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Apple removed all VK and Mail.ru applications from the App Store
- seydor 4y agoGood for android
- samizdis 4y agoMore broadly than the VK and mail.ru apps mentioned in the article as being pulled by Apple, but not (yet?) Google, there's an Ars article today [1] looking at a bigger picture: > Google and Apple have removed hundreds of apps from their app stores at the request of governments around the world ... [1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/09/apps-can-pose-bigger-security-privacy-threat-based-on-where-you-download-them/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/09/apps-... EDIT to add that the Ars article was originally published in The Conversation - https://theconversation.com/the-same-app-can-pose-a-bigger-security-and-privacy-threat-depending-on-the-country-where-you-download-it-study-finds-189099 https://theconversation.com/the-same-app-can-pose-a-bigger-s...
- jcmontx 4y agoAbout time
- throwie_wayward 4y ago
- jupp0r 4y agoWhat does that mean in practice? Are new installs not possible or is Apple wiping existing apps from peoples phones?
- NeverFade 4y ago
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- rabuse 4y agoYou'd hate the U.S. then.
- NeverFade 4y ago
- ddbb33 4y agoLol
- anonymousab 4y agoMany would argue that the US deserved and deserves comeuppance for its actions abroad, yes. If other countries felt it to be their prerogative to remove US software or products as part of that, it would not be absurd.
- rjzzleep 4y agoReally ? Yet, we label all nations that do that dictatorial repressive regimes. In fact people frequently do so on this very forum. Maybe they are, but come on let's have some consistency in our behaviour.
- anonym29 4y agoBehavioral consistency? That's a tall order for citizens of a country where the average citizen is purportedly fluent in 0.7 languages and only about half the population even votes.
- b0afc375b5 4y agoSomeone correct me if I'm wrong, I read that nuclear options were considered for Vietnam war but were never publicly used as a threat. I'm guessing same with Korean war?
- nonameking2026 4y agoGreat for waking people up to a centralized authority that acts without warning. Great for deepening the divide between people & countries.
- seydor 4y ago> waking people up to a centralized authority i think people are asking for it
- fsflover 4y agoAny references?
- seydor 4y agohttps://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Building_a_Trusted_Ecosystem_for_Millions_of_Apps.pdf https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Building_a_Trusted_Ecosys... https://www.dw.com/en/apple-ceo-tim-cook-rejects-app-store-monopoly-claims/a-57627362 https://www.dw.com/en/apple-ceo-tim-cook-rejects-app-store-m... https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/app-store-would-be-toxic-mess-without-control-apple-ceo-tim-cook/articleshow/82851350.cms?from=mdr https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/app-sto...
- watwut 4y ago[flagged]
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- AlexandrB 4y agoMy impression is that both services are widely used in "Slavic" countries, not just Russia. In particular, my relatives in Ukraine use both mail.ru and VK. I wonder if this will trigger a move to equivalent American services, like Facebook or Gmail, for some.
- kergonath 4y ago> We will remind you that the VKontakte social network is almost 100% controlled by the Federal Security Service of Russia This is not suspicious at all.
- anonym29 4y agoI laugh at comments like this. Every major social media network in the US feeds all data directly to the NSA without any kind of warrant. Did everyone forget about the Snowden leaks? Or did everyone just decide to trust the same people who lied to us about committing the crime in the first place when they said they stopped?
- shapefrog 4y ago> Every major social media network in the US feeds all data directly to the NSA without any kind of warrant. > Did everyone forget about the Snowden leaks It appears you are misremembering or misunderstanding the Snowden leaks.
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoSure, there was a need for warrant, but those were issued by the FISA courts which were secret and were basically a rubber stamp with the judges saying yes to every request. Might as well not be a warrant as you have no legal defense against it or even a way to know about it. Or which part of Snowden leaks he misunderstood?
- shapefrog 4y ago> feeds all data directly to the NSA > without any kind of warrant. there was a need for warrant Nevertheless, you confirmed one part of a two part statement as being demonstrably false. So in conclusion, companies responded to court orders from courts in the jurisduction they were in. > Might as well not be a warrant as you have no legal defense against it You might need to take a refresher on what a warrant is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probable_cause is as good a starter as any, the bar is low, very low. Then check in in the Patriot Act, where the bar was lowered even further.
- cgb223 4y agoSounds like they’re complying with sanctions as any US business must do
- Bilal_io 4y agoIf Apple sold phones in Russia, do they also have to delete those apps there? If the answer is yes, that's very troubling, and it goes beyond complying with US regulations IMO.
- andrepew 4y agoThe app store is a separate business than hardware. They don't have to delete already installed apps, but continuing to distribute them I imagine the US government definitely does have the power to stop.
