6 ms·

How is Argentina supposed to pay for public services, teachers, doctors, education, roads, etc if the conception is that a "Pretty good deal" means the country

by IMTDb 4y ago

How is Argentina supposed to pay for public services, teachers, doctors, education, roads, etc if the conception is that a "Pretty good deal" means the country does not get any tax money through competent, employed individuals who are supposed to be the one supporting those costs ?

notch656a 4y ago
All those things can be acquired privately. It is possible to buy things without using tax money.
- the_af 4y ago
  You can only say this if you don't know Argentina. Over here, free (nonprivate) public education is a point of pride. It's political suicide to dismantle the public [1] education system. People will rightfully take to the streets if someone attempts this. Same with many hospitals. To understand what I mean, think of whatever is held dearest in US culture. Is it free speech, freedom of assembly, something like that? Now imagine if a US government told you, "we've determined freedom of speech is not fiscally feasible anymore, so we're taking it away". That's what it would feel like for us. [1] do note in Argentina, "public" doesn't mean the same as in the US.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    The fact that it is a point of pride has literally nothing to do with the fact it is possible to buy health care or education privately. ------ >It also means you are not familiar with Argentina's culture or politics. I'm familiar with the fact Argentina taxes profit at 106% [0]. That is it is illegal to make a profit in Argentina. Perhaps the failures of your government officials is part of the problem in your nation. Perhaps it is possible the individual citizens of your own country know better how to manage their own money than your politicians, and what you see as prideful 'public services' have become ways to rob you and fill the pockets of those connected to your politicians. I hope you are able to find a way forward without getting robbed blind in taxes by politicians who pretend to be acting on your behalf. I certainly don't begrudge your countrymen who have taken matters in their own hands. >Also, most people here would be screwed under a privatized system. Your people seem to be screwed under the current system and things aren't exactly looking up. By some accounts I've heard from your countrymen, only 'most' instead of 'practically everyone' being screwed would actually be a step up. ------------------ >Living in Argentina is not hell, or anywhere close to hell. It's quite a nice country But I never said it was hell and this is a vapid attempt to make me look like someone who hates Argentina and painting it as hell. Surely I would probably even enjoy living there, but I'm sorry to say there are ways in which your people are 'screwed' and the currency issue is one of them. I don't appreciate your attempt to try and make this _Me the man of culture of Argentina who KNOWS the culture vs the outsider who thinks Argentina is hell_, which of course is utter bullshit designed as a back door ad hominem attack. >and whoever told you so is lying to you. You are literally the first Argentinian I've spoken to who claimed they weren't screwed by the political/currency situation, and I've spoken to a lot of them. I'd suggest you stop interpreting my comments as some attack on Argentina, rather interpret them as thought on how to deal with a system where your politicians fuck you with policies like making it illegal to make a profit, which is something that 'screws' everyone. The sooner you realize your precious public institutions of 'pride' are really the way in which your politicians bluff you into lining their own pockets and getting robbed blind by their policies, the better. [0] https://www.doingbusiness.org/content/dam/doingBusiness/country/a/argentina/ARG.pdf https://www.doingbusiness.org/content/dam/doingBusiness/coun...
