5 ms·

I use Linux as my main OS for some years now, but use Mac and Windows, mostly because I need to test my software on them, but I have to say: I totally agree. W

by aljgz 4y ago

I use Linux as my main OS for some years now, but use Mac and Windows, mostly because I need to test my software on them, but I have to say: I totally agree. Windows is the only practical desktop OS for most people. Mac is not an OS you can use unless you buy the entire package, and then you have to live with many of its limitations. It absolutely sucks at multitasking (not that most average users care about this one, but anyone coming from windows will struggle). Linux is absolute freedom, but that comes with the cost of having to do much more than install, plug and play. You need to be a computer geek, or you need someone else to fix things for you. So as much as we are mad at Microsoft for deliberately damaging the experience of using what could be a joy to use, it's still the best at what it is.

andrei_says_ 4y ago
Could you elaborate on the difference between Windows and MacOS in the context of multitasking?
- selfhoster69 4y ago
  One thing that has stood out to me is that when I have two Edge windows open, for example and I switch to the last used window from Safari, both windows overlap instead of just the one window I was working with.
  - hollandheese 4y ago
    If you want to just have the one window come forward use Expose to do it, rather than Cmd-Tab or the Dock.
    - aljgz 4y ago
      Using mouse is both slower, and needs more mental process to do the same task. Especially if you need to switch repeatedly while doing something, you come up with a short-term muscle memory: use vscode, alt-tab to the other vscode, alt-tab-tab to chrome. Now you know the first alt-tab takes you to the most recent vscode, but two alt-tabs take you to the first one. I develop a vscode extension and do this routinely. On mac I need to either use the mouse, or switch to vscode, then use CMD+backtick to switch to the other. Both are much slower and a disruption to the flow state. Apple for some reason avoids giving people too many options. Just one option: "threat windows of the same application independently" with a default of no would make everyone happy.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  MacOS uses a considerably different window metaphor than Windows does. This isn't bad, but I think it's fair to call it inherently more complicated than the stacking-windows model that Windows uses or the dead-simple "one app fills your screen" model of iOS/iPadOS. At least, that's the immediate problem I've seen family members point out with MacOS.
  - musicale 4y ago
    It may depend on what you're used to. Whenever I use Windows 10 I feel like I'm fighting a window manager which is constantly trying to eat up the whole screen, even for simple things like settings. I don't get that feeling on macOS or any of the Linux desktop environments that I use.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      I think that's part of the appeal :) Windows has always had inelegant desktop metaphors, but it's straightforwardness makes it very easy to understand. It's slow, but it's also easier to understand than typing random things into Spotlight and hoping you get what you want. I don't like Windows by any stretch of the imagination, but it really does "just work" moreso than MacOS or Linux these days.
    - nl 4y ago
      I do get that the fact you can't Cmd-Tab between windows of an app as well as apps is annoying.
      - pulvinar 4y ago
        There's always Cmd-` (backtick) to cycle through an app's windows. Easy with the key being just above the tab key.
        nl 4y ago
        Yes, but on Windows the same shortcut (Alt-Tab I think?) does both and I'm pretty convinced that is better - especially with full screen apps (windows) on the Mac.
- aljgz 4y ago
  I should say a lot of that is because of the fundamental assumption that multiple instances of an app are related to each other in multitasking. If I have vscode in my external monitor, plus two Firefox instances one in internal and one in the external, than in many ways of switching to the browser, both windows come up. That covers my IDE, and I need an extra click/keystroke to bring it back. One example of many. I've observed many mac users. Most of them are much slower than a windows/Linux user with same level of geekiness. In windows/KDE linux, the window switching is conceptually simple and everyone can learn it fast.
  - hollandheese 4y ago
    Use Expose or Cmd-` rather than Cmd-Tab or the Dock if you want the Windows behavior.
    - aljgz 4y ago
      If you are on chrome, and you have two vscode windows, you need to use CMD-tab to switch to VsCode, then see which one you got, if it's not the one you wanted, use CMD+backtick to switch to the other. Using the mouse is much much slower than the keyboard, especially if on both windows you have been using the keyboard.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - brulard 4y ago
    I'm not sure what kind of users you observed, but I have switched fully to Mac (as a developer from linux+windows) after seeing how quick devs can be on a Macbook. Dev conferences are full of macs and most of my dev friends made a transition to Mac and I have not heard one complaining about any workflow speed. Actually the opposite and so is my experience.
RedShift1 4y ago
For multitasking, this tool has helped me a lot: https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/. Though I still can't figure out why some apps don't work in split view, the window manager just says "Not available in this split view". Split view has always worked in Windows no matter what the app.
- charlie0 4y ago
  Switching windows is just one thing regarding multitasking though. Are there others regarding multitasking? One thing I have found for myself is that the keyboard shortcuts on Mac tend to be more uniform among all the different programs. I've also found Command much easier to use than Ctrl on Windows. I say that as a Windows user, who went to Mac as primary device, and now splitting Windows/Mac roughly 50/50. The shortcut schemes on Mac makes me a far better multitasker than on Windows (with that one caveat being switching between multiple windows of the same app, which I agree, is counter-productive).
  - aljgz 4y ago
    Interesting. Can you elaborate on why CMD is more productive than Ctrl? On windows, usually it's easy to guess what modifier would be assigned to a task. But on Mac, I only need to use memory. In vscode (well that's not an Apple program, but is my main application), Opening documents is CMD+P, but opening terminal is ctrk+backtick. Now, options, is it CMD or Ctrl + comma? You have to know specifically.
bachmeier 4y ago
> Linux is absolute freedom, but that comes with the cost of having to do much more than install, plug and play. You need to be a computer geek, or you need someone else to fix things for you. Hard disagree. Linux works extremely well for the person that only does basic computing. My mother, for instance, used Linux for years. Folks that need to do things like recompile a kernel in 2022 are way in the tail end of the technical distribution.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  My own experience with Linux is that it breaks from the most mundane of things, such that I wouldn't even dare suggest Linux to the average person because the tech support baggage that will ensue would be far more expensive to me than if they just used Windows.
  - als0 4y ago
    Have to say that Ubuntu LTS with the Firefox web browser drastically reduced the number of support calls I'd get from my parents, who used Windows 7 before. Of course, as soon as you start messing with packages or doing more advanced things, then more can go wrong. But it's really good for the web.
    - jakswa 4y ago
      I have this same experience. I put ubuntu LTS on a family member's computer back in 2011, made sure the browser icons were big and front/center, and the support nags stopped. They said they loved whatever I did. I think there is some security-by-obscurity in there too, where all the insane spam/fraud/virus stuff couldn't even work on ubuntu if she ended up clicking on one. Nowadays I take it with a grain of salt: The support nags might have also stopped because other family got scared I would wipe their computer and put this new thing on there they were scared of having to learn.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    Switch to Debian. They don't casually break things.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nl 4y ago
> MacOS ... absolutely sucks at multitasking Can you expand on this please? I'm a heavy Mac/Linux user and I've never found a multitasking problem.
fsckboy 4y ago
> Windows is the only practical desktop OS for most people. I agree except that the more naive among them are always one click away from being wide open to downloading and installing malware, you can't lock that stuff down without making the account very inconvenient to use. Linux, at least it's at least a bit of a pain in the ass to download and install something even if you want to.
AnonHP 4y ago
> Mac is not an OS you can use unless you buy the entire package, and then you have to live with many of its limitations. It absolutely sucks at multitasking (not that most average users care about this one, but anyone coming from windows will struggle). I know that macOS is not very keyboard friendly in general, but I’d like to know more about what you mean by “it sucks at multitasking”.
- aljgz 4y ago
  Please check the messages in response to the comment from andrei_says_

