17 ms·

Software engineers paying 75K to get 3 inches taller

103 points by thelastgallon 4y ago

aaron695 4y ago
guiambros 4y ago
> Here's how it works: The doctor breaks the patients' femurs, or thigh bones, and inserts metal nails into them that can be adjusted. The nails are extended a tiny bit every day for three months with a magnetic remote control, GQ reported. What could possibly go wrong? /s Genuinely curious: has someone here gone through the procedure and care to share your experience? I'd imagine the 3 months must be hell, but won't it keep hurting even after when walking, running, or doing sports?
- mtmail 4y ago
  BusinessInsider is summarizing the https://www.gq.com/story/leg-lengthening https://www.gq.com/story/leg-lengthening article. I've read another first-person account of the procedure months ago, it's months of constant pain. As soon as you get used to the new millimeters there's the next procedure for the next millimeters. I wish I could find the older article, the guy said it was worth it but at the same time most of his close friends didn't even notice the height difference.
  - cellis 4y ago
    Not a doctor, but also sounds like a great way to get osteoporosis.
    - pgayed 4y ago
      Doctor here! Fracturing bone does not predispose it to osteoporosis. Bone is dynamic and living. It remodels (and fortifies) itself according to forces exerted on it!
      - bombcar 4y ago
        This implies we can mold legs to be different shapes (for what devious purpose I don’t know).
        pgayed 4y ago
        It's true! We can. In fact, the “bumps” and grooves of bones (https://www.google.com/search?q=trochanter https://www.google.com/search?q=trochanter) are a result of the forces we (and gravity) exert on them.
        vorpalhex 4y ago
        I look forward to scampering around the house on four sharpened bone legs like some kind of horror movie esque spider beast when I'm an old man - it will be an excellent way to terrify the grandchildren.
        _carbyau_ 4y ago
        For some reason my first facile thought was: to add cupholders
        solveit 4y ago
        Not just legs but skulls too! https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/peru-elongated-skulls-shaping-ancient-status-indiana-jones-south-america-matthew-velasco-cornell-university-a8210521.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/peru-elongated-sk...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- philwebster 4y ago
  This is a fairly common procedure for children with different length legs to fix a limping gait. My sister had it done back in 5th grade. She has additional health issues, but once the lengthening process was over, I don't recall her complaining about pain from it.
  - gpt5 4y ago
    Interestingly, it’s a much less risky procedure on Children, because all the soft tissue around the bones will adjust much more easily than in adults (who routinely lose movement range with this procedure). However, it’s rarely done on non-adults except for medical reasons.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - badduckdude 4y ago
    - paulcole 4y ago
      “YOUR LEGS WERE ON A BREAK!” Her potential surgeon explaining the procedure to her.
    - RajT88 4y ago
      That's tough. How did she cope? Mixed height platform shoes? Or did she buy a house on a mountain side?
      - Maursault 4y ago
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwpp6Msd3w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwpp6Msd3w
    - Maursault 4y ago
      Her legs were fine. She was just tilting.
- sremani 4y ago
  If you want to go into the rabbit hole, here you go. https://www.youtube.com/c/Cyborg4Life https://www.youtube.com/c/Cyborg4Life
- armatav 4y ago
  I haven't done this particular bone surgery, but I had my jaws broken and moved forward (sleep apnea) - not painful at all if you have a good surgeon. And in this case, they're moving it bit-by-bit over a long period of time. I imagine some physical therapy and you're all good - the nerves can stretch just fine. Plus, if you know the risks, and you want to be taller - go for it. One life, spend it how you wish.
  - unwoundmouse 4y ago
    this take is actually kind of neat
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    From what I have read, the little by little movement is what makes it excruciating. With jaw surgery, you break it and put it into its final place while under anesthesia. Then the healing starts immediately. With leg lengthening, you are slowly moving a break and this shifting/stretching the nerves. Not to mention there are lots of risks. I say you've only got one life to live, don't risk spending the rest of it limping around in pain for up to 3 inches of height.
- shishy 4y ago
  Isn't that like what they did in Gattaca?
  - OnionBlender 4y ago
    Yes. What's funny is that it looks like Jude Law and Ethan Hawke are already nearly the same height.
  - foobarbecue 4y ago
    Love that movie and have always wondered how realistic that scene was. Pretty realistic, I guess!
  - abledon 4y ago
    In movie it was ankles. this is femurs/thigh bones
    - MetallicCloud 4y ago
      I haven't seen that movie in years, but I'm quite sure it was his tibia & fibula, not ankles.
      - abledon 4y ago
        https://youtu.be/KXmU1Z8PNXk?t=45 https://youtu.be/KXmU1Z8PNXk?t=45 i see the braces on his ankles so i assume it was there
- HyperSane 4y ago
  If the process is done too fast then the new bone is weak.
- thrown_22 4y ago
  Turns out Gataca was a documentary.
ohiovr 4y ago
Sounds like the movie Gattica
- sn0w_crash 4y ago
  Criminally underrated film
  - taf2 4y ago
    I never saved anything for the swim back
  - geuis 4y ago
    Not underrated at all. One of my favorite movies, and has quite a following.
throwaway5959 4y ago
- Arainach 4y ago
  What makes you think this is at all unique or related to the industry, other than being an industry that spits out more folks with $75k to burn than most others?
  - throwaway5959 4y ago
    [flagged]
- ohiovr 4y ago
  I'm a grocer now. Tell me more!
dmitrygr 4y ago
Given [1], this is no surprise [1] https://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug04/standing https://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug04/standing
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jstanley 4y ago
  > in the workplace, each inch above average may be worth $789 more per year You'll get back your $75k in only 32 short years! (Or are those tall years?)
  - dmitrygr 4y ago
    Throw in some dating advantages and it becomes worth it rather fast.
  - xenospn 4y ago
    Does that account for inflation?
denkmoon 4y ago
Desperate to get those tinder matches.
- yazzku 4y ago
  The penis enlargement is still out of budget.
- langitbiru 4y ago
  "A former Bumble product manager says that a majority of women on the platform tend to set a floor of 6 feet for men, which would limit their candidate pool to about 15% of the population." 6 feet = 182 cm. https://www.wsj.com/articles/online-dating-investing-match-tinder-bumble-11657890982 https://www.wsj.com/articles/online-dating-investing-match-t...
  - Psychlist 4y ago