- dijit 4y agoBy the letter of the law, you’re mistaken. it bears repeating that laws do not follow morality though, of course. Personally: I find it deeply uncomfortable that nearly all tech seems to come out of the US, where sanctions and rules are applied unilaterally, with only relatively minor pushback. I have even had issues supporting users when I was transitioning from bare-metal to cloud due to US sanctions blocking Cuba, Iran and a part of Ukraine (Crimea) which is nearly impossible for us to avoid selling our product to accidentally, dooming anyone living there to buy a product that can never work. (The product was a multiplayer game)
- KptMarchewa 4y agoIt does not even matter whether you're coming from US. It matters whether you want to do any business in US or with US organizations.
- anonym29 4y ago
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- Traubenfuchs 4y agoGood for the users, as it will drive the creation of usable web apps. The majority of native apps should not be native apps.
- rjzzleep 4y agoThis whole thing has given HarmonyOS a second market. I thought the whole thing would stay China only but it seems that as a result of sanctioning Huawei and by extension HarmonyOS based devices they have now opened a second (fairly big market) to HarmonyOS. I don't understand how there is no one left around these people to advise them of the unintended consequences for their policy decisions.
- DIARRHEA_xd 4y agoIs it possible to understand that Russia is the aggressor but also oppose sanctions? Russia has absolutely committed more atrocities than Iran and Cuba, but none of these countries are democracies, and therefore I find it difficult to support measures that disproportionately affect the citizenry over the ruling class in any of these countries. I also hope the dialogue in these threads can improve. The quality of the comments, at the time of writing mine, are poor and quippy.
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- SllX 4y agoIt doesn’t matter what form of government Russia has on paper when they’ve invaded a separate sovereign nation and worst than that: appear to be very serious about genocide and also appear to be very serious about using their nukes in some capacity. They can stand equal among nations with advanced financial markets, medicine and technology if they want. I have no problem with that, but it comes with a price: checking their territorial ambitions at the door. At this point I would even add on to that fully surrendering their nuclear arsenal because the leaders they’ve either chosen or “chosen” (and for the purposes of this conversation it doesn’t really matter which anymore) have proven to be irresponsible caretakers.
- pessimizer 4y ago> appear to be very serious about genocide Words don't mean anything anymore.
- SllX 4y agoNo context? I might be agreeing with you. But Putin led off with “Ukrainians aren’t a real people”. Signaling counts for a lot in war and diplomacy.
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- swe_dima 4y agoI am a bit conflicted here. On the one hand I hate VK because it has censorship, they provide tools to police to monitor conversations and crack down on people. On the other, now that Facebook, Instagram and Twitter are banned it leaves even less means of communication and spreading information inside Russia, as bad as VK was. If only it was kicked out before Russia banned Facebook (it allowed hatespeach towards Russians) people might have migrated to Facebook or something, now there's going to be a void. Well, VK Web version is just as functional as the app, so maybe not such a big hit. Also, in Russia most people use Android, so Google Play ban would be more effective.
- lostmsu 4y agoUse Matrix (I know it is not a replacement for social media). As constituents of a tyranny Russians should anyway.
- mrleblanc101 4y agoThe app continue to work for everyone that has already installed it. And you can still redownload it from your purchased page. So it shouldn't be a major issue.
- zandroid 4y agoWill Apple and Google remove other Russian apps like FaceApp etc.?
- Yizahi 4y ago
- concinds 4y agoVK has not been targeted with sanctions, despite what the article implies (though with scare quotes). VK's CEO is personally sanctioned due to being an "adult child of someone who had been a Russian government official" (source Reuters[0]), but VK the company is not sanctioned. This is a shameful unilateral decision by Apple, let there be no ambiguity. [0]: https://www.reuters.com/article/vk-results-idINL5N2V601G https://www.reuters.com/article/vk-results-idINL5N2V601G
- claudiawerner 4y ago>due to being an "adult child of someone who had been a Russian government official" (source Reuters[0]), but VK the company is not sanctioned. I get the intention behind this rule for applying sanctions, but it still seems unfair to me that the son pays for the sins of the father and can't even atone for him.
- euos 4y agoVK and such are state-own basically. This guy was appointed because of his father. It is not like he built the company. Pavel Durov, the founder, was basically exiled from Russia years ago.
- endisneigh 4y agoIt’s going to be strange 50 years from now when the internet is fragmented (more than it is now) by country.
- mc32 4y agoMaybe it'll go the telco route and everyone has their little playground to rule over.
- anonym29 4y agoIn all likelihood, it won't be completely unnavigable. North Korea blocks all US traffic, but if you use a proxy located in mainland China, you can browse the North Korean "internet" from the US.
- numpad0 4y agoIt is already fragmented by socio-cultural borders. If you are an Internet user in Europe, or even India, I would expect that you have absolute zero prior knowledge of Lewd Dreams meme. From the western borders of China all the way to Bering Strait it’s as basic of a knowledge as it subtly being inserted into or even exploited in totalitarian state propaganda. But you haven’t seen it, because you have no reason to(no offense intended); there are invisible cultural borders already, in this global platform.
