7 ms·

> Singapore which has exceptionally low healthcare spending yea because they have healthy population, its not because of some smart govt policy( if only it was

> Singapore which has exceptionally low healthcare spending yea because they have healthy population, its not because of some smart govt policy( if only it was that easy). singapore obesity rate = 10% usa obesity rate = 42 % usa obesity healthcare spend = 90%

groby_b 4y ago
That 90% number is plain not true. Please cite any source for that. The costs for obese folk are on average 90%-100% higher than for non-obese folk, but that's not 90% of total spending. (See e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33470881/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33470881/) Total cost approaches 20% of spending: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-consequences/economic/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesi...
- imapeopleperson 4y ago
  Don’t get so hung up on precise numbers. We all know Americans are obese and that greatly adds to healthcare costs. I can’t imagine any downside of trying to prioritize lowering obesity.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Thank god we aren't discussing your imagination, then.
  - GendingMachine 4y ago
    "Don't get so hung up on precise numbers", uh, 90% isn't just imprecise, it's so catastrophically wrong that it undermines your entire argument
    - imapeopleperson 4y ago
      This is a topic that’s always going to have wildly different numbers. Who cares? It doesn’t change what we all know to be true. Nothing has been undermined whatsoever
      - groby_b 4y ago
        What we all know to be true is your troll status.
    - dominotw 4y ago
      Do you know the right number by any chance?
- dominotw 4y ago
  I was using obesity as a standin for metabolic syndrome to compare populations. Not sure if measure how many ppl have 'metabolic syndrome. https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/metabolic-syndrome https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/metabolic-syndrome metabolic disease = all things that can be fixed by lifestyle modifications ( unless you are too far gone, ie). see my reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32744868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32744868
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    Metabolic syndrome is often a side effect of medication or symptom of other diseases that can't be fixed with lifestyle modifications alone. For example, there are a lot of people on psychiatric medications that can cause metabolic syndrome as a primary side effect.
    - dominotw 4y ago
      > is often Would be interesting to know how often.
      - heavyset_go 4y ago
        Tens of millions of people in the US take atypical antipsychotics and antidepressants that cause metabolic syndrome as a very common side effect.
- JamesBarney 4y ago
  I wonder though how much this drives up the cost. Because obesity also drives down lifespan, and age has a huge impact on healthcare expenditures.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    Obesity, like smoking, is one of those morbidities that lower lifetime healthcare costs significantly, as most costs are incurred in old age, as you saisd. Obesity, smoking, etc can kill before reaching an age where people start incurring high costs.
    - consumer451 4y ago
      There is a lovely tale from Czech Republic in 2001 where Philip Morris was distributing analysis showing the economic benefits of smoking to their shared healthcare pool. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB995230746855683470 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB995230746855683470
notch656a 4y ago
My state has a "stupid motorist" law that requires people who negligently put their vehicles in danger and then use state resources to get bailed out, to pay for the rescue themselves. Perhaps we could create a "stupid eater law" for medicare/medicaid, forcing obese people etc to pay for their own private health insurance or healthcare which would free up money for others to buy more healthcare privately (via lower tax burden). My families healthcare would definitely be more affordable if I weren't burdened paying for the negligent actions of others.
- nradov 4y ago
  Should we apply the same sort of "stupid X law" to people who drink alcohol or drive motorcycles or play rugby? This is one of the moral hazards of a socialized medical system. When the rest of society is paying for your medical care it becomes tempting to save money be dictating exactly how you're allowed to live your life. Obesity is a serious public health problem but we won't fix it by calling people stupid or charging them extra.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    >Should we apply the same sort of "stupid X law" to people who drink alcohol or drive motorcycles or play rugby? Yes, precisely. Keep chopping down at these factors until all that's practically left is private healthcare -- that's a feature not a bug. It's enough that I have to pay the bill to scrape the blood off the street when a motorcycle is crashed, not interested in paying someone elses motorcycle related health premiums on top of that (I've gotten enough motorcycle injuries while carrying my own private healthcare :) ) >This is one of the moral hazards of a socialized medical system. As you say with public healthcare the effect (you say temptation) is to socialize your health related losses while privatizing the gains you reap.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      Yes, I'm getting sick of paying for people who drive cars, go to restaurants and concerts, and have children. > socialize your health related losses while privatizing the gains you reap. Those famous health care gains.
Barrin92 4y ago
>yea because they have healthy population, its not because of some smart govt policy yes it is, because the health population itself is supported by strong intervention. Singapore banned the advertisements of sugary drinks years ago, Singapore strictly regulates the number of vehicle licenses in the country encouraging public transport and walking, it forces citizens to allocate money for healthcare to private savings funds which incentives reducing your own healthcare costs, and so on. The reason American's are obese isn't a miracle or because Americans are stupider, it's because Americans refuse to take collective action when it comes to the health of the nation.

