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'Soleus pushup' fuels metabolism for hours while sitting

319 points by lend000 4y ago

lend000 4y ago
Curious if anyone here had additional context around this. Do calf raises have a similar effect? Do people with a habit of bouncing their calves while seated (essentially a soleus pushup as described in the article) have higher metabolisms on average? It makes sense that a part of a calf muscle could have exceptional endurance, given the importance of walking in humans, but the article seems to say walking doesn't use it enough to activate the same effect. Maybe running? The article makes some big claims and it would be interesting to see an independent review.
- digdugdirk 4y ago
  Not sure about the specific differences in glucose utilization between the soleus and the gasctroc (the other main calf muscle) but in general, yes. Calf raises should have a similar effect. The key factor seems to be the soleus doesn't fatigue as quickly, allowing this to be sustained to a point where the muscle energy source shifts to a more long term type of fuel. As for people who bounce their calves? Absolutely - this is called NEAT (Non Exercise Activity Thermogenesis) in scientific research. Its lumped in with general movement - walking, climbing stairs, etc. This can account for a few hundred calories per day. Here's an overview study that claims up to 350 calories per day: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6058072/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6058072/
- notyourday 4y ago
  > Do calf raises have a similar effect? Unlikely as untrained person would have a very hard time doing 50 calf raises
- urubu 4y ago
  Standing calf raises train the gastrocnemius and the soleus. Many gyms also have a seated calf raise machine which is meant to isolate the soleus. I don't think I ever felt anything special after using it.
  - digdugdirk 4y ago
    You'd know if you had isolated the soleus. It feels weirdly (but noticeably) different to activating the gastroc. Much deeper and more centralized.
jollyllama 4y ago
So just tap your foot in a weird way and you can keep your metabolism high?
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Yes. It's just simulated fidgeting which has been demonstrated to burn a meaningful amount of calories.
  - jollyllama 4y ago
    I'm reminded of those under desk fitness bikes.
- layer8 4y ago
  “How to lose weight with this one weird trick.”
- notyourday 4y ago
  ... which works as long as one does not consume more calories that the total amount of calories one burns (i.e. is in a caloric deficit). The real issue is that individuals who suffer from excessive weight tend to be in a caloric surplus
  - jollyllama 4y ago
    It wouldn't be much of a metabolism trick at all if it doesn't work in ketosis or fasting. If you can burn fat, it should still work.
    - notyourday 4y ago
      > It wouldn't be much of a metabolism trick at all if it doesn't work in ketosis or fasting. If you can burn fat, it should still work. Body will always switch to burning mostly fat after a prolonged period of physical activity which studies suggest for moderate level of constant physical activity happens somewhere around 90 minute mark. There are no magic bullets.
ibrahimsow1 4y ago
I don't understand the physical motion. Simply raising the heel whilst sitting?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- lapetitejort 4y ago
  I think it's more complicated based on the article: > "...It’s a very specific movement that right now requires wearable technology and experience to optimize the health benefits.” So it sounds like the performer may have to look at a graph to see that the right motion has been achieved? This video reinforces the notion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE
- grahamplace 4y ago
  From the article: > In brief, while seated with feet flat on the floor and muscles relaxed, the heel rises while the front of the foot stays put. When the heel gets to the top of its range of motion, the foot is passively released to come back down.
- ivansavz 4y ago
  See this video at t=34 secs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE&t=34s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE&t=34s Seems pretty simple... I guess what is special is (1) you can do it while sitting, and (2) the muscle doesn't seem to get tired so you can do it all day.
- kentlyons 4y ago
  I went looking at the published paper (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004222011415/pdfft?md5=648d9447d62c6ef8ca5301cc018f8e95&pid=1-s2.0-S2589004222011415-main.pdf https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S258900422...) and it says on pg3: "this specific type of plantarflexion because the relatively high soleus electromyography (EMG) on-time (i.e., soleus activation) coincided with upward angular motion of the ankle". The supplementary materials show EMG and range of motion graphs. A bit of googling says plantar flexion is the same muscle movement needed for pushing the accelerator pedal while driving or ballet dancers standing on their toes. My guess (not my field of expertise) is the muscle is activated strongly in isolation (the toe pushing down motion) and inducing a large range of motion. So it's not raising the heel so much as pushing the toe down.
version_five 4y ago
“We never dreamed that this muscle has this type of capacity. It's been inside our bodies all along, but no one ever investigated how to use it to optimize our health, until now,” said Hamilton. “When activated correctly, the soleus muscle can raise local oxidative metabolism to high levels for hours, not just minutes, and does so by using a different fuel mixture.” I'm can't evaluate the claims, but this kind of language makes me suspicious. Is this some whole new phenomenon or are there existing, known effects that this somehow parallels?
- digdugdirk 4y ago
  There are people who train their entire bodies to function on different biochemical processes, generally long distance endurance athletes training to perform in a fat adapted state for ultramarathons and the like. The research here just seems to suggest that the soleus muscle itself has a lower "barrier to entry" before utilizing different energy sources (blood glucose and fat oxidation) which allows it to sustain activity for a longer time duration. This makes sense, as the soleus is highly involved in walking, and humans basically evolved to walk more than we've evolved to do anything else.
- soperj 4y ago
  I wonder if there is some kind of unintended consequences to using that fuel mixture...
  - 762236 4y ago
    No, we're designed to do it in all of our skeletal muscle
spywaregorilla 4y ago
This is just leg bouncing right? Like sitting in a chair and moving your leg up and down? The thing that people yell at you for because it's annoying and rumbles the table and the car and the chairs? edit: yes it is. it's shown in the first ten seconds of the video.
- klyrs 4y ago
  Work from home, nobody will know how much your legs are quaking if your camera isn't mechanically linked to them...
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    I've been called out for shaking my camera resting on the table actually.
    - klyrs 4y ago
      That counts as mechanical linkage. My camera and monitor are attached to the wall, not my desk, for precisely this reason.
- croes 4y ago
  “The soleus pushup looks simple from the outside, but sometimes what we see with our naked eye isn't the whole story. It’s a very specific movement that right now requires wearable technology and experience to optimize the health benefits”
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    This statement applies to pretty much every form of physical activity though
- twobitshifter 4y ago
  The article says you need special training and it’s not just fidgeting. I’m not sure what to make of that.
neilknowsbest 4y ago
As an aside, the web page for this story shows pictures of a study participant seated in front of a big monitor displaying their vitals. I don't know much about study design, but I feel like that would confound results.
- thebeardisred 4y ago
  It looked to me as if it was a biofeedback system for the purpose of aiding the individual in isolating the correct muscle movement(s).
swamp40 4y ago
> Instead of breaking down glycogen, the soleus can use other types of fuels such as blood glucose and fats. Glycogen is normally the predominant type of carbohydrate that fuels muscular exercise. > When the SPU was tested, the whole-body effects on blood chemistry included a 52% improvement in the excursion of blood glucose (sugar) and 60% less insulin requirement over three hours after ingesting a glucose drink. That's amazing if it is true.
- debacle 4y ago
  Not a biologist, but I would wonder why only this muscle would be capable of this. Metabolizing fats is a complex process.
  - kiba 4y ago
    If you do aerobic exercise, you metabolize fat.
    - debacle 4y ago
      But in a muscle? That seems to be the argument here, unless it's just bad journalism.
  - swamp40 4y ago
    Might have something to do with the "need for speed". Running further than your glycogen alone can take you - increases your survival odds.
  - porpoisemonkey 4y ago
    Also not a biologist - just an enthusiastic layman. The Soleus muscle (Soleal pump) is partially responsible for helping to return blood from your legs back up to your heart while upright. [1] This is a fairly critical process so it would make sense that it would be able to metabolize multiple energy sources. [1] https://www.physio-pedia.com/Soleus https://www.physio-pedia.com/Soleus
    - 4y ago
cardosof 4y ago
So if I activate this tiny muscle in my calf for a while my metabolism will be up for hours? And where all that added energy will go? I don't know a thing in this area but I know that when something looks too good to be true, it probably isn't.
- zaven 4y ago
  No I think what they’re saying is if you do this exercise for hours while seated, you will have the increased metabolism and its benefits the whole time without getting tired.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  > when something looks too good to be true, it probably isn't. Is that a typo or are you a very lucky individual?
  - anikan_vader 4y ago
    >> It probably isn't [true].
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    I think they mean, when something looks too good to be true, it probably isn't [true] (though that's not how the phrase is normally used, of course).
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - Tao3300 4y ago
    It's definitely one of those phrases that makes more sense spoken aloud.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- skjoldr 4y ago
  Heat, obviously. Thermogenesis.
AlexMuir 4y ago
This seems very close to the motion of rapid skipping. Once one can skip without jumping like a kangaroo it becomes almost effortless but also gets a good sweat on.
- toss1 4y ago
  The article & vid makes the specific point that this is NOT like walking or running (although skipping was not mentioned). It seems that they are trying to get the muscle to contract while NOT under load. A key seems to be that the muscle normally is setup to resist a load and so not change length while activated, and also has an unusually high percentage of cells recruited in each activation vs other muscles (most strong contractions in human muscles recruit like 20% of cells, iirc), so this is to get the full contraction effect and not just a resistance effect. (But I'm just reading into it...)
birdyrooster 4y ago
I am always doing soleus pushups to stim for my ADHD and it hasn't kept me from getting fat or tired.
gitpusher 4y ago
> "Hamilton’s research suggests the soleus pushup [...] is more effective than any popular methods currently touted as a solution [to a sedentary lifestyle] including exercise, weight loss and intermittent fasting." Better than exercise? LOL.
