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One thing I never understood about this passkeys thing is: how will the passkeys database be kept in sync between your iPhone, your Windows desktop, your Linux
by mort96 4y ago
One thing I never understood about this passkeys thing is: how will the passkeys database be kept in sync between your iPhone, your Windows desktop, your Linux laptop and your Android tablet? I've tried to research the topic a bit but everything I've been able to find has been about exporting and importing between ecosystems, but most people don't use only a single company's products.
- charles_kaw 4y ago
- huijzer 4y agoApple has a long history of working best together with Apple. For example, the iPod music players only worked with iTunes. I think that Apple hopes that such features cause people to switch more of their electronics to Apple
- hsbauauvhabzb 4y agoAnd the educated consumer hopes one of these players will push to face and trigger anticompetitive legislation.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mort96 4y agoSure, but this is trying to replace passwords. As much as Apple would want it different, there's a whole lot of people who use one Apple device but has other devices from other manufacturers, and surely an industry effort like FIDO to replace passwords would take that into account?
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> there's a whole lot of people who use one Apple device but has other devices from other manufacturers, and surely an industry effort like FIDO to replace passwords would take that into account? They're not the beachhead. Once the product is tuned for core users, it can be expanded to more complex use cases. This is basic product development, and something Apple gets right.
- izacus 4y agoApple made talking to family, friends and other people a moat to keep people in their walled garden. Taking control of your passwords is extension of that strategy, not something they feel bad about.
- hammyhavoc 4y agoUh, iPods could be used with plenty of third-party software, including WinAmp, foobar2000, MediaMonkey. I could go on for another several minutes rattling off names.
- Y-bar 4y agoPasswords are synced to Windows via iCloud, i suppose these keys would be synced like that as well: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/icloud-windows/icwd3c1cca5e/icloud https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/icloud-windows/icwd3c1...
- mort96 4y agoRight, but all software which uses passwords would need to support it too, right? I'm not confident that all of the Windows ecosystem will adopt iCloud for passkeys, nor am I confident that Apple will tightly integrate into whatever system thing Microsoft puts in Windows to manage FIDO keys... This isn't like a password manager after all, where getting the key in your clipboard is a universal way to use it anywhere you want.
- WorldMaker 4y agoApple says they are working with Microsoft and Google to meet all FIDO standards on this. It's still early days, but FIDO as a standards body does seem to be working towards standards for working with heterogenous keychains. Given how many users use Chrome on Windows and have an iOS device, I think heterogenous keychains are going to be critical to mass adoption and everyone says they are working towards that. A lot of this may be on FIDO to truly coordinate.
- zxcvgm 4y agoThe passkeys are only synced across Apple devices, via iCloud keychain. Trying to sign in on another device (e.g. Windows laptop, Android phone) will require scanning a QR code. The devices then establish a secure channel using FIDO caBLE v2 (introduced by Google/Chrome, I believe) to perform the authentication. This ensures the passkeys never leave your Apple device, but can still be used on other devices. You can see the sign-in user experience here, when they use a non-Apple device: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/10092/ https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2022/10092/
- mort96 4y agoAha, so you get a significantly worse experience if you're not 100% in the Apple ecosystem, and you can't sign in at all if you don't have your Apple device on you. I'll keep using passwords, thanks.
- threeseed 4y agoIf you are using passwords that you can remember without your phone then I assume it's pretty basic and insecure.
- elashri 4y agoYou can use password manager that is cross platform. You can even use something like KeePassXC and sync the database between devices. All encrypted and secure without even having a phone if you want. You don't need to remember passwords without or with your phone.
- mort96 4y agoPresenting this as a choice between using Apple's closed solution or using easy-to-remember passwords is disingenuous. Please don't participate in the discussion if you're going to be this bad faith.
- sbuk 4y ago> Please don't participate in the discussion if you're going to be this bad faith. That works both ways. You've asked a question, to which the information is easily accessible online[https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT213305 https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT213305]. It very clear from both the article and other online sources that this is based on WebAuthN[https://webauthn.guide https://webauthn.guide]. You have been equally as disingenuous and based on your responses, acted in bad faith from the beginning in a bid to start a flamewar. How what you are doing is anything but basic bullying is beyond me.
- izacus 4y agoIn words of Tim Cook on the last event: "Just buy an iPhone (or a Mac and an iPad)". Making your experience bad on non-Apple devices is part of the design, not accident.
- threeseed 4y agoI worked at Apple and no one is deliberately making the experience bad on non-Apple devices. They just have a million things they want to do, limited resources and so they simply don't prioritise it.
- manigandham 4y agoThe multi-trillion dollar megacorporation does not have "limited resources" when it comes to interoperability of such a core security feature.
- soco 4y agoPotato, potahto. So they deliberately don't prioritise it.
- amelius 4y agoThis is still quite bad, just like omitting the truth is a form of lying.
- emptyfile 4y ago> limited resources haha, oh really?
- sofixa 4y agoUsing "limited resources" while talking about Apple is surely a joke, right?
- threeseed 4y agoYou should read the Mythical Man-Month. You can't just add unlimited developers to a project and expect it to be productive or sustainable. No different at Meta, Spotify, Netflix etc.
- cm2187 4y agoWhat does the passkey database contain? Only the master private key? Or does a private key or token gets generated for every new account I sign up to?