groby_b 4y ago

That 90% number is plain not true. Please cite any source for that. The costs for obese folk are on average 90%-100% higher than for non-obese folk, but that's not 90% of total spending. (See e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33470881/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33470881/) Total cost approaches 20% of spending: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-consequences/economic/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesi...

imapeopleperson 4y ago
Don’t get so hung up on precise numbers. We all know Americans are obese and that greatly adds to healthcare costs. I can’t imagine any downside of trying to prioritize lowering obesity.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Thank god we aren't discussing your imagination, then.
- GendingMachine 4y ago
  "Don't get so hung up on precise numbers", uh, 90% isn't just imprecise, it's so catastrophically wrong that it undermines your entire argument
  - imapeopleperson 4y ago
    This is a topic that’s always going to have wildly different numbers. Who cares? It doesn’t change what we all know to be true. Nothing has been undermined whatsoever
    - groby_b 4y ago
      What we all know to be true is your troll status.
  - dominotw 4y ago
    Do you know the right number by any chance?
dominotw 4y ago
I was using obesity as a standin for metabolic syndrome to compare populations. Not sure if measure how many ppl have 'metabolic syndrome. https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/metabolic-syndrome https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/metabolic-syndrome metabolic disease = all things that can be fixed by lifestyle modifications ( unless you are too far gone, ie). see my reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32744868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32744868
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Metabolic syndrome is often a side effect of medication or symptom of other diseases that can't be fixed with lifestyle modifications alone. For example, there are a lot of people on psychiatric medications that can cause metabolic syndrome as a primary side effect.
  - dominotw 4y ago
    > is often Would be interesting to know how often.
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      Tens of millions of people in the US take atypical antipsychotics and antidepressants that cause metabolic syndrome as a very common side effect.
JamesBarney 4y ago
I wonder though how much this drives up the cost. Because obesity also drives down lifespan, and age has a huge impact on healthcare expenditures.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  Obesity, like smoking, is one of those morbidities that lower lifetime healthcare costs significantly, as most costs are incurred in old age, as you saisd. Obesity, smoking, etc can kill before reaching an age where people start incurring high costs.
  - consumer451 4y ago
    There is a lovely tale from Czech Republic in 2001 where Philip Morris was distributing analysis showing the economic benefits of smoking to their shared healthcare pool. https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB995230746855683470 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB995230746855683470

notch656a 4y ago

My state has a "stupid motorist" law that requires people who negligently put their vehicles in danger and then use state resources to get bailed out, to pay for the rescue themselves. Perhaps we could create a "stupid eater law" for medicare/medicaid, forcing obese people etc to pay for their own private health insurance or healthcare which would free up money for others to buy more healthcare privately (via lower tax burden). My families healthcare would definitely be more affordable if I weren't burdened paying for the negligent actions of others.

nradov 4y ago
Should we apply the same sort of "stupid X law" to people who drink alcohol or drive motorcycles or play rugby? This is one of the moral hazards of a socialized medical system. When the rest of society is paying for your medical care it becomes tempting to save money be dictating exactly how you're allowed to live your life. Obesity is a serious public health problem but we won't fix it by calling people stupid or charging them extra.
- notch656a 4y ago
  >Should we apply the same sort of "stupid X law" to people who drink alcohol or drive motorcycles or play rugby? Yes, precisely. Keep chopping down at these factors until all that's practically left is private healthcare -- that's a feature not a bug. It's enough that I have to pay the bill to scrape the blood off the street when a motorcycle is crashed, not interested in paying someone elses motorcycle related health premiums on top of that (I've gotten enough motorcycle injuries while carrying my own private healthcare :) ) >This is one of the moral hazards of a socialized medical system. As you say with public healthcare the effect (you say temptation) is to socialize your health related losses while privatizing the gains you reap.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Yes, I'm getting sick of paying for people who drive cars, go to restaurants and concerts, and have children. > socialize your health related losses while privatizing the gains you reap. Those famous health care gains.

Barrin92 4y ago

>yea because they have healthy population, its not because of some smart govt policy yes it is, because the health population itself is supported by strong intervention. Singapore banned the advertisements of sugary drinks years ago, Singapore strictly regulates the number of vehicle licenses in the country encouraging public transport and walking, it forces citizens to allocate money for healthcare to private savings funds which incentives reducing your own healthcare costs, and so on. The reason American's are obese isn't a miracle or because Americans are stupider, it's because Americans refuse to take collective action when it comes to the health of the nation.