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Apple Introduces Apple Watch Ultra
- nhance 4y agoAs an avid ultrarunner, this is the first apple watch I'd ever consider. We aren't part of the apple ecosystem and I'm a bit resistant to join, so I am really excited to see the garmin or samsung equivalent to this
- peppertree 4y agoIt cracks me up when people say Apple is evil go with Samsung. Samsung heir literally went to jail for bribing the Korean president, and that was just tip of the iceberg.
- digdugdirk 4y agoI don't see this as an "Apple is evil" comment. There are plenty of people who use Windows/Linux + Android for their computing environment, and for those people, jumping into the Apple ecosystem is an infeasible time/money/productivity commitment.
- babypuncher 4y agoI don't think nhance was trying to say that Apple is evil, they are expressing a desire not to get sucked into Apple's ecosystem. Samsung's ecosystem lacks the breadth of Apple's and isn't nearly as good at creating vendor lock-in.
- nhance 4y agoCorrect. Apple products work well together, but also make it a huge pain in the ass if you don't buy everything from them. The kids have apple products and we can't manage them effectively because we don't have apple devices. This provides a strong disincentive to want to give them any more money. Samsung was only mentioned because are there any other real competitors to a full smart watch? Garmin will likely keep me because running gps for 10+ hours at a shot is important. A full smart watch is far less of a priority. (On Sunday I ran for roughly 10.5 hours, GPS active the entire time. When I finished, I had 33% of my battery left.)
- mikestew 4y agoGarmin will likely keep me because running gps for 10+ hours at a shot is important. A full smart watch is far less of a priority. If you don't want to dive headlong into Apple's stuff, then a Garmin might very well be all the smart watch you need. It's been quite a few years since I used a Garmin as a full-time smart watch, but you can have notifications and messages (read-only if using an Apple phone) and even contactless payment on a Garmin. If we weren't a knees-deep Apple house, I'd just use my Garmin 945 as my smart watch.
- ghaff 4y agoFor me, the Apple Watch is an Apple product that doesn’t unduly benefit from being all in on the Apple ecosystem but that may be just how I use it (or don’t).
- grayclhn 4y agoSwitching AirPods over from phone to watch and back is pretty nice. That’s the only example I can think of offhand though.
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- poisonborz 4y agoWould you really switch to an iPhone just to use this watch? This is the thing with Apple products, especially accessories - only usable with a deeper dive in the lock-in.
- Sakos 4y agoI'm most annoyed that they've locked competent GPS tracking behind a $799 price tag. It's the one reason why I didn't get an Apple Watch originally. It was consistently less reliable and inaccurate in weird ways than similarly priced Garmin and others.
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- imchillyb 4y agoApple Watch is significantly more accurate than a Garmin or other handheld 'portable' GPS unit. Significantly so, especially when paired with a phone (which users already own).
- brianwawok 4y agoWell, most runners do not run with a phone - so that isn't helpful. (Some do, but many of us specifically leave the phone at home, and run with our apple watches to save having a big clonkly phone)
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- entropie 4y ago> Apple Watch is significantly more accurate than a Garmin or other handheld 'portable' GPS unit. Any source on that - because I really doubt it.
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- aeharding 4y agoIs the Apple watch air integrated (for scuba)? Edit: Nope... found on https://www.oceanicworldwide.com/faqs/ https://www.oceanicworldwide.com/faqs/ Q: I have a wireless transmitter, can I connect it with the Oceanic+ app? A: At the moment this option is not currently available.
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- alphakilo 4y agoThis would definitely be a game changer. I have a Garmin Fenix and the only thing it locks is the ability to use it for diving to 40m. Although Garmin has a similar watch for diving it locks the features I would use for Backcountry camping. If I can switch to an Apple Watch Over a sunnto or similar it would be a big boon
- nradov 4y agoWhich backcountry camping features does the Garmin Descent Mk2 series lack? It does basically everything a Fenix 6X can do.
- tsfenwick 4y agoI imagine if it was they would have said so with how much of these product launches are buzzword heavy. I imagine their next version would have air integration support.
- maratc 4y agoIf your question is about the decompression algorithm, then air is a minimum requirement, although I'd imagine it having Nitrox mixes too (these are just different inputs to the same algorithm). If it's about reading the tank pressure, then most probably the answer is no.