    - the_af 4y ago
      It has everything to do because it speaks to feasibility. Also, most people here would be screwed under a privatized system. It also means you are not familiar with Argentina's culture or politics.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > fact that it is a point of pride has literally nothing to do with the fact it is possible to buy health care or education privately It does mean that if identified, the system is incentivized to make a brutal example out of you.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - the_af 4y ago
      > Your people seem to be screwed under the current system and things aren't exactly looking up. By some accounts I've heard from your countrymen, only 'most' instead of 'practically everyone' being screwed would actually be a step up. This is simply not true. You've been listening to one-sided propaganda. Note I'm not saying things are well. But it's not as extreme as you put it. Living in Argentina is not hell, or anywhere close to hell. It's quite a nice country. Us in the middle class love to complain a lot, but many of us are doing quite fine. Yes, the situation is uncertain, inflation very high, and it's all politically volatile. But it's not anywhere close to a nightmare (your "practically everyone is screwed"), and whoever told you so is lying to you.
Daishiman 4y ago
People making those incomes just make up an income stream and pay taxes with that. Unless you want to pay 75% of your income in taxes.
wbc 4y ago
Good news! Mendoza province now accepts crypto for taxes: https://cointelegraph.com/news/argentina-s-mendoza-province-now-accepting-crypto-for-taxes-and-fees https://cointelegraph.com/news/argentina-s-mendoza-province-...
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Good news! Mendoza province now accepts crypto for taxes This is irrelevant. The problem wasn't the mechanics of paying taxes. It was the willingness. Getting USD-T is just an easier (albeit more traceable) alternative to envelopes of cash in a suitcase.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lezojeda 4y ago
And why should those competent, employed individuals pay the cost of having an incompetent government who's willing to steal around 75% of their salary through unfair taxes? You receive, for example, 2000 USD and are forced, by law, to convert them to pesos in 5 days but to their fantasy exchange value of around 147 pesos per dollar. Fantasy exchange value because try to get someone to sell you a dollar at that price, it's impossible, the real value of the dollar here is the one most people can access which is around 280. And also, besides that you have to pay all the ridiculous taxes from just exporting your services and invoicing. No thanks.
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  If your choice is "pay no taxes", and it's a frequent choice, then take a wild guess why the government is taxing 75% of income it knows about.
  - lezojeda 4y ago
    Not my fault pal, they started this shit many decades ago, I was born in the 90s, I'm not gonna take the burden of fixing this country. Also, if you'd live outside of the first world bubble you'd know how our corrupt governments spend taxes
mixmastamyk 4y ago
Good question that should have been considered before destroying the currency. For a government to be considered legitimate it must be trustworthy.
imtringued 4y ago
Honestly, just tax land.
el-salvador 4y ago
From why I understand they are required to exchange their foreign USD into Argentinan Pesos with a very unfavorable exchange rate.

