5 ms·

A friend recently got what he thought was a great gig with an engineering firm - turned out it was more of a cult - rah rah sessions, after work bowling, softba

A friend recently got what he thought was a great gig with an engineering firm - turned out it was more of a cult - rah rah sessions, after work bowling, softball - and they weren’t shy about shunning anybody who didn’t want all in right away. He got bullied and saw others bullied too - we figure it’s why they prefer to intern pipeline and hire and retain - a lot easier to brainwash when young. I mean it’s not a bad company, they do strong and good work - but acting like it’s the best place ever? Well, most of them have only worked there. We were like, offhand we’ve each had two better jobs than that one.[0] They used culture as a bait for lower pay too. There’s something really disturbing about a company in 2022 wanting to act like a cult rather than accept the job market is turning more mercenary by the day. Oh well, their choice to fail. [0] - Daniel Tosh “America #1” stand up bit for reference

Invictus0 4y ago
Name and shame please.
- 6stringmerc 4y ago
  Not until the payout is in the bank, but yes there will be a reckoning for their unethical wickedness toward innocent well-meaning employees who just didn’t want to drink the kool-aid.
bsenftner 4y ago
I wish I could say this is not normal, but I see this everywhere: employers want cult-like fiefdoms, and many are successful creating them. These companies are filled with young developers who completely drink the kool-aid and become no less than fan-boys for their oppressor, as anyone that has had more than 1 job would look at the environment as darkly Orwellian.
- slfnflctd 4y ago
  Alternatively, some may prefer a basic safe haven from all the chaos out there, because their temperaments make too much rapid change intolerable. Past a certain point, this sort of neurodivergence can be severely detrimental for no good reason, but I do understand why sometimes people accept a non-optimal situation for a while just to have some stability and simplify their lives.
jongjong 4y ago
Having worked for many different tech companies, the concept of 'cult companies' seems like a trend. Though I can't say for sure if this is only affecting the tech industry or all industries. One of my ex-colleagues was hired straight out of university by a company and he did not take a single holiday in 4 years because his boss would always try to make him feel guilty or would imply that there would likely be negative consequences for him as an employee. After he eventually quit and changed companies, he had very low expectations and he couldn't believe how much better that second company was... It was a startup so it wasn't exactly low-stress by my standards; it goes to show how extreme the differences can be between companies that even a job which I considered challenging seemed like a walk in the park to him given what he had experienced before.
- throwaway2037 4y ago
  Years ago, I had a very local Hongkong Chinese boss. My holidays were constantly being challenged as "Hey, can you move that holiday?" By dumb luck, I was listening to him one day talk to his boss about an upcoming wedding. "It is so important. I cannot miss that wedding." After that, every single holiday of mine was a wedding or funeral. And I heard him several times "defend" my holiday plans: "Oh, he cannot move that holiday -- wedding/funeral". Ri-don-kulous!
  - jongjong 4y ago
    That's a great example of how people tend to build complex ethical models in their minds to maintain the illusion that they are just and consistent with others.
    - throwaway2037 4y ago
      This is great reply. Do you think this has been written about in "pop" or academic psychology or sociology? I would like to read more about this idea.
b112 4y ago
Oracle?
- 6stringmerc 4y ago
  Negative - as mentioned in a couple other comments here, a different industry. Not a really large company either, like 1700 people, which is a good place as a private firm with a 60% margin on professional services and low overhead… I worked at Best Buy so I recognized the signs immediately. The expression was “man he/she really bleeds blue” and if you hung out with the managers after work - because they all hung out together (and drove the same Scions lol) - you’d be in line for the next promotion. For some people that was a good path. Store Manager life and pay is legit. It’s definitely a “high school hero” type thing where there’s not of lot of experience with leadership outside of sports like football. If it’s all they know, yeah, it’s their playbook. Fortunately here in Texas I know that playbook and I’m helping him go Mike Leach on them and they’re really surprised and not taking it well. Which is good for him.
  - Supermancho 4y ago
    Note: The blue-shirt Best Buy experience is certainly cultish. The software developer side of Best Buy is not (unless you count wokeness and scrum-agile cultish).
    - 6stringmerc 4y ago
      I know there’s a big difference between corp and retail there. MN hq and all. I did abuse the heck out of the BB IT at the time using flash drives and paint.exe admin tricks.
  - throwaway2037 4y ago
    Why is this downvoted? It is a good post.
    - 6stringmerc 4y ago
      I was speaking about my Best Buy Retail experience but they do have other large operations that are different. I’m not sure what drugs the Shipping people are on though - we routinely shuffled 40+ unsold copies of The Benchwarmers into a bye bye crate and they’d show back up a month later but 50+. They were inventory gaming and probably doing some book cooking now when I look back on it.
throwaway2037 4y ago
This was exactly my experience at Goldman Sachs. Sorry, I should be posting under a throw-away, but let's be real for a moment. That place was nothing but a cult. Yes, they make lots of money, but you need to sell your soul. I never worked in a place with so many sheep (non-believers but scared to speak-up) and assholes (believers, only because they profit / climb the corporate ladder) _at the same time_. Fortunately, I escaped after two years of that prison sentence. (The whole experience feels like Shawshank Redemption when I write about it now!) All the global investment banks where I have worked, Goldman had the fewest number of mid-career/senior hires. The intern/fresher pipeline was so deep. Now I understand why! They are so much easier to brain-wash. Two stories stand out in my new hire training: We had multiple "partners" (super senior, old-school MDs) tell us: "At Goldman, there is not publically available org chart." Fucking dead wrong. I raised my hand at each of those bullshit meetings and said, "I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. There is a website where you can view and search the org chart." (It was amazing -- no lie/joke.) Each PMD was so "surprised" to learn this. Not sure if real, or encouraging people to do face-to-face networking. Second, they showed all these weird propaganda videos about how Goldman is closely tied with the US gov't, especially during World War 2. So weird, creepy, and out of date! Many senior partners leave Goldman and enter US politics. In American English, they call it "the revolving door" (between private industry and politics). Many democracies have this problem. But why celebrate it? Fuct! The whole thing felt so sleazy. Why is this important to non-US citizens? Many people looked bored and only read their mobile phones during these 90 minute(!) videos.
- nkurz 4y ago
  > Sorry, I should be posting under a throw-away Nice post, and I upvoted, but it might say something about your personality that you seem to consider 'throwaway2037' a part of your identity and not a throw-away. It makes me wonder if some of what you consider to be a 'cult' might just be what others think of as 'community'.
  - jakzurr 4y ago
    Yeah, I'm kinda chuckling about this. But I'm also wondering if it was a typo, and they actually meant, "Sorry, I shouldn't be..."
HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
> He got bullied and saw others bullied too > I mean it’s not a bad company These two statements cannot exist together when discussing the same organization.
- 6stringmerc 4y ago
  One department is all he can speak to so the others might be unicorns and elf burps.