- cheschire 4y ago
  Coincidentally I saw the domain name right after reading that sentence.
- Melatonic 4y ago
  Learn this one easy but weird trick to COMPLETELY counter the effects of a sedentary lifestyle. Personal trainers HATE this!
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  Better than exercise in that most people living a sedentary lifestyle basically get none, and are shit at sticking with exercise regimens. Better than IF in that IF is a crock of wank. Better than weight loss in that most people who lose weight gain it back rather quick. Basically they are saying this is low effort and efficient enough to be better than those options in the realistic scenario of many people being bad at the alternatives
- lock-the-spock 4y ago
  The example patient in the video is rather senior and he seems to aim at diabetics/age-related issues.
- dang 4y ago
  "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
elil17 4y ago
At the end of the video, the researcher says that it's not as simple as just tapping your foot, you need some technology to isolate the motion. Could anyone with a better understanding of anatomy/muscles explain how that works and how they get people to perform this motion?
- ilaksh 4y ago
  First, they get the university to publish an article making their claim seem credible. They then get an investor to give them $300,000 and make a custom order with a factory in China to add another piece of plastic and some branding to an existing device. They wait 3 months and then receive 30,000 "magic" gizmos in the mail. Then, they sell people a $250 electric muscle stimulator that you wear while sitting. Then they buy a really big new house. They live in a city in the United States though so after taxes and paying a few other people off, it barely even qualifies as a mansion. Probably aiming for something like this one https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6503-Edloe-St-Houston-TX-77005/27826640_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6503-Edloe-St-Houston-TX-... which is very nice, but his country club friends who are really rich will compare it to their guest houses. Fortunately they are almost done with the $59.99 app that tracks how much fat you are supposedly burning while you sit there for hours and your calfs twitch. I think this will sell very, very well. People are incredibly lazy and want to believe that not only do they not need to get off their fat ass, they don't need to move anything other than their feet and legs a few inches. Not only that, they don't even need the willpower to move on their own, and in fact it only works if they plug in to a device that does everything for them. Lol.
  - yread 4y ago
    This is very mean! But I did laugh out loud, thank you
  - tiagod 4y ago
    You spent all this time writing a comment calling out this study as a fraud appealing to lazy people, but it seems you were too lazy to read the article and truly understand the device's role...
swamp40 4y ago
Video of the motion: https://youtu.be/yaK6TThRMdE?t=40 https://youtu.be/yaK6TThRMdE?t=40
- kenjackson 4y ago
  It looks like fidgeting, but what you can't tell is if the muscle is exerting on the eccentric or what the intensity is. In any case, I'm going back to fidgeting for the afternoon.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
steve_john 4y ago
earleybird 4y ago
"It's not as simple as simply doing a heel lift or raising your legs when you're sitting or shaking your leg or fidgeting. It's a very specific movement that's designed where we use some technologies that aren't necessarily available to the public unless you're a scientist and you know how to use it." This has a bit of a 'smell' that I can't quite put my finger on.
- dqpb 4y ago
  They're saying it's difficult to explain how to isolate the muscle. For example, two simple ways to lift only your heel from a sitting position are: 1. Push down with the ball if you foot 2. Lift up with your hip/quad They look the same, but are completely different. Do either of them activate the Soleus? Do neither of them?
  - digdugdirk 4y ago
    ^ This. Its not snake oil, its a statement from a scientist who attaches musculoskeletal monitoring equipment to people on a regular basis and knows exactly how capable the average person is at activating specific muscles on command.
    - nibbleshifter 4y ago
      > and knows exactly how capable the average person is at activating specific muscles on command. "Basically terrible". It took me a really long time to work out what exactly the fuck "activate your core" meant. Never mind "activate this muscle you have never thought about before".
  - Someone 4y ago
    #2 I would call a pull up or lift up, not a push up, so I assume it’s more like #1.
- tyingq 4y ago
  Yeah, there's an implied "and if I identify for you the simple way to do this yourself without equipment, my business model goes poof...so I'll just identify two or three things that don't leverage that muscle".
peregrine 4y ago
raises many questions: - what movements was this evolved to support? (sprinting? walking a different way than was studied? running?) - Are our shoes causing us to underuse this muscle? Just from the video and the cadence shown I suspect if you did a slightly quick jog running on your forefoot you might hit that muscle on the rebound.
trynewideas 4y ago
See? Don't skip leg day.
- giarc 4y ago
  Don't skip ankle day.
- Tao3300 4y ago
  Picturing gym bros with massive, vascular cankles now. Soleus? More like swoleus!
notyourday 4y ago
I think this is going to end up being an overblow over-editorialized headline. This looks to be an example of NEAT movements, which engage muscles and therefore of course increases energy requirement. The effect of NEAT on energy requirements of a body is fairly well studies and fairly well known. It would have been far more interesting if it lasted for over 4 hours as that would at least in theory pass the 2nd level signaling. If you are interested in this, I highly recommend Huberman's podcasts such as https://hubermanlab.com/how-to-lose-fat-with-science-based-tools/ https://hubermanlab.com/how-to-lose-fat-with-science-based-t... and https://hubermanlab.com/dr-andy-galpin-how-to-build-strength-muscle-size-and-endurance/ https://hubermanlab.com/dr-andy-galpin-how-to-build-strength...
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
I agree with all the other comments about this - the whole thing stinks of a BS infomercial, for very specific reasons: 1. Are people supposed to do this contraction indefinitely while sitting? Good luck with that. 2. Is this only supposed to be done with an e-stim machine to generate the contraction? Again, if so, it may be an interesting curiosity, but it's not practical. FWIW I wouldn't have such a negative reaction if the whole site and presentation wasn't in "slick bullshit" form, but instead conservatively, and clearly, presented their for findings.
- lock-the-spock 4y ago
  It doesn't seem like a stim, rather it's a biofeedback device. The YouTube video shows quite clearly how they are working toward the right 'curve' of muscle tension.
gcau 4y ago
Having seen the video, it looks like the natural leg tapping motion literally everyone instinctively does when sitting down.
- andyjsong 4y ago
  I've been known to pump my leg rapidly like in the video when I'm anxious. Maybe it's an involuntary artifact to "keep the engine running" just in case my flight senses are triggered.
- gcanyon 4y ago
  I definitely don't do that tapping motion instinctively. Unless I'm actively doing something, I am naturally still. Ten years ago I found out I have Factor V Leiden, which can cause blood clots. Since then I've consciously tried to develop the habit of toe-tapping.
swayvil 4y ago
This could be automated via electrical stimulation. A couple of battery-powered boxes strapped to your legs. It could be quite fashionable.
wturner 4y ago
The motion seems like it mimics what skateboarders do with their front foot when they ollie.
- Tenoke 4y ago
  The front foot in an ollie tilts and slides outwards and up. It doesn't even face or move the same way as this.
kgwxd 4y ago
> When activated correctly... Any chance they found that it's the same activation you get from walking but just kind of left that part out? Edit: Never mind, watched the video. Apparently it's the exact reverse of that internally? Did they test a moonwalk?
pawelduda 4y ago
Sounds amazing at a first glance, but I was hoping to at least see them attempt to describe how the move is performed. Seems like a trailer for something that needs to be unlocked with money.
- petesergeant 4y ago
  > In brief, while seated with feet flat on the floor and muscles relaxed, the heel rises while the front of the foot stays put. When the heel gets to the top of its range of motion, the foot is passively released to come back down. The aim is to simultaneously shorten the calf muscle while the soleus is naturally activated by its motor neurons.
  - pawelduda 4y ago
    Fair enough. I'm guilty of skimming the article, but I saw this: "The soleus pushup looks simple from the outside, but sometimes what we see with our naked eye isn't the whole story. It’s a very specific movement that right now requires wearable technology and experience to optimize the health benefits”, and some statements that made it sound like something requiring specific tech not available to the public. Thank you, gotta say with that description of the move now it doesn't sound that hard.
    - canucker2016 4y ago
      from looking at pics of the gastrocnemius muscle (at the back of the lower leg, main portion from the knee, ending about midway down the lower leg, attaches to the achilles tendon) and the soleus muscle (underneath the gastrocnemius, extending from the knee down to the ankle), the gastrocnemius shouldn't activate during the motion. It seems like you could put your hand on the back of your calf, close to the knee, and ensure that the gastrocnemius doesn't flex/stays loose during the motion.
- elchief 4y ago
  there's a video on the site, but here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE
fefe23 4y ago
They could have tried a bit harder to not make this sound like "DOCTORS HATE THIS TRICK"
Jweb_Guru 4y ago
These claims sound pretty suspect and much more selective journals than iScience have published completely bogus research before. Would like to see this replicated many, many times before anyone starts selling a product whose purported benefits are demonstrated solely from a single research study from a highly conflicted author.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > much more selective journals than iScience have published completely bogus research before. Do you post this under every journal article? Reminding everyone that things have been false before in places?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Jweb_Guru 4y ago
    Not every article. I just find it quite amusing that HN rails against the replication crisis, but when a clearly fishy publication that comports to its iases gets to the front page suddenly it's not an issue.
digdugdirk 4y ago
There are a lot of callouts of "This is BS" in regards to this article. Look at it from a different perspective. I would HIGHLY prefer this to a short press release blurb that allows pop-science clickbait aggregators (or even worse, the "science" sections of CBS/CNN and the like) to have first crack at it. This was produced by the university themselves, and provides a concise yet accurate and detailed overview of the biochemistry involved, as well as a nice short embedded youtube video demonstrating the movement in question and going over the main points of the research. Yes, improvements could be made, and yes, follow up studies will need to be performed. But this is head and shoulders above the "ONE SMALL TRICK, DIETICIANS HATE HIM" alternative we would have gotten otherwise.
