t legally enter into binding contracts (with a very small number of exceptions, none of which this even approaches)
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      That'd be a reasonable argument to ban minors until they turn 18, but not after that.
    - romwell 4y ago
      No, the problem is that Google doesn't have a human being to tell the kid "have your parents contact us".
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    It may not be possible for Google to do that redirect without incurring legal liability. Fraud occurred here. Google just shuffling the shells might be aiding and abetting fraud. (The law here isn't set up just to protect Google; nor is it set up to just protect the kid. It ties into broader societal protections against child exploitation and child labor. So Google runs the risk of tripping over criminal liability, in which case the end result is no longer in the hands of any of the immediate parties. Their policies are maximally paranoid to avoid that outcome).
    - romwell 4y ago
      >It may not be possible for Google to do that redirect without incurring legal liability. Utter nonsense. "Hold on, you are 13? Get your parents to call us, they'll have to set up that account for you"
    - code51 4y ago
      a) Unpaid balance could just be refunded to advertisers. b) Worries about child labor: already happened. Google profited from his activity already. It's just the kid not receiving anything.
- treffer 4y ago
  Got banned from Amazon on my first purchase. For some reason the payment bounced even though everything should have been fine (correct payment details, enough money in the account etc). Complained and got unbanned. AWS has even a notary(!) based process to recover accounts. It is pretty normal to recover bad things on non-Google sites by getting a human into the loop, especially if money is involved.
  - forgotpwd16 4y ago
    AWS support has left me really impressed. They were answering inquiries even when started and was playing around a free-tier account. (Even got a refund for a charge due to forgetting some stuff running beyond the free-tier limit.) Not surprised they dominate the cloud segment and GCP barely reaches two-digits usage.
    - kylebyproxy 4y ago
      > forgetting some stuff running beyond the free-tier limit Weird, they banned my account for that. Tried AWS when it was brand new and assumed they'd just drop the instance when the free tier expired.
      - forgotpwd16 4y ago
        Banned sounds strange. Going beyond the free-tier limits simply means they start charging you. Though to say the truth, as you, was expecting them to stop the service. Did you tried a chargeback or blocked them access to your card?
SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
Was he told this? The submission appears to be a user comment from some anonymous guy named "busterjet", describing what would happen in a hypothetical scenario. There's no indication that such a scenario has actually happened or that busterjet represents Google.
- code51 4y ago
  You're right, this person does not represent Google but here's the hard truth: Google does not offer Adsense/Admob support for ordinary people. No way to reach them.
evilotto 4y ago
If the 13-year old had killed someone, they could be prosecuted as a minor and they would go to juvie and their record would be sealed after they turn 21 and they could get on with their life. But stealing a trivial amount of money from a corporation, well that's certainly deserving of an Internet Death Penalty.
- joshstrange 4y ago
  > But stealing a trivial amount of money from a corporation It was only $300 and it was never paid out (since it needed more verification to pay out). If anything Google /made/ and extra $300 (they made more than that since the $300 is after their take). Also it wasn't "stolen" it was earned on a YT channel.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    > If anything Google /made/ and extra $300 Not really, since they can cash it out when they're 18, and unclaimed but earned funds on an active but unverified AdSense account don't just disappear into the ether - so on Google's balance sheet, they don't have an extra $300.
    - joshstrange 4y ago
      I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of this issue though right? The account is burned forever because it's stuck in limbo. I think there would be less consternation/anger if the kid just had to wait till they were 18 but the way the support forum reads this account is forever "in limbo" and even turning 18 won't fix that. Surely Google writes off old "debts" after a period of time. Maybe not? I guess they will make interest off it at a minimum.
      - judge2020 4y ago
        > but the way the support forum reads this account is forever "in limbo" and even turning 18 won't fix that. I think this is poor writing from the 'Product Expect' person - the 13 year old already has an adsense account that is 'active' but 'unverified', but verification is still possible. > If he tries to apply again when he is 18 he will be refused on the grounds of already having an account, even though he will have abandoned it, it's still there. but he's not re-applying, just verifying the existing account. The parent here did not indicate that 'verification' is now unavailable, just that the parent can't input their own name into the verification form.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
And no escape hatch (google policy is 1 and done) when the automated system goofs seals the deal

by code51 4y ago

pcai 4y ago

What would having a human in the loop accomplish in this case? Doesn't strike me as the poster child of a massive injustice