    I think that's hilarious. I have to admit to setting my filter to 175cm just to see if there were any tall women in my area. It wasn't a useful filter. But I did really enjoy briefly dating someone over 180cm, we both put everything in the kitchen up high etc. Plus no bending down to hug her. But counter-anecdote: I visited an ex-gf the other day to borrow something from her new partner, and she actually commented "I forget how tall you are". And it wasn't a positive thing, it was quite explicitly "new boyfriend is my height and it's great". Albeit that's 1.5m vs 1.8m so it's quite a difference. Maybe we need a rule like "half your age plus 7"... "no more than 10% height difference?"
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      4’11” is very short (0th percentile) for a guy. (1st percentile is 156.3 cm/5’1.5”.)
      - Psychlist 4y ago
        Are you using US statistics to go with your conversion to US measurements? In Australia we have several ethnic communities where the stats for stuff like height diverge noticeably from the national stats. So "immigrated from The Netherlands" as a category will be taller by a few percent, "immigrated from China" will be shorter and have greater sexual dimorphism.
tomcam 4y ago
I plan to spend $300K so I can get an even foot taller
- jjeaff 4y ago
  Maybe secretly go to 4 different doctors and then you can get the whole foot in 3 months.
  - tomcam 4y ago
    Ok I lost it when I read this P.S. I did catch the Mythical Man Month reference
pama 4y ago
I wish I were a couple of inches shorter. Hardly any super tall person lives over 100 years old yet many shorter ones do (even after correcting for the height distribution at birth). The heart has to work harder for tall people and eventually it requires maintenance or it fails. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1600586/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1600586/
- TroySpartaaa 4y ago
  How tall are you?
  - pcurve 4y ago
    I think diminishing return kicks in around 6'2"... plane seat, clothes fit, cramped cafe / restaurants, I'm pretty short, but I'd much rather be 6'2" than 6'4".
    - zw7 4y ago
      As someone who is 6' 4", I agree. Not that I'm complaining, but given the choice to pick my height, I'd opt for 6' 2". For pretty much all the reasons you mentioned but also because the world is built for people closer to average height. Think kitchen counters, plane/bus seats, stairwell ceiling clearance, etc. I'm relatively young but have back problems that I partially attribute to my height.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- _carbyau_ 4y ago
  Yeah, I have a kid, I hope he grows to be tallish - maybe slightly over average - but not more. It is rare that being super tall - or super strong - provides a significant advantage. We have engineering for that. But being slightly above average (like everyone thinks they are) can be handy enough for day-to-day without any real drawbacks.
yazzku 4y ago
> "And within Silicon Valley, plastic surgery has increasingly become a way for male tech workers to reach their physical goals in recent years." I guess getting ripped is too mainstream in the bro-tech spheres.
- abledon 4y ago
  getting ripped takes time out of day and/or steroids, breaking your bones and 'automating' the bone lengthening with a remote control device is way more efficient. and they can still work on their sidehustles/startups.
  - Panzer04 4y ago
    "One software engineer told GQ he spent the first three months after his surgery alone in his apartment and ordered delivery food during that time to go from 5-foot-6 to 5-foot-9." That does not sound easier than spending the same 3 months with ~4 hours of workouts a week (which is enough to get most untrained people into pretty solid shape lifting), never mind the other health benefits. I don't really think efficiency is a particularly good argument here :P
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      How much lifting is required over the next 25 years vs zero additional time/effort to be taller?
      - asdadsdad 4y ago
        I'd take a better, healthier life over any surgery to break your bones and be more "appealing" to whatever twisted dating pool criteria, If you want more confidence, work for it.
        abledon 4y ago
        > If you want more confidence, work for it they did, by grinding 1000s of leetcode problems, to get a SV job, to get money, to pay for leg surgery!
langitbiru 4y ago
Previous article about this: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/elaminabdelmahmoud/limb-lengthening-surgery-height-stigma-short-kings https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/elaminabdelmahmoud/limb...
- pcurve 4y ago
  “At every single workplace I’ve been in, there've been several situations where people commented on my height to discredit me entirely as a person.” One disagreement at work led to a colleague snapping at him and rebutting, “Don’t be so sure of yourself, short man!" I hope this is a joke. I'm a thin short man. I bet many women can beat me up if they wanted to. Yet, no one in my long working career remarked about my height.
  - RajT88 4y ago
    I am sure this happens in "Good Ole Boys club" type workplaces. You'd think tech wouldn't have these "old school" type of attitudes as part of the company culture, but you'd be wrong. I will say though, tech companies tend to have it concentrated more at the Exec level than the Engineer level.
  - BurningFrog 4y ago
    That honestly sounds like the guy is annoying, and the people he pisses of sometimes go with the most visible thing to insult him with.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
      That was immediately the thought I had. Most people, except absolute jackasses, won't throw around remarks like this unless the person pretty much had it coming.
eric4smith 4y ago
We are put on the earth to reproduce. In general, women like taller men. Ergo… some guys with the means are gonna try to get taller. However they will be sorely disappointed as to get with the ladies one has to have a lot more going for him than height. Kind, well rounded, able to gather resources, confident, attractive and respected by his peers and society. Also tall. A sign of lack of confidence is not being comfortable and accepting of your limitations so you can work around them. Heck, this is the same as a lady getting a boob job or bbl. And we know how men feel about those fake things already.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- pas 4y ago
  Okay, do you have any data at all? Men don't run away screaming from surgically modified boobs.
  - eric4smith 4y ago
    We always prefer natural everything. Don’t be dramatic.
jmyeet 4y ago
I once heard that if you walk into any Big Tech company and want to figure out who the manager is, just look for the tallest, best-dressed man and you'll be right 90% of the time. This is, of course, apocryphal but I imagine there's some truth to it. This is life in general. There is an awful lot of privilege associated for completely arbitrary characteristics over which individuals have absolutely no control. Work, dating, whatever. This applies to both men and women . The article doesn't really go into why people are seeking this procedure. It would be illuminating to see quantitatve data on this. Is it because of dating opportunities? Work? Something else? Hiring practices are notoriously superficial. Ageism, sexism, racism (eg [1]), etc. Often these things are masked as "culture fit". HR will put lots of processes in place ostensibly to counteract bias but the net effect is really to shield the company with plausible deniability when it comes to bias against protected classes from individual interviewers and hiring managers. It would be interesting to see how height fits into this. Height seems to be a mixed blessing in acting, for example. There are certainly some very successful shorter actors (eg Tom Cruise is 5'7"). I imagine there is some of in software engineering too. Height goes to confidence and confidence will sway interviewers more than any technical competence will. [1]: https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/08/18/name-discrimination-jobs https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/08/18/name-discriminati...
