12 ms·

I have to say, this is cool and surreal in some way. It's just surreal to think of international treaties as being objects with a "last updated time." Given t

I have to say, this is cool and surreal in some way. It's just surreal to think of international treaties as being objects with a "last updated time." Given the massive human apparatus constantly parsing this information from Capitol Hill, I'm not sure what the use-case is for an app, but nonetheless, it's cool. Now... if we could get this for every state and county legislature, that would enable some interesting use cases to track parallel legislative initiatives (usually advocated by corporations / non-profits).

ElevenLathe 4y ago
This actually also exists in https://openstates.org/ https://openstates.org/, but it's a separate nonprofit, not a government service.
dheera 4y ago
Now if only we could have an API to vote ...
- cookie_monsta 4y ago
  Cue the obligatory xkcd...
  - Shared404 4y ago
    For those unfamiliar: https://xkcd.com/2030/ https://xkcd.com/2030/
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      software engineering is like steam engines were in their first 50 years - they could explode at any time, and had multiple spinning parts that will rip off your arm if you are in the wrong place
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- o_1 4y ago
  let's all make an bot to read bills and vote on our behalf.
- sofixa 4y ago
  Way too complicated to implement securely, anonymously and transparently. Going physically somewhere to click on a button after a human identification is probably as technologically advanced as we're going to get in the near future. I mean sure, with the EU's NFC chips in passports and ID cards there can be an app that compares that to a 3D selfie (there are already apps that do that for lesser government services), but the risks associated in getting it wrong are still too great. Not to mention the lack of transparency which is paramount for a healthy democracy.
  - throw_nbvc1234 4y ago
    It'd be interesting to explore transparent/public voting combined with an in person way to correct/lock_in your vote. Instead of having a voting day let people vote over a month and be able to lock in their vote in person at any time. Maybe not use it for elections but maybe for polling on issues or a replacement for petitions and/or referendums. Enabling some aspects of direct democracy especially at local levels. But i think this would need to be public or overly transparent to enable people to trust the outcome or become aware of any attacks on the system.
    - colejohnson66 4y ago
      The closest we have to that is paper ballots. You can get your ballot a few weeks in advance and vote then. Then, until the “postmarked no later than” date, you can change your vote if so desired.
  - permo-w 4y ago
    Estonia manages it
    - jimhi 4y ago
      If Estonia had the GDP, political influence, or military of the USA it might not hold up to the same level of attacks. It also helps that their population and schooling system prioritizes coding and technical literacy.
    - 4y ago
- bloppe 4y ago
  The fact of the matter is: paper is still basically the most advanced voting technology around (from the perspective of auditability, which is crucial)
  - Aunche 4y ago
    Just release make everyone's vote semi-public. You can look up what you voted for with a combination of your name + position/ballot-measure + password that's passed through a one-way hash, which generates anonymous voter ID. You can file a complaint what was counted doesn't match who you remember voting for.
    - meowkit 4y ago
      Problem is you are incentivizing people to sell their vote or to threaten others to vote a specific way (abusive spouse wants to verify their SO voted a certain way). The only info we should provide electronically is that your vote was counted at all. Direct value verification would have to be done in person and under supervision.
      - leesalminen 4y ago
        With widespread mail-in voting an abusive spouse could just fill in the ballot and drop it in the mailbox. No need to verify your spouse’s actions if you can just do it yourself.
        vkou 4y ago
        The relevant threat model isn't the abusive spouse who has physical access to your ballot, the relevant threat model is someone without physical access to your ballot being able to verify that you voted the way they wanted you to.
        ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        This is clearly clueless In Russia all state employees, say school teachers, are told to vote the right way under no uncertain terms. But come the election day, and it is not physically possible to inspect what everyone is doing with paper ballots. If it was possible to digitally check voting, the regime would be even more repressive. If you have an abusive spouse, voting is your last problem.
- nonethewiser 4y ago
  Seriously?
seaourfreed 4y ago
GREAT, BUT! We need an API on who wrote which parts of the bill. Find lobbyists who wrote parts. Find when there is an evil part (where lobbyists get congress to sell out), and we need to find out WHICH congress person put it in there. We need to track the evil parts of bills to the congress person who is the sell out for lobbyists (and the corporations beind them)
- matthoiland 4y ago
  I'd love to see a git history for our current US legislation
  - tstrimple 4y ago
    Yes. We need git-blame here.
  - e_i_pi_2 4y ago
    You're in luck, someone recreated the constitution in git with the history of edits https://github.com/jessekphillips/usa-constitution https://github.com/jessekphillips/usa-constitution Edit: just noticed the dates aren't accurate, but still interesting and the authors are accurate
    - judge2020 4y ago
      Can git do pre-1970 dates?
      - progval 4y ago
        The file/wire format can, but the official implementation doesn't handle it well. There is some work in progress to make it work, for this kind of historical work.
  - quadratecode 4y ago
    There is a project doing exactly this for German law.[1] I also once cobbled together a rather primitive Python script which commits Swiss federal law as MD-file into a repo through GitHub actions.[2] [1] https://github.com/bundestag/gesetze https://github.com/bundestag/gesetze [2] https://github.com/quadratecode/ch-law-tracker https://github.com/quadratecode/ch-law-tracker
sgammon 4y ago
fiscalnote.com govtrack.us opensecrets.org openstates.org
lordofmoria 4y ago
There's all sorts of cool data analysis that can be done with this data. I lead engineering for a company that ingests these open APIs and sells a service that enhances the metadata on these records and allows users to follow new changes in bills/legislation (think: following a PR). You'd be surprised how many organizations want it, and I don't just mean large corps (yeah, I know...but see the discussion around transparency below in the comments!). We have a lot of very cool institutions as well. If you're a Rails dev or like Data Science, we have some openings: https://careers.fiscalnote.com/ https://careers.fiscalnote.com/
- dogman144 4y ago
  Hah I was hoping this idea wasn’t out there yet in production. Cool company! What’s the funding model?
  - lordofmoria 4y ago
    We’re newly public (NYSE:NOTE), so customers and ARR :)
    - dogman144 4y ago
      That’s very cool, I think ideas that bring tablestakes tech (elasisearch or whatever) to non-tech areas will start to take off.
vishnugupta 4y ago
> if we could get this for every state and county legislature Not an official source but someone took the pain of creating a GitHub repo of Indian constitution with amendments as commits[1]. Here's one commit[2] for example that's about modifying some affirmative action details. [1] https://github.com/prince-mishra/the-constitution-of-india/commits/master https://github.com/prince-mishra/the-constitution-of-india/c... [2] https://github.com/prince-mishra/the-constitution-of-india/commit/27148613dbb547d1b75da33a480dbf9d179537b4 https://github.com/prince-mishra/the-constitution-of-india/c...