- lock-the-spock 4y ago
  Exactly. Essentially the trick is not "use this muscle". It rather is "do this specific movement with this muscle. I can describe it quite simply, but to truly learn it you'll need a biofeedback device and you need to know what you're working towards." There are a lot of surprising skills that we could learn if we just knew how and put in the effort. See e.g. the blind mountainbikers using echolocation to 'see' the path, or method of loci/other memory techniques.
  - Tenoke 4y ago
    >I can describe it quite simply, but to truly learn it you'll need a biofeedback device and you need to know what you're working towards. I don't know, some gifs from different angles would sure have helped more given our lack of devices (though yes, the video does show one important angle). At any rate the complaints aren't so much in the description but in it being yet another simple trick, of which we see thousands and few if any pan out especially to the level claimed here.
  - m463 4y ago
    Related, back in the 80's I tried a friend's small biofeedback device and learned in a short time how to really relax. The device was a galvanic skin response device that looked like a mouse. You put your fingers on it and it would make a tone that would decrease in pitch with less muscle tension. I laid down and tried to decrease the tone and I gradually learned where I was holding tension and how to relax. As the tone got deeper I would get closer and closer to falling asleep. search for GSR biofeedback on amazon (not affiliated in any way)
mikhailyus 4y ago
If the muscle can be activated only by specific equipment, how it survived the evolution? Why is it still in our bodies?
- steve_adams_86 4y ago
  The muscle is activated constantly during walking and running for example; I once strained mine and it took a long time to heal because it fires so frequently. The point here is that it’s non-trivial to activate it on command while sitting. The special equipment is likely meant to activate the muscle for all users on command, making their research far more reliable.
peanut_worm 4y ago
Wonder if this has anything to do with how some people nervously tap their feet
ravenstine 4y ago
> Hamilton’s research suggests the soleus pushup’s ability to sustain an elevated oxidative metabolism to improve the regulation of blood glucose is more effective than any popular methods currently touted as a solution including exercise, weight loss and intermittent fasting. I want to believe in this idea, but all I can say is that's quite a claim. I could believe that it's more effective at glucose regulation than exercise, but to say that it's more effective than weight loss seems peculiar because loss of fat mass (which I'm assuming is what is meant by weight loss) is a result of downregulating how much glucose and fat (insuling being present in response to glucose) can enter cells. Maybe there's a logic to that statement, but it seems to be comparing a cause to an effect. Presumably, if the soleus pushup lives up to its name, it would have a negative effect on fat mass. If blood glucose was poorly regulated, absent a failure to produce enough insulin, fat loss would be a sign of better blood glucose regulation. > The new approach of keeping the soleus muscle metabolism humming is also effective at doubling the normal rate of fat metabolism in the fasting period between meals, reducing the levels of fat in the blood (VLDL triglyceride). ̶I̶'̶m̶ ̶s̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶f̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶u̶l̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶i̶g̶n̶o̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶f̶a̶t̶ ̶m̶e̶t̶a̶b̶o̶l̶i̶s̶m̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶x̶i̶m̶a̶l̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶s̶t̶o̶r̶e̶d̶,̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶I̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶e̶c̶t̶ ̶V̶L̶D̶L̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶d̶u̶c̶e̶d̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶o̶p̶p̶o̶s̶i̶t̶e̶.̶ ̶ ̶A̶l̶s̶o̶,̶ ̶f̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶n̶s̶p̶o̶r̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶V̶L̶D̶L̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶c̶h̶y̶l̶o̶m̶i̶c̶r̶o̶n̶s̶.̶ ̶ ̶I̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶a̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶m̶e̶t̶a̶b̶o̶l̶i̶z̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶p̶o̶s̶t̶p̶r̶a̶n̶d̶i̶a̶l̶,̶ ̶m̶a̶y̶b̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶n̶s̶p̶o̶r̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶n̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶?̶ ̶ ̶I̶'̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶u̶n̶l̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶c̶i̶a̶l̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶g̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶n̶.̶ EDIT: Nevermind, I think I had it backwards. Chylomicrons transport dietary fat from the intestine. And too bad my DIY calorimeter has a broken sensor, because I would love to test myself and see if such an exercise has a measurable effect on RQ.
- wrycoder 4y ago
  I believe that the journal article is freely downloadable[0]. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004222011415/pdfft?md5=648d9447d62c6ef8ca5301cc018f8e95&pid=1-s2.0-S2589004222011415-main.pdf https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S258900422... (pdf) What is this diy calorimeter?
jpollock 4y ago
The "Strengthening Exercises" for the soleus muscle would be a way to target it? Unless it needs a specific interval to get it into some sort of oxygen deficit or something? (From the linked page[1]) Some exercises to strengthen your soleus may include: * Bent knee plantar flexion with a resistance band * Bent knee heel raises (as per the Alfredson protocol[2]) * Seated calf raises Again, the bent knee position keeps your calf on slack and focus the workload on the soleus muscles of your lower legs. [1] https://www.verywellhealth.com/soleus-muscle-anatomy-4684082#:~:text=The%20gastrocnemius%2C%20a%20two%2Djoint,muscle%2C%20crossing%20only%20the%20ankle https://www.verywellhealth.com/soleus-muscle-anatomy-4684082.... [2] Alfredson Protocol: https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-alfredson-protocol-for-achilles-tendonitis-2696560 https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-alfredson-protocol-for-ac...
- DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  > The "Strengthening Exercises" for the soleus muscle would be a way to target it? Unless it needs a specific interval to get it into some sort of oxygen deficit or something? They specifically perform a concentric contraction of the soleus _and_ "passive drop" of the heel. So without more detail of the paper it's difficult to tell but it seem that the benefit is in performing concentric contractions _without_ eccentric contractions of the soleus.
deleted 4y ago
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boringg 4y ago
So when's the product release to provide specific soleus pushups coming out (as I do my soleus pushups at my desk)?
filoeleven 4y ago
> Additional publications are in the works focused on how to instruct people to properly learn this singular movement, but without the sophisticated laboratory equipment used in this latest study. Since everyone’s harping on the previous paragraph and saying “they’re just trying to sell us stuff!!” I figured I should put this quote in a top-level comment as an anti-inflammatory aid.
RobertRoberts 4y ago
Eat a _lot_ less. Exercise (even just a little). Don't snack late into the evening. Be hungry, on a consistent and regular basis. Don't over-eat. No magic, no cost, no special anything. It's not easy, and most people can't do it, but it works. And even if some magic product helps you lose weight, you will still need to follow the above rules anyways. It's like many smokers, they can't quit until they almost die, but then they just magically can quit, cause it's life and death. No magic product/idea, just time to make a change.
pushcx 4y ago
For all the comments wondering what the particular movement and equipment is, see pages 5 and 6 of the supplementary materials: https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S2589004222011415-mmc1.pdf https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S25890042220114... The equipment is an electromyography system with realtime display. It measures the muscle contraction and is displayed to the subject so they can learn to recognize the movement that properly activates the muscle. Contrary to the video, you do not need to be an academic to buy one, they're fairly common in high-end sports coaching/rehab and you can find a cheap arduino-compatible system on Amazon if you want to DIY. If you don't read much exercise science, it's worth noting the paper says "It is important to note that volunteers in Experiment I (Table S1) were typically sedentary (verified with an objective tracking device), and none of them had a high aerobic cardiorespiratory fitness (determined by treadmill VO2max or the maximal oxygen consumption test)." A common pitfall of exercise science is that almost anything works wonderfully on untrained sedentary subjects. Wait for replication.
- canucker2016 4y ago
  But sedentary people are the target audience for this exercise. Athletes worry about having enough energy during their exercise. When many people in developed countries are obese or overweight, every technique helps, especially something for those who don't like to sweat...
  - tylervigen 4y ago
    Right but the point is that there may be nothing special about this particular exercise. It’s a bit complicated to get the equipment and training to learn how to do this; maybe that effort is better allocated to just encouraging people to get up and go for a walk every once in a while.
    - throw101010 4y ago
      > maybe that effort is better allocated to just encouraging people to get up and go for a walk every once in a while. This method has been used for decades and the results on the obesity rates do not seem to be very good so far. Maybe it's time to try other approaches.
ravenstine 4y ago
From the article: So, how do you perform a soleus pushup? In brief, while seated with feet flat on the floor and muscles relaxed, the heel rises while the front of the foot stays put. When the heel gets to the top of its range of motion, the foot is passively released to come back down. The aim is to simultaneously shorten the calf muscle while the soleus is naturally activated by its motor neurons.
- believeme 4y ago
  I want to know if I need to hold the heels high for certain duration of time or keep moving it up and down? I am confused! Appreciate your reply.
alliao 4y ago
wonder if drummers (who may activate it more than others) have statistically significant advantage over others with similar sitting down lifestyle and energy output... big claims, great if true!
- najarvg 4y ago
  In a specific study quantifying energy expenditure during rock/pop drumming, it was found to burn enough energy to qualify as a cardio activity (caveat, small sample size) - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23559410/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23559410/ So there could definitely be come advantage gained by regular rock/pop drummers in comparison with sedentary folks for sure. This assumes of course, that other factors are kept the same (diet, pre-existing health conditions, stress exposure etc) which are incredibly hard to compare in real life settings.
- ordersofmag 4y ago