- evgen 4y agoNo, nor are there any generic air integrated Bluetooth units available at the moment but I expect that to change quickly. A smart play for Apple as the cost of a low-end rec dive computer makes this almost a no-brainer for anyone already in the Apple ecosystem and adding an air integrated unit makes it an easy sell in that market.
- 88840-8855 4y agoHow many people will ever use any of those features? 0.01% of the watch owners? Fail.
- ezfe 4y agoSome people will use these features. If you don't want them, then don't upgrade to include them. How many people use 8TB of SSD storage? Fail.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y agoIt's not about using the futures - it's about imagining a life in which you use those features.
- highwaylights 4y agoonlyrealcuzzo gets it. The pitch is basically: Buy Apple products. You might not be a pro photographer, but you could be an Instagram legend. You will be an Instagram legend. Think of the likes. THINK OF THE FAME. How could it not happen with a device of this quality? Look at the photos. Look how gorgeous they are! Just drop $10k on an Apple load-out and don't think too much about it. It's not like it matters. You'll make it back in no time, superstar. You're not like the rest of these norms. You're special. You're one of us. You're one of the crazy ones. Welcome to your new, better, diamond-cut chamfered-edged life.
- matthewmacleod 4y agoOr—much more simply—some people use a few of these features occasionally to take nice pictures of things they are doing, track their hikes on the weekend or whatever. It amazes me to see the extents people will go to in order to pretend they can’t even conceive of simple scenarios.
- highwaylights 4y agoAbsolutely I can conceive of those scenarios. They make some tremendous products (even if they often get a pass on some pretty serious bugs and flaws). They're marketing though is aspirational to the point of appealing to people's delusions of grandeur. Apple is very aware that barely any of their customers will be using a dive computer and most Pro phone customers won't be dealing with ProRAW, even if a minority genuinely appreciate it for their workflow. This is going to sound made up, totally realise that, but that's kind of my point (it seems silly written out) - last night I was talking to a buddy of mine after the event and he said he's going out to get the Watch Pro at release. He's not a diver and hikes very rarely (locally, with good cell reception) so I asked why. The answer was the extra button, because it looks different from a normal one and people will know he has the Pro model. This is Apple's market, and they know it - the rest is just window dressing. This dude can't afford a $900 watch right now. It's not Apple's fault people make poor financial decisions, but they very much rely on it.
- Noumenon72 4y ago"Your watch will help you find your way back to where you started" (Backtrack) is a neat sounding feature. I'll never be lost, because I just dropped a compass point.
- KennyBlanken 4y agoIt's a standard feature on handheld GPS units dating back to the late 90's, both waypoint and breadcrumbs - and also a commonly available feature on Garmin and other non-Apple devices going back quite a number of years.
- cmcmcm 4y agoStill no Apple Watch for ladies... They're all enormous!
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y agoSize is probably driven by the size of the electronics, size of batteries, and size of screen. You could probably get a usable system on a smaller screen, but the rest of it, I suspect, is already up against the limits of what we can manufacture today.
- systemvoltage 4y agoThere is a general trend of huge watches though outside of these concerns. Omega seamaster used to be available in 36mm. No more. Even the larger ones went from 40mm to 41mm, and last year they upped it to 42mm.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y agoSure, and I would very much prefer that we had more small watches (and phones, while we're commiserating). I'm just questioning whether a thing recognizable as an Apple Watch can be any smaller than it is today.
- systemvoltage 4y agoMay be we can start a new trend, but instead of Z-height and making things slimmer, let's just make the phone and watch thicker but smaller X,Y dimensions.
- justsomehnguy 4y agoIt is. Watches lost the timekeeping service long ago, so their main purpose now is /only/ being a symbol of status. (Thats why I'm happy with my wristwatch, it shows the time and day of the month. Nothing more. I wouldn't mind a perpetual calendar, only to avoid those three days a year when they don't sync with the ideosyncrazies of the human's calendar)
- sylvainkalache 4y agoWhat I am the most excited about is the dive computer feature! "along with recreational scuba diving to 40 meters with the new Oceanic+ app." I was looking at $1,000 Garmin watches and was really not excited at buying one.
