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X-Plane 12 Early Access
- incomingpain 4y agoI suspect fseconomy won't be updated for some time. I am disappointed to see xplane 12 not including fseconomy or similar right in the game.
- juice_bus 4y agoHow does X-Plane compare to the latest Microsoft Flight Simulator?
- deepsun 4y agoI don't know much about both, but xplane is developed by private developer, he even made video how he fought against patent trolls: https://youtu.be/sG9UMMq2dz4 https://youtu.be/sG9UMMq2dz4
- TedShiller 4y agoXPlane is a simulator. MSFS is a game.
- beardedscotsman 4y agoThat’s not entirely true. They gameafy some aspects for sure, but that’s just about accessibility. You can run it like a full sim and there are great videos of real Boeing pilots talking about it. Even the old flight sim was so advanced MSFT had contracts with the French military for their mapping tech from the game specifically. This is back in the day now.
- GekkePrutser 4y agoTo be fair, you do have to buy some expensive addons to make it that realistic. Most of the buttons in the included boeing don't work at all.
- asciimike 4y agoHere's a great example of why the flight model is... lacking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GX9lTvKuqU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GX9lTvKuqU It's perfectly fine for most things, but _really_ bad with things that could actually kill you. Meanwhile, in X-Plane land: https://developer.x-plane.com/2022/02/x-plane-12-flight-model-update-supersonic-transition-delta-wings-and-mass-properties/ https://developer.x-plane.com/2022/02/x-plane-12-flight-mode...
- cypress66 4y agoNot only that video is very old (there have been multiple improvements), people that are even remotely serious don't use the default aircraft which are always awful, they buy payware aircraft that are much better modeled.
- daviding 4y agoFans are tribal. Recent reviews shows practically no difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzokcKkEyuE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzokcKkEyuE
- Applejinx 4y agoThere is no comparison to X-Plane land <3
- mrguyorama 4y ago"The flight model" is kind of inaccurate when it comes to MSFS. They've always used a system that allows the aircraft developer significant authority to make their aircraft as simulated or gamified as they want. IE, a pmdg boeing will be hugely better simulated than the built in boeing.
- asciimike 4y agoThis is true in X-Plane as well though, right? I would kinda expect a better default Cessna model, though I admit that most people probably aren't going to either flight sim for lots of time in a Cessna (though I'd actually be really curious to know what % of planes are flown what what amount of time).
- McDev 4y agoI used MSFS a lot for practising VFR navigation / dead reckoning skills, very helpful for that with how good the scenery is. Not sure I could achieve the same in XPlane
- GekkePrutser 4y agoYeah if you fly VFR in areas you know real-world, it's really helpful to have the photorealistic scenery in MSFS!
- bitL 4y agoIt's only photorealistic if you use 10-20m DEM, otherwise any mountainous area just feels completely off and unrecognizable (try to fly over Alps with the default DEM, I couldn't recognize anything around Oberstdorf etc.)
- GekkePrutser 4y agoI don't know the alps area :) But I find the surroundings of Barcelona very realistic!
- bitL 4y agoDoes Montserrat look realistic in FS 2020? I remember how recognizable it was from Tibidabo but I couldn't find it when I was flying around Barcelona last time.
- GekkePrutser 4y agoI think it does yeah. You only see its iconic look really well from the Barcelona angle though! I'd have to check as I haven't really paid attention to it to be honest.
- bitL 4y agoJust tested it and you are right - they seem to have fixed it with the Iberian update.
- thecosmicfrog 4y agoLet's not start this. There are plenty of pilots with real-world flight experience who vehemently disagree with this statement.
- haunter 4y agoIFR flying is much better in Xplane especially if you enjoy sitting down doing 6 hour long flights. But VFR flying and just general _enjoyment_ of flying (like the worldwide coverage of terrain and airports and live weather) are much better in MSFS Both are really good though
- mazug 4y agoI tried the latest MS Flight Simulator on X-Box. It was incredibly difficult to figure out how to set things up to reasonably simulate something like flying an ILS approach. Maybe on the PC it's better, but it just didn't seem to be the focus. And there's background music playing like it's an un-serious video game. X-Plane seems much more oriented towards realistically simulating the tasks involved in actually flying aircraft. Microsoft's seemed more oriented towards having pretty dang spectacular graphics and providing a fun experience for people who aren't really that interested in the rest of the minutiae of piloting aircraft. It's pretty cool that you can see your actual house on the Microsoft one though.
