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From one of the replies: > Be careful. > There is a scam where people put money into your account. > You send the money back to them, only to they've applied
by justusthane 4y ago
From one of the replies:
> Be careful.
> There is a scam where people put money into your account.
> You send the money back to them, only to they've applied for a loan in your name that you still have to pay back, but you've given away the money.
> Make sure it is you who initiates contact. Verify!
That’s a terrifying scam!
- dislikedtom2 4y agoI would blame the loaner for giving malicious loan that can't be legal. If someone here is not careful with money, it's the bank.
- capableweb 4y agoThe whole "bank said my identity has been stolen, they took all my money" fiasco makes it pretty clear banks can blame whatever on whomever, and the judicial system won't do squat.
- MonkeyMalarky 4y agoYeah, it's very asymmetrical with banks. Say you wire a large amount of money to the wrong account number? Too bad, you don't get it back. A large amount of money is mistakenly wired to your account? You're in for a world of hurt.
- jtbayly 4y agoThis isn’t true in my experience in the US. House purchase wired to slightly wrong account number. Stressful that money hadn’t shown up at closing, but it was resolved within a day.
- FireBeyond 4y agoYup. My parents wired me some funds from Australia to the US for a gift for part of a house downpayment. Something got screwed up with the numbers and the intermediary bank concept. But was able to call someone in the bank's operations department who was able to correct the issue and forward the wire on (I want to say it was sent to the intermediary bank's bank number, but the recipient bank account number, so intermediary said 'this is for us, but this isn't a valid account' - thankfully even though I wasn't the sender I was able to update them, because the comments on the wire had the correct "intended destination" so there was no ambiguity).
- elcritch 4y agoIt seems a bummer that bank accounts don't include "checksums" as part of the standard numbering system like CC numbers. If you get a digit wrong it'd fail to even initiate.
- Enginerrrd 4y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c57WKxeELY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c57WKxeELY
- bhedgeoser 4y agoSeriously how does that work? Any lawyers in here?
- MonkeyMalarky 4y agoWhen you make a transfer there's a bit in the fine print where the bank doesn't take responsibility for a mistake on your part.
- bhedgeoser 4y agoSo google made a mistake and the money now belongs to this guy.
- rebuilder 4y agoNo, it’s just not the bank’s fault. Probably (jurisdictions may differ) the recipient is required to return funds unintentionally sent to them.
- warent 4y agoHow can both be true?
- MonkeyMalarky 4y agoCompare this to any other situation where it is a random person that makes a similar mistake: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32645934 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32645934
- mvc 4y agoDepends where you live and why you were wiring the money. Banks in the UK are on the hook if it's a scam induced transfer.
- swozey 4y agoI had a friend who wired hundreds of thousands to the wrong account and it was returned after what I recall a lot of stress and wondering if it would come back and him on the phone a lot. Worked out in the end. I don't know if they'd put as much effort into someone only wiring small sums.
- toss1 4y agoYUP That's why with any payee over a few $hundred, I first send a tiny test ACH transfer and get them to tell me that it worked and how much. It'll take hundreds of those extra efforts to outweigh just sending one big payment astray. Also, since there are now so many scams with advance payment, if by surprise some large check or pmt lands in my acct, I'm definitely NOT sending it back with any speed, IDK what kind of pitiful story they tell. I'll transfer it to a new interest-bearing acct (possibly by cash w/security guard), then hold it pending full identification of source, actual error, and the outcome of any investigation. I'll hold onto it both because it may be an error that would be right to return, and because I don't want to get caught out having to return something I already spent, but the presumption that I'll just send it straight back is no longer valid.
- cronix 4y agoThank goodness you have to enter more than just an account number, like a name! Ive done this once and it was all returned because all of the info didn't match.
- cestith 4y agoThey will, eventually, if you can afford to outspend the bank on lawyers. It's yet another case of financial might making right.
- wdb 4y agoI had the problem that bank didn't update my communication postal address to my new address so they send all kind of important paperwork (like new access details for banking etc) to the old address and then blamed me. When these paperwork was used to sell my stock portfolio
- ouid 4y agoI'm confused how you would be liable for a loan that you did not initiate. Identity theft in general is just bank robbery, with the notable difference that then the bank turns around and robs you.
- TrackerFF 4y agoIn some countries, like at least Norway, you sign these loans with what is called BankID - it is essentially used for all kinds of e-signing, it's probably the most used 2FA tool here. Probably other Scandinavian countries too. But back to my point - if you for whatever reason get compromised to such a degree that other people can sign off things with your BankID, you're basically completely fucked. At least for probably 99.99% of the cases. This is because the law recognizes that sign-off as if you did it. And if some other did it, you've breached the ToS - which more or less states that you, and you only, can know the password, and it is your responsibility that said password is hidden / unavailable to others. Your signature and confirmation, your loan. The most common victims of these cases are spouses and close family members. But again, these things do differ from country to country.