- liminalsunset 4y agoI'm more concerned about the safety aspects of using an app running on a consumer watch for this kind of purpose. We've all seen the "water resistance is not a permanent condition...limited warranty does not cover water damage" warning before. Can a user of this app easily determine whether the waterproofing of the watch has been compromised, perhaps invisibly? After all, most Apple products rely on double sided adhesives and thin rubber membranes for waterproofing, due to sensors etc, but most other watches use a O-ring seal or similar. What happens if the App crashes, or the watch experiences a freeze/reboot during a dive? Will the app relaunch and handle its state correctly? Will the battery aging impact ability to prevent unexpected restarts in cold water? My past experiences with mobile apps and devices has been that while in the vast majority of situations they work fine, due to the large feature surface area and constraints associated with being a general purpose device, there are caveats to using them for a fixed purpose, where preventing failure could be critical. This is usually why purpose made equipment like dive computers are bulky and expensive, and I'm not sure this is the answer.
- dmitrygr 4y agoMy dive computer (mares) is also a consumer device. Why would Apple Watch be worse ?
- liminalsunset 4y agoI'm thinking this isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison (literally) because the Mares equipment is designed specifically for the purpose of diving. The design of that device can be optimized for diving, and just diving, where an Apple Watch needs to include features like phone calls, a speaker, a microphone, and other sensors that aren't necessary for diving, along with the other software and user installed apps. Furthermore, the physical size and case design of the products I see on the Mares website is bulkier, which likely makes it easy to build it to be more robust to physical damage and waterproofing.
- drewg123 4y agoHow can they call 36 hours of battery life "long"? The $799 version Garmin Fenix 7 solar (which they seem to be targeting) has an 18-22 days of battery life.
- dwighttk 4y ago18 hours is all day… 36 is long
- drewg123 4y agoThe last time I had a smartwatch with "long" battery life like that was 2018 with a Polar M600. I got tired of charging it all the time and upgraded to a Garmin with a week of battery life.
- saberience 4y agoIt really annoys me to have to charge my Apple Watch every day, especially because I want/need it for both sleep tracking and exercise tracking. If I use it for sleeping it invariably runs out of bettery during the night, then in the morning when I want to work out I have to charge it before the gym, it's just frustrating. I would LOVE three days of charge.
- tokamak-teapot 4y agoMy tactic is to drop in on the charger before I start getting ready for bed, then put it back on when I’m ready to go to sleep. Because it charges quickly, that’s enough to give me power through the night and the next day. I’d still like a month of battery life though!
- dwighttk 4y agoI just don’t track sleep… I sleep fine but the couple times I’ve tried sleep tracking it has just made my sleep restless because every time my sleep got shallow I woke up thinking about “I wonder how my sleep tracking is going… man I’m gonna get the best sleep score!”
- dependsontheq 4y agoIt looks like Apple took a hard look at decades of classic watch ads. And decided to do the same. It actually looks exactly like these ads.
- arberx 4y agoApple is missing the mark in this segment. Their competitors: Garmin, coros all offer weeks of battery life with tradeoffs people in this segment happily make. I get 20 days of battery life on my coros pace 2. Charging a apple watch every night or two would not be acceptable.
- scyzoryk_xyz 4y agoI don’t think this is actually the target segment. This is who the targeted consumers for this device aspire to be, not who they actually are.
- cypress66 4y agoKind of... Apple's sleep tracking is by far the best on the market[1]. However if your watch doesn't last many days it's a pain in the ass to use it that way, because you charge it overnight instead of tracking your sleep. [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=LPqtfC70QTU https://youtube.com/watch?v=LPqtfC70QTU
- layer8 4y agoSome people therefore buy two watches, one for sleep tracking and one for daytime use. Seems to work out well for Apple.
- krisdol 4y agoAgreed. They say this is for explorers and adventure, but it seems like I’d be out of charge after the first segment of a backpacking trip. Need a map of an area for the return or the next day? Good luck.
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- enraged_camel 4y agoIt's not a huge deal. When I go on multi-day backpacking trips, I carry battery packs and/or solar chargers with me anyway, because I need to be able to charge my phone.
- idoh 4y agoApple is amazing at solving problems customers wished they had.
- mrwnmonm 4y agoI run in the desert everyday man.
- hedora 4y agoHey, 130F isn’t much hotter than San Jose’s high of 109F yesterday. (117F inland)
- jpalomaki 4y agoI think they have learned a lot from car manufacturers and their marketing.
- cutierust 4y ago
- mikestew 4y agoWe all want to be the kind of person that needs that kind of a watch. But we'll buy it anyway.
