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‘We don’t have to feel like prey’: the female joggers running with guns
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- LatteLazy 4y agoThe safer we get, the more people fear, the more they seek reassuring but useless things like guns...
- coldtea 4y agoIt's a solution sure. Doesn't sound like the solution of a functional societal environment though (for one, a functional one, wouldn't have that issue or it would be very very rare)
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- DoctorOW 4y ago> when looking at data regarding defensive gun use in the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), there was no evidence that gun use reduced the likelihood of injury during attacks on women. That's my perspective too. I'm a woman who lives alone, and has no vehicle. Right now, I specifically avoided getting a gun. A friend gave me a knife I have no intention of ever using, maybe carrying it as a "pick a new target" kind of message. Obviously I'd love to feel more safe but I've yet to be convinced more firepower is actually effective at protecting me.
- nprateem 4y agoI was always told that you're more likely to be stabbed with your own knife than anything else.
- DoctorOW 4y agoThe same is true of being shot with your own gun
- chitowneats 4y agoI have heard both of these claims frequently but have never been presented with any evidence. Sounds like it could be a "just so" story for gun control advocates.
- 42e6e8c8-f7b8-4 4y agoThere's a YouTube channel devoted to analyzing actual footage of violent, mostly gun related crimes. "Active Self Protection" https://m.youtube.com/c/ActiveSelfProtection https://m.youtube.com/c/ActiveSelfProtection A pattern you see is that simply _having_ a gun is a massive massive deterrent. When the victim finds an opportunity to counter ambush, they can very frequently prevail. If they practice even a little they will be more skilled than most criminals, who don't even know how to hold a gun many times.
- DoctorOW 4y ago> A pattern you see is that simply _having_ a gun is a massive massive deterrent. I think that's true of having any weapon. So a gun specifically is an unnecessary risk in my opinion.
- 42e6e8c8-f7b8-4 4y agoI'm not talking about brandishing or open carry. The most common deterrent I've seen from the the (literally) thousands of violent encounters I've seen on "Active Self Protection" is that criminals start running and scrambling when the victim counter ambushes with their _concealed_ gun, whether they even put a shot on target. The victim should put a shot on center mass as that puts the criminal in "FIBS" mode, "Fudge I've Been Shot", and their shooting accuracy plummets drastically. To the extent that a victim can close the distance and counter ambush with a knife, that could be effective. Guns are a range weapon which is extremely useful in a gun fight. Brandishing a knife is likely to get you shot if you aren't ready to immediately use it.
- emptyfile 4y agoWeather these safety issues are real or imagined, feeling so unsafe you have to do sports with a firearm is a clear sign of a failed society.
- eimrine 4y ago
- igetspam 4y agoYou don't need the word "pretty" and the use of "girl" is condescending. Women get punished for existing, no matter the shape, size, age or aesthetic.
- eimrine 4y agoWrong [1], giving link to my flagged comment with my girlfriend's cite [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32950845 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32950845
- kardianos 4y agoOr a society that still allows individuals to protect themselves. A failed society isn't any non-Utopian society.
- igetspam 4y agoChoosing to protect oneself and feeling compelled to because of the potential for very real danger are not the same things. Running with a handgun is uncomfortable. The amount of work women feel they need to put in to simply exist in the world and out ability to dismiss it in ways that can only be described as victim blaming, is quite impressive.
- kardianos 4y agoI didn't make any truth claim that this was good, just that it isn't what I would call a failed state. What would be worse then either is the city being dangerous and firearms are forbidden.
- hairofadog 4y agoMy sister turned me on to these, designed for this use case: https://goguarded.com/ https://goguarded.com/ Lots of folks on the internet seem to think this is the best pepper spray: https://pompepperspray.com/ https://pompepperspray.com/
- syntaxing 4y agoWhat’s the difference between Pom and saber?
- hairofadog 4y agoThanks… When I was researching it I found both Pom and saber to be well regarded and I went with Pom but couldn’t remember the name of the other one. So yes, Saber is also well reviewed.