blondin 4y ago
they wouldn't have banned the kid for life?
sct202 4y ago
Human in the loop could redirect payments to their parent without a lifetime ban. Children do unwise things all the time. Google's growth rates are starting to plateau, and they might want to revisit the legion of people they've robobanned from spending on their platforms.
- TylerE 4y ago
  The problem is minors can’t legally enter into binding contracts (with a very small number of exceptions, none of which this even approaches)
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    That'd be a reasonable argument to ban minors until they turn 18, but not after that.
  - romwell 4y ago
    No, the problem is that Google doesn't have a human being to tell the kid "have your parents contact us".
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  It may not be possible for Google to do that redirect without incurring legal liability. Fraud occurred here. Google just shuffling the shells might be aiding and abetting fraud. (The law here isn't set up just to protect Google; nor is it set up to just protect the kid. It ties into broader societal protections against child exploitation and child labor. So Google runs the risk of tripping over criminal liability, in which case the end result is no longer in the hands of any of the immediate parties. Their policies are maximally paranoid to avoid that outcome).
  - romwell 4y ago
    >It may not be possible for Google to do that redirect without incurring legal liability. Utter nonsense. "Hold on, you are 13? Get your parents to call us, they'll have to set up that account for you"
  - code51 4y ago
    a) Unpaid balance could just be refunded to advertisers. b) Worries about child labor: already happened. Google profited from his activity already. It's just the kid not receiving anything.
treffer 4y ago
Got banned from Amazon on my first purchase. For some reason the payment bounced even though everything should have been fine (correct payment details, enough money in the account etc). Complained and got unbanned. AWS has even a notary(!) based process to recover accounts. It is pretty normal to recover bad things on non-Google sites by getting a human into the loop, especially if money is involved.
- forgotpwd16 4y ago
  AWS support has left me really impressed. They were answering inquiries even when started and was playing around a free-tier account. (Even got a refund for a charge due to forgetting some stuff running beyond the free-tier limit.) Not surprised they dominate the cloud segment and GCP barely reaches two-digits usage.
  - kylebyproxy 4y ago
    > forgetting some stuff running beyond the free-tier limit Weird, they banned my account for that. Tried AWS when it was brand new and assumed they'd just drop the instance when the free tier expired.
    - forgotpwd16 4y ago
      Banned sounds strange. Going beyond the free-tier limits simply means they start charging you. Though to say the truth, as you, was expecting them to stop the service. Did you tried a chargeback or blocked them access to your card?

SpicyLemonZest 4y ago

Was he told this? The submission appears to be a user comment from some anonymous guy named "busterjet", describing what would happen in a hypothetical scenario. There's no indication that such a scenario has actually happened or that busterjet represents Google.

code51 4y ago
You're right, this person does not represent Google but here's the hard truth: Google does not offer Adsense/Admob support for ordinary people. No way to reach them.

evilotto 4y ago

If the 13-year old had killed someone, they could be prosecuted as a minor and they would go to juvie and their record would be sealed after they turn 21 and they could get on with their life. But stealing a trivial amount of money from a corporation, well that's certainly deserving of an Internet Death Penalty.

joshstrange 4y ago
> But stealing a trivial amount of money from a corporation It was only $300 and it was never paid out (since it needed more verification to pay out). If anything Google /made/ and extra $300 (they made more than that since the $300 is after their take). Also it wasn't "stolen" it was earned on a YT channel.
- judge2020 4y ago
  > If anything Google /made/ and extra $300 Not really, since they can cash it out when they're 18, and unclaimed but earned funds on an active but unverified AdSense account don't just disappear into the ether - so on Google's balance sheet, they don't have an extra $300.
  - joshstrange 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of this issue though right? The account is burned forever because it's stuck in limbo. I think there would be less consternation/anger if the kid just had to wait till they were 18 but the way the support forum reads this account is forever "in limbo" and even turning 18 won't fix that. Surely Google writes off old "debts" after a period of time. Maybe not? I guess they will make interest off it at a minimum.
    - judge2020 4y ago
      > but the way the support forum reads this account is forever "in limbo" and even turning 18 won't fix that. I think this is poor writing from the 'Product Expect' person - the 13 year old already has an adsense account that is 'active' but 'unverified', but verification is still possible. > If he tries to apply again when he is 18 he will be refused on the grounds of already having an account, even though he will have abandoned it, it's still there. but he's not re-applying, just verifying the existing account. The parent here did not indicate that 'verification' is now unavailable, just that the parent can't input their own name into the verification form.

stjohnswarts 4y ago

And no escape hatch (google policy is 1 and done) when the automated system goofs seals the deal