- chrisBob 4y agoAs a casual runner that does some track workouts, the extra button is my favorite feature of this new watch. The built in stopwatch app with screen buttons is miserable for timing workouts. Now I just need to wait a few years for the extra button to trickle down to something that my family agrees is in budget.
- drewg123 4y agoTry a Garmin. Even the low end ones have way, way more battery life and lots of buttons.
- pharmakom 4y agoGarmin UI sucks, although I still picked one over Apple Watch due to the price point.
- christoph 4y agoSame, but slightly disagree about the UI, but can understand why it's not for everyone. I finally upgraded my ageing 935 to a 955 after 3 or more years and I actually find the 955 to be a joyous experience day to day for everything I need to do and way more. The UI/UX actually feels somewhat well polished now. Sure, some features and functions are buried, but the amount of functionality packed into it, which is quickly and easily accessible when you get the basic UI structure is unsurpassed IMO. Nothing ever feels more than a few button presses or swipes away, which is honestly a huge achievement given just how much they are packing in now. The new daily reports and training/workout suggestions are almost always bang on in terms of matching I how feel along with their suggestions for easy days / hard days. The battery life and abundance of buttons just leaves Apple for dust IMO. Add in features like PacePro, easy workout building, training programs, race day planning, integration with everything imaginable - Di2 gears, power meters, etc. Apple will probably never handle a triathlon event - jumping seamlessly from Garmin watch -> Garmin cycle computer -> Garmin watch. I don't think Garmin should feel threatened by Apple here. Nothing about Apple Watch appeals to me for my use case - running, cycling, swimming, hiking, training status, sleep tracking/recommendations, notifications, music/spotify integration. I've had a couple of Apple Watches over the years and they both got handed on to family members within a month or two. I've wanted to like it, but they are a long way off realistically serving my use-case and this new Ultra version doesn't look to come close either. I've certainly had issues with Garmin - that atrocious week long service outage a year or two back and also some software updates that made me wonder if any internal QA had been done at all, but overall, Garmin have given me rock solid devices that are best in class IMO. My 935 still looked almost brand new after 3 years of hard usage and still gave me nearly week long battery life (with 5-7hrs running a week).
- case0x00 4y ago36/60 hours still seems pretty low to me honestly in an adventuring context. Apple had a great opportunity to innovate the watch massively but this is kinda disappointing. Software is cool, as always, but hardware is the let down. The bands seem pretty cool though.
- o_____________o 4y agoReally hoping they solve the rumored glucose monitoring at some point. I've never owned an apple watch, but I would dump all my traditional watches, oura ring and CGM.
- oezi 4y agoAnd blood pressure monitoring would be a a huge feature.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y agoGlucose and blood pressure would get me to buy. And I don't have issues with either.
- nailer 4y agoApple are in contact with at least one company that can diagnose maladies through human sweat.
- Lukas_Skywalker 4y agoOne thing confusing me is that there doesn't seem to be a real map view. There is a view displaying waypoints and a line tracing your route, but no map background. Some context around your current position can be very helpful when navigating. Strange that they didn't include it. The watch already has such a bright high resolution display, they could provide a much better experience than the competitors.
- ezfe 4y agoIn the wilderness, they'd want to be using Satellite (data heavy) because most areas don't have useful Vector mapping unless they pull in a huge new trail database.
- kosyblysk666 4y ago
- jfbaro 4y agoInteresting. I am personally more interested in precise and diverse health sensors, that can measure my health in real time.
- pcj-github 4y agoThey used the word "extreme" 15 times, sigh. I didn't realize wakeboarding was an "extreme" water sport. TIL.
- isitmadeofglass 4y agoSigh, Yes, wakeboarding is an extreme sport. Just because you personally might feel that it’s “not extreme enough” doesn’t change that fact. The category of extreme sports is about risks of serious injury or death, not about how “Rad” people perceive them to be. > Contusions, abrasions, strains, sprains, low back pain and rib fractures are common injuries experienced in wakeboarding.
- TobyTheDog123 4y agoFound the wakeboarder
- grayclhn 4y agoNot sure that list of example injuries supports the “risks of serious injury or death” claim, but ymmv. If “contusions and abrasions” needs to be spelled out, it seems like someone’s padding the list. :)
- grishka 4y agoLet me guess, still doesn't work with Android.