ElevenLathe 4y ago

This actually also exists in https://openstates.org/ https://openstates.org/, but it's a separate nonprofit, not a government service.

dheera 4y ago

Now if only we could have an API to vote ...

cookie_monsta 4y ago
Cue the obligatory xkcd...
- Shared404 4y ago
  For those unfamiliar: https://xkcd.com/2030/ https://xkcd.com/2030/
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    software engineering is like steam engines were in their first 50 years - they could explode at any time, and had multiple spinning parts that will rip off your arm if you are in the wrong place
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
o_1 4y ago
let's all make an bot to read bills and vote on our behalf.
sofixa 4y ago
Way too complicated to implement securely, anonymously and transparently. Going physically somewhere to click on a button after a human identification is probably as technologically advanced as we're going to get in the near future. I mean sure, with the EU's NFC chips in passports and ID cards there can be an app that compares that to a 3D selfie (there are already apps that do that for lesser government services), but the risks associated in getting it wrong are still too great. Not to mention the lack of transparency which is paramount for a healthy democracy.
- throw_nbvc1234 4y ago
  It'd be interesting to explore transparent/public voting combined with an in person way to correct/lock_in your vote. Instead of having a voting day let people vote over a month and be able to lock in their vote in person at any time. Maybe not use it for elections but maybe for polling on issues or a replacement for petitions and/or referendums. Enabling some aspects of direct democracy especially at local levels. But i think this would need to be public or overly transparent to enable people to trust the outcome or become aware of any attacks on the system.
  - colejohnson66 4y ago
    The closest we have to that is paper ballots. You can get your ballot a few weeks in advance and vote then. Then, until the “postmarked no later than” date, you can change your vote if so desired.
- permo-w 4y ago
  Estonia manages it
  - jimhi 4y ago
    If Estonia had the GDP, political influence, or military of the USA it might not hold up to the same level of attacks. It also helps that their population and schooling system prioritizes coding and technical literacy.
  - 4y ago
bloppe 4y ago
The fact of the matter is: paper is still basically the most advanced voting technology around (from the perspective of auditability, which is crucial)
- Aunche 4y ago
  Just release make everyone's vote semi-public. You can look up what you voted for with a combination of your name + position/ballot-measure + password that's passed through a one-way hash, which generates anonymous voter ID. You can file a complaint what was counted doesn't match who you remember voting for.
  - meowkit 4y ago
    Problem is you are incentivizing people to sell their vote or to threaten others to vote a specific way (abusive spouse wants to verify their SO voted a certain way). The only info we should provide electronically is that your vote was counted at all. Direct value verification would have to be done in person and under supervision.
    - leesalminen 4y ago
      With widespread mail-in voting an abusive spouse could just fill in the ballot and drop it in the mailbox. No need to verify your spouse’s actions if you can just do it yourself.
      - vkou 4y ago
        The relevant threat model isn't the abusive spouse who has physical access to your ballot, the relevant threat model is someone without physical access to your ballot being able to verify that you voted the way they wanted you to.
      - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        This is clearly clueless In Russia all state employees, say school teachers, are told to vote the right way under no uncertain terms. But come the election day, and it is not physically possible to inspect what everyone is doing with paper ballots. If it was possible to digitally check voting, the regime would be even more repressive. If you have an abusive spouse, voting is your last problem.
nonethewiser 4y ago
Seriously?