- hooloovoo_zoo 4y ago
  Bezos is short, Zuckerberg is short, Gates is short…. Not the most effective rule lol
  - pcthrowaway 4y ago
    Neither of them are short enough that I'd call them 'short'. Right around average height for all genders. A little below average for U.S. men, but in lots of other countries they'd be above average (racism is possibly an ingredient in this discrimination and subconscious bias enchilada)
    - hooloovoo_zoo 4y ago
      They are 4, 4, and 1 inch below average for white males in the U.S. respectively. I guess one could call Gates average.
gpt5 4y ago
There is a very interesting study that analyzed men and women height preference using a large speed-dating sample. The results clearly showed that being taller increase men chances of getting a yes - no matter how tall you are, and no matter what the woman initially stated as their max ideal height! Scroll through the charts below. The entire article is worth reading due to the solid methodology that removed most biases involved in these studies. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-effect-of-male-and-female-height-on-a-the-likelihood-of-giving-a-Yes-response_fig1_236670565 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-effect-of-male-and-f...
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  My favorite part (from a modern anthropological perspective) of this relationship is while there is a height/income relationship with men’s desirability, the amount of income a less attractive woman needs is an incredible multiple to be competitive with a more attractive woman. It speaks in market terms to the lizard brain of the species and what it values (not to mention that women primarily filter by physical attractiveness upfront when selecting but switch to warmth and other personality traits long term). It is the most raw, brutal marketplace experience imho. https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.61.4010 https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.61....
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    Table 5.4 and 5.5 show that income is nearly a non-factor for men selecting women. It is not a differentiating variable that men factor in at all. Whereas it is an easy lifehack for a less visually attractive man (5.4), or simply shorter man (5.5) to be selected by a woman, if they make more. I don't get the impression anything has changed since that study in 2006. I don't even think the same study could be done now given how broken online dating services have become now. A corollary of this, more related to this forum, is that this is a greater aspect of workplace gender and earning inequality than readjusting the workplace for women. Greater displacement of workers would occur if women were interested in having a lower earning man in subsidy, because many men would leave the workplace for that option. The option of unpaid household and emotional labor that is overrepresented by, and a predictable option for, women. The people interested in that role are probably a more even distribution across society.
ohiovr 4y ago
Hopefully the developers, should they have kids, feed their kids lots and lots of milk and steak for dinner as often as possible so they don't have to troubled by their height.
- jackmott 4y ago
sfvegandude 4y ago
If I were shelling out $75k for 3 inches it wouldn’t be for my height
- badduckdude 4y ago
- pcurve 4y ago
  5'6 -> 5'9' jump is huge.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- smegsicle 4y ago
  just remember- it's what's inside that counts, and everyone has the same three or so inch reach back to the pubic bone
hyperbole 4y ago
Buy thicker sole shoes, wtf
- badduckdude 4y ago
- Koshkin 4y ago
  Women are not stupid.
tyingq 4y ago
Looks pretty painful to me...here's some timelapsed xrays of the device (PRECICE-StrydeNail) in a patient: https://medcraze.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NuVasive-PRECICE-StrydeNail-1024x848.png https://medcraze.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NuVasive-PRE...
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  I've been having my teeth gently massaged straight by steel, for what feels like my whole life. The pain is so constant I've become desensitized to it, but if I stop to feel it's always there. I know it's torturing me on a subconscious level. Would not recommend.
  - badduckdude 4y ago
    > I've been having my teeth gently massaged straight by steel, for what feels like my whole life. Why? Trying to change the steel to yellow in color?
    - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
      I don't know. Parent pressure.
- pcurve 4y ago
  yikes. a whole of pain for 3.8cm
actionablefiber 4y ago
As a short guy, I'm grateful to be gay and in a large city in the West. My experience is that most gay men are very relaxed about my height; if it even comes up they just say "oh yeah, major short king energy" and move on.
- morelisp 4y ago
  This is also the attitude of most straight/bi women I know. The problem is more that straight guys almost universally lack short king energy.
  - actionablefiber 4y ago
    I believe this. A lot gets said about the standards that people of each gender have, especially when it comes to the standards that good-looking people have, but most people of any background are normal people looking for basically compatible partners, with particularly picky people being a highly visible minority. The problem is that ceteris paribus, tall people do have an advantage in the aggregate, and "short king energy" is about having the requisite physical traits (ex. facial hair, body hair, muscles), confidence, and compelling personality to make the cetera not be paria. I also think part of the problem is A) that dating, especially on apps, places physical appearance front and center when it comes to getting your foot in the door to talk to people, and B) a lot of other people are instinctively judgmental about certain dynamics in heterosexual dating, especially when shorter/younger/less successful/less dominant men date taller/older/more successful/more dominant women, and homosexual dating is comparatively a blank slate in terms of how your friend group/family will perceive it.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago
About a decade ago, there was a huge scandal with the Chinese diplomatic core having strict height limits for girls, so there was (is?) a huge market for illegal operations to get taller. But this being China, the underground docs would often screw the operation up, leaving the poor girls with a bad limp for the rest of their lives.
programmarchy 4y ago