- speedgoose 4y agoIt's strange that they don't offer good outdoor maps. In the announcement video, they show how to find your way from your gps track displayed on a black background. It's not very helpful. I use a third party application, WorkOutDoors, to get vectorial outdoor maps from OSM data on the Apple Watch Series 3. So it should be possible to offer maps by default on the new watch ultra that makes you an adventurer.
- chrsstrm 4y agoOff-road maps are something I'm OK with using a third-party app for, but there's one thing I can't stand with the current mapping features - line of sight or "as the crow flies" distance and directions off-road. I use FindMy with other people in outdoor and off-road situations quite a bit. I can see where other people are on the map, but I can't be told the straight line distance to any of them. You also can't ask for directions to another person if that person isn't next to a road. It seems like such a huge oversight that you can't tap on another person in FindMy and ask for directions and then be told something like "Head 700m at a bearing of 187 degrees to [other user's] location." Freeform walking directions are such a basic thing that I can't believe this is overlooked.
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- TobyTheDog123 4y agoWhy would you make the "action button" a fixed bright orange color? I want to be able to wear it whether I'm on a run or whether I'm going out. EDIT: Yeah, international orange, cool - keep it as an option, but the vast majority of people buying this will never be in a situation where "international orange" is needed.
- mikestew 4y agoOh, it's needed alright. It signals to the others in that sprint planning meeting that you are an extreme athlete who cares not for such things as aesthetics. And in case they can't quite make it out at the other end of the conference table, we'll make it bright orange.
- wellthisisgreat 4y agoIt’s 7mm larger diagonally than my 42mm watch, that’s crazy large, did it catch some kind of phablet virus?
- alberth 4y agoPeople are getting hung up on battery life. You have to realize Apple is creating the equivalent of the luxury Mercedes G-Wagon for off-roading, when in reality a Jeep Rubicon (Garmin) addresses all of your real needs at 1/3 the price.
- KennyBlanken 4y agoThe problem with Garmin is that they obsessively fragment/segment/differentiate their market/products. It's infuriating that such an expensive watch will be unable to do some basic feature because they want to sell a "golf" version of the watch or a "sailing" version and so on. They'll also release some feature that clearly is possible to implement on even current products elsewhere in the lineup - and isn't even really implemented on the watch at all but just some processing done on their cloud. But you don't get the feature, even if you bought a current model elsewhere in the lineup, because only the new watches get it. With increased competition, supply chain issues, and consumer spending tightening it's been amusing to see Garmin suddenly drop much of that; the Vivoactive 4 and Forerunner 255 are absent most of their typical segmentation crap. The Forerunner 255 is a running watch that supports cycling power meters, for example, which had been a feature that had been limited to their absurdly expensive, huge, gaudy-looking "Fenix" watches.
- nradov 4y agoI generally agree with your points, but cycling power meters had been supported even on some older Forerunner models like the 935 that was released in 2017. It's cheaper and smaller than a Fenix, but internally shares much of the same hardware and software. It seems like Garmin is missing out on an opportunity to upsell existing device owners on apps. Like if someone sails occasionally then they're probably not going to spend $800 for another smart watch with sailing features, but they might spend $20 to add the sailing app to their existing device.
- jiggawatts 4y agoFamously, Steve Jobs rescued Apple from oblivion largely by stopping their market segmentation and forcing the company to have "one great product in each major category". As in one phone, one PC, one music player, etc... Meanwhile Apple's competition is flailing around releasing literally hundreds of minor model variations each, which all require design, parts sourcing, warehousing, warranty support[1], standards licensing, FCC approvals, etc... Remember Nokia? They had something like over 100 phone models when Apple release the iPhone! More models isn't more choice. It's more confusion, more fragmentation, more overhead, and more upset customers that can't get the combination of features they want. [1] This one in particular is a killer, especially in some markets like California and Australia. Needing to keep spares on hand for legally-mandated warranty drags down the profitability or jacks up the price for a lot of companies that don't "get" the Apple Way of having fewer SKUs.
- fb03 4y agoEager to have Quake 3: Arena running on this one.
- abako 4y agoBattery life is a big but there..
