6 ms·

Are the Corps of Engineers like a roving squad of problem solvers? What is their mandate?

bardworx 4y ago
They are a division of the US Army.
routerl 4y ago
Engineering corps always also have civil responsibilities. For instance, in the United States, the Army Corps of engineers is responsible for dredging canals. Providing drinking water to a population is one of the archetypal roles of military engineers.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
  They also have a huge presence in nearby Vicksburg (waterways), so it might have been an easy resource to call on.
- mturmon 4y ago
  Since it’s a weekend, if people have time, here’s the classic narrative summary by John McPhee of the Mississippi delta and the role of the Corps: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1987/02/23/atchafalaya https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1987/02/23/atchafalaya
  - sour-taste 4y ago
    Just wanted to say thanks for the recommendation. Excellent article though it took me a few days to finish.
    - mturmon 4y ago
      "Atchafalaya" is one of four articles compiled into a book, The Control of Nature, that is also excellent. One other of the four that I remember from that book is about how erosion shapes the Los Angeles basin -- "Los Angeles Against the Mountains".
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
SeanLuke 4y ago
When they're not actively destroying the Mississippi Delta through incompetence.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  There's been an enormous amount of PR done on the behalf of the Army Core of Engineers ever since people figured out that New Orleans was their fault.
  - rjbwork 4y ago
    New Orleans even being able to continue existing at all is due to the Army Corps Of Engineers. The Old River Control Structure keeps it from flooding too hard, and a LOT of resources go into keeping the river along its current route so that NOLA can continue as the premier port for the mid-west to import and export from/to the world.
    - tomrod 4y ago
      How much would it cost if the river diverted? Would a huge part of Louisiana need to be geo-engineered to restore the literal bloodflow of US trade (in the East)? There would be dozens of states that would be hosed economically if the Mississippi entrance were to be blocked.
      - rjbwork 4y ago
        It would cost a shitload. Morgan City would have to be build up tremendously, since that is likely where the bulk of the flow would end up, through the Atchafalaya river, basin, and delta. New Orleans and Baton Rouge would see one of the most dramatic economic implosions seen in the modern world. Akin to, and possibly worse, than the hollowing out of many formerly prosperous rust belt cities. There would also most likely be a lot of people displaced by allowing the Mississippi/Atchafalaya to meander at will, since the channels to handle that amount of water if left to its own devices are simply not there. You'd end up with an absolutely enormous floodplain between the current paths of those two rivers. My family is from the bayous between that area. The highest place in town was an artificial hill in a park 20-30 feet high. All in all, it's probably better ecologically to simply let the rivers meander as they will, but economically it is in the city, state, and region's best interests to maintain the status quo.
SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
And why didn't they get these guys to fix Flint's water issues?
- astrange 4y ago
  Flint had to replace their pipes before it could be fixed. But it was fixed in 2019, anyone who still posts “the US is bad because Flint doesn’t have working water” is just lying to you.
  - rsaxvc 4y ago
    What do you mean? Flint is still replacing lead service lines as they're found. https://cityofflint.wpengine.com/progress-report-on-flint-water/ https://cityofflint.wpengine.com/progress-report-on-flint-wa...
    - astrange 4y ago
      Merely having lead pipes isn’t the problem as long as they’re not degraded. As I said, the water quality has been fine for years now.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  I dont know, but as general commentary: Lead poisoning is not so easy to fix. You have to replace extensive amounts of lead pipe and/or find and remedy another source and then treat the existing poisoning which doctors aren't so talented at. Most doctors aren't well versed in chelation protocols. Even if you replace all the lead pipes, the problem isn't resolved. You still need medical care.
- ZoomerCretin 4y ago
  My understanding of the Flint water issue was the introduction of corrosive water that caused the lead pipes to leech lead. The fix wasn't "Make repair at the one point of failure" but "Replace every water pipe in the 34.1 square mile city."
5d8767c68926 4y ago
Given the size of the armed forces, assigning some percentage to domestic infrastructure seems like a fantastically good idea.
- skissane 4y ago
  It's a somewhat unusual arrangement though, to have a division of the armed forces perform essentially civilian functions, isn't it? Maybe not globally – gendarmerie come to mind – but certainly in the English-speaking world?
  - andirk 4y ago
    The current US military budget (#1 highest globally) is fitting for a country who is currently at war with the next 5-10 highest military budget countries. And since theyre allies with most of those countries, and at war with none of them, and since both political parties' #1 marching order is to increase that budget, I for one would enjoy seeing that faction be used to aid domestic infrastructure.
  - vkou 4y ago
    It's an unusual arrangement, but it is absolutely something other countries should be adopting. Canada's equivalent thereof (as well as its equivalent to FEMA) was completely not up to the task when it came to last year's flooding in BC.
  - mellavora 4y ago
    Unusual, but very sensible. Military is trained to operate in chaotic environments where basic facilities (transport, communications, supply, ...) cannot be counted on. Seems perfect for response to natural disasters, which seem to be becoming more common these days. The military is about much much more than fighting/killing.
qbasic_forever 4y ago
Division of the Army, in wartime they're tasked with building the infrastructure to support the army. Like temporary (or permanent) bridges, buildings, bunkers, etc. In peace time they can use their skills at home to support infrastructure.