Seems like this is only going to help attract less intelligent women, because the smart ones will know their offspring won’t be getting genetics for height with someone who is artificially tall. Full speed ahead toward idiocracy.
- thrown_22 4y ago
  Does the same apply to artificial breasts?
- softcactus 4y ago
  How would they know? Are you divulging the fact that your height is the result of a procedure on the first date? Also are we assuming that women prefer tall men because they want tall children, not because tallness is just an attractive trait? Why would women choose to engage in casual sex with a tall man if their whole goal is to have tall children? Also how does this lead towards idiocracy? If the less intelligent women are sleeping with tech workers, and more intelligent women are sleeping with naturally tall men, then wouldn't we see the offspring of the tech bros + less intelligent women have average intelligence, while the smarter women are having taller, smarter children? There are so many assumptions being made here. I want to know what the conditions in this hypothetical world are. It sounds fascinating.
  - Psychlist 4y ago
    That favours wealth over intelligence, or vice versa. So it's a value judgement - are we better off with more children to wealthy parents or to tall parents?
    - softcactus 4y ago
      I was making the underlying assumption that wealth has some correlation with intelligence (for someone who made money in tech at least) Tech bros need money to get height gainz -> must pass tech interviews/bring a product to market -> intelligence But also there is probably a correlation between height and wealth as well. Either way I don't think that it's anyone's place to determine who should reproduce.
3qz 4y ago
If it was that simple I would pay hundreds of thousands to be 3 inches taller. I’m glad to see this is catching on!
rglover 4y ago
Unreal levels of thirst.
callamdelaney 4y ago
Early enough in your career it probably makes financial sense. According to the guardian, who probably re-produced the figures according to someone else, a 6'0 man will make £100k more over his career than a man who's 5'4[0]. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/money/shortcuts/2015/apr/29/do-tall-people-really-deserve-to-earn-more https://www.theguardian.com/money/shortcuts/2015/apr/29/do-t...
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  I suspect this pay disparity is less significant in software, post-covid, where a lot of people work remotely now anyway. One of the tack-on benefits of remote work is that at least it gets rid of height discrimination for fully-remote positions
- heliodor 4y ago
  In tech, outcomes over an entire career vary much more than £100k.
orangepurple 4y ago
95% of Tinder swipes by women are passes compared to 47% for men. Women tend to date up. Online dating apps are rigged for men. These apps are search engines optimized to match women with the top 5% of men. These apps are designed for women. Being average or even above average will almost never result in a date. Tinder was designed like a slot machine which will ruin your self-esteem from constant rejection but your hope of a large reward will keep you going for ages. You will have a much higher success rate as an average guy simply with a completely cold approach. That is how bad online dating is for men. As an example, a slightly above average man who generates 16561 swipes on Tinder will generate 7666 likes and 8675 dislikes. Out of these there will be 290 matches and 7596 no-match. A rate of 2.5 matches per day and an overall 3.7% match rate. Out of 290 matches he will send 87 messages and receive 12. 191 matches will never result in a message. Of the 99 messages 31 will be left on read or never even opened the initial message, resulting in 68 conversations. 40 of these women ghosted him, and our subject gave up on 17 of them. Ultimately this resulted in getting 11 phone numbers. These 11 phone numbers in 4 months led to 3 dates and 8 gave up on texting, declined the dating offer, or our subject simply gave up on them. All 3 dates did not materialize into anything long term. It was a complete waste of time. Considering that online dating is the most common method used to find a date these days, the options are grim for men who are not in the top 5% of attractiveness if they use these online platforms. Prior discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31823294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31823294
- beej71 4y ago
  I don't think I'm in the top 5% of attractiveness, but I didn't have much trouble getting dates with quality people on bumble. Met someone and it's been going strong for 2+ years. Tinder, however, was a total wasteland. Zero responses to anything. I think it just wasn't my scene.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  > Online dating apps are rigged for men. They're rigged for women. Even on the sites that claim to cater to women by forcing them to make first contact, they overwhelmingly use superficial low effort messages to unlock the other side and then proceed to reject 80% of the men they selected just like with regular sites.
huitzitziltzin 4y ago
There is a great piece on this (IMO) surgery from a few years ago from an author at jezebel (Prachi Gupta maybe?) whose brother did this in Italy and ended up dying as a result of this very surgery. Not worth it for better tinder matches. Also I very very much doubt that the effect of height on income is causal.
- ukd1 4y ago
  Can you find the link?
abledon 4y ago
On which date do you tell your partner about this? Do women do the same for their 'augmentations'?
nnoitra 4y ago
- nnoitra 4y ago
shahbaby 4y ago
I can't blame them.
asdadsdad 4y ago
oh the world where everything can be "fixed". where are we going?
steve76 4y ago
asdadsdad 4y ago
Napoleon was 5′ 6″.
- Koshkin 4y ago
  Indeed, he was even slightly above average male height for his time. The myth about him being short has its roots in the fact that the military personnel, on average, was much taller than the rest of the population.
lucaspm98 4y ago
This may not be as bad of an investment as it sounds... Men who are 5 feet 6 inches need to make an additional $175,000 annually to be as desirable as men who are almost 6 feet. The number increases with shorter heights, with men who are 5 feet, for example, needing to make an additional $317,000 in income. This was in 2006 dollars. Study: https://home.uchicago.edu/~hortacsu/onlinedating.pdf https://home.uchicago.edu/~hortacsu/onlinedating.pdf
tennisflyi 4y ago
I'm 6'1" - it's not some magic ticket.
teh_klev 4y ago
Original article on GQ instead of this Business Insider re-heat: https://www.gq.com/story/leg-lengthening https://www.gq.com/story/leg-lengthening
S_A_P 4y ago
So I am struggling with the connection here. Is it just the fact that tech workers can afford elective surgery? Is this really something that only happens with tech workers?
RadixDLT 4y ago
these people will look t-rex if their legs get stretched too long
0xbadc0de5 4y ago
The future Gattaca warned is about is here, it's just unevenly distributed.
merricksb 4y ago
Discussion of source article on GQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32852962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32852962
rsynnott 4y ago
> I've got patients from Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft. I've had multiple patients from Microsoft. Presumably MS has particularly high standing desks.