  I'm a runner who's fairly familiar with the difference in sensation between activating the soleus and activating the gastrocnemius (thanks PT). I'm also a drummer and I'm pretty sure most of my pedal-work while drumming is gastrocnemius-centric.
renewiltord 4y ago
Seems hard to do since your gastrocnemius will just take over. Whatever, I'll do random heel lifts anyway. The calves could use some strengthening.
mmastrac 4y ago
I'm curious if this is the same muscle that causes Charlie Horses. I can activate it on its own without moving my leg and can hold it in tension for a long time but if you flex it too hard it knots and is quite painful. The way that I can flex it: Lie on your back on the floor with your heels on a couch, knees approx 90 degrees Tip/rotate your foot forward and you'll feel a large muscle engage Try and flex that muscle like you would your bicep or pectorals. You'll find that you can hold it for quite some time. Edit: I managed to hold it for a few minutes and it's a very odd feeling afterwards. Almost like I had done a bunch of stairs with no cardio. Edit 2: Standing afterwards wasn't fun - I had to stretch my calves out to walk normally.
- outworlder 4y ago
  > I'm curious if this is the same muscle that causes Charlie Horses. Not sure what you mean. We can have charlie horses in any skeletal muscle.
  - mmastrac 4y ago
    Oh yeah, but at least in myself, they are primarily in the calves.
    - blacksmith_tb 4y ago
      Gastroc[1] usually, I think, or at least that's how it feels for me. 1: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/body/21662-calf-muscle https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/body/21662-calf-muscle
- aendruk 4y ago
  > Charlie Horse I had to look this up. It means leg cramp?
jawns 4y ago
I'm a former journalist, and I'd like to touch on some of the comments about how this article reads like a dubious infomercial, with a lot of outsized claims that are setting off people's B.S. detectors. They set off mine, as well. But you have to remember that this is not a news article. It is not written by someone with any degree of expertise in the subject matter. Rather, it's written by a member of the media-relations department at the university. The only source for the piece appears to be Marc Hamilton, a professor at the university. So what you're likely perceiving is the author trying to hype up something that is inherently pretty boring and technical, and it comes off as B.S.
- cycomanic 4y ago
  Very likely it's not the professor hyping it, but the uni communications office. This reads like a typical uni press release. The scientists typically have little influence on it, they typically read the text that there is no factual errors, but they also leave it to the subject experts (the journalists/communicators) to write the text.
  - wildegorilla 4y ago
    See what the professor says: https://stories.uh.edu/2022-soleus-pushup/index.html https://stories.uh.edu/2022-soleus-pushup/index.html
timothylaurent 4y ago
There's no way that isolating the soleus is somehow mysterious and out of reach of the common person. Just tell us what sort of activation is needed - how long should you do the exercise - we can manage to figure out if we're working our soleus.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
t-3 4y ago
Interesting. I wonder if this metabolic response is very important to human long-distance running capability or if it's just one small optimization among many? Small muscles used mostly during extended swimming or climbing might be worth investigation if muscle-activated metabolic modes are more common.
kwhitefoot 4y ago
The article contains a link to a more scholarly article: https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S2589004222011415?token=2BB8943524C688DCC427D68FF1E2A3DC6CE4FA309E467BBBD6DF8350BEA7531DAC5EDC53C15D63E21DB644B1C1C8088B&originRegion=eu-west-1&originCreation=20220922214021 https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S2589004222011415?...
- hondo77 4y ago
  In case anyone is wondering: "There were in total 25 human volunteers in 2 sequential experiments..." Broken down, that's 10 in one experiment, 15 in the other. No reason to get too excited with such a small sample size.
  - GordonS 4y ago
    Surely it depends on the magnitude of the effect?
_dain_ 4y ago
Since in the not too distant past we walked on all fours, wouldn't the analogous muscles in the wrist also have this ability as an atavism? Or did we lose it
jaggs 4y ago
Near the end of the actual paper (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004222011415 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S258900422...) - "Here we have focused on a method of raising slow oxidative muscle metabolism to complement (not replace) existing approaches." Maybe less snake oil and more a reasoned hypothesis?
kazinator 4y ago
I think the soleus helps to pump blood. Flexing the soleus could be improving circulation, which is responsible for some of the allegedly observed effects. In Japanese there is a saying "ふくらはぎは第二の心臓" (fukurahagi wa, dai-ni no shinzou: the calves are a second heart). Calf-io-vascular workout? Haha.
- canadiantim 4y ago
  A great pun, but the laughing at your own joke is the best!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
ruined 4y ago
it is 2022 and scientists have discovered fidgeting
n-e-w 4y ago
I had a quick scan through the actual linked article [1] but couldn't find the actual SPU protocol? It seems like there are two variations but no details of the regimen (reps / sets / duration). Admittedly, it was a quick look through -- but I'd be really interested to know the protocol. From the YT video in OP it looks like an easy enough motion to learn. [1] https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(22)01141-5?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS2589004222011415%3Fshowall%3Dtrue https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(22)01141-5...
uup 4y ago
Hmm, weird. I've gained roughly 50 lbs over the course of the pandemic. I've been working from home and often work from the couch, bed, or the dining table. I originally attributed my weight gain to the lack of commute, and I'm sure that's part of it. But when I sit at a proper work desk I do something similar to "soleus pushups" as part of my thinking process. Maybe I should start doing these again.
runamok 4y ago
I quickly skinned the article but in a nutshell it seems like the soleus (the main calf muscle) uses more fat and blood glucose than other muscles which primarily use glycogen. Thus using your calves in this specific way can help burn fat. This kind of makes sense as . It agrees with the theory that humans used persistence hunting to run down game and evolved to be excellent long distance runners. IIRC humans usually have about 2000 to 3000 calories of glycogen in their muscles so being able to rely on fat stores becomes critical for longer distances. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting
skjoldr 4y ago
Tidbits from Wiki explaining this from another angle. It seems like slow fibers burn fat better than fast fibers, which makes sense. "The action of the calf muscles, including the soleus, is plantarflexion of the foot (that is, they increase the angle between the foot and the leg). They are powerful muscles and are vital in walking, running, and keeping balance. The soleus specifically plays an important role in maintaining standing posture; if not for its constant pull, the body would fall forward. Also, in upright posture, the soleus is responsible for pumping venous blood back into the heart from the periphery, and is often called the skeletal-muscle pump, peripheral heart or the sural (tricipital) pump. Soleus muscles have a higher proportion of slow muscle fibers than many other muscles. In some animals, such as the guinea pig and cat, soleus consists of 100% slow muscle fibers. Human soleus fiber composition is quite variable, containing between 60 and 100% slow fibers. The soleus is the most effective muscle for plantarflexion in a bent knee position (Hence called the first gear muscle). This is because the gastrocnemius originates on the femur, so bending the leg limits its effective tension. During regular movement (i.e., walking) the soleus is the primary muscle utilized for plantarflexion due to the slowtwitch fibers resisting fatigue."
skjoldr 4y ago
While seated, place your feet flat on the floor while bending the knees so that the toes go behind the vertical plane of the knees. (Z shaped legs basically) Place your hand on the back of the upper portion of the calf, right under the knee. Keeping the foot on the floor and the leg in the same Z position, try to "slide" it backwards with as much force as possible but so it doesn't actually slip. You will feel muscle tension with your hand. That's the gastrocnemius muscle. You can probably contract it at will as well, so much that it cramps, that's the one. You don't want to flex it on either side of the calf. Now lean your body onto your leg (same position) with your elbow on top of the knee. Try to lift your heel up with your weight on top of the knee, while not tensing the gastroc (feeling it using the opposite hand), i.e. avoid trying to move the foot backwards, only lift the heel up. I am pretty sure this loads up the soleus muscle instead, that sits underneath the gastroc. You can feel it tense up if you place the opposite hand around the lower part of the calf, above the ankle, to the sides of where the curve of the gastroc transitions into the achilles tendon. Now this is pretty difficult to do without putting your weight on top of your leg, but I think after you identify the correct muscle it becomes much easier to do without tools. I had some success by trying to push the floor away with the balls of the feet while raising the heel and monitoring the gastroc with the opposite hand. After you do some of those loaded seated calf raises, the soleus muscle tends to become tense and stays tense for a while, you can feel it especially in the lower calf. This is probably how it eats up so much energy. Another way to load these muscles is to sit, bend your knees and spread them out while raising the heels, lean forward and place your elbows on your spread knees, shifting some of your weight on top of them. Then try rocking forwards and backwards while moving your heels up and down. Your lower calves will quickly start to burn, but they take a while to truly tire out. Which I guess is the point. :)
- jaggs 4y ago
  Video needed. :)
speleding 4y ago
I fidget with my feet all day, ever since I was a kid, looks a lot like this. I wonder if that's why I can pretty much eat what I want without gaining weight and without doing exercise?
mdrzn 4y ago
I won't go into the merits of the topic discussed, but the site's design is spectacular. Very impressed, loved it.
jonnycomputer 4y ago
The paper says the testing protocol was 50 contractions per minute for 130/270 minutes sessions per day. Not nothing. But something that you may integrate into your desk sitting for the day (I'd assume some benefit to even less activity, e.g. 1/2 hour sessions).
annieup 4y ago
For people with mobility issues or disability this could be of great benefit if it does what is suggested. I had a work place knee injury which required reconstructive surgery ( not replacement) and am now considered disabled. I also have Fibromyalgia and osteoarthritis. I can not use a treadmill, cycle or do much in the way of weight training. So this has lead to a much more sedatary life....and all that comes with it. I'd be very interested in finding a professional or research project to volunteer as a test subject!
mpcannabrava 4y ago
May I suggest an alternative (more accurate) headline? "Sedentary people who do calf raises while sitting for 2 to 4 hours show 50% less blood glucose than those who just sit. " That's terrible science, a waste of brainpower and clickbait.