They are a division of the US Army.

Engineering corps always also have civil responsibilities. For instance, in the United States, the Army Corps of engineers is responsible for dredging canals. Providing drinking water to a population is one of the archetypal roles of military engineers.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago
They also have a huge presence in nearby Vicksburg (waterways), so it might have been an easy resource to call on.
mturmon 4y ago
Since it’s a weekend, if people have time, here’s the classic narrative summary by John McPhee of the Mississippi delta and the role of the Corps: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1987/02/23/atchafalaya https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1987/02/23/atchafalaya
- sour-taste 4y ago
  Just wanted to say thanks for the recommendation. Excellent article though it took me a few days to finish.
  - mturmon 4y ago
    "Atchafalaya" is one of four articles compiled into a book, The Control of Nature, that is also excellent. One other of the four that I remember from that book is about how erosion shapes the Los Angeles basin -- "Los Angeles Against the Mountains".
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

SeanLuke 4y ago

When they're not actively destroying the Mississippi Delta through incompetence.

pessimizer 4y ago
There's been an enormous amount of PR done on the behalf of the Army Core of Engineers ever since people figured out that New Orleans was their fault.
- rjbwork 4y ago
  New Orleans even being able to continue existing at all is due to the Army Corps Of Engineers. The Old River Control Structure keeps it from flooding too hard, and a LOT of resources go into keeping the river along its current route so that NOLA can continue as the premier port for the mid-west to import and export from/to the world.
  - tomrod 4y ago
    How much would it cost if the river diverted? Would a huge part of Louisiana need to be geo-engineered to restore the literal bloodflow of US trade (in the East)? There would be dozens of states that would be hosed economically if the Mississippi entrance were to be blocked.
    - rjbwork 4y ago
      It would cost a shitload. Morgan City would have to be build up tremendously, since that is likely where the bulk of the flow would end up, through the Atchafalaya river, basin, and delta. New Orleans and Baton Rouge would see one of the most dramatic economic implosions seen in the modern world. Akin to, and possibly worse, than the hollowing out of many formerly prosperous rust belt cities. There would also most likely be a lot of people displaced by allowing the Mississippi/Atchafalaya to meander at will, since the channels to handle that amount of water if left to its own devices are simply not there. You'd end up with an absolutely enormous floodplain between the current paths of those two rivers. My family is from the bayous between that area. The highest place in town was an artificial hill in a park 20-30 feet high. All in all, it's probably better ecologically to simply let the rivers meander as they will, but economically it is in the city, state, and region's best interests to maintain the status quo.

SturgeonsLaw 4y ago

And why didn't they get these guys to fix Flint's water issues?

astrange 4y ago
Flint had to replace their pipes before it could be fixed. But it was fixed in 2019, anyone who still posts “the US is bad because Flint doesn’t have working water” is just lying to you.
- rsaxvc 4y ago
  What do you mean? Flint is still replacing lead service lines as they're found. https://cityofflint.wpengine.com/progress-report-on-flint-water/ https://cityofflint.wpengine.com/progress-report-on-flint-wa...
  - astrange 4y ago
    Merely having lead pipes isn’t the problem as long as they’re not degraded. As I said, the water quality has been fine for years now.
DoreenMichele 4y ago
I dont know, but as general commentary: Lead poisoning is not so easy to fix. You have to replace extensive amounts of lead pipe and/or find and remedy another source and then treat the existing poisoning which doctors aren't so talented at. Most doctors aren't well versed in chelation protocols. Even if you replace all the lead pipes, the problem isn't resolved. You still need medical care.
ZoomerCretin 4y ago
My understanding of the Flint water issue was the introduction of corrosive water that caused the lead pipes to leech lead. The fix wasn't "Make repair at the one point of failure" but "Replace every water pipe in the 34.1 square mile city."

5d8767c68926 4y ago

Given the size of the armed forces, assigning some percentage to domestic infrastructure seems like a fantastically good idea.

skissane 4y ago
It's a somewhat unusual arrangement though, to have a division of the armed forces perform essentially civilian functions, isn't it? Maybe not globally – gendarmerie come to mind – but certainly in the English-speaking world?
- andirk 4y ago
  The current US military budget (#1 highest globally) is fitting for a country who is currently at war with the next 5-10 highest military budget countries. And since theyre allies with most of those countries, and at war with none of them, and since both political parties' #1 marching order is to increase that budget, I for one would enjoy seeing that faction be used to aid domestic infrastructure.
- vkou 4y ago
  It's an unusual arrangement, but it is absolutely something other countries should be adopting. Canada's equivalent thereof (as well as its equivalent to FEMA) was completely not up to the task when it came to last year's flooding in BC.
- mellavora 4y ago
  Unusual, but very sensible. Military is trained to operate in chaotic environments where basic facilities (transport, communications, supply, ...) cannot be counted on. Seems perfect for response to natural disasters, which seem to be becoming more common these days. The military is about much much more than fighting/killing.

qbasic_forever 4y ago

Division of the Army, in wartime they're tasked with building the infrastructure to support the army. Like temporary (or permanent) bridges, buildings, bunkers, etc. In peace time they can use their skills at home to support infrastructure.