103 points by thelastgallon 4y ago

> Here's how it works: The doctor breaks the patients' femurs, or thigh bones, and inserts metal nails into them that can be adjusted. The nails are extended a tiny bit every day for three months with a magnetic remote control, GQ reported. What could possibly go wrong? /s Genuinely curious: has someone here gone through the procedure and care to share your experience? I'd imagine the 3 months must be hell, but won't it keep hurting even after when walking, running, or doing sports?

mtmail 4y ago
BusinessInsider is summarizing the https://www.gq.com/story/leg-lengthening https://www.gq.com/story/leg-lengthening article. I've read another first-person account of the procedure months ago, it's months of constant pain. As soon as you get used to the new millimeters there's the next procedure for the next millimeters. I wish I could find the older article, the guy said it was worth it but at the same time most of his close friends didn't even notice the height difference.
- cellis 4y ago
  Not a doctor, but also sounds like a great way to get osteoporosis.
  - pgayed 4y ago
    Doctor here! Fracturing bone does not predispose it to osteoporosis. Bone is dynamic and living. It remodels (and fortifies) itself according to forces exerted on it!
    - bombcar 4y ago
      This implies we can mold legs to be different shapes (for what devious purpose I don’t know).
      - pgayed 4y ago
        It's true! We can. In fact, the “bumps” and grooves of bones (https://www.google.com/search?q=trochanter https://www.google.com/search?q=trochanter) are a result of the forces we (and gravity) exert on them.
      - vorpalhex 4y ago
        I look forward to scampering around the house on four sharpened bone legs like some kind of horror movie esque spider beast when I'm an old man - it will be an excellent way to terrify the grandchildren.
      - _carbyau_ 4y ago
        For some reason my first facile thought was: to add cupholders
      - solveit 4y ago
        Not just legs but skulls too! https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/peru-elongated-skulls-shaping-ancient-status-indiana-jones-south-america-matthew-velasco-cornell-university-a8210521.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/peru-elongated-sk...
- deleted 4y ago
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philwebster 4y ago
This is a fairly common procedure for children with different length legs to fix a limping gait. My sister had it done back in 5th grade. She has additional health issues, but once the lengthening process was over, I don't recall her complaining about pain from it.
- gpt5 4y ago
  Interestingly, it’s a much less risky procedure on Children, because all the soft tissue around the bones will adjust much more easily than in adults (who routinely lose movement range with this procedure). However, it’s rarely done on non-adults except for medical reasons.
- deleted 4y ago
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- badduckdude 4y ago
  - paulcole 4y ago
    “YOUR LEGS WERE ON A BREAK!” Her potential surgeon explaining the procedure to her.
  - RajT88 4y ago
    That's tough. How did she cope? Mixed height platform shoes? Or did she buy a house on a mountain side?
    - Maursault 4y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwpp6Msd3w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwpp6Msd3w
  - Maursault 4y ago
    Her legs were fine. She was just tilting.
sremani 4y ago
If you want to go into the rabbit hole, here you go. https://www.youtube.com/c/Cyborg4Life https://www.youtube.com/c/Cyborg4Life
armatav 4y ago
I haven't done this particular bone surgery, but I had my jaws broken and moved forward (sleep apnea) - not painful at all if you have a good surgeon. And in this case, they're moving it bit-by-bit over a long period of time. I imagine some physical therapy and you're all good - the nerves can stretch just fine. Plus, if you know the risks, and you want to be taller - go for it. One life, spend it how you wish.
- unwoundmouse 4y ago
  this take is actually kind of neat
- jjeaff 4y ago
  From what I have read, the little by little movement is what makes it excruciating. With jaw surgery, you break it and put it into its final place while under anesthesia. Then the healing starts immediately. With leg lengthening, you are slowly moving a break and this shifting/stretching the nerves. Not to mention there are lots of risks. I say you've only got one life to live, don't risk spending the rest of it limping around in pain for up to 3 inches of height.
shishy 4y ago
Isn't that like what they did in Gattaca?
- OnionBlender 4y ago
  Yes. What's funny is that it looks like Jude Law and Ethan Hawke are already nearly the same height.
- foobarbecue 4y ago
  Love that movie and have always wondered how realistic that scene was. Pretty realistic, I guess!
- abledon 4y ago
  In movie it was ankles. this is femurs/thigh bones
  - MetallicCloud 4y ago
    I haven't seen that movie in years, but I'm quite sure it was his tibia & fibula, not ankles.
    - abledon 4y ago
      https://youtu.be/KXmU1Z8PNXk?t=45 https://youtu.be/KXmU1Z8PNXk?t=45 i see the braces on his ankles so i assume it was there
HyperSane 4y ago
If the process is done too fast then the new bone is weak.
thrown_22 4y ago
Turns out Gataca was a documentary.

ohiovr 4y ago

Sounds like the movie Gattica

sn0w_crash 4y ago
Criminally underrated film
- taf2 4y ago
  I never saved anything for the swim back
- geuis 4y ago
  Not underrated at all. One of my favorite movies, and has quite a following.

throwaway5959 4y ago

Arainach 4y ago
What makes you think this is at all unique or related to the industry, other than being an industry that spits out more folks with $75k to burn than most others?
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  [flagged]
ohiovr 4y ago
I'm a grocer now. Tell me more!

dmitrygr 4y ago

Given [1], this is no surprise [1] https://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug04/standing https://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug04/standing

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jstanley 4y ago
> in the workplace, each inch above average may be worth $789 more per year You'll get back your $75k in only 32 short years! (Or are those tall years?)
- dmitrygr 4y ago
  Throw in some dating advantages and it becomes worth it rather fast.
- xenospn 4y ago
  Does that account for inflation?

denkmoon 4y ago

Desperate to get those tinder matches.