- gburdell3 4y agoI've found that MSFS works much better when you turn off all the "fun" stuff and use add-on aircraft. I enjoy flying Airbus planes, so using mods like FlyByWire (free) and Fenix (paid) can drastically improve the experience since the built-in A320neo is pretty barebones. Those mods can also load flight plans straight from SimBrief so I avoid ever using the built-in flight planner. I just load up at the gate with an empty flight plan, load in my real plan from SimBrief, and pretend I'm flying a real A320.
- GekkePrutser 4y agoThe experience in VR is much much better in X-Plane. Sadly it doesn't have the amazingly realistic cities and world textures of MSFS but the controls work so much better. Especially X-Plane's "ergonomic yoke" which uses the tilt sensor in the controller instead of having to hold up your hand in thin air. MSFS is far behind this. And why call out VR specifically? Well, VR is in my opinion absolutely groundbreaking in flight simulation. I've flown small planes too and I've never felt that a flightsim was able to provide the feeling of flying. Until VR that is. Now it's amazing.
- JeremyNT 4y agoI use XP 11 with my HP Reverb 2. The VR works and works pretty well. The feeling of looking around in the cockpit is a nice improvement even over my old standby of TrackIR, which I used to use more frequently. I will say that I think I might dust the TrackIR off and use it again at some point. VR is a little disorienting and uncomfortable for long time periods and just having head tracking with a monitor does get you part of the way there. I do find it difficult to "touch" the controls in the cockpit, so if you want to actually learn the cockpit layout (rather than mapping a bunch of stuff to your keyboard and/or other input devices) you may want to pause the game while you select things. The graphics in XP 11 can be somewhat improved with "Orthophoto scenery" and there is a lot of payware available too, but this is a deep rabbit hole with lots of sketchy downloads and mucking about. Even after doing this I don't think the visuals ever get close to competing with the MSFS "out of the box" experience.
- mdip 4y agoFirst, thanks for the info -- you answered my question, too. :) > VR is in my opinion absolutely groundbreaking in flight simulation. I completely agree. I'm not a pilot nor interested in becoming one. My Dad owned his company and flew a plane for work[0]. He used the 1980s version of Flight Simulator to get licensed for IFR flying. I was impressed with the latest, but if there ever was a use for VR, it's this. You've got a panel full of instruments in front of you and an array of windows to look out of. At least half of the "controlling" in that game involves looking at specific places/in specific directions. Everything would be much more natural if I could control what I was looking at by ... moving my head. So far I've held off on buying any VR-related non-sense because I have yet to find something that it would improve the experience of enough to warrant spending money on. It sounds like this might be getting me closer? [0] I've written at length about this in the past, but he owned his company and sold to manufacturing plants. Many were out-of-state, so the plane allowed him to get to a few appointments and back home without a hotel stay -- or ... "gave him an excuse to own a plane". You pick :)
- LunarCamper 4y agoThank you for asking the single most important question for this article. :)
- Applejinx 4y agoI've had X-Plane back since version 7 or so. Get into binges with it and then stop for years. The reason for that is, my primary interest in X-Plane is DESIGNING planes to see if and how well they will fly. If it had the structural stuff in the short-lived Young's Modulus by the same guy I'd be even more interested… that's a big ask, however, and potentially very dangerous. Because people literally use X-Plane to design real planes, by making rough drafts of the aerodynamics, weights and balances of their proposed designs. X-Plane is a full-on blade element modeler right down to modelling the propellers of prop-driven planes also as little wings, and flight is simulated by taking all the airfoils etc. at various points of all wings and determining how the plane would fly with this collection of forces… for ALL MODELS. That's the only engine at work. You don't download 'new flight code' for new planes you get, just the aesthetics and the model that says what airfoils go where etc. and then the sim works out what would happen. If you wanted to fly your 747 but see what would happen if you stuck a Cessna engine 3 feet in from the left wingtip, MFS absolutely would not know where to begin with that. X-Plane would not only let you do it but would do a pretty decent job of showing what would happen. So it's kind of not even a comparison… Pretty hilarious getting downvotes on a nerd site for saying THIS. Bring it. I stand by what I said 100%, these are the things that matter in a simulator. For airplanes :)
- jillesvangurp 4y agoIf you are primarily looking out the window, MS wins because they spend a lot of effort making sure to model the entire world in great detail. No shame in that, it's a great way to enjoy a flight sim and MS did an amazing job with it. And in fairness, they really upped their game with the weather engine and flight models as well. It's a fine product. Otherwise, X-plane 12 is pretty compelling as well and it probably wins in the flight model department in terms of just modeling a lot of weird and niche stuff out of the box. Most people will never notice but it's there to appreciate for those that can appreciate these things. And with the right scenery, it doesn't look half bad either. E.g. orbx has scenery for both sims and I suspect things look pretty close with that. And there are some nice free add-ons that will get you closer to the MS experience but probably not all the way. E.g. Simheaven.com is getting ready with an xplane-12 release; completely free. X-plane 12 is a pretty big upgrade if you were using or familiar with x-plane 11: - volumetric clouds and weather updates - the rendering is gorgeous in comparison - lots of refinement in flight models, audio, ATC, weather engine, etc. - Lots of nice new default planes - Amazing work on the sound. Seeing a jet take off is one thing. But hearing the rumble is another thing. Give the free demo a spin. Easiest way to find out if it's worth your money. Works great on recent Macbooks with the M1 processor.