by aljgz 4y ago

andrei_says_ 4y ago

Could you elaborate on the difference between Windows and MacOS in the context of multitasking?

selfhoster69 4y ago
One thing that has stood out to me is that when I have two Edge windows open, for example and I switch to the last used window from Safari, both windows overlap instead of just the one window I was working with.
- hollandheese 4y ago
  If you want to just have the one window come forward use Expose to do it, rather than Cmd-Tab or the Dock.
  - aljgz 4y ago
    Using mouse is both slower, and needs more mental process to do the same task. Especially if you need to switch repeatedly while doing something, you come up with a short-term muscle memory: use vscode, alt-tab to the other vscode, alt-tab-tab to chrome. Now you know the first alt-tab takes you to the most recent vscode, but two alt-tabs take you to the first one. I develop a vscode extension and do this routinely. On mac I need to either use the mouse, or switch to vscode, then use CMD+backtick to switch to the other. Both are much slower and a disruption to the flow state. Apple for some reason avoids giving people too many options. Just one option: "threat windows of the same application independently" with a default of no would make everyone happy.
smoldesu 4y ago
MacOS uses a considerably different window metaphor than Windows does. This isn't bad, but I think it's fair to call it inherently more complicated than the stacking-windows model that Windows uses or the dead-simple "one app fills your screen" model of iOS/iPadOS. At least, that's the immediate problem I've seen family members point out with MacOS.
- musicale 4y ago
  It may depend on what you're used to. Whenever I use Windows 10 I feel like I'm fighting a window manager which is constantly trying to eat up the whole screen, even for simple things like settings. I don't get that feeling on macOS or any of the Linux desktop environments that I use.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    I think that's part of the appeal :) Windows has always had inelegant desktop metaphors, but it's straightforwardness makes it very easy to understand. It's slow, but it's also easier to understand than typing random things into Spotlight and hoping you get what you want. I don't like Windows by any stretch of the imagination, but it really does "just work" moreso than MacOS or Linux these days.
  - nl 4y ago
    I do get that the fact you can't Cmd-Tab between windows of an app as well as apps is annoying.
    - pulvinar 4y ago
      There's always Cmd-` (backtick) to cycle through an app's windows. Easy with the key being just above the tab key.
      - nl 4y ago
        Yes, but on Windows the same shortcut (Alt-Tab I think?) does both and I'm pretty convinced that is better - especially with full screen apps (windows) on the Mac.
aljgz 4y ago
I should say a lot of that is because of the fundamental assumption that multiple instances of an app are related to each other in multitasking. If I have vscode in my external monitor, plus two Firefox instances one in internal and one in the external, than in many ways of switching to the browser, both windows come up. That covers my IDE, and I need an extra click/keystroke to bring it back. One example of many. I've observed many mac users. Most of them are much slower than a windows/Linux user with same level of geekiness. In windows/KDE linux, the window switching is conceptually simple and everyone can learn it fast.
- hollandheese 4y ago
  Use Expose or Cmd-` rather than Cmd-Tab or the Dock if you want the Windows behavior.
  - aljgz 4y ago
    If you are on chrome, and you have two vscode windows, you need to use CMD-tab to switch to VsCode, then see which one you got, if it's not the one you wanted, use CMD+backtick to switch to the other. Using the mouse is much much slower than the keyboard, especially if on both windows you have been using the keyboard.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- brulard 4y ago
  I'm not sure what kind of users you observed, but I have switched fully to Mac (as a developer from linux+windows) after seeing how quick devs can be on a Macbook. Dev conferences are full of macs and most of my dev friends made a transition to Mac and I have not heard one complaining about any workflow speed. Actually the opposite and so is my experience.