yazzku 4y ago
The penis enlargement is still out of budget.
langitbiru 4y ago
"A former Bumble product manager says that a majority of women on the platform tend to set a floor of 6 feet for men, which would limit their candidate pool to about 15% of the population." 6 feet = 182 cm. https://www.wsj.com/articles/online-dating-investing-match-tinder-bumble-11657890982 https://www.wsj.com/articles/online-dating-investing-match-t...
- Psychlist 4y ago
  I think that's hilarious. I have to admit to setting my filter to 175cm just to see if there were any tall women in my area. It wasn't a useful filter. But I did really enjoy briefly dating someone over 180cm, we both put everything in the kitchen up high etc. Plus no bending down to hug her. But counter-anecdote: I visited an ex-gf the other day to borrow something from her new partner, and she actually commented "I forget how tall you are". And it wasn't a positive thing, it was quite explicitly "new boyfriend is my height and it's great". Albeit that's 1.5m vs 1.8m so it's quite a difference. Maybe we need a rule like "half your age plus 7"... "no more than 10% height difference?"
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    4’11” is very short (0th percentile) for a guy. (1st percentile is 156.3 cm/5’1.5”.)
    - Psychlist 4y ago
      Are you using US statistics to go with your conversion to US measurements? In Australia we have several ethnic communities where the stats for stuff like height diverge noticeably from the national stats. So "immigrated from The Netherlands" as a category will be taller by a few percent, "immigrated from China" will be shorter and have greater sexual dimorphism.

tomcam 4y ago

I plan to spend $300K so I can get an even foot taller

jjeaff 4y ago
Maybe secretly go to 4 different doctors and then you can get the whole foot in 3 months.
- tomcam 4y ago
  Ok I lost it when I read this P.S. I did catch the Mythical Man Month reference

pama 4y ago

I wish I were a couple of inches shorter. Hardly any super tall person lives over 100 years old yet many shorter ones do (even after correcting for the height distribution at birth). The heart has to work harder for tall people and eventually it requires maintenance or it fails. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1600586/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1600586/

TroySpartaaa 4y ago
How tall are you?
- pcurve 4y ago
  I think diminishing return kicks in around 6'2"... plane seat, clothes fit, cramped cafe / restaurants, I'm pretty short, but I'd much rather be 6'2" than 6'4".
  - zw7 4y ago
    As someone who is 6' 4", I agree. Not that I'm complaining, but given the choice to pick my height, I'd opt for 6' 2". For pretty much all the reasons you mentioned but also because the world is built for people closer to average height. Think kitchen counters, plane/bus seats, stairwell ceiling clearance, etc. I'm relatively young but have back problems that I partially attribute to my height.
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_carbyau_ 4y ago
Yeah, I have a kid, I hope he grows to be tallish - maybe slightly over average - but not more. It is rare that being super tall - or super strong - provides a significant advantage. We have engineering for that. But being slightly above average (like everyone thinks they are) can be handy enough for day-to-day without any real drawbacks.

yazzku 4y ago

> "And within Silicon Valley, plastic surgery has increasingly become a way for male tech workers to reach their physical goals in recent years." I guess getting ripped is too mainstream in the bro-tech spheres.

abledon 4y ago
getting ripped takes time out of day and/or steroids, breaking your bones and 'automating' the bone lengthening with a remote control device is way more efficient. and they can still work on their sidehustles/startups.
- Panzer04 4y ago
  "One software engineer told GQ he spent the first three months after his surgery alone in his apartment and ordered delivery food during that time to go from 5-foot-6 to 5-foot-9." That does not sound easier than spending the same 3 months with ~4 hours of workouts a week (which is enough to get most untrained people into pretty solid shape lifting), never mind the other health benefits. I don't really think efficiency is a particularly good argument here :P
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    How much lifting is required over the next 25 years vs zero additional time/effort to be taller?
    - asdadsdad 4y ago
      I'd take a better, healthier life over any surgery to break your bones and be more "appealing" to whatever twisted dating pool criteria, If you want more confidence, work for it.
      - abledon 4y ago
        > If you want more confidence, work for it they did, by grinding 1000s of leetcode problems, to get a SV job, to get money, to pay for leg surgery!

langitbiru 4y ago

Previous article about this: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/elaminabdelmahmoud/limb-lengthening-surgery-height-stigma-short-kings https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/elaminabdelmahmoud/limb...

pcurve 4y ago
“At every single workplace I’ve been in, there've been several situations where people commented on my height to discredit me entirely as a person.” One disagreement at work led to a colleague snapping at him and rebutting, “Don’t be so sure of yourself, short man!" I hope this is a joke. I'm a thin short man. I bet many women can beat me up if they wanted to. Yet, no one in my long working career remarked about my height.
- RajT88 4y ago
  I am sure this happens in "Good Ole Boys club" type workplaces. You'd think tech wouldn't have these "old school" type of attitudes as part of the company culture, but you'd be wrong. I will say though, tech companies tend to have it concentrated more at the Exec level than the Engineer level.
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  That honestly sounds like the guy is annoying, and the people he pisses of sometimes go with the most visible thing to insult him with.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
    That was immediately the thought I had. Most people, except absolute jackasses, won't throw around remarks like this unless the person pretty much had it coming.

eric4smith 4y ago

We are put on the earth to reproduce. In general, women like taller men. Ergo… some guys with the means are gonna try to get taller. However they will be sorely disappointed as to get with the ladies one has to have a lot more going for him than height. Kind, well rounded, able to gather resources, confident, attractive and respected by his peers and society. Also tall. A sign of lack of confidence is not being comfortable and accepting of your limitations so you can work around them. Heck, this is the same as a lady getting a boob job or bbl. And we know how men feel about those fake things already.