319 points by lend000 4y ago

Curious if anyone here had additional context around this. Do calf raises have a similar effect? Do people with a habit of bouncing their calves while seated (essentially a soleus pushup as described in the article) have higher metabolisms on average? It makes sense that a part of a calf muscle could have exceptional endurance, given the importance of walking in humans, but the article seems to say walking doesn't use it enough to activate the same effect. Maybe running? The article makes some big claims and it would be interesting to see an independent review.

digdugdirk 4y ago
Not sure about the specific differences in glucose utilization between the soleus and the gasctroc (the other main calf muscle) but in general, yes. Calf raises should have a similar effect. The key factor seems to be the soleus doesn't fatigue as quickly, allowing this to be sustained to a point where the muscle energy source shifts to a more long term type of fuel. As for people who bounce their calves? Absolutely - this is called NEAT (Non Exercise Activity Thermogenesis) in scientific research. Its lumped in with general movement - walking, climbing stairs, etc. This can account for a few hundred calories per day. Here's an overview study that claims up to 350 calories per day: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6058072/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6058072/
notyourday 4y ago
> Do calf raises have a similar effect? Unlikely as untrained person would have a very hard time doing 50 calf raises
urubu 4y ago
Standing calf raises train the gastrocnemius and the soleus. Many gyms also have a seated calf raise machine which is meant to isolate the soleus. I don't think I ever felt anything special after using it.
- digdugdirk 4y ago
  You'd know if you had isolated the soleus. It feels weirdly (but noticeably) different to activating the gastroc. Much deeper and more centralized.

jollyllama 4y ago

So just tap your foot in a weird way and you can keep your metabolism high?

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
Yes. It's just simulated fidgeting which has been demonstrated to burn a meaningful amount of calories.
- jollyllama 4y ago
  I'm reminded of those under desk fitness bikes.
layer8 4y ago
“How to lose weight with this one weird trick.”
notyourday 4y ago
... which works as long as one does not consume more calories that the total amount of calories one burns (i.e. is in a caloric deficit). The real issue is that individuals who suffer from excessive weight tend to be in a caloric surplus
- jollyllama 4y ago
  It wouldn't be much of a metabolism trick at all if it doesn't work in ketosis or fasting. If you can burn fat, it should still work.
  - notyourday 4y ago
    > It wouldn't be much of a metabolism trick at all if it doesn't work in ketosis or fasting. If you can burn fat, it should still work. Body will always switch to burning mostly fat after a prolonged period of physical activity which studies suggest for moderate level of constant physical activity happens somewhere around 90 minute mark. There are no magic bullets.

ibrahimsow1 4y ago

I don't understand the physical motion. Simply raising the heel whilst sitting?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lapetitejort 4y ago
I think it's more complicated based on the article: > "...It’s a very specific movement that right now requires wearable technology and experience to optimize the health benefits.” So it sounds like the performer may have to look at a graph to see that the right motion has been achieved? This video reinforces the notion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE
grahamplace 4y ago
From the article: > In brief, while seated with feet flat on the floor and muscles relaxed, the heel rises while the front of the foot stays put. When the heel gets to the top of its range of motion, the foot is passively released to come back down.
ivansavz 4y ago
See this video at t=34 secs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE&t=34s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE&t=34s Seems pretty simple... I guess what is special is (1) you can do it while sitting, and (2) the muscle doesn't seem to get tired so you can do it all day.
kentlyons 4y ago
I went looking at the published paper (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004222011415/pdfft?md5=648d9447d62c6ef8ca5301cc018f8e95&pid=1-s2.0-S2589004222011415-main.pdf https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S258900422...) and it says on pg3: "this specific type of plantarflexion because the relatively high soleus electromyography (EMG) on-time (i.e., soleus activation) coincided with upward angular motion of the ankle". The supplementary materials show EMG and range of motion graphs. A bit of googling says plantar flexion is the same muscle movement needed for pushing the accelerator pedal while driving or ballet dancers standing on their toes. My guess (not my field of expertise) is the muscle is activated strongly in isolation (the toe pushing down motion) and inducing a large range of motion. So it's not raising the heel so much as pushing the toe down.

version_five 4y ago

“We never dreamed that this muscle has this type of capacity. It's been inside our bodies all along, but no one ever investigated how to use it to optimize our health, until now,” said Hamilton. “When activated correctly, the soleus muscle can raise local oxidative metabolism to high levels for hours, not just minutes, and does so by using a different fuel mixture.” I'm can't evaluate the claims, but this kind of language makes me suspicious. Is this some whole new phenomenon or are there existing, known effects that this somehow parallels?

digdugdirk 4y ago
There are people who train their entire bodies to function on different biochemical processes, generally long distance endurance athletes training to perform in a fat adapted state for ultramarathons and the like. The research here just seems to suggest that the soleus muscle itself has a lower "barrier to entry" before utilizing different energy sources (blood glucose and fat oxidation) which allows it to sustain activity for a longer time duration. This makes sense, as the soleus is highly involved in walking, and humans basically evolved to walk more than we've evolved to do anything else.
soperj 4y ago
I wonder if there is some kind of unintended consequences to using that fuel mixture...
- 762236 4y ago
  No, we're designed to do it in all of our skeletal muscle

spywaregorilla 4y ago

This is just leg bouncing right? Like sitting in a chair and moving your leg up and down? The thing that people yell at you for because it's annoying and rumbles the table and the car and the chairs? edit: yes it is. it's shown in the first ten seconds of the video.

klyrs 4y ago
Work from home, nobody will know how much your legs are quaking if your camera isn't mechanically linked to them...
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  I've been called out for shaking my camera resting on the table actually.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    That counts as mechanical linkage. My camera and monitor are attached to the wall, not my desk, for precisely this reason.
croes 4y ago
“The soleus pushup looks simple from the outside, but sometimes what we see with our naked eye isn't the whole story. It’s a very specific movement that right now requires wearable technology and experience to optimize the health benefits”
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  This statement applies to pretty much every form of physical activity though
twobitshifter 4y ago
The article says you need special training and it’s not just fidgeting. I’m not sure what to make of that.

neilknowsbest 4y ago

As an aside, the web page for this story shows pictures of a study participant seated in front of a big monitor displaying their vitals. I don't know much about study design, but I feel like that would confound results.

thebeardisred 4y ago
It looked to me as if it was a biofeedback system for the purpose of aiding the individual in isolating the correct muscle movement(s).

swamp40 4y ago

> Instead of breaking down glycogen, the soleus can use other types of fuels such as blood glucose and fats. Glycogen is normally the predominant type of carbohydrate that fuels muscular exercise. > When the SPU was tested, the whole-body effects on blood chemistry included a 52% improvement in the excursion of blood glucose (sugar) and 60% less insulin requirement over three hours after ingesting a glucose drink. That's amazing if it is true.

debacle 4y ago
Not a biologist, but I would wonder why only this muscle would be capable of this. Metabolizing fats is a complex process.
- kiba 4y ago
  If you do aerobic exercise, you metabolize fat.
  - debacle 4y ago
    But in a muscle? That seems to be the argument here, unless it's just bad journalism.
- swamp40 4y ago
  Might have something to do with the "need for speed". Running further than your glycogen alone can take you - increases your survival odds.
- porpoisemonkey 4y ago
  Also not a biologist - just an enthusiastic layman. The Soleus muscle (Soleal pump) is partially responsible for helping to return blood from your legs back up to your heart while upright. [1] This is a fairly critical process so it would make sense that it would be able to metabolize multiple energy sources. [1] https://www.physio-pedia.com/Soleus https://www.physio-pedia.com/Soleus
  - 4y ago

cardosof 4y ago

So if I activate this tiny muscle in my calf for a while my metabolism will be up for hours? And where all that added energy will go? I don't know a thing in this area but I know that when something looks too good to be true, it probably isn't.

zaven 4y ago
No I think what they’re saying is if you do this exercise for hours while seated, you will have the increased metabolism and its benefits the whole time without getting tired.
lostlogin 4y ago
> when something looks too good to be true, it probably isn't. Is that a typo or are you a very lucky individual?
- anikan_vader 4y ago
  >> It probably isn't [true].
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  I think they mean, when something looks too good to be true, it probably isn't [true] (though that's not how the phrase is normally used, of course).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Tao3300 4y ago
  It's definitely one of those phrases that makes more sense spoken aloud.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
skjoldr 4y ago
Heat, obviously. Thermogenesis.