- clumsysmurf 4y agoI've never used X-Plane or Microsoft Flight Simulator. Can anyone recommend a good $200 (or less) joystick?
- GiorgioG 4y agoAn XBox controller works great. I have a yoke (honeycomb) that I paid a good bit of money for but is annoying to mount for just a quick flight around...so it sits in the corner of my office.
- themikesanto 4y agoI enjoy my Thrustmaster T1600M, it was $150: https://www.thrustmaster.com/products/t-16000m-fcs-hotas/ https://www.thrustmaster.com/products/t-16000m-fcs-hotas/
- Melatonic 4y agoThrustmaster T16000m is popular
- bitL 4y agoThe same, including throttle and pedals. FS 2020 + VR + T16000M feels quite realistic based on my pilot training.
- WhipeeDip 4y agoIf you want both a stick and throttle for under $200, you'll likely want the Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS (~$150). If you're willing to add another ~$150 to the budget, I highly recommend the VKB Gladiator NXT EVO with the SCG Premium grip (~$210 with US shipping) and picking up the Thrustmaster TWCS throttle alone (~$130). Either way, the Thrustmaster TWCS throttle does have some stiction and you might want to clean it up, or even better 3D print/buy a slider replacement for about ~$40 on Etsy.
- eikenberry 4y agoIf you're a light player an T.16000m will work but they all die with hardware issues at some point. The matching TWCS throttle has similar issues. I'm a heavy space sim player and went through 2 T16000Ms and 3 TWCSs before switching fully over to VKB sticks. VKB sticks last longer (no issues after 2+ years heavy use), are repairable and VKB will sell you parts. Much nicer if you can afford it. Take a look at their youtube channel if you are curious about the repairibility. https://www.youtube.com/c/VKBSim https://www.youtube.com/c/VKBSim
- svnpenn 4y agoDo yourself a favor, and checkout the X Pilot channel on YouTube: https://youtube.com/channel/UCLPA0Dhi1VXQDGbkXwjDUzQ https://youtube.com/channel/UCLPA0Dhi1VXQDGbkXwjDUzQ
- pohl 4y agoEvery time I see an X-Plane article my heart skips a beat, then I realize it's not about XPilot.
- amelius 4y agoI didn't use a flight sim in 20 years or so. But do they have a library of safety incidents, which you can then replay?
- petee 4y agoIf they don't I'm sure you can add them, X-plane is fairly open I've heard. I have MSFS 2020, I know of at least one user created 'mission' that puts lets you try and land on the Hudson like Capt Sully
- thot_experiment 4y agoI'm also curious about this. I love challenging situations in flight sims and it would be fun to replay real scenarios, or even have a tool where you could just set it to randomly pick one or a couple problems off a list and cause them to manifest at some point in the flight. I haven't done much simming recently sadly, WarThunder VR support has been broken for over a year and sadly my CPU isn't strong enough for X-Plane 11, but I'll probably be picking up one of the new AMD chips this fall so I'm excited to get back into it.
- imoverclocked 4y agoX-Plane 11 has the ability to randomly fail equipment with parameters that you give it. It can also save a scenario so all the components already exist for something like this.
