4 ms·

Awk, like vim, is a tool I love dearly that I absolutely would never recommend someone else learn. It’s like a form of mental illness but it’s so lodged in my b

by zwkrt 4y ago

Awk, like vim, is a tool I love dearly that I absolutely would never recommend someone else learn. It’s like a form of mental illness but it’s so lodged in my brain and I’ll give it up when they put me in the grave.

orwin 4y ago
Depends on the person and on his specifics. A CS student should absolutely take time to learn to use these vim, awk, gdb etc. For a self-learned dev who is already working and already have his habits, i don't think this is worth his time.
- capableweb 4y ago
  Why is it worth the time of a CS student and not worth the time for a self-learned developer? Feels like the reasoning should be something like; either learning it makes you more efficient, or it doesn't make you more efficient. If it does, learn it, if it doesn't, don't, regardless of your background.
  - fragmede 4y ago
    The opportunity cost of time is not zero. If you already have tools which are working for you, time is (possibly) better spent learning other things.
    - chii 4y ago
      > For a self-learned dev who is already working and already have his habits this implies that the self-learned dev has habits that are just as efficient as the unix toolset being recommended for the CS student. But you dont know if that's actually true - it might be for some people, but not for others. It's a skill for someone to have, to find out whether their current toolkit is not good, and that a better one exists.
  - orwin 4y ago
    Learning this will make you more efficient, always. Using gdb (pdb for me rn, but it's the same) or vim especially, but you have to consider your working week, the habits you forged, and like a sibling said, the opportunity cost. Let's be honest, CS students do have time to try thing, do vim tutor or regex golf (yeah, add regex to the list too) and other stuff like that. Once you're working, you loose some agency. And gain some. Recently at a daily, i proposed to help write my coworker's regex. He is a fine dev/ops guy, but self taught (ex electronics guy) and miss some basics that aren't useful 99% of the time. He could've written his regex without help, but this is typically the case where getting more efficient isn't really worth the cost once you're working.
- nmz 4y ago
  Nobody should learn vim when vis exists.
  - orwin 4y ago
    Replace vim by a modal editor.
  - ComputerGuru 4y ago
    Except you have to recreate the awesome plugins and community that exist around vim for vis. I wish they existed.
    - nmz 4y ago
      And this is why we CS never advances and is still stuck in the 70's. well, just linux.
- randmeerkat 4y ago
  > A CS student should absolutely take time to learn to use these vim, awk, gdb etc. You forgot emacs.
  - BenjiWiebe 4y ago
    He mentioned vim.
    - randmeerkat 4y ago
      > He mentioned vim. He did, but just as less is more vi and emacs should always be mentioned together.
      - orwin 4y ago
        I shouldn't have mentionned vim. What people should learn is to use any modal editor, the specifics aren't important.
bongoman37 4y ago

by zwkrt 4y ago

orwin 4y ago

Depends on the person and on his specifics. A CS student should absolutely take time to learn to use these vim, awk, gdb etc. For a self-learned dev who is already working and already have his habits, i don't think this is worth his time.

capableweb 4y ago
Why is it worth the time of a CS student and not worth the time for a self-learned developer? Feels like the reasoning should be something like; either learning it makes you more efficient, or it doesn't make you more efficient. If it does, learn it, if it doesn't, don't, regardless of your background.
- fragmede 4y ago
  The opportunity cost of time is not zero. If you already have tools which are working for you, time is (possibly) better spent learning other things.
  - chii 4y ago
    > For a self-learned dev who is already working and already have his habits this implies that the self-learned dev has habits that are just as efficient as the unix toolset being recommended for the CS student. But you dont know if that's actually true - it might be for some people, but not for others. It's a skill for someone to have, to find out whether their current toolkit is not good, and that a better one exists.
- orwin 4y ago
  Learning this will make you more efficient, always. Using gdb (pdb for me rn, but it's the same) or vim especially, but you have to consider your working week, the habits you forged, and like a sibling said, the opportunity cost. Let's be honest, CS students do have time to try thing, do vim tutor or regex golf (yeah, add regex to the list too) and other stuff like that. Once you're working, you loose some agency. And gain some. Recently at a daily, i proposed to help write my coworker's regex. He is a fine dev/ops guy, but self taught (ex electronics guy) and miss some basics that aren't useful 99% of the time. He could've written his regex without help, but this is typically the case where getting more efficient isn't really worth the cost once you're working.
nmz 4y ago
Nobody should learn vim when vis exists.
- orwin 4y ago
  Replace vim by a modal editor.
- ComputerGuru 4y ago
  Except you have to recreate the awesome plugins and community that exist around vim for vis. I wish they existed.
  - nmz 4y ago
    And this is why we CS never advances and is still stuck in the 70's. well, just linux.
randmeerkat 4y ago
> A CS student should absolutely take time to learn to use these vim, awk, gdb etc. You forgot emacs.
- BenjiWiebe 4y ago
  He mentioned vim.
  - randmeerkat 4y ago
    > He mentioned vim. He did, but just as less is more vi and emacs should always be mentioned together.
    - orwin 4y ago
      I shouldn't have mentionned vim. What people should learn is to use any modal editor, the specifics aren't important.

bongoman37 4y ago