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> those with 100 or more employees or contractors will have to report median and mean hourly pay rates by job category and “each combination of race, ethnicity,

> those with 100 or more employees or contractors will have to report median and mean hourly pay rates by job category and “each combination of race, ethnicity, and sex.” since excluding YOE could bias these values, I wonder if we will start seeing more granularity in job titles; Role I,II,III, Senior Role I,II,III also even at 100 employees, is that high enough such that it won't reveal individuals' salary, and thus a privacy violation? surely the bill most cover such an obvious counterexample

Bilal_io 4y ago
Serious question: which law protects salary information? And if this law exists, does it apply to employers only or does it extend beyond that?
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > which law protects salary information? To my knowledge, none. There are some laws that exist about some groups (e.g. the IRS) disclosing salary data. But there are whole data-broker businesses built around getting salaries reported to them from employers and using that data.
- cj 4y ago
  No law protects salary information AFAIK. Employers can disclose them if they choose (but they don’t for obvious reasons) and many (most?) employees prefer to not have the world know what their salary is.
- dbingham 4y ago
  I am not a lawyer, but I'm not aware of any such law. Public employee salaries are already publicly posted. You can look up the salaries of any public employee - including those at state universities, municipalities, etc Honestly, I think we'd all be better off if corporations were required to publicly post not just salaries but all financial information. I think we should have an open books law. It would help level the playing field in all manner of negotiations, make it easier to study the economy and find out what's really going on, and would make it much, much harder to get away with corporate malfeasance. It wouldn't give any particular corporation a competitive advantage over any other because they would all have each other's information.
  - weaksauce 4y ago
    pay secrecy really only helps to make employers more money while punishing the people that aren't as good at negotiating that one week of their life that they did it at that job. just like tying healthcare to an employer only really benefits the employer and not the people. (people accept jobs that they otherwise wouldn't take because "they need the insurance" etc.)
    - peter422 4y ago
      Exactly. Private salaries only benefit employers.
- spamizbad 4y ago
  > Serious question: which law protects salary information? And if this law exists, does it apply to employers only or does it extend beyond that? None. Incidentally your ability to communicate your salary is protected by the first amendment and various labor laws: Your employer cannot prevent you from sharing your salary information with anyone (which makes sense: it's required on a ton of forms)
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Also protected by labor law. https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-right...
jedberg 4y ago
> is that high enough such that it won't reveal individuals' salary, and thus a privacy violation Why do you consider that a privacy violation? I know in the US people are very touchy about it, but in other countries pay information is public. And pay for immigrants in the US is public as well (H1-B salary info is public). And also some companies have public salary information as well. And anyone who works for the government already has public salaries, as well as top executives at any public company. It feels like moving towards public salary information would go a long way towards addressing pay inequality.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  Just to expound for a bit, labor market efficiency would be increased by income transparency. We all want our markets operating with as few distortions as possible, right?
- timr 4y ago
  You don't need an individual's salary to "address pay inequality". You need statistics along the axes of inequality that you choose to care about (which is another discussion altogether...) Pointing out (rightly) that H1B salaries are public is not a great argument; I think it's pretty lousy that we publish the salaries of individual immigrants. We should stop doing that, and publish anonymized data instead. But at the end of the day, there's no law of the universe that any piece of information should or shouldn't be public. These are cultural norms, and fairly debated.
  - stefan_ 4y ago
    That's funny; this "cultural norm" only seems to exist when employees are concerned, while employers of course share your salary history widely and frequently. Equifax "The Work Number" boasts some 573 million records, of which they have leaked at least 170 million in the past. It seems you are getting played; markets, of course, profit from optimal information.
    - timr 4y ago
      ...and I don't support that, either.
hayst4ck 4y ago
Even if it were, how bad is public salary info? For h1b holders that info is mildly public: https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=google&job=software+engineer&city=mountain+view&year=2022 https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=google&job=software+engine... In Washington state, all public employee salary information is not anonymous at all: https://fiscal.wa.gov/salaries.aspx https://fiscal.wa.gov/salaries.aspx Companies already pay to get explicit salary info: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753 When companies have access to wage info, but workers don't, that creates asymmetric information in favor of businesses. In exchange for giving up some privacy, my negotiating power, and therefore theoretically my ability to negotiate pay goes up. I would rather have my salary public than to potentially be underpaid by several tens of thousands of dollars.
giantg2 4y ago
Hourly pay rates is another one that is likely problematic. Salaried people may work more hours without them being tracked.
kbelder 4y ago
> those with 100 or more employees or contractors will have to report median and mean hourly pay rates by job category and “each combination of race, ethnicity, and sex.” I would have ambivalent feelings about the law without this, but with this I vehemently oppose it.