seaourfreed 4y ago

GREAT, BUT! We need an API on who wrote which parts of the bill. Find lobbyists who wrote parts. Find when there is an evil part (where lobbyists get congress to sell out), and we need to find out WHICH congress person put it in there. We need to track the evil parts of bills to the congress person who is the sell out for lobbyists (and the corporations beind them)

matthoiland 4y ago
I'd love to see a git history for our current US legislation
- tstrimple 4y ago
  Yes. We need git-blame here.
- e_i_pi_2 4y ago
  You're in luck, someone recreated the constitution in git with the history of edits https://github.com/jessekphillips/usa-constitution https://github.com/jessekphillips/usa-constitution Edit: just noticed the dates aren't accurate, but still interesting and the authors are accurate
  - judge2020 4y ago
    Can git do pre-1970 dates?
    - progval 4y ago
      The file/wire format can, but the official implementation doesn't handle it well. There is some work in progress to make it work, for this kind of historical work.
- quadratecode 4y ago
  There is a project doing exactly this for German law.[1] I also once cobbled together a rather primitive Python script which commits Swiss federal law as MD-file into a repo through GitHub actions.[2] [1] https://github.com/bundestag/gesetze https://github.com/bundestag/gesetze [2] https://github.com/quadratecode/ch-law-tracker https://github.com/quadratecode/ch-law-tracker

sgammon 4y ago

fiscalnote.com govtrack.us opensecrets.org openstates.org

lordofmoria 4y ago

There's all sorts of cool data analysis that can be done with this data. I lead engineering for a company that ingests these open APIs and sells a service that enhances the metadata on these records and allows users to follow new changes in bills/legislation (think: following a PR). You'd be surprised how many organizations want it, and I don't just mean large corps (yeah, I know...but see the discussion around transparency below in the comments!). We have a lot of very cool institutions as well. If you're a Rails dev or like Data Science, we have some openings: https://careers.fiscalnote.com/ https://careers.fiscalnote.com/

dogman144 4y ago
Hah I was hoping this idea wasn’t out there yet in production. Cool company! What’s the funding model?
- lordofmoria 4y ago
  We’re newly public (NYSE:NOTE), so customers and ARR :)
  - dogman144 4y ago
    That’s very cool, I think ideas that bring tablestakes tech (elasisearch or whatever) to non-tech areas will start to take off.

vishnugupta 4y ago

> if we could get this for every state and county legislature Not an official source but someone took the pain of creating a GitHub repo of Indian constitution with amendments as commits[1]. Here's one commit[2] for example that's about modifying some affirmative action details. [1] https://github.com/prince-mishra/the-constitution-of-india/commits/master https://github.com/prince-mishra/the-constitution-of-india/c... [2] https://github.com/prince-mishra/the-constitution-of-india/commit/27148613dbb547d1b75da33a480dbf9d179537b4 https://github.com/prince-mishra/the-constitution-of-india/c...