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pas 4y ago
Okay, do you have any data at all? Men don't run away screaming from surgically modified boobs.
- eric4smith 4y ago
  We always prefer natural everything. Don’t be dramatic.

jmyeet 4y ago

I once heard that if you walk into any Big Tech company and want to figure out who the manager is, just look for the tallest, best-dressed man and you'll be right 90% of the time. This is, of course, apocryphal but I imagine there's some truth to it. This is life in general. There is an awful lot of privilege associated for completely arbitrary characteristics over which individuals have absolutely no control. Work, dating, whatever. This applies to both men and women . The article doesn't really go into why people are seeking this procedure. It would be illuminating to see quantitatve data on this. Is it because of dating opportunities? Work? Something else? Hiring practices are notoriously superficial. Ageism, sexism, racism (eg [1]), etc. Often these things are masked as "culture fit". HR will put lots of processes in place ostensibly to counteract bias but the net effect is really to shield the company with plausible deniability when it comes to bias against protected classes from individual interviewers and hiring managers. It would be interesting to see how height fits into this. Height seems to be a mixed blessing in acting, for example. There are certainly some very successful shorter actors (eg Tom Cruise is 5'7"). I imagine there is some of in software engineering too. Height goes to confidence and confidence will sway interviewers more than any technical competence will. [1]: https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/08/18/name-discrimination-jobs https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/08/18/name-discriminati...

hooloovoo_zoo 4y ago
Bezos is short, Zuckerberg is short, Gates is short…. Not the most effective rule lol
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  Neither of them are short enough that I'd call them 'short'. Right around average height for all genders. A little below average for U.S. men, but in lots of other countries they'd be above average (racism is possibly an ingredient in this discrimination and subconscious bias enchilada)
  - hooloovoo_zoo 4y ago
    They are 4, 4, and 1 inch below average for white males in the U.S. respectively. I guess one could call Gates average.

gpt5 4y ago

There is a very interesting study that analyzed men and women height preference using a large speed-dating sample. The results clearly showed that being taller increase men chances of getting a yes - no matter how tall you are, and no matter what the woman initially stated as their max ideal height! Scroll through the charts below. The entire article is worth reading due to the solid methodology that removed most biases involved in these studies. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-effect-of-male-and-female-height-on-a-the-likelihood-of-giving-a-Yes-response_fig1_236670565 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-effect-of-male-and-f...

toomuchtodo 4y ago
My favorite part (from a modern anthropological perspective) of this relationship is while there is a height/income relationship with men’s desirability, the amount of income a less attractive woman needs is an incredible multiple to be competitive with a more attractive woman. It speaks in market terms to the lizard brain of the species and what it values (not to mention that women primarily filter by physical attractiveness upfront when selecting but switch to warmth and other personality traits long term). It is the most raw, brutal marketplace experience imho. https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.61.4010 https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.61....
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  Table 5.4 and 5.5 show that income is nearly a non-factor for men selecting women. It is not a differentiating variable that men factor in at all. Whereas it is an easy lifehack for a less visually attractive man (5.4), or simply shorter man (5.5) to be selected by a woman, if they make more. I don't get the impression anything has changed since that study in 2006. I don't even think the same study could be done now given how broken online dating services have become now. A corollary of this, more related to this forum, is that this is a greater aspect of workplace gender and earning inequality than readjusting the workplace for women. Greater displacement of workers would occur if women were interested in having a lower earning man in subsidy, because many men would leave the workplace for that option. The option of unpaid household and emotional labor that is overrepresented by, and a predictable option for, women. The people interested in that role are probably a more even distribution across society.

ohiovr 4y ago

Hopefully the developers, should they have kids, feed their kids lots and lots of milk and steak for dinner as often as possible so they don't have to troubled by their height.

jackmott 4y ago

sfvegandude 4y ago

If I were shelling out $75k for 3 inches it wouldn’t be for my height

badduckdude 4y ago
pcurve 4y ago
5'6 -> 5'9' jump is huge.
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smegsicle 4y ago
just remember- it's what's inside that counts, and everyone has the same three or so inch reach back to the pubic bone

hyperbole 4y ago

Buy thicker sole shoes, wtf

badduckdude 4y ago
Koshkin 4y ago
Women are not stupid.

tyingq 4y ago

Looks pretty painful to me...here's some timelapsed xrays of the device (PRECICE-StrydeNail) in a patient: https://medcraze.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NuVasive-PRECICE-StrydeNail-1024x848.png https://medcraze.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NuVasive-PRE...

hypertele-Xii 4y ago
I've been having my teeth gently massaged straight by steel, for what feels like my whole life. The pain is so constant I've become desensitized to it, but if I stop to feel it's always there. I know it's torturing me on a subconscious level. Would not recommend.
- badduckdude 4y ago
  > I've been having my teeth gently massaged straight by steel, for what feels like my whole life. Why? Trying to change the steel to yellow in color?
  - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
    I don't know. Parent pressure.
pcurve 4y ago
yikes. a whole of pain for 3.8cm

actionablefiber 4y ago

As a short guy, I'm grateful to be gay and in a large city in the West. My experience is that most gay men are very relaxed about my height; if it even comes up they just say "oh yeah, major short king energy" and move on.

morelisp 4y ago
This is also the attitude of most straight/bi women I know. The problem is more that straight guys almost universally lack short king energy.
- actionablefiber 4y ago
  I believe this. A lot gets said about the standards that people of each gender have, especially when it comes to the standards that good-looking people have, but most people of any background are normal people looking for basically compatible partners, with particularly picky people being a highly visible minority. The problem is that ceteris paribus, tall people do have an advantage in the aggregate, and "short king energy" is about having the requisite physical traits (ex. facial hair, body hair, muscles), confidence, and compelling personality to make the cetera not be paria. I also think part of the problem is A) that dating, especially on apps, places physical appearance front and center when it comes to getting your foot in the door to talk to people, and B) a lot of other people are instinctively judgmental about certain dynamics in heterosexual dating, especially when shorter/younger/less successful/less dominant men date taller/older/more successful/more dominant women, and homosexual dating is comparatively a blank slate in terms of how your friend group/family will perceive it.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

About a decade ago, there was a huge scandal with the Chinese diplomatic core having strict height limits for girls, so there was (is?) a huge market for illegal operations to get taller. But this being China, the underground docs would often screw the operation up, leaving the poor girls with a bad limp for the rest of their lives.

programmarchy 4y ago

Seems like this is only going to help attract less intelligent women, because the smart ones will know their offspring won’t be getting genetics for height with someone who is artificially tall. Full speed ahead toward idiocracy.