Bilal_io 4y ago

Serious question: which law protects salary information? And if this law exists, does it apply to employers only or does it extend beyond that?

HWR_14 4y ago
> which law protects salary information? To my knowledge, none. There are some laws that exist about some groups (e.g. the IRS) disclosing salary data. But there are whole data-broker businesses built around getting salaries reported to them from employers and using that data.
cj 4y ago
No law protects salary information AFAIK. Employers can disclose them if they choose (but they don’t for obvious reasons) and many (most?) employees prefer to not have the world know what their salary is.
dbingham 4y ago
I am not a lawyer, but I'm not aware of any such law. Public employee salaries are already publicly posted. You can look up the salaries of any public employee - including those at state universities, municipalities, etc Honestly, I think we'd all be better off if corporations were required to publicly post not just salaries but all financial information. I think we should have an open books law. It would help level the playing field in all manner of negotiations, make it easier to study the economy and find out what's really going on, and would make it much, much harder to get away with corporate malfeasance. It wouldn't give any particular corporation a competitive advantage over any other because they would all have each other's information.
- weaksauce 4y ago
  pay secrecy really only helps to make employers more money while punishing the people that aren't as good at negotiating that one week of their life that they did it at that job. just like tying healthcare to an employer only really benefits the employer and not the people. (people accept jobs that they otherwise wouldn't take because "they need the insurance" etc.)
  - peter422 4y ago
    Exactly. Private salaries only benefit employers.
spamizbad 4y ago
> Serious question: which law protects salary information? And if this law exists, does it apply to employers only or does it extend beyond that? None. Incidentally your ability to communicate your salary is protected by the first amendment and various labor laws: Your employer cannot prevent you from sharing your salary information with anyone (which makes sense: it's required on a ton of forms)
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Also protected by labor law. https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-right...

jedberg 4y ago

> is that high enough such that it won't reveal individuals' salary, and thus a privacy violation Why do you consider that a privacy violation? I know in the US people are very touchy about it, but in other countries pay information is public. And pay for immigrants in the US is public as well (H1-B salary info is public). And also some companies have public salary information as well. And anyone who works for the government already has public salaries, as well as top executives at any public company. It feels like moving towards public salary information would go a long way towards addressing pay inequality.

kelseyfrog 4y ago
Just to expound for a bit, labor market efficiency would be increased by income transparency. We all want our markets operating with as few distortions as possible, right?
timr 4y ago
You don't need an individual's salary to "address pay inequality". You need statistics along the axes of inequality that you choose to care about (which is another discussion altogether...) Pointing out (rightly) that H1B salaries are public is not a great argument; I think it's pretty lousy that we publish the salaries of individual immigrants. We should stop doing that, and publish anonymized data instead. But at the end of the day, there's no law of the universe that any piece of information should or shouldn't be public. These are cultural norms, and fairly debated.
- stefan_ 4y ago
  That's funny; this "cultural norm" only seems to exist when employees are concerned, while employers of course share your salary history widely and frequently. Equifax "The Work Number" boasts some 573 million records, of which they have leaked at least 170 million in the past. It seems you are getting played; markets, of course, profit from optimal information.
  - timr 4y ago
    ...and I don't support that, either.

hayst4ck 4y ago

Even if it were, how bad is public salary info? For h1b holders that info is mildly public: https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=google&job=software+engineer&city=mountain+view&year=2022 https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=google&job=software+engine... In Washington state, all public employee salary information is not anonymous at all: https://fiscal.wa.gov/salaries.aspx https://fiscal.wa.gov/salaries.aspx Companies already pay to get explicit salary info: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753 When companies have access to wage info, but workers don't, that creates asymmetric information in favor of businesses. In exchange for giving up some privacy, my negotiating power, and therefore theoretically my ability to negotiate pay goes up. I would rather have my salary public than to potentially be underpaid by several tens of thousands of dollars.

giantg2 4y ago

Hourly pay rates is another one that is likely problematic. Salaried people may work more hours without them being tracked.

kbelder 4y ago

> those with 100 or more employees or contractors will have to report median and mean hourly pay rates by job category and “each combination of race, ethnicity, and sex.” I would have ambivalent feelings about the law without this, but with this I vehemently oppose it.