- killjoywashere 4y agoI love the intro: Men wanted for hazardous journey [[omitted: to the South Pole. Small wages, bitter cold,]] long months of complete darkness, constant danger. Safe return doubtful. Honor and recognition in case of success. http://www.antarctic-circle.org/advert.htm http://www.antarctic-circle.org/advert.htm
- Kon-Peki 4y agoThey should have included a modern day job posting: > Antenna Rigger - McMurdo, Antarctica Frequently climbs towers up to 150' feet in height to perform all normal rigging duties as required. https://ghgcorp.applicantpro.com/jobs/2218096.html https://ghgcorp.applicantpro.com/jobs/2218096.html
- nunez 4y agoi think the more annoying thing about this watch is that they used this as the replacement for the Edition line. This means that you HAVE to get this if you want a watch with a titanium case.
- alden5 4y agoyea they really just removed a whole product category, the only difference between the series 7 & 8 is a temperature sensor and better accelerometer, i bet they'll be alot of people seeking out titanium series 7's just like how people still seek out ceramic series 5's
- DrWumbo 4y agoIf you need your apple watch to keep from getting lost in the mountains: you probably shouldn't be in the mountains. If you need your apple watch is helping you scuba dive: you probably shouldn't be diving. I can see a rugged, smartwatch with tactile buttons and a bigger crown being useful in a lot of construction applications, but I don't think most construction workers or contractors are rocking iphones and $799 smart watches.
- POPOSYS 4y ago
- foolproofplan 4y ago
- firstSpeaker 4y agoI have Garmin fenix 6s now. I do long runs and thus switched to Garmin from Apple watch way back then. With the Watch Ultra I am thinking in few iteration it might become a fair choice for me. What I really hope is that Apple somehow allow battery extensions. E.g. a battery extension strap or something along that line. Then it will for sure be a choice for me. Imagine on back of the wrist is the watch and a battery on the other side that connects to the watch and extends the battery life for days.
- mpalfrey 4y agoI'm getting tempted. I said that if Apple brought out a G-Shock style Apple watch, I'd buy it instantly. I've had an Apple Watch SE for the last couple of years. It's been pretty good on the whole. Bought it after my Garmin Forerunner nearly failed to get a GPS lock in time when I was in a start pen for a half marathon (AFAIK the Fenix gets a lock far quicker).
- substation13 4y agoThis would actually be a great fit for my "adventures": - Running for around 5 hours - Cycling multiple days but with a dynamo + battery packs The appeal of this over a Garmin etc. is that this has a far better UI and is more suited to 90% of the time when I'm not outdoors but at the office etc. Maybe we need to compare the price point to buying both a basic smart watch and a basic fitness watch?
- Hapa 4y agoI am actually thinking about switching from Garmin to Apple. I use smartwatch mostly for health tracking, partially as a smart watch and to help me train for half marathons. Garmin is generally good but there are two issues: 1. Sleep and Hearth Rate tracking - it's still a bit hard for me to believe(am I missing something?) that Apple with Watch OS 9 seem to have much better sleep and hearth rate tracking (which Vo2max, HRV and other things are based on). Plus at least for me on Venu 2 watch GPS when running tend be really iffy , when running in small city with 5 floor buildings at most 2. App ecosystem - I don't really mind UX of Garmin it's ok for me. The issue is that I like to listen to podcasts and Garmins Spotify app is pretty bad at synchronisation. - The main app have bunch of things which are either useless (like insights), are often imprecise (Stress measurements) or are clumsy to use (setting up custom workouts through Web UI, strength training app) - I am bit capture by Apple now so I expect to get other marginal benefits with Apple - Access to data, there are only Apps integrating with Garmin and it's not really possible to create your own to have a full access to the API - garmin pay not as supported as apple pay in my area The biggest challenge for me was always mainly the battery life and price to a degree - Ultra obviously doesn't really solve it. - I am hoping that annoyance of charging will be balanced out by more smooth experience - I don't like to wear my Garmin all day especially when just sitting behind the pc (maybe I just need a different band?) so charging might not be such a big deal, expect for travelling. And as for a price I have same problem as I have with Fenix or Epix, I would pay for stuff I will never use. If only Apple Watch 8 would get the extra battery, battery GPS and extra button, but ou well. So Apple would me to - get more of my runs without phone (thanks to apple pay, easy podcast sync, audible app) - more precise healthy tracking - bit better experience thanks to 3rd party and my reliance on Apple or maybe I am just got convinced by marketing and try to justify it to my self :)