Invictus0 4y ago

Name and shame please.

6stringmerc 4y ago
Not until the payout is in the bank, but yes there will be a reckoning for their unethical wickedness toward innocent well-meaning employees who just didn’t want to drink the kool-aid.

bsenftner 4y ago

I wish I could say this is not normal, but I see this everywhere: employers want cult-like fiefdoms, and many are successful creating them. These companies are filled with young developers who completely drink the kool-aid and become no less than fan-boys for their oppressor, as anyone that has had more than 1 job would look at the environment as darkly Orwellian.

slfnflctd 4y ago
Alternatively, some may prefer a basic safe haven from all the chaos out there, because their temperaments make too much rapid change intolerable. Past a certain point, this sort of neurodivergence can be severely detrimental for no good reason, but I do understand why sometimes people accept a non-optimal situation for a while just to have some stability and simplify their lives.

jongjong 4y ago

Having worked for many different tech companies, the concept of 'cult companies' seems like a trend. Though I can't say for sure if this is only affecting the tech industry or all industries. One of my ex-colleagues was hired straight out of university by a company and he did not take a single holiday in 4 years because his boss would always try to make him feel guilty or would imply that there would likely be negative consequences for him as an employee. After he eventually quit and changed companies, he had very low expectations and he couldn't believe how much better that second company was... It was a startup so it wasn't exactly low-stress by my standards; it goes to show how extreme the differences can be between companies that even a job which I considered challenging seemed like a walk in the park to him given what he had experienced before.

throwaway2037 4y ago
Years ago, I had a very local Hongkong Chinese boss. My holidays were constantly being challenged as "Hey, can you move that holiday?" By dumb luck, I was listening to him one day talk to his boss about an upcoming wedding. "It is so important. I cannot miss that wedding." After that, every single holiday of mine was a wedding or funeral. And I heard him several times "defend" my holiday plans: "Oh, he cannot move that holiday -- wedding/funeral". Ri-don-kulous!
- jongjong 4y ago
  That's a great example of how people tend to build complex ethical models in their minds to maintain the illusion that they are just and consistent with others.
  - throwaway2037 4y ago
    This is great reply. Do you think this has been written about in "pop" or academic psychology or sociology? I would like to read more about this idea.

b112 4y ago

Oracle?