- ghostoftiber 4y agotl;dr take an actual training class in self-defense. I did and I highly recommend it. Please don't use nylon "knives" for self defence. A quick google will show you that they're advertised as "perfect for cakes and won't scratch your cookware" which also means they're not going to scratch an attacker either unless you're being attacked by the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. Mace is better than nothing, but people hopped up on drugs aren't going to be immediately feeling that pain. If they're not on drugs, great! But its sort of like when you've tied a few on and go to Taco Bell, it's not immediately a bad idea. People who aren't feeling the pain still can be incapacitated by mace if you get it in their eyes, but otherwise, you need to use it before they close the distance. Once they're on you, everyone gets affected by Spicy Air, and if they're on drugs, you're probably hurting yourself just as much as you're hurting them.
- mizzack 4y agoNylon knives aren't scratchy, they are stabby.
- chasd00 4y agoThe one time I was mugged i got sucker punched from behind right behind the jaw. I went down like a load of bricks and it was a full 3 to 5 seconds before I even knew what was happening. By the time I had my wits back 4 guys had me pinned, beating me up, and going through my pockets. I could have had pistols in both hands and it wouldn’t have made any difference. I think there’s a place for concealed carry but I doubt it helps much with the kinds of ambush attacks joggers see. (I was skateboarding in Deep Ellum (neighborhood in Dallas TX) when I was mugged)
- BlameKaneda 4y agoNew business idea: Wearable that sends out a shockwave if the user gets attacked. The user could adjust its sensitivity, i.e. if they're attacked from a certain angle or they're hit with a certain amount of force. I'm mostly kidding, but if you're attacked from an unsuspecting angle then no amount of armaments will protect you from that first punch.
- spywaregorilla 4y agoSo armor, basically, repelling the fist with the good old normal force.
- wrp 4y agoI have been mugged, in dangerous places, as a young adult. I think that being armed in those situations would have greatly increased my chances of being more seriously harmed. Those experiences taught me to be more aware of potentially dangerous situations. Although I'm not against personal firearms in principle, I believe that teaching greater awareness rather than arming is a more productive approach to safety.
- krageon 4y agoMore weapons in any conflict only lead to less safety, not more. I've been trying for a lot of years to tell US gun proponents this but I have never managed to have it land.
- serverholic 4y agoFirst of all, I am in no way blaming women if a man does something bad to them. What’s interesting to me is that gender dynamics create a sort of predator/prey dynamic. Specifically I’m talking about how men are generally required to do all of the initiating. I think it trains men to push for what they want because that’s the only way romantic and sexual interactions happen. Sometimes, it’s even expected that the man not ask for consent. I’m talking about men “going for” a kiss at the end of the first date. It’s generally expected that the man go for it without asking. It’s like sexual assault is baked into the dating ritual! I can’t help but wonder if we’d be better off if we got rid of this dynamic. Like if we expected men and women to both initiate instead of women being taught to wait for men to pursue them.
- ravenstine 4y agoI'm not sure the word "trained" is that appropriate. The last handful of generations of men have been failed by their male elders in terms of learning how to successfully interact with women, or so much as how to do basic home repair. To say that men adapt to push for what they want makes more sense because either they figure it out or they don't. The need to take initiative with women is not a figment. > I can’t help but wonder if we’d be better off if we got rid of this dynamic. The vast majority men don't push, at least not in a way that is predatory. To further disarm men over the small minority of predatory (and possibly more reproductively successful) men would not be helpful even to women. > Like if we expected men and women to both initiate instead of women being taught to wait for men to pursue them. Good luck with that. This completely dismisses women as actual physical beings with their own behaviors and interests as opposed to a figment. Why exactly would women not wait for men to pursue them? Women only have so many opportunities to bear children, whereas men can theoretically impregnate 100s of women for the 9 months that a single woman is pregnant. What incentive does a woman have to give away her eggs to men who don't go out of their way to show they are willing to commit? What incentive do women have when the sexual encounters are far more available to them than the other way around on average? If a man doesn't have the courage to go up against all odds, including her initial rejection of him, then how likely will he succeed at defending her while she's pregnant and vulnerable? Not only is there no incentive for women to pursue men, but they've not had this incentive for millions of years. Some part of that dynamic is baked, as is the male propensity for violence.