- eckesicle 4y agoI'm pretty sure you're mistaken. Consumers in Scandinavia are not responsible when scammed unless they've acted with grave misjudgment or ill intent. There was even a case in the high court to cement this right in Sweden this summer specifically for BankID. https://www.konsumentverket.se/aktuellt/ko-har-ordet/2022/ko-har-ordet-starkt-konsumentskydd-for-konsumenter-som-luras-pa-pengar-via-bankbedragerier/ https://www.konsumentverket.se/aktuellt/ko-har-ordet/2022/ko...
- DownGoat 4y agoThe supreme court of Norway just denied an appeal from a bank on a similar case in Norway. The person had been phished over a telephone call, and gave away passwords and 2fa token to what they believed was a bank employee. https://www.domstol.no/globalassets/upload/hret/avgjorelser/2022/september-2022/hr-2022-1752-a.pdf https://www.domstol.no/globalassets/upload/hret/avgjorelser/...
- hansvm 4y ago> they've applied for a loan in your name that you still have to pay back If I defraud somebody on behalf of Wells Fargo you'd better believe they won't cough up any cash for the cause. You are not responsible for third parties interacting with each other without your knowledge or permission, and the fact that your name was dropped somewhere doesn't make that any less true.
- megous 4y agoWhy the extra steps of sending money if the little shit who faked the identity already had the money?
- shawabawa3 4y agoPresumably it goes like this: 1. Apply for loan under Bob Smith's name using stolen/forged identity 2. Company providing loan will only send to a bank account in Bob Smith's name 3. Provide the company with Bob Smith's real bank account details 4. Message Bob Smith, "oops, we accidentally sent you $x in error! please send it back" 5. Bob Smith now on the hook for proving they didn't apply for a loan
- forgotpwd16 4y agoSo bank fell for a con and now Bob has to pay?
- PKop 4y agoYes because how would it look different if Bob was playing both the victim and the scammer?
- zepolen 4y agoThe house always wins.
- lmz 4y agoBob's mistake was sending the money "back" to someone other than the original sender. I'm sure you can appreciate how this appears no different to the sending bank vs. e.g. sending it to your cousin who conveniently lives in another country.
- DangitBobby 4y agoI don't see why that should be Bob's problem. Don't give out loans without proof of identity.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- jhugo 4y agoUnless Google has started offering loans this specific scam seems unlikely in this case.
- bhedgeoser 4y agoOr just don't it back. It's google. They aren't gonna go bankrupt or starve to death.
- nomel 4y agoBut, there's a very real chance that you will if you spend it. In most cases, the courts will agree that it's theft.
- zerocrates 4y agoI haven't seen this with a loan on the other end but I've definitely heard of it with a payment: they send you a large amount, then contact you to tell you it was a mistake, but it was their fault (or sometimes _your_ fault) and they just need you to send the excess back to them. Of course after you send that real transaction "returning" the extra amount, you find that the check from them didn't clear (or that the transfer didn't happen for whatever other reason; a modern variant uses remote desktop to trick the victim into thinking a large amount of money is in their account when it's not). Though with a three week delay that's probably not what's happening here.
- Terretta 4y ago> Though with a three week delay that's probably not what's happening here. If a deposit is fraud, the banks are accountable to reverse it when discovered (inside applicable statutes of limitations for financial fraud), and you as account holder agreed to that when you signed up. Only rarely do banks on the ends have to eat the amount instead of one of the account holders. No money given to you incorrectly through a bank is yours (unless your lawyers are better with more staying power than theirs, because in practice, contracts are basically irrelevant when litigated with sufficient will and skill).
- mmerlin 4y agoKitboga is one of the best "shaming vigilantes" attempting to embarrass these kinds of scammers into reevaluating their life choices and choosing a more honorable life path https://youtu.be/6ccdd2HSY30 https://youtu.be/6ccdd2HSY30
- dpedu 4y agoThe type of scammers Kitboga deals with aren't really the same as what's discussed above, but it's close. The scammers Kitboga deals with typically operate by gaining access to your PC, having you log into your bank account, and using your browser's html debugger to edit the screen to make it appear as if they actually sent you too much money. Whereas the offline, traditional, version of this scam actually involves sending you a bad check and you depositing it and hoping you send them money before the bank figures out it was a bad check and removes the money from your account.