5 ms·

Just FYI, if you use those suggestion for a German company that requires a Lebenslauf, good luck getting picked. These rules are general enough, but they are

Just FYI, if you use those suggestion for a German company that requires a Lebenslauf, good luck getting picked. These rules are general enough, but they are VERY American. Boasting about your results (e.g. about how you saved your previous company A LOT of money singlehandedly) will not fly very well in a German setting, even if it's an international company.

btheshoe 4y ago
Why would a German company not want to hear about the impact that a potential employee created? What's the difference in culture here? Genuine question.
- krageon 4y ago
  It's braggy and reeks of narcissism. It's also probably not true.
- spoonjim 4y ago
  Cultural norms around tooting one's own horn vary widely, but the United States is a far end of the "toot away" spectrum (with Israel and some parts of Central America)
- newswasboring 4y ago
  I am not sure about German companies but I'm almost always sceptical of these claims. It might be that I have always worked in high tech manufacturing industry and any person making a "single handedly" claim is lying. You may have come up with the algorithm, but someone made the system to deploy it, someone made available all the data, someone else made the dashboard library which you built upon. Making these kind of claims are at best selfish and at worst stealing credit.
- ralfd 4y ago
  To a German such boasting would sound like you are an embellishing loudmouth who at best likes to sniff his own farts and at worst makes stories up. Would you want a Zapp Brannigan as a colleague? Such stories can be better told in the personal interview, where the recruiter can judge the validity better.
- camillomiller 4y ago
  It's a cultural difference. You would be seen as someone who sells themselves too strongly. There's also a general disbelief around extreme individualism. You can't possibly have done all that alone, you still had a network of people around you. And even if you were indeed instrumental to reaching that goal, boasting like that shows that you are not a good sport that acknowledges colleagues and carry them along and up. I think one of the biggest cultural clashes that Americans experience abroad, especially in Europe, is discovering that life isn't a constant sales pitch to sell yourself.
  - sneak 4y ago
    What you said is true about the way people there emotionally process things. However, it also flies in the face of reality sometimes. There are indeed decisions and choices that can be made by single individual people in a single moment that can cost or save an organization huge amounts of time, money, or both. Telling the truth about those things is not boasting. Of course, many people overstate the issue, but this general allergy to claims of greatness is a good way to also reject the actually-great.
    - toxik 4y ago
      You can boast with true statements. "I lifted 100 kg, and it was no big deal." Contrast that with "By maintaining a workout program I managed to work up to lifting 100 kg without issue." It is about the tone and the "spin" if you will.
      - kuboble 4y ago
        And which one is better in your opinion?
    - DoughnutHole 4y ago
      When every CV is embellished to the extreme there's no way of distinguishing the superstars from the braggarts. Assuming that the most bragging CVs are all written by superstars who single handedly saved every company they've worked at is the less realistic of the two options.
- onion2k 4y ago
  From a UK perspective rather than German, but it's basically impossible to verify and almost certainly a team effort if it's real. We tend to frown on people claiming credit for things that they didn't actually do themselves. We can be quite cynical.
deleted 4y ago
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coretx 4y ago
Most HN people should refrain from soliciting with (conservative, years behind) German firms anyhow. Not only do they pay shit compared to other countries, their taxation rate is also among the highest. Beggers/Germans can't be choosers.
- camillomiller 4y ago
  You pay into a social system that generally works. Now please backpedal into your Ayn Rand corner and just re-read Atlas Shrugged for the 100th time.
  - coretx 4y ago
    Are we talking career or politics ? I don't like these facts either. Note that even a java certificate can buy you entry in most countries.
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adamsmith143 4y ago
Why would you expect advice to graduates of an American University presumably about the American job market to have any relevance in Germany? I wouldn't expect job market advice from TU Berlin to have relevance in Ohio.
screye 4y ago
There is a U shaped curve here. Even in the US, boasting on a resume is considered 'non-elite' and 'low-class' once you reach high enough levels. If you have won international accolades or have a recognizable marker of prestige, then your credentials do the talking for you. Boasting can be seen as compensating for a less than stellar resume. You don't need to mention any qualitative technical creds if you've won international competitions, published at top conferences or are the maintainer of a high-stars open source project. Similarly, for the first few years out of undergrad, your resume gets shorter before it gets longer. It is a recognition of dropping useless credentials from your resume, to keep only the high priority markers of prestige /impact among all your undergrad cruft. It it shows a certain confidence in what you have listed (1 great project is enough), recognition of the limited time spent on it by a recruiter, and an understanding as someone who has an "insider's" view into the industry. Famously, the most elite will have an almost inconvienently barebones profile, as a flex. (Practically, Often to avoid terrible recruiters and getting a high SNR ratio)

btheshoe 4y ago

Why would a German company not want to hear about the impact that a potential employee created? What's the difference in culture here? Genuine question.