by IMTDb 4y ago

notch656a 4y ago

All those things can be acquired privately. It is possible to buy things without using tax money.

the_af 4y ago
You can only say this if you don't know Argentina. Over here, free (nonprivate) public education is a point of pride. It's political suicide to dismantle the public [1] education system. People will rightfully take to the streets if someone attempts this. Same with many hospitals. To understand what I mean, think of whatever is held dearest in US culture. Is it free speech, freedom of assembly, something like that? Now imagine if a US government told you, "we've determined freedom of speech is not fiscally feasible anymore, so we're taking it away". That's what it would feel like for us. [1] do note in Argentina, "public" doesn't mean the same as in the US.
- notch656a 4y ago
  The fact that it is a point of pride has literally nothing to do with the fact it is possible to buy health care or education privately. ------ >It also means you are not familiar with Argentina's culture or politics. I'm familiar with the fact Argentina taxes profit at 106% [0]. That is it is illegal to make a profit in Argentina. Perhaps the failures of your government officials is part of the problem in your nation. Perhaps it is possible the individual citizens of your own country know better how to manage their own money than your politicians, and what you see as prideful 'public services' have become ways to rob you and fill the pockets of those connected to your politicians. I hope you are able to find a way forward without getting robbed blind in taxes by politicians who pretend to be acting on your behalf. I certainly don't begrudge your countrymen who have taken matters in their own hands. >Also, most people here would be screwed under a privatized system. Your people seem to be screwed under the current system and things aren't exactly looking up. By some accounts I've heard from your countrymen, only 'most' instead of 'practically everyone' being screwed would actually be a step up. ------------------ >Living in Argentina is not hell, or anywhere close to hell. It's quite a nice country But I never said it was hell and this is a vapid attempt to make me look like someone who hates Argentina and painting it as hell. Surely I would probably even enjoy living there, but I'm sorry to say there are ways in which your people are 'screwed' and the currency issue is one of them. I don't appreciate your attempt to try and make this _Me the man of culture of Argentina who KNOWS the culture vs the outsider who thinks Argentina is hell_, which of course is utter bullshit designed as a back door ad hominem attack. >and whoever told you so is lying to you. You are literally the first Argentinian I've spoken to who claimed they weren't screwed by the political/currency situation, and I've spoken to a lot of them. I'd suggest you stop interpreting my comments as some attack on Argentina, rather interpret them as thought on how to deal with a system where your politicians fuck you with policies like making it illegal to make a profit, which is something that 'screws' everyone. The sooner you realize your precious public institutions of 'pride' are really the way in which your politicians bluff you into lining their own pockets and getting robbed blind by their policies, the better. [0] https://www.doingbusiness.org/content/dam/doingBusiness/country/a/argentina/ARG.pdf https://www.doingbusiness.org/content/dam/doingBusiness/coun...
  - the_af 4y ago
    It has everything to do because it speaks to feasibility. Also, most people here would be screwed under a privatized system. It also means you are not familiar with Argentina's culture or politics.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > fact that it is a point of pride has literally nothing to do with the fact it is possible to buy health care or education privately It does mean that if identified, the system is incentivized to make a brutal example out of you.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - the_af 4y ago
    > Your people seem to be screwed under the current system and things aren't exactly looking up. By some accounts I've heard from your countrymen, only 'most' instead of 'practically everyone' being screwed would actually be a step up. This is simply not true. You've been listening to one-sided propaganda. Note I'm not saying things are well. But it's not as extreme as you put it. Living in Argentina is not hell, or anywhere close to hell. It's quite a nice country. Us in the middle class love to complain a lot, but many of us are doing quite fine. Yes, the situation is uncertain, inflation very high, and it's all politically volatile. But it's not anywhere close to a nightmare (your "practically everyone is screwed"), and whoever told you so is lying to you.

Daishiman 4y ago

People making those incomes just make up an income stream and pay taxes with that. Unless you want to pay 75% of your income in taxes.

wbc 4y ago

Good news! Mendoza province now accepts crypto for taxes: https://cointelegraph.com/news/argentina-s-mendoza-province-now-accepting-crypto-for-taxes-and-fees https://cointelegraph.com/news/argentina-s-mendoza-province-...

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Good news! Mendoza province now accepts crypto for taxes This is irrelevant. The problem wasn't the mechanics of paying taxes. It was the willingness. Getting USD-T is just an easier (albeit more traceable) alternative to envelopes of cash in a suitcase.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

lezojeda 4y ago

And why should those competent, employed individuals pay the cost of having an incompetent government who's willing to steal around 75% of their salary through unfair taxes? You receive, for example, 2000 USD and are forced, by law, to convert them to pesos in 5 days but to their fantasy exchange value of around 147 pesos per dollar. Fantasy exchange value because try to get someone to sell you a dollar at that price, it's impossible, the real value of the dollar here is the one most people can access which is around 280. And also, besides that you have to pay all the ridiculous taxes from just exporting your services and invoicing. No thanks.

EdwardDiego 4y ago
If your choice is "pay no taxes", and it's a frequent choice, then take a wild guess why the government is taxing 75% of income it knows about.
- lezojeda 4y ago
  Not my fault pal, they started this shit many decades ago, I was born in the 90s, I'm not gonna take the burden of fixing this country. Also, if you'd live outside of the first world bubble you'd know how our corrupt governments spend taxes

mixmastamyk 4y ago

Good question that should have been considered before destroying the currency. For a government to be considered legitimate it must be trustworthy.

imtringued 4y ago

Honestly, just tax land.

el-salvador 4y ago

From why I understand they are required to exchange their foreign USD into Argentinan Pesos with a very unfavorable exchange rate.