6stringmerc 4y ago
Negative - as mentioned in a couple other comments here, a different industry. Not a really large company either, like 1700 people, which is a good place as a private firm with a 60% margin on professional services and low overhead… I worked at Best Buy so I recognized the signs immediately. The expression was “man he/she really bleeds blue” and if you hung out with the managers after work - because they all hung out together (and drove the same Scions lol) - you’d be in line for the next promotion. For some people that was a good path. Store Manager life and pay is legit. It’s definitely a “high school hero” type thing where there’s not of lot of experience with leadership outside of sports like football. If it’s all they know, yeah, it’s their playbook. Fortunately here in Texas I know that playbook and I’m helping him go Mike Leach on them and they’re really surprised and not taking it well. Which is good for him.
- Supermancho 4y ago
  Note: The blue-shirt Best Buy experience is certainly cultish. The software developer side of Best Buy is not (unless you count wokeness and scrum-agile cultish).
  - 6stringmerc 4y ago
    I know there’s a big difference between corp and retail there. MN hq and all. I did abuse the heck out of the BB IT at the time using flash drives and paint.exe admin tricks.
- throwaway2037 4y ago
  Why is this downvoted? It is a good post.
  - 6stringmerc 4y ago
    I was speaking about my Best Buy Retail experience but they do have other large operations that are different. I’m not sure what drugs the Shipping people are on though - we routinely shuffled 40+ unsold copies of The Benchwarmers into a bye bye crate and they’d show back up a month later but 50+. They were inventory gaming and probably doing some book cooking now when I look back on it.

throwaway2037 4y ago

This was exactly my experience at Goldman Sachs. Sorry, I should be posting under a throw-away, but let's be real for a moment. That place was nothing but a cult. Yes, they make lots of money, but you need to sell your soul. I never worked in a place with so many sheep (non-believers but scared to speak-up) and assholes (believers, only because they profit / climb the corporate ladder) _at the same time_. Fortunately, I escaped after two years of that prison sentence. (The whole experience feels like Shawshank Redemption when I write about it now!) All the global investment banks where I have worked, Goldman had the fewest number of mid-career/senior hires. The intern/fresher pipeline was so deep. Now I understand why! They are so much easier to brain-wash. Two stories stand out in my new hire training: We had multiple "partners" (super senior, old-school MDs) tell us: "At Goldman, there is not publically available org chart." Fucking dead wrong. I raised my hand at each of those bullshit meetings and said, "I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. There is a website where you can view and search the org chart." (It was amazing -- no lie/joke.) Each PMD was so "surprised" to learn this. Not sure if real, or encouraging people to do face-to-face networking. Second, they showed all these weird propaganda videos about how Goldman is closely tied with the US gov't, especially during World War 2. So weird, creepy, and out of date! Many senior partners leave Goldman and enter US politics. In American English, they call it "the revolving door" (between private industry and politics). Many democracies have this problem. But why celebrate it? Fuct! The whole thing felt so sleazy. Why is this important to non-US citizens? Many people looked bored and only read their mobile phones during these 90 minute(!) videos.

nkurz 4y ago
> Sorry, I should be posting under a throw-away Nice post, and I upvoted, but it might say something about your personality that you seem to consider 'throwaway2037' a part of your identity and not a throw-away. It makes me wonder if some of what you consider to be a 'cult' might just be what others think of as 'community'.
- jakzurr 4y ago
  Yeah, I'm kinda chuckling about this. But I'm also wondering if it was a typo, and they actually meant, "Sorry, I shouldn't be..."

HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago

> He got bullied and saw others bullied too > I mean it’s not a bad company These two statements cannot exist together when discussing the same organization.

6stringmerc 4y ago
One department is all he can speak to so the others might be unicorns and elf burps.