krageon 4y ago
It's braggy and reeks of narcissism. It's also probably not true.
spoonjim 4y ago
Cultural norms around tooting one's own horn vary widely, but the United States is a far end of the "toot away" spectrum (with Israel and some parts of Central America)
newswasboring 4y ago
I am not sure about German companies but I'm almost always sceptical of these claims. It might be that I have always worked in high tech manufacturing industry and any person making a "single handedly" claim is lying. You may have come up with the algorithm, but someone made the system to deploy it, someone made available all the data, someone else made the dashboard library which you built upon. Making these kind of claims are at best selfish and at worst stealing credit.
ralfd 4y ago
To a German such boasting would sound like you are an embellishing loudmouth who at best likes to sniff his own farts and at worst makes stories up. Would you want a Zapp Brannigan as a colleague? Such stories can be better told in the personal interview, where the recruiter can judge the validity better.
camillomiller 4y ago
It's a cultural difference. You would be seen as someone who sells themselves too strongly. There's also a general disbelief around extreme individualism. You can't possibly have done all that alone, you still had a network of people around you. And even if you were indeed instrumental to reaching that goal, boasting like that shows that you are not a good sport that acknowledges colleagues and carry them along and up. I think one of the biggest cultural clashes that Americans experience abroad, especially in Europe, is discovering that life isn't a constant sales pitch to sell yourself.
- sneak 4y ago
  What you said is true about the way people there emotionally process things. However, it also flies in the face of reality sometimes. There are indeed decisions and choices that can be made by single individual people in a single moment that can cost or save an organization huge amounts of time, money, or both. Telling the truth about those things is not boasting. Of course, many people overstate the issue, but this general allergy to claims of greatness is a good way to also reject the actually-great.
  - toxik 4y ago
    You can boast with true statements. "I lifted 100 kg, and it was no big deal." Contrast that with "By maintaining a workout program I managed to work up to lifting 100 kg without issue." It is about the tone and the "spin" if you will.
    - kuboble 4y ago
      And which one is better in your opinion?
  - DoughnutHole 4y ago
    When every CV is embellished to the extreme there's no way of distinguishing the superstars from the braggarts. Assuming that the most bragging CVs are all written by superstars who single handedly saved every company they've worked at is the less realistic of the two options.
onion2k 4y ago
From a UK perspective rather than German, but it's basically impossible to verify and almost certainly a team effort if it's real. We tend to frown on people claiming credit for things that they didn't actually do themselves. We can be quite cynical.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

coretx 4y ago

Most HN people should refrain from soliciting with (conservative, years behind) German firms anyhow. Not only do they pay shit compared to other countries, their taxation rate is also among the highest. Beggers/Germans can't be choosers.

camillomiller 4y ago
You pay into a social system that generally works. Now please backpedal into your Ayn Rand corner and just re-read Atlas Shrugged for the 100th time.
- coretx 4y ago
  Are we talking career or politics ? I don't like these facts either. Note that even a java certificate can buy you entry in most countries.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

adamsmith143 4y ago

Why would you expect advice to graduates of an American University presumably about the American job market to have any relevance in Germany? I wouldn't expect job market advice from TU Berlin to have relevance in Ohio.

screye 4y ago

There is a U shaped curve here. Even in the US, boasting on a resume is considered 'non-elite' and 'low-class' once you reach high enough levels. If you have won international accolades or have a recognizable marker of prestige, then your credentials do the talking for you. Boasting can be seen as compensating for a less than stellar resume. You don't need to mention any qualitative technical creds if you've won international competitions, published at top conferences or are the maintainer of a high-stars open source project. Similarly, for the first few years out of undergrad, your resume gets shorter before it gets longer. It is a recognition of dropping useless credentials from your resume, to keep only the high priority markers of prestige /impact among all your undergrad cruft. It it shows a certain confidence in what you have listed (1 great project is enough), recognition of the limited time spent on it by a recruiter, and an understanding as someone who has an "insider's" view into the industry. Famously, the most elite will have an almost inconvienently barebones profile, as a flex. (Practically, Often to avoid terrible recruiters and getting a high SNR ratio)