thrown_22 4y ago
Does the same apply to artificial breasts?
softcactus 4y ago
How would they know? Are you divulging the fact that your height is the result of a procedure on the first date? Also are we assuming that women prefer tall men because they want tall children, not because tallness is just an attractive trait? Why would women choose to engage in casual sex with a tall man if their whole goal is to have tall children? Also how does this lead towards idiocracy? If the less intelligent women are sleeping with tech workers, and more intelligent women are sleeping with naturally tall men, then wouldn't we see the offspring of the tech bros + less intelligent women have average intelligence, while the smarter women are having taller, smarter children? There are so many assumptions being made here. I want to know what the conditions in this hypothetical world are. It sounds fascinating.
- Psychlist 4y ago
  That favours wealth over intelligence, or vice versa. So it's a value judgement - are we better off with more children to wealthy parents or to tall parents?
  - softcactus 4y ago
    I was making the underlying assumption that wealth has some correlation with intelligence (for someone who made money in tech at least) Tech bros need money to get height gainz -> must pass tech interviews/bring a product to market -> intelligence But also there is probably a correlation between height and wealth as well. Either way I don't think that it's anyone's place to determine who should reproduce.

3qz 4y ago

If it was that simple I would pay hundreds of thousands to be 3 inches taller. I’m glad to see this is catching on!

rglover 4y ago

Unreal levels of thirst.

callamdelaney 4y ago

Early enough in your career it probably makes financial sense. According to the guardian, who probably re-produced the figures according to someone else, a 6'0 man will make £100k more over his career than a man who's 5'4[0]. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/money/shortcuts/2015/apr/29/do-tall-people-really-deserve-to-earn-more https://www.theguardian.com/money/shortcuts/2015/apr/29/do-t...

pcthrowaway 4y ago
I suspect this pay disparity is less significant in software, post-covid, where a lot of people work remotely now anyway. One of the tack-on benefits of remote work is that at least it gets rid of height discrimination for fully-remote positions
heliodor 4y ago
In tech, outcomes over an entire career vary much more than £100k.

orangepurple 4y ago

95% of Tinder swipes by women are passes compared to 47% for men. Women tend to date up. Online dating apps are rigged for men. These apps are search engines optimized to match women with the top 5% of men. These apps are designed for women. Being average or even above average will almost never result in a date. Tinder was designed like a slot machine which will ruin your self-esteem from constant rejection but your hope of a large reward will keep you going for ages. You will have a much higher success rate as an average guy simply with a completely cold approach. That is how bad online dating is for men. As an example, a slightly above average man who generates 16561 swipes on Tinder will generate 7666 likes and 8675 dislikes. Out of these there will be 290 matches and 7596 no-match. A rate of 2.5 matches per day and an overall 3.7% match rate. Out of 290 matches he will send 87 messages and receive 12. 191 matches will never result in a message. Of the 99 messages 31 will be left on read or never even opened the initial message, resulting in 68 conversations. 40 of these women ghosted him, and our subject gave up on 17 of them. Ultimately this resulted in getting 11 phone numbers. These 11 phone numbers in 4 months led to 3 dates and 8 gave up on texting, declined the dating offer, or our subject simply gave up on them. All 3 dates did not materialize into anything long term. It was a complete waste of time. Considering that online dating is the most common method used to find a date these days, the options are grim for men who are not in the top 5% of attractiveness if they use these online platforms. Prior discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31823294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31823294

beej71 4y ago
I don't think I'm in the top 5% of attractiveness, but I didn't have much trouble getting dates with quality people on bumble. Met someone and it's been going strong for 2+ years. Tinder, however, was a total wasteland. Zero responses to anything. I think it just wasn't my scene.
kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
> Online dating apps are rigged for men. They're rigged for women. Even on the sites that claim to cater to women by forcing them to make first contact, they overwhelmingly use superficial low effort messages to unlock the other side and then proceed to reject 80% of the men they selected just like with regular sites.

huitzitziltzin 4y ago

There is a great piece on this (IMO) surgery from a few years ago from an author at jezebel (Prachi Gupta maybe?) whose brother did this in Italy and ended up dying as a result of this very surgery. Not worth it for better tinder matches. Also I very very much doubt that the effect of height on income is causal.

ukd1 4y ago
Can you find the link?

abledon 4y ago

On which date do you tell your partner about this? Do women do the same for their 'augmentations'?

nnoitra 4y ago

nnoitra 4y ago

shahbaby 4y ago

I can't blame them.

asdadsdad 4y ago

oh the world where everything can be "fixed". where are we going?

steve76 4y ago

asdadsdad 4y ago

Napoleon was 5′ 6″.

Koshkin 4y ago
Indeed, he was even slightly above average male height for his time. The myth about him being short has its roots in the fact that the military personnel, on average, was much taller than the rest of the population.

lucaspm98 4y ago

This may not be as bad of an investment as it sounds... Men who are 5 feet 6 inches need to make an additional $175,000 annually to be as desirable as men who are almost 6 feet. The number increases with shorter heights, with men who are 5 feet, for example, needing to make an additional $317,000 in income. This was in 2006 dollars. Study: https://home.uchicago.edu/~hortacsu/onlinedating.pdf https://home.uchicago.edu/~hortacsu/onlinedating.pdf

tennisflyi 4y ago

I'm 6'1" - it's not some magic ticket.

teh_klev 4y ago

Original article on GQ instead of this Business Insider re-heat: https://www.gq.com/story/leg-lengthening https://www.gq.com/story/leg-lengthening

S_A_P 4y ago

So I am struggling with the connection here. Is it just the fact that tech workers can afford elective surgery? Is this really something that only happens with tech workers?

RadixDLT 4y ago

these people will look t-rex if their legs get stretched too long

0xbadc0de5 4y ago

The future Gattaca warned is about is here, it's just unevenly distributed.

merricksb 4y ago

Discussion of source article on GQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32852962 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32852962

rsynnott 4y ago

> I've got patients from Google, Amazon, Facebook, Microsoft. I've had multiple patients from Microsoft. Presumably MS has particularly high standing desks.