AlexMuir 4y ago

This seems very close to the motion of rapid skipping. Once one can skip without jumping like a kangaroo it becomes almost effortless but also gets a good sweat on.

toss1 4y ago
The article & vid makes the specific point that this is NOT like walking or running (although skipping was not mentioned). It seems that they are trying to get the muscle to contract while NOT under load. A key seems to be that the muscle normally is setup to resist a load and so not change length while activated, and also has an unusually high percentage of cells recruited in each activation vs other muscles (most strong contractions in human muscles recruit like 20% of cells, iirc), so this is to get the full contraction effect and not just a resistance effect. (But I'm just reading into it...)

birdyrooster 4y ago

I am always doing soleus pushups to stim for my ADHD and it hasn't kept me from getting fat or tired.

gitpusher 4y ago

> "Hamilton’s research suggests the soleus pushup [...] is more effective than any popular methods currently touted as a solution [to a sedentary lifestyle] including exercise, weight loss and intermittent fasting." Better than exercise? LOL.

cheschire 4y ago
Coincidentally I saw the domain name right after reading that sentence.
Melatonic 4y ago
Learn this one easy but weird trick to COMPLETELY counter the effects of a sedentary lifestyle. Personal trainers HATE this!
nibbleshifter 4y ago
Better than exercise in that most people living a sedentary lifestyle basically get none, and are shit at sticking with exercise regimens. Better than IF in that IF is a crock of wank. Better than weight loss in that most people who lose weight gain it back rather quick. Basically they are saying this is low effort and efficient enough to be better than those options in the realistic scenario of many people being bad at the alternatives
lock-the-spock 4y ago
The example patient in the video is rather senior and he seems to aim at diabetics/age-related issues.
dang 4y ago
"Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

elil17 4y ago

At the end of the video, the researcher says that it's not as simple as just tapping your foot, you need some technology to isolate the motion. Could anyone with a better understanding of anatomy/muscles explain how that works and how they get people to perform this motion?

ilaksh 4y ago
First, they get the university to publish an article making their claim seem credible. They then get an investor to give them $300,000 and make a custom order with a factory in China to add another piece of plastic and some branding to an existing device. They wait 3 months and then receive 30,000 "magic" gizmos in the mail. Then, they sell people a $250 electric muscle stimulator that you wear while sitting. Then they buy a really big new house. They live in a city in the United States though so after taxes and paying a few other people off, it barely even qualifies as a mansion. Probably aiming for something like this one https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6503-Edloe-St-Houston-TX-77005/27826640_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6503-Edloe-St-Houston-TX-... which is very nice, but his country club friends who are really rich will compare it to their guest houses. Fortunately they are almost done with the $59.99 app that tracks how much fat you are supposedly burning while you sit there for hours and your calfs twitch. I think this will sell very, very well. People are incredibly lazy and want to believe that not only do they not need to get off their fat ass, they don't need to move anything other than their feet and legs a few inches. Not only that, they don't even need the willpower to move on their own, and in fact it only works if they plug in to a device that does everything for them. Lol.
- yread 4y ago
  This is very mean! But I did laugh out loud, thank you
- tiagod 4y ago
  You spent all this time writing a comment calling out this study as a fraud appealing to lazy people, but it seems you were too lazy to read the article and truly understand the device's role...

swamp40 4y ago

Video of the motion: https://youtu.be/yaK6TThRMdE?t=40 https://youtu.be/yaK6TThRMdE?t=40

kenjackson 4y ago
It looks like fidgeting, but what you can't tell is if the muscle is exerting on the eccentric or what the intensity is. In any case, I'm going back to fidgeting for the afternoon.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

steve_john 4y ago

earleybird 4y ago

"It's not as simple as simply doing a heel lift or raising your legs when you're sitting or shaking your leg or fidgeting. It's a very specific movement that's designed where we use some technologies that aren't necessarily available to the public unless you're a scientist and you know how to use it." This has a bit of a 'smell' that I can't quite put my finger on.

dqpb 4y ago
They're saying it's difficult to explain how to isolate the muscle. For example, two simple ways to lift only your heel from a sitting position are: 1. Push down with the ball if you foot 2. Lift up with your hip/quad They look the same, but are completely different. Do either of them activate the Soleus? Do neither of them?
- digdugdirk 4y ago
  ^ This. Its not snake oil, its a statement from a scientist who attaches musculoskeletal monitoring equipment to people on a regular basis and knows exactly how capable the average person is at activating specific muscles on command.
  - nibbleshifter 4y ago
    > and knows exactly how capable the average person is at activating specific muscles on command. "Basically terrible". It took me a really long time to work out what exactly the fuck "activate your core" meant. Never mind "activate this muscle you have never thought about before".
- Someone 4y ago
  #2 I would call a pull up or lift up, not a push up, so I assume it’s more like #1.
tyingq 4y ago
Yeah, there's an implied "and if I identify for you the simple way to do this yourself without equipment, my business model goes poof...so I'll just identify two or three things that don't leverage that muscle".

peregrine 4y ago

raises many questions: - what movements was this evolved to support? (sprinting? walking a different way than was studied? running?) - Are our shoes causing us to underuse this muscle? Just from the video and the cadence shown I suspect if you did a slightly quick jog running on your forefoot you might hit that muscle on the rebound.

trynewideas 4y ago

See? Don't skip leg day.

giarc 4y ago
Don't skip ankle day.
Tao3300 4y ago
Picturing gym bros with massive, vascular cankles now. Soleus? More like swoleus!

notyourday 4y ago

I think this is going to end up being an overblow over-editorialized headline. This looks to be an example of NEAT movements, which engage muscles and therefore of course increases energy requirement. The effect of NEAT on energy requirements of a body is fairly well studies and fairly well known. It would have been far more interesting if it lasted for over 4 hours as that would at least in theory pass the 2nd level signaling. If you are interested in this, I highly recommend Huberman's podcasts such as https://hubermanlab.com/how-to-lose-fat-with-science-based-tools/ https://hubermanlab.com/how-to-lose-fat-with-science-based-t... and https://hubermanlab.com/dr-andy-galpin-how-to-build-strength-muscle-size-and-endurance/ https://hubermanlab.com/dr-andy-galpin-how-to-build-strength...

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

I agree with all the other comments about this - the whole thing stinks of a BS infomercial, for very specific reasons: 1. Are people supposed to do this contraction indefinitely while sitting? Good luck with that. 2. Is this only supposed to be done with an e-stim machine to generate the contraction? Again, if so, it may be an interesting curiosity, but it's not practical. FWIW I wouldn't have such a negative reaction if the whole site and presentation wasn't in "slick bullshit" form, but instead conservatively, and clearly, presented their for findings.

lock-the-spock 4y ago
It doesn't seem like a stim, rather it's a biofeedback device. The YouTube video shows quite clearly how they are working toward the right 'curve' of muscle tension.

gcau 4y ago

Having seen the video, it looks like the natural leg tapping motion literally everyone instinctively does when sitting down.

andyjsong 4y ago
I've been known to pump my leg rapidly like in the video when I'm anxious. Maybe it's an involuntary artifact to "keep the engine running" just in case my flight senses are triggered.
gcanyon 4y ago
I definitely don't do that tapping motion instinctively. Unless I'm actively doing something, I am naturally still. Ten years ago I found out I have Factor V Leiden, which can cause blood clots. Since then I've consciously tried to develop the habit of toe-tapping.

swayvil 4y ago

This could be automated via electrical stimulation. A couple of battery-powered boxes strapped to your legs. It could be quite fashionable.

wturner 4y ago

The motion seems like it mimics what skateboarders do with their front foot when they ollie.

Tenoke 4y ago
The front foot in an ollie tilts and slides outwards and up. It doesn't even face or move the same way as this.

kgwxd 4y ago

> When activated correctly... Any chance they found that it's the same activation you get from walking but just kind of left that part out? Edit: Never mind, watched the video. Apparently it's the exact reverse of that internally? Did they test a moonwalk?

pawelduda 4y ago

Sounds amazing at a first glance, but I was hoping to at least see them attempt to describe how the move is performed. Seems like a trailer for something that needs to be unlocked with money.

petesergeant 4y ago
> In brief, while seated with feet flat on the floor and muscles relaxed, the heel rises while the front of the foot stays put. When the heel gets to the top of its range of motion, the foot is passively released to come back down. The aim is to simultaneously shorten the calf muscle while the soleus is naturally activated by its motor neurons.
- pawelduda 4y ago
  Fair enough. I'm guilty of skimming the article, but I saw this: "The soleus pushup looks simple from the outside, but sometimes what we see with our naked eye isn't the whole story. It’s a very specific movement that right now requires wearable technology and experience to optimize the health benefits”, and some statements that made it sound like something requiring specific tech not available to the public. Thank you, gotta say with that description of the move now it doesn't sound that hard.
  - canucker2016 4y ago
    from looking at pics of the gastrocnemius muscle (at the back of the lower leg, main portion from the knee, ending about midway down the lower leg, attaches to the achilles tendon) and the soleus muscle (underneath the gastrocnemius, extending from the knee down to the ankle), the gastrocnemius shouldn't activate during the motion. It seems like you could put your hand on the back of your calf, close to the knee, and ensure that the gastrocnemius doesn't flex/stays loose during the motion.
elchief 4y ago
there's a video on the site, but here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaK6TThRMdE

fefe23 4y ago

They could have tried a bit harder to not make this sound like "DOCTORS HATE THIS TRICK"

Jweb_Guru 4y ago

These claims sound pretty suspect and much more selective journals than iScience have published completely bogus research before. Would like to see this replicated many, many times before anyone starts selling a product whose purported benefits are demonstrated solely from a single research study from a highly conflicted author.

pessimizer 4y ago
> much more selective journals than iScience have published completely bogus research before. Do you post this under every journal article? Reminding everyone that things have been false before in places?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Jweb_Guru 4y ago
  Not every article. I just find it quite amusing that HN rails against the replication crisis, but when a clearly fishy publication that comports to its iases gets to the front page suddenly it's not an issue.

digdugdirk 4y ago

There are a lot of callouts of "This is BS" in regards to this article. Look at it from a different perspective. I would HIGHLY prefer this to a short press release blurb that allows pop-science clickbait aggregators (or even worse, the "science" sections of CBS/CNN and the like) to have first crack at it. This was produced by the university themselves, and provides a concise yet accurate and detailed overview of the biochemistry involved, as well as a nice short embedded youtube video demonstrating the movement in question and going over the main points of the research. Yes, improvements could be made, and yes, follow up studies will need to be performed. But this is head and shoulders above the "ONE SMALL TRICK, DIETICIANS HATE HIM" alternative we would have gotten otherwise.