- notacoward 4y ago“I feel like I can move in the world and do normal things without fear. I wonder if that’s what a man feels, as he’s lacing up for a run?” Yeah, pretty much. I'm never as aware of my own privilege as when I'm running alone, in strange places at odd hours with poor light. Even under ideal conditions, there's a definite pattern of male solo runners and women in pairs. This experience has probably opened my eyes more than any other wrt how women experience the world differently.
- stillkicking 4y ago
- igetspam 4y agoMen are victims of men. Women are victims of men. On a rare occasion, women are the ones doing the violence but they are the exception. See if you can spot the pattern.
- fluoridation 4y agoAre you implying that since most violence is committed by men, that a man who is victimized by another man is more deserving of it than a woman who is victimized by a man? Because otherwise I don't see how the gender of the aggressor is relevant.
- igetspam 4y agoNot at all, just that the "men are victims of violence too" whiney bullshit is not a useful conversation when talking about violence toward women by men. It's stupid and it takes away from the conversation and the only correlation between the two is the gender of the perpetrator. Women are targets because they're women. Men aren't targeted because of a shared immutable trait. They may have other things about them that someone doesn't like and some of those things may be immutable but the "men hurt men too" line is stupid, takes away from the important conversation we're not having enough and is basically a whataboutism. The people complaining about violence against men only seem to show up in force when talking about violence against women.
- QuadmasterXLII 4y agoA gun can protect you in one of two ways: shoot first, or shoot second.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- fareesh 4y agoSeveral of my friends from India who immigrated to some of the bigger cities in the USA (New York, Chicago, LA) have had their first real-life encounters with criminals after being alive for 30+ years. I last visited NYC in the mid-late 2000s. The second time I visited, I remember RNC convention was in Madison Square Garden, close to where I was staying, and there were a bunch of angry, but comparatively civil Democrats outside. The NYPD was handling things and it was extremely well managed. The last time I visited was around 2010, things weren't too different then either. Compared to the scenes I see on TV and in videos these days - those days seem another era altogether. I watch the great Louis Rossman ride around on his bike and do livestreams quite often. The overall climate has become far more angry/violent, and the cities - particularly NYC, seem to have deteriorated extensively. Anecdotally, crime in general seems to have become a massive problem in US cities.
- azemetre 4y agoThis feels like fear mongering to me. Current crime levels are no where near to what they were during heights of the 80s. It feels like cities are a victim of their own success. If you had prolonged periods of low crime, any sudden increase is going to look “scary.” For example, jumping from 5 muggings to 10 is 100% increase but holistically how do those numbers fare? Turns out very well, but if you were to listen to the media you’d think NYC was some 80s Kurt Russel film.
- Spartan-S63 4y agoAdditionally, suburban and rural crime is rising just as quickly as urban crime. This isn't just an urban problem or an argument that dense cities are bad. It's simply that crime is rising in this time of social and economic uncertainty coming out of the COVID-19 pandemic.
- google234123 4y agoI would say fear mongering is worth it if it helps reduce crime. There is now a large swath of people (many of them politicians and prosecutors) that seem to care and talk more about criminals than the actual victims.
- Fricken 4y agoI live in Alberta, and occasionally encounter Rachel Notley, the former leader of the province and current leader of the NDP party while out for a jog. In spite of having received many death threats, she often runs alone, unarmed and without a security detail.
- ipodopt 4y agoIf you had to bring one thing on a jog for protection it should be a well trained dog. It can deter, warn, and respond to an attack. A concealed carry only does the last thing, increase your ability to respond to an attack. Also, the dog is arguable a more enjoyable companion on the run. Counter argument would be that the dog is a lot of maintenance. An open carry in addition to the dog would probably keep you safe outside a war zone.