- Yizahi 4y agoNah, failed dictatorships are incompetent and can't push their economies overall, on par with regular countries. And due to this economical deficiency their companies will never be globally competitive, including competitive software and webservices. So will be forced to to keep open access to the internet to feed on the major web platforms and services. That's why all these nutjobs like Iran always restore internet access to the outside after some crisis has passed. The only exceptions could be either successful self sufficient dictatorship (only China today), or complete nutjobs at the end of their rule, who disregard all concerns about local businesses.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Garvi 4y ago
- megous 4y agoYeah, people vent online quite a bit these days, but false pretenses?
- te_chris 4y agoWhat the hell are you talking about “false pretences”? Trying to tie all that stuff about reddit etc together with the current treatment of Russia, given that is a direct result of their cruel and pointless invasion of Ukraine, is ridiculous.
- adamrezich 4y agoone would think that after the "WMDs" fiasco it would be harder to manufacture consent of the US public for hundreds-of-billions-of-taxpayer-dollars destabilization of foreign nations with no apparent direct gain for our citizens, but, indeed, it's happening once again, in my lifetime. one would think that we would now be more resistant to propagandistic conditioning of hatred toward an entire nation, but, indeed, it's happening once again, in my lifetime. it's as though nobody stops to think about why they feel strongly about something like this, or where these strong feelings came from.
- te_chris 4y agoYes, we must be more resistant to hating nations that invade other nations in Europe, unprovoked. We must judge them entirely by their words and reassurances while studiously ignoring their actions and deeds. Only then will we have atoned. "it's as though nobody stops to think about why they feel strongly about something like this, or where these strong feelings came from.". Indeed.
- adamrezich 4y agolook, if you think the US should deploy troops over there, just say so. let's do it. waffling about dumping billions and billions of taxpayer dollars into nebulously-defined foreign coffers while gradually propagandizing the populace into manufacturing consent for yet another military-industrial complex incursion on foreign soil is getting really tiresome. let's just get on with it, it's about time we completely took over the government of some country across the ocean for poorly-defined hard-to-articulate reasons so as to replace it wholesale with Democracy™ and call it a day like we have time and time again throughout my entire life. sure, it would be nice if the lives of my nation's soldiers were sacrificed for some actually meaningful reason that in any way impacts the citizens of my country, but whatever, that ship seems to have sailed before I was born—whatever the politicians and talking heads on the teevee say is cause for war, must be cause for war! let's go police the world!
- slezyr 4y ago> In January 2016, China banned VKontakte, claiming that it was manipulating web content and cooperating with the Kremlin. According to Russia's media watchdog, the network estimates around 300,000 users based in China.[63] As of 14 February 2018, China authorities unblocked VKontakte and it was fully accessible in the country.[64] This is hilarious.
- xoi0x 4y agoIt is not only about russians using apps but russian game developers not profiting example my.games small branch owned by vk made 10m $ profit only last ( 7 mil ios 3 android) month majority of vk is owned by gasprom therefore that way money is still flowing even though. It doesnt matter that russians dont have option ti do purchases in app, people world wide buy stuff in game and money is flowing to russia other ways.
- irrational 4y agoWhere I work we were told to remove the option to choose the russian language from any drop down and delete all russian translations from the database. That didn't quite seem right to me since there are people who speak russian who don't live in russia, but they seem to be trying to remove all traces of any sort of connection with russia (the country).
- stunt 4y agoIf I am not mistaken, this happened to Iran a few years ago. Many websites do not include Iran in the drop down list of countries. It definitely doesn't sound right.
- scohesc 4y agoInteresting how they provide evidence that the apps were removed from the Apple store, but they make the very strong claims that apps are "almost 100% owned" by a governmental agency without providing any links as a source, further proof, or more reading. Doesn't seem like strong journalistic standards... Does anybody have a link for me to do some more reading? Not sure what to search for that won't pull up mainstream media articles instead of primary sources. I think it's very concerning to see society actively wanting to suppress "harmful" information/apps that've been deemed "harmful" by Governments, and by extension, corporate interests. Society sees these massive companies doing it with statements like "removing harmful misinformation", "aiding in the 'fight against the evil russians!'", etc. etc. etc. I understand that "yes, Apple is a private company with their own catered app-store experience and can control what they do and don't allow on it". What I don't like is that there are so few competitors in the phone space - Android app store, and Apple store, the rest are single-digit percentage or low double-digit percentage market shares. And, these current companies do everything in their power to make sure no other competitors enter the scene, even though there's high barriers/costs to enter the mobile device market. Apple (and all gigantic tech companies) have so much power to sway society and sway public opinion, purely by restricting what apps or content you can or cannot have on your devices - further more they make corporate decisions (which I am undoubtedly sure are done behind closed doors with execs from other companies and/or the US Government) that affect so many people without even a thought. Whether it's been designed that way to allow the US government to have more soft-power over it's people rather than hard power like other countries (China, Russia) or not, it's harmful to everybody. I wish there was more active/worthy competition in the mobile phone space.