lock-the-spock 4y ago
Exactly. Essentially the trick is not "use this muscle". It rather is "do this specific movement with this muscle. I can describe it quite simply, but to truly learn it you'll need a biofeedback device and you need to know what you're working towards." There are a lot of surprising skills that we could learn if we just knew how and put in the effort. See e.g. the blind mountainbikers using echolocation to 'see' the path, or method of loci/other memory techniques.
- Tenoke 4y ago
  >I can describe it quite simply, but to truly learn it you'll need a biofeedback device and you need to know what you're working towards. I don't know, some gifs from different angles would sure have helped more given our lack of devices (though yes, the video does show one important angle). At any rate the complaints aren't so much in the description but in it being yet another simple trick, of which we see thousands and few if any pan out especially to the level claimed here.
- m463 4y ago
  Related, back in the 80's I tried a friend's small biofeedback device and learned in a short time how to really relax. The device was a galvanic skin response device that looked like a mouse. You put your fingers on it and it would make a tone that would decrease in pitch with less muscle tension. I laid down and tried to decrease the tone and I gradually learned where I was holding tension and how to relax. As the tone got deeper I would get closer and closer to falling asleep. search for GSR biofeedback on amazon (not affiliated in any way)

mikhailyus 4y ago

If the muscle can be activated only by specific equipment, how it survived the evolution? Why is it still in our bodies?

steve_adams_86 4y ago
The muscle is activated constantly during walking and running for example; I once strained mine and it took a long time to heal because it fires so frequently. The point here is that it’s non-trivial to activate it on command while sitting. The special equipment is likely meant to activate the muscle for all users on command, making their research far more reliable.

peanut_worm 4y ago

Wonder if this has anything to do with how some people nervously tap their feet

ravenstine 4y ago

> Hamilton’s research suggests the soleus pushup’s ability to sustain an elevated oxidative metabolism to improve the regulation of blood glucose is more effective than any popular methods currently touted as a solution including exercise, weight loss and intermittent fasting. I want to believe in this idea, but all I can say is that's quite a claim. I could believe that it's more effective at glucose regulation than exercise, but to say that it's more effective than weight loss seems peculiar because loss of fat mass (which I'm assuming is what is meant by weight loss) is a result of downregulating how much glucose and fat (insuling being present in response to glucose) can enter cells. Maybe there's a logic to that statement, but it seems to be comparing a cause to an effect. Presumably, if the soleus pushup lives up to its name, it would have a negative effect on fat mass. If blood glucose was poorly regulated, absent a failure to produce enough insulin, fat loss would be a sign of better blood glucose regulation. > The new approach of keeping the soleus muscle metabolism humming is also effective at doubling the normal rate of fat metabolism in the fasting period between meals, reducing the levels of fat in the blood (VLDL triglyceride). ̶I̶'̶m̶ ̶s̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶m̶y̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶f̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶u̶l̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶i̶g̶n̶o̶r̶a̶n̶c̶e̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶f̶a̶t̶ ̶m̶e̶t̶a̶b̶o̶l̶i̶s̶m̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶x̶i̶m̶a̶l̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶s̶t̶o̶r̶e̶d̶,̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶I̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶e̶x̶p̶e̶c̶t̶ ̶V̶L̶D̶L̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶r̶e̶d̶u̶c̶e̶d̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶o̶p̶p̶o̶s̶i̶t̶e̶.̶ ̶ ̶A̶l̶s̶o̶,̶ ̶f̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶n̶s̶p̶o̶r̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶V̶L̶D̶L̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶c̶h̶y̶l̶o̶m̶i̶c̶r̶o̶n̶s̶.̶ ̶ ̶I̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶a̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶m̶e̶t̶a̶b̶o̶l̶i̶z̶e̶d̶ ̶i̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶p̶o̶s̶t̶p̶r̶a̶n̶d̶i̶a̶l̶,̶ ̶m̶a̶y̶b̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶g̶e̶t̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶r̶a̶n̶s̶p̶o̶r̶t̶e̶d̶ ̶a̶n̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶w̶a̶y̶?̶ ̶ ̶I̶'̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶n̶k̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶w̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶u̶n̶l̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶c̶i̶a̶l̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶g̶o̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶o̶n̶.̶ EDIT: Nevermind, I think I had it backwards. Chylomicrons transport dietary fat from the intestine. And too bad my DIY calorimeter has a broken sensor, because I would love to test myself and see if such an exercise has a measurable effect on RQ.

wrycoder 4y ago
I believe that the journal article is freely downloadable[0]. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004222011415/pdfft?md5=648d9447d62c6ef8ca5301cc018f8e95&pid=1-s2.0-S2589004222011415-main.pdf https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S258900422... (pdf) What is this diy calorimeter?

jpollock 4y ago

The "Strengthening Exercises" for the soleus muscle would be a way to target it? Unless it needs a specific interval to get it into some sort of oxygen deficit or something? (From the linked page[1]) Some exercises to strengthen your soleus may include: * Bent knee plantar flexion with a resistance band * Bent knee heel raises (as per the Alfredson protocol[2]) * Seated calf raises Again, the bent knee position keeps your calf on slack and focus the workload on the soleus muscles of your lower legs. [1] https://www.verywellhealth.com/soleus-muscle-anatomy-4684082#:~:text=The%20gastrocnemius%2C%20a%20two%2Djoint,muscle%2C%20crossing%20only%20the%20ankle https://www.verywellhealth.com/soleus-muscle-anatomy-4684082.... [2] Alfredson Protocol: https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-alfredson-protocol-for-achilles-tendonitis-2696560 https://www.verywellhealth.com/the-alfredson-protocol-for-ac...

DoingIsLearning 4y ago
> The "Strengthening Exercises" for the soleus muscle would be a way to target it? Unless it needs a specific interval to get it into some sort of oxygen deficit or something? They specifically perform a concentric contraction of the soleus _and_ "passive drop" of the heel. So without more detail of the paper it's difficult to tell but it seem that the benefit is in performing concentric contractions _without_ eccentric contractions of the soleus.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

boringg 4y ago

So when's the product release to provide specific soleus pushups coming out (as I do my soleus pushups at my desk)?

filoeleven 4y ago

> Additional publications are in the works focused on how to instruct people to properly learn this singular movement, but without the sophisticated laboratory equipment used in this latest study. Since everyone’s harping on the previous paragraph and saying “they’re just trying to sell us stuff!!” I figured I should put this quote in a top-level comment as an anti-inflammatory aid.

RobertRoberts 4y ago

Eat a _lot_ less. Exercise (even just a little). Don't snack late into the evening. Be hungry, on a consistent and regular basis. Don't over-eat. No magic, no cost, no special anything. It's not easy, and most people can't do it, but it works. And even if some magic product helps you lose weight, you will still need to follow the above rules anyways. It's like many smokers, they can't quit until they almost die, but then they just magically can quit, cause it's life and death. No magic product/idea, just time to make a change.

pushcx 4y ago

For all the comments wondering what the particular movement and equipment is, see pages 5 and 6 of the supplementary materials: https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S2589004222011415-mmc1.pdf https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S25890042220114... The equipment is an electromyography system with realtime display. It measures the muscle contraction and is displayed to the subject so they can learn to recognize the movement that properly activates the muscle. Contrary to the video, you do not need to be an academic to buy one, they're fairly common in high-end sports coaching/rehab and you can find a cheap arduino-compatible system on Amazon if you want to DIY. If you don't read much exercise science, it's worth noting the paper says "It is important to note that volunteers in Experiment I (Table S1) were typically sedentary (verified with an objective tracking device), and none of them had a high aerobic cardiorespiratory fitness (determined by treadmill VO2max or the maximal oxygen consumption test)." A common pitfall of exercise science is that almost anything works wonderfully on untrained sedentary subjects. Wait for replication.

canucker2016 4y ago
But sedentary people are the target audience for this exercise. Athletes worry about having enough energy during their exercise. When many people in developed countries are obese or overweight, every technique helps, especially something for those who don't like to sweat...
- tylervigen 4y ago
  Right but the point is that there may be nothing special about this particular exercise. It’s a bit complicated to get the equipment and training to learn how to do this; maybe that effort is better allocated to just encouraging people to get up and go for a walk every once in a while.
  - throw101010 4y ago
    > maybe that effort is better allocated to just encouraging people to get up and go for a walk every once in a while. This method has been used for decades and the results on the obesity rates do not seem to be very good so far. Maybe it's time to try other approaches.

ravenstine 4y ago

From the article: So, how do you perform a soleus pushup? In brief, while seated with feet flat on the floor and muscles relaxed, the heel rises while the front of the foot stays put. When the heel gets to the top of its range of motion, the foot is passively released to come back down. The aim is to simultaneously shorten the calf muscle while the soleus is naturally activated by its motor neurons.

believeme 4y ago
I want to know if I need to hold the heels high for certain duration of time or keep moving it up and down? I am confused! Appreciate your reply.

alliao 4y ago

wonder if drummers (who may activate it more than others) have statistically significant advantage over others with similar sitting down lifestyle and energy output... big claims, great if true!

najarvg 4y ago
In a specific study quantifying energy expenditure during rock/pop drumming, it was found to burn enough energy to qualify as a cardio activity (caveat, small sample size) - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23559410/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23559410/ So there could definitely be come advantage gained by regular rock/pop drummers in comparison with sedentary folks for sure. This assumes of course, that other factors are kept the same (diet, pre-existing health conditions, stress exposure etc) which are incredibly hard to compare in real life settings.
ordersofmag 4y ago
I'm a runner who's fairly familiar with the difference in sensation between activating the soleus and activating the gastrocnemius (thanks PT). I'm also a drummer and I'm pretty sure most of my pedal-work while drumming is gastrocnemius-centric.

