5 ms·

You may underestimate how truly horrific some of the online communications are in any non-trivial service. Especially when kids are involved. Having been expo

You may underestimate how truly horrific some of the online communications are in any non-trivial service. Especially when kids are involved. Having been exposed to some of the stuff going on at other companies communication systems, I have total sympathy for mojang wanting some people off of all their platforms, forever. Most any system is built like this from the ground up, it’s rather surprising it took them this long.

Georgelemental 4y ago
Is it "their" platform if the server is hosted by people who are not them on hardware that is not theirs? They are just selling a license to use their executables, no? Or should be (I don't play Minecraft)
- api 4y ago
  Software that you run that is under your control? How quaint.
- ryeights 4y ago
  >They are just selling a license to use their executables, no? Yes.
- lolinder 4y ago
  In the event of abuse, parents won't draw that distinction and neither would a Twitter mob. Microsoft needs to be able to point to something concrete they're doing to keep kids safe or they're risking a scandal.
  - TobyTheDog123 4y ago
    A Twitter mob should not have that kind of power and if parents don't understand how Minecraft, the most popular game of the last decade+, works by now, they never will. It's appeasing a crowd that cannot and should not be appeased.
    - NoToP 4y ago
      Yes but these people vote and it counts the same as yours.
    - philistine 4y ago
      You are putting a moral limit on what Microsoft should be able to do with Minecraft, not a technical one. Who's to say your morals are better ?
      - TobyTheDog123 4y ago
        >Who's to say your morals are better? The vast majority of dedicated players, common sense, and history.
    - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
      Twitter mobs have gotten people fired, ostracized from society and the cops called on them. Twitter mobs are extremely powerful, but many don't see that because they agree with the mob. But the mob comes for everyone.
    - colinmhayes 4y ago
      Your opinion on what power twitter mobs should have is pretty irrelevant. The reality is that they do have power, and game developers have to deal with that reality.
      - TobyTheDog123 4y ago
        You seem to be saying that game developers have to keep feeding the beast, so to speak. Game developers don't have to do anything. They choose to, and the Twitter mob grows more powerful as a result. It's my opinion that they should stop doing that, because, as they say, the mob comes for all.
  - tarakat 4y ago
    And who has been the greatest cheerleader of this totalitarian corporate control, where nothing happens on a platform without the blessing of its corporate master? MS have only themselves to blame, for they did everything in their power to erase that distinction. Maybe in addition to educating users on inclusive language in MS Word [1], they could educate users about the very basics of how computers work. But that would go against MS's interests. [1] https://www.windowscentral.com/new-microsoft-word-feature-will-use-ai-offer-inclusive-language-suggestions https://www.windowscentral.com/new-microsoft-word-feature-wi...
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    For servers that kids are supposed to be on, sure. Not all servers.
    - watwut 4y ago
      Doxxing and raids on individuals, targeted sexual harassments, there are all kinds of online actions we keep away from adult oriented internet services too.
      - oynqr 4y ago
        Account bans are not sufficient to prevent that. Never have been.
      - Dylan16807 4y ago
        Maybe for very extreme things, but that's a very different setup from globally moderating profanity, nudity, alcohol, etc.
- dodobirdlord 4y ago
  If it’s entirely self-hosted servers on the user’s own hardware, then how could Microsoft ban them? What would that even mean? Microsoft’s systems must somehow be involved for a ban to have any meaning.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    They do authentication. And if you're banned they will refuse to give you your token.
thrown_22 4y ago
> You may underestimate how truly horrific some of the online communications are in any non-trivial service. Especially when kids are involved. Then parents should take care of their kids. This is like dropping them off on a random street corner and then complaining someone is fucking in an adjacent alley. The world isn't kid safe and it shouldn't be.
- dodobirdlord 4y ago
  Yes, but Minecraft isn’t real life, it’s a fake world made for kids.
  - thrown_22 4y ago
    It's a fake world made for everyone. Or Microsoft should add a "0-12 only" tag to the game.
klabb3 4y ago
> Having been exposed to some of the stuff going on at other companies communication systems, I have total sympathy for mojang wanting some people off of all their platforms, forever. Be my damn guest, as long as it's operated by Microsoft (their public vetted list of servers, realms and so on). However, Minecraft has a jar server that you can download and run yourself, which Microsoft has no business interfering with. If I want to i can setup a "Minecraft against humanity" server and invite my friends, nobody should give two shits. Just monitoring speech at all on a private server makes no sense, and should 100% be opt in. More generally, the solution to moderation is often private or semi-private groups. There's no one size fits all moderation rules, so as far as possible let people moderate their own spaces. Otherwise you're just renting you speech permissions from a corporation.

