3 ms·

Where's the code of ethics for the real decision makers? For executives and upper management?

blandcoffee 4y ago
I do agree with you on the power dynamics that may plague some workplaces today. It feels as though there is a greater burden or accountability placed on the lower-level employees more than the c-suite. What do you think if we speak to the value of a code of ethics separately from the unfortunate power dynamics some companies have chosen?
kragen 4y ago
I think the code of ethics of the American Bar Association prohibits lawyers from accepting a position where they are bound to obey non-lawyers. That is, you can have a boss, but only if they're another lawyer.
- nradov 4y ago
  There are thousands of lawyers who work as internal corporate counsel and report to non-lawyer managers. The actual prohibition is on sharing legal fees or forming partnerships with non-lawyers (although certain exceptions are allowed). https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/rule_5_4_professional_independence_of_a_lawyer/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibili...
  - kragen 4y ago
    Interesting, thank you for the correction; the part I was referring to is §5.4(c): "A lawyer shall not permit a person who recommends, employs, or pays the lawyer to render legal services for another to direct or regulate the lawyer's professional judgment in rendering such legal services." And §5.4(d)(3) which sort of says the same thing.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
no-dr-onboard 4y ago
I love that people took the time and effort to draft this, but boy am I jaded on the practicality of these things. CoE's are inherently utopian and seldom adhered to behind closed doors. My take is that at best, CoE's are for instilling homogeneity by outlining predefined, unquestionable set of shibboleth's for the working class. At it's worst, CoE's are just CYA measures outlined and enforced to avoid lawsuits. Few truly believe. Most CoE's are also a one-way agreement. When is the last time you heard of a Human Resources, DIB, or "Member Working Group" called out for not upholding the CoE that they wrote? When is the last time you witnessed a CoE violation in the way of bad hiring practices (for the sake of "diversity")? At this point in my career I feel I could give a whole talk about CoE violations, form and the whole process of writing the code. I won't bore the reader here though.

I do agree with you on the power dynamics that may plague some workplaces today. It feels as though there is a greater burden or accountability placed on the lower-level employees more than the c-suite. What do you think if we speak to the value of a code of ethics separately from the unfortunate power dynamics some companies have chosen?

kragen 4y ago

I think the code of ethics of the American Bar Association prohibits lawyers from accepting a position where they are bound to obey non-lawyers. That is, you can have a boss, but only if they're another lawyer.

nradov 4y ago
There are thousands of lawyers who work as internal corporate counsel and report to non-lawyer managers. The actual prohibition is on sharing legal fees or forming partnerships with non-lawyers (although certain exceptions are allowed). https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibility/publications/model_rules_of_professional_conduct/rule_5_4_professional_independence_of_a_lawyer/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/professional_responsibili...
- kragen 4y ago
  Interesting, thank you for the correction; the part I was referring to is §5.4(c): "A lawyer shall not permit a person who recommends, employs, or pays the lawyer to render legal services for another to direct or regulate the lawyer's professional judgment in rendering such legal services." And §5.4(d)(3) which sort of says the same thing.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

no-dr-onboard 4y ago

I love that people took the time and effort to draft this, but boy am I jaded on the practicality of these things. CoE's are inherently utopian and seldom adhered to behind closed doors. My take is that at best, CoE's are for instilling homogeneity by outlining predefined, unquestionable set of shibboleth's for the working class. At it's worst, CoE's are just CYA measures outlined and enforced to avoid lawsuits. Few truly believe. Most CoE's are also a one-way agreement. When is the last time you heard of a Human Resources, DIB, or "Member Working Group" called out for not upholding the CoE that they wrote? When is the last time you witnessed a CoE violation in the way of bad hiring practices (for the sake of "diversity")? At this point in my career I feel I could give a whole talk about CoE violations, form and the whole process of writing the code. I won't bore the reader here though.