renewiltord 4y ago

Seems hard to do since your gastrocnemius will just take over. Whatever, I'll do random heel lifts anyway. The calves could use some strengthening.

mmastrac 4y ago

I'm curious if this is the same muscle that causes Charlie Horses. I can activate it on its own without moving my leg and can hold it in tension for a long time but if you flex it too hard it knots and is quite painful. The way that I can flex it: Lie on your back on the floor with your heels on a couch, knees approx 90 degrees Tip/rotate your foot forward and you'll feel a large muscle engage Try and flex that muscle like you would your bicep or pectorals. You'll find that you can hold it for quite some time. Edit: I managed to hold it for a few minutes and it's a very odd feeling afterwards. Almost like I had done a bunch of stairs with no cardio. Edit 2: Standing afterwards wasn't fun - I had to stretch my calves out to walk normally.

outworlder 4y ago
> I'm curious if this is the same muscle that causes Charlie Horses. Not sure what you mean. We can have charlie horses in any skeletal muscle.
- mmastrac 4y ago
  Oh yeah, but at least in myself, they are primarily in the calves.
  - blacksmith_tb 4y ago
    Gastroc[1] usually, I think, or at least that's how it feels for me. 1: https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/body/21662-calf-muscle https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/body/21662-calf-muscle
aendruk 4y ago
> Charlie Horse I had to look this up. It means leg cramp?

jawns 4y ago

I'm a former journalist, and I'd like to touch on some of the comments about how this article reads like a dubious infomercial, with a lot of outsized claims that are setting off people's B.S. detectors. They set off mine, as well. But you have to remember that this is not a news article. It is not written by someone with any degree of expertise in the subject matter. Rather, it's written by a member of the media-relations department at the university. The only source for the piece appears to be Marc Hamilton, a professor at the university. So what you're likely perceiving is the author trying to hype up something that is inherently pretty boring and technical, and it comes off as B.S.

cycomanic 4y ago
Very likely it's not the professor hyping it, but the uni communications office. This reads like a typical uni press release. The scientists typically have little influence on it, they typically read the text that there is no factual errors, but they also leave it to the subject experts (the journalists/communicators) to write the text.
- wildegorilla 4y ago
  See what the professor says: https://stories.uh.edu/2022-soleus-pushup/index.html https://stories.uh.edu/2022-soleus-pushup/index.html

timothylaurent 4y ago

There's no way that isolating the soleus is somehow mysterious and out of reach of the common person. Just tell us what sort of activation is needed - how long should you do the exercise - we can manage to figure out if we're working our soleus.

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t-3 4y ago

Interesting. I wonder if this metabolic response is very important to human long-distance running capability or if it's just one small optimization among many? Small muscles used mostly during extended swimming or climbing might be worth investigation if muscle-activated metabolic modes are more common.

kwhitefoot 4y ago

The article contains a link to a more scholarly article: https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S2589004222011415?token=2BB8943524C688DCC427D68FF1E2A3DC6CE4FA309E467BBBD6DF8350BEA7531DAC5EDC53C15D63E21DB644B1C1C8088B&originRegion=eu-west-1&originCreation=20220922214021 https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S2589004222011415?...

hondo77 4y ago
In case anyone is wondering: "There were in total 25 human volunteers in 2 sequential experiments..." Broken down, that's 10 in one experiment, 15 in the other. No reason to get too excited with such a small sample size.
- GordonS 4y ago
  Surely it depends on the magnitude of the effect?

_dain_ 4y ago

Since in the not too distant past we walked on all fours, wouldn't the analogous muscles in the wrist also have this ability as an atavism? Or did we lose it

jaggs 4y ago

Near the end of the actual paper (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004222011415 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S258900422...) - "Here we have focused on a method of raising slow oxidative muscle metabolism to complement (not replace) existing approaches." Maybe less snake oil and more a reasoned hypothesis?

kazinator 4y ago

I think the soleus helps to pump blood. Flexing the soleus could be improving circulation, which is responsible for some of the allegedly observed effects. In Japanese there is a saying "ふくらはぎは第二の心臓" (fukurahagi wa, dai-ni no shinzou: the calves are a second heart). Calf-io-vascular workout? Haha.

canadiantim 4y ago
A great pun, but the laughing at your own joke is the best!
- deleted 4y ago
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ruined 4y ago

it is 2022 and scientists have discovered fidgeting

n-e-w 4y ago

I had a quick scan through the actual linked article [1] but couldn't find the actual SPU protocol? It seems like there are two variations but no details of the regimen (reps / sets / duration). Admittedly, it was a quick look through -- but I'd be really interested to know the protocol. From the YT video in OP it looks like an easy enough motion to learn. [1] https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(22)01141-5?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS2589004222011415%3Fshowall%3Dtrue https://www.cell.com/iscience/fulltext/S2589-0042(22)01141-5...

uup 4y ago

Hmm, weird. I've gained roughly 50 lbs over the course of the pandemic. I've been working from home and often work from the couch, bed, or the dining table. I originally attributed my weight gain to the lack of commute, and I'm sure that's part of it. But when I sit at a proper work desk I do something similar to "soleus pushups" as part of my thinking process. Maybe I should start doing these again.

runamok 4y ago

I quickly skinned the article but in a nutshell it seems like the soleus (the main calf muscle) uses more fat and blood glucose than other muscles which primarily use glycogen. Thus using your calves in this specific way can help burn fat. This kind of makes sense as . It agrees with the theory that humans used persistence hunting to run down game and evolved to be excellent long distance runners. IIRC humans usually have about 2000 to 3000 calories of glycogen in their muscles so being able to rely on fat stores becomes critical for longer distances. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

skjoldr 4y ago

Tidbits from Wiki explaining this from another angle. It seems like slow fibers burn fat better than fast fibers, which makes sense. "The action of the calf muscles, including the soleus, is plantarflexion of the foot (that is, they increase the angle between the foot and the leg). They are powerful muscles and are vital in walking, running, and keeping balance. The soleus specifically plays an important role in maintaining standing posture; if not for its constant pull, the body would fall forward. Also, in upright posture, the soleus is responsible for pumping venous blood back into the heart from the periphery, and is often called the skeletal-muscle pump, peripheral heart or the sural (tricipital) pump. Soleus muscles have a higher proportion of slow muscle fibers than many other muscles. In some animals, such as the guinea pig and cat, soleus consists of 100% slow muscle fibers. Human soleus fiber composition is quite variable, containing between 60 and 100% slow fibers. The soleus is the most effective muscle for plantarflexion in a bent knee position (Hence called the first gear muscle). This is because the gastrocnemius originates on the femur, so bending the leg limits its effective tension. During regular movement (i.e., walking) the soleus is the primary muscle utilized for plantarflexion due to the slowtwitch fibers resisting fatigue."

skjoldr 4y ago

While seated, place your feet flat on the floor while bending the knees so that the toes go behind the vertical plane of the knees. (Z shaped legs basically) Place your hand on the back of the upper portion of the calf, right under the knee. Keeping the foot on the floor and the leg in the same Z position, try to "slide" it backwards with as much force as possible but so it doesn't actually slip. You will feel muscle tension with your hand. That's the gastrocnemius muscle. You can probably contract it at will as well, so much that it cramps, that's the one. You don't want to flex it on either side of the calf. Now lean your body onto your leg (same position) with your elbow on top of the knee. Try to lift your heel up with your weight on top of the knee, while not tensing the gastroc (feeling it using the opposite hand), i.e. avoid trying to move the foot backwards, only lift the heel up. I am pretty sure this loads up the soleus muscle instead, that sits underneath the gastroc. You can feel it tense up if you place the opposite hand around the lower part of the calf, above the ankle, to the sides of where the curve of the gastroc transitions into the achilles tendon. Now this is pretty difficult to do without putting your weight on top of your leg, but I think after you identify the correct muscle it becomes much easier to do without tools. I had some success by trying to push the floor away with the balls of the feet while raising the heel and monitoring the gastroc with the opposite hand. After you do some of those loaded seated calf raises, the soleus muscle tends to become tense and stays tense for a while, you can feel it especially in the lower calf. This is probably how it eats up so much energy. Another way to load these muscles is to sit, bend your knees and spread them out while raising the heels, lean forward and place your elbows on your spread knees, shifting some of your weight on top of them. Then try rocking forwards and backwards while moving your heels up and down. Your lower calves will quickly start to burn, but they take a while to truly tire out. Which I guess is the point. :)

jaggs 4y ago
Video needed. :)

speleding 4y ago

I fidget with my feet all day, ever since I was a kid, looks a lot like this. I wonder if that's why I can pretty much eat what I want without gaining weight and without doing exercise?

mdrzn 4y ago

I won't go into the merits of the topic discussed, but the site's design is spectacular. Very impressed, loved it.

jonnycomputer 4y ago

The paper says the testing protocol was 50 contractions per minute for 130/270 minutes sessions per day. Not nothing. But something that you may integrate into your desk sitting for the day (I'd assume some benefit to even less activity, e.g. 1/2 hour sessions).

annieup 4y ago

For people with mobility issues or disability this could be of great benefit if it does what is suggested. I had a work place knee injury which required reconstructive surgery ( not replacement) and am now considered disabled. I also have Fibromyalgia and osteoarthritis. I can not use a treadmill, cycle or do much in the way of weight training. So this has lead to a much more sedatary life....and all that comes with it. I'd be very interested in finding a professional or research project to volunteer as a test subject!

mpcannabrava 4y ago

May I suggest an alternative (more accurate) headline? "Sedentary people who do calf raises while sitting for 2 to 4 hours show 50% less blood glucose than those who just sit. " That's terrible science, a waste of brainpower and clickbait.