Georgelemental 4y ago

Is it "their" platform if the server is hosted by people who are not them on hardware that is not theirs? They are just selling a license to use their executables, no? Or should be (I don't play Minecraft)

api 4y ago
Software that you run that is under your control? How quaint.
ryeights 4y ago
>They are just selling a license to use their executables, no? Yes.
lolinder 4y ago
In the event of abuse, parents won't draw that distinction and neither would a Twitter mob. Microsoft needs to be able to point to something concrete they're doing to keep kids safe or they're risking a scandal.
- TobyTheDog123 4y ago
  A Twitter mob should not have that kind of power and if parents don't understand how Minecraft, the most popular game of the last decade+, works by now, they never will. It's appeasing a crowd that cannot and should not be appeased.
  - NoToP 4y ago
    Yes but these people vote and it counts the same as yours.
  - philistine 4y ago
    You are putting a moral limit on what Microsoft should be able to do with Minecraft, not a technical one. Who's to say your morals are better ?
    - TobyTheDog123 4y ago
      >Who's to say your morals are better? The vast majority of dedicated players, common sense, and history.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
    Twitter mobs have gotten people fired, ostracized from society and the cops called on them. Twitter mobs are extremely powerful, but many don't see that because they agree with the mob. But the mob comes for everyone.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    Your opinion on what power twitter mobs should have is pretty irrelevant. The reality is that they do have power, and game developers have to deal with that reality.
    - TobyTheDog123 4y ago
      You seem to be saying that game developers have to keep feeding the beast, so to speak. Game developers don't have to do anything. They choose to, and the Twitter mob grows more powerful as a result. It's my opinion that they should stop doing that, because, as they say, the mob comes for all.
- tarakat 4y ago
  And who has been the greatest cheerleader of this totalitarian corporate control, where nothing happens on a platform without the blessing of its corporate master? MS have only themselves to blame, for they did everything in their power to erase that distinction. Maybe in addition to educating users on inclusive language in MS Word [1], they could educate users about the very basics of how computers work. But that would go against MS's interests. [1] https://www.windowscentral.com/new-microsoft-word-feature-will-use-ai-offer-inclusive-language-suggestions https://www.windowscentral.com/new-microsoft-word-feature-wi...
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  For servers that kids are supposed to be on, sure. Not all servers.
  - watwut 4y ago
    Doxxing and raids on individuals, targeted sexual harassments, there are all kinds of online actions we keep away from adult oriented internet services too.
    - oynqr 4y ago
      Account bans are not sufficient to prevent that. Never have been.
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      Maybe for very extreme things, but that's a very different setup from globally moderating profanity, nudity, alcohol, etc.
dodobirdlord 4y ago
If it’s entirely self-hosted servers on the user’s own hardware, then how could Microsoft ban them? What would that even mean? Microsoft’s systems must somehow be involved for a ban to have any meaning.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  They do authentication. And if you're banned they will refuse to give you your token.

thrown_22 4y ago

> You may underestimate how truly horrific some of the online communications are in any non-trivial service. Especially when kids are involved. Then parents should take care of their kids. This is like dropping them off on a random street corner and then complaining someone is fucking in an adjacent alley. The world isn't kid safe and it shouldn't be.

dodobirdlord 4y ago
Yes, but Minecraft isn’t real life, it’s a fake world made for kids.
- thrown_22 4y ago
  It's a fake world made for everyone. Or Microsoft should add a "0-12 only" tag to the game.

klabb3 4y ago

> Having been exposed to some of the stuff going on at other companies communication systems, I have total sympathy for mojang wanting some people off of all their platforms, forever. Be my damn guest, as long as it's operated by Microsoft (their public vetted list of servers, realms and so on). However, Minecraft has a jar server that you can download and run yourself, which Microsoft has no business interfering with. If I want to i can setup a "Minecraft against humanity" server and invite my friends, nobody should give two shits. Just monitoring speech at all on a private server makes no sense, and should 100% be opt in. More generally, the solution to moderation is often private or semi-private groups. There's no one size fits all moderation rules, so as far as possible let people moderate their own spaces. Otherwise you're just renting you speech permissions from a corporation.