- alberth 4y agoAre you Captain Sully? :)
- Jamie9912 4y agoThe answer is no, they don't
- dmix 4y agoHow big is the install on Mac? The downloaded doesn't say.
- daviding 4y agoIt comes with a 15 minute demo of the Portland area, so can be tried on your system easily. It's also cross platform.
- unknownaccount 4y agoRandom question but do you people who play flight simulators but never flown a real plane think that if you were on a commercial passenger jet and the pilots became incapacitated that you would be able to take over the controls and land the plane safely?
- seper8 4y agoDepends on the plane, weather conditions, air traffic control and the runway. Does the runway support ILS, will ATC help guide you, clear skies & daytime? Probably would work
- Buttons840 4y agoMaybe if I could get the radio working. After that I've probably played with the autopilot systems enough that I could follow instructions. Such a scenario would most likely happen in a smaller aircraft and I imagine they'd guide me to the largest runway around, and landing a small aircraft on a full size commercial runway probably feels like the runway goes for miles and miles.
- cameronh90 4y agoI have flown a Cessna in real life but never a jet. In sim, I usually fly Airbus, usually at night or in clouds, relying mainly on the instrumentation and charts. For your scenario, I think if it was an Airbus, the conditions weren't too extreme and there were no failures, I'd have a pretty good shot at a successful landing. If it was a Boeing, I wouldn't know where to start. I don't think flying is that hard at a basic level. Arguably it's easier than driving once you've got your head around the millions of buttons and switches. The challenge is what you do when things go wrong, and adequately planning for that situation.
- thomasin500 4y agoHaving played lots and lots of flight simulators using Yolks, Pedals, and physical buttons, etc, I think with guidance from ATC, I would be more likely to land a plane safely compared to the general public. How much more is up to debate...
- unsignedint 4y ago
- codingpanic 4y agoExcellent! Cant wait to see what the performance is on M1 Max. Just purchased and they sent me two keys... opened a ticket to let them know.
- daviding 4y agoDuring the early access / beta period one of the keys might be for X-Plane 11. I think that's the deal.
- codingpanic 4y agoI would have thought the second email would have stated "Xplane 11 key"? Both say 12.
- daviding 4y agoHmm odd, not sure then. I'll take it, if it's not being used ;) I had a look on where I read about the X-Plane 11 keys during the beta, it's here - https://developer.x-plane.com/2022/05/x-plane-12-development-update-may-19-2022/ https://developer.x-plane.com/2022/05/x-plane-12-development...
- alphanumeric0 4y agoDoes anyone know if they've fixed the AI and ATC? I distinctly remember in previous versions watching the AI aircraft bounce off the ground repeatedly in an attempt to reach an incorrect flight level given to them by the ATC. That kind of ruined the illusion for me. It's a great sim, overall, I think it has a different set of priorities from MSFS, which is totally fine. I only wish I could have the best of both worlds.
- cameronh90 4y agoThe ATC AI is still pretty awful I'm afraid. I would look into VATSIM if you like realism.
- mm007emko 4y agoPilotEdge is IMHO better option than Vatsim, although it is paid for.
- palijer 4y agoPerhaps the flight level given by ATC is correct, but the instrument calibration is not set correctly.
- GekkePrutser 4y agoMSFS has similarly awful ATC though. If you really want good ATC, yeah VATSIM or IVAO.
- dang 4y agoRelated: X-Plane 12 Flight Model Update – Supersonic Transition, Delta Wings and Mass - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31827301 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31827301 - June 2022 (126 comments)
- mindcrash 4y agoWhy this isn't released in EA on Steam - where most of the community is located due to 10 and 11 being there and which has even recently grown a bit due to a quite hefty discount on 11 - is a bit weird imo...
- serf 4y agomost of the community is on Steam? I mean, this data is old, but that wasn't true in 2018[0] I've been buying new X-Plane(s) since like 1997, I haven't yet used Steam to do so -- the x-plane website is easy to use, offers discounts frequently, and doesn't hold my software hostage behind another walled garden. I'm not alone, if the modding forums are any indication. XP-10 was said to have sold over 100,000 copies, but Steam charts shows an average number of players at 2 for 10 and 400 for 11 -- those numbers don't really seem to fit, even for a fairly old game. I presume a significant portion of the install base is done outside of Steam. [0]: https://www.thresholdx.net/article/navi21 https://www.thresholdx.net/article/navi21