RedShift1 4y ago

For multitasking, this tool has helped me a lot: https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/ https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/. Though I still can't figure out why some apps don't work in split view, the window manager just says "Not available in this split view". Split view has always worked in Windows no matter what the app.

charlie0 4y ago
Switching windows is just one thing regarding multitasking though. Are there others regarding multitasking? One thing I have found for myself is that the keyboard shortcuts on Mac tend to be more uniform among all the different programs. I've also found Command much easier to use than Ctrl on Windows. I say that as a Windows user, who went to Mac as primary device, and now splitting Windows/Mac roughly 50/50. The shortcut schemes on Mac makes me a far better multitasker than on Windows (with that one caveat being switching between multiple windows of the same app, which I agree, is counter-productive).
- aljgz 4y ago
  Interesting. Can you elaborate on why CMD is more productive than Ctrl? On windows, usually it's easy to guess what modifier would be assigned to a task. But on Mac, I only need to use memory. In vscode (well that's not an Apple program, but is my main application), Opening documents is CMD+P, but opening terminal is ctrk+backtick. Now, options, is it CMD or Ctrl + comma? You have to know specifically.

bachmeier 4y ago

> Linux is absolute freedom, but that comes with the cost of having to do much more than install, plug and play. You need to be a computer geek, or you need someone else to fix things for you. Hard disagree. Linux works extremely well for the person that only does basic computing. My mother, for instance, used Linux for years. Folks that need to do things like recompile a kernel in 2022 are way in the tail end of the technical distribution.

Dalewyn 4y ago
My own experience with Linux is that it breaks from the most mundane of things, such that I wouldn't even dare suggest Linux to the average person because the tech support baggage that will ensue would be far more expensive to me than if they just used Windows.
- als0 4y ago
  Have to say that Ubuntu LTS with the Firefox web browser drastically reduced the number of support calls I'd get from my parents, who used Windows 7 before. Of course, as soon as you start messing with packages or doing more advanced things, then more can go wrong. But it's really good for the web.
  - jakswa 4y ago
    I have this same experience. I put ubuntu LTS on a family member's computer back in 2011, made sure the browser icons were big and front/center, and the support nags stopped. They said they loved whatever I did. I think there is some security-by-obscurity in there too, where all the insane spam/fraud/virus stuff couldn't even work on ubuntu if she ended up clicking on one. Nowadays I take it with a grain of salt: The support nags might have also stopped because other family got scared I would wipe their computer and put this new thing on there they were scared of having to learn.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Switch to Debian. They don't casually break things.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nl 4y ago

> MacOS ... absolutely sucks at multitasking Can you expand on this please? I'm a heavy Mac/Linux user and I've never found a multitasking problem.

fsckboy 4y ago

> Windows is the only practical desktop OS for most people. I agree except that the more naive among them are always one click away from being wide open to downloading and installing malware, you can't lock that stuff down without making the account very inconvenient to use. Linux, at least it's at least a bit of a pain in the ass to download and install something even if you want to.

AnonHP 4y ago

> Mac is not an OS you can use unless you buy the entire package, and then you have to live with many of its limitations. It absolutely sucks at multitasking (not that most average users care about this one, but anyone coming from windows will struggle). I know that macOS is not very keyboard friendly in general, but I’d like to know more about what you mean by “it sucks at multitasking”.

aljgz 4y ago
Please check the messages in response to the comment from andrei_says_