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It is a negotiation not a fairness discussion (even though fairness is part of the negotiation arguments). I asked about it in my current job before accepting t
by soneca 4y ago
It is a negotiation not a fairness discussion (even though fairness is part of the negotiation arguments). I asked about it in my current job before accepting the offer and was able to successfully negotiate it. In your situation, it seems that the only way is to look for a new job.
Anyway, the way I negotiated was very simple. Basically a version of ”I understand that this is a good salary relative to my local market, but I am not even looking for jobs in my local market. I am comparing your offer to offers from other US-based companies that I received for remote work.”
That was it. The part of other offers was true of course (even if for companies that I wasn’t too excited to work for). No need to even reply to their arguments of “company policy”, “cost of living”, whatever. I only have to state my point of view.
There is also the topic of me not receiving benefits like health care and 401k and other stuff that American employees get. I didn’t use this argument (didn’t occur to me), but I have the impression that this was considered in their calculation in how much to raise their offer.
- Uptrenda 4y agoGood advice. I do think the arguments these companies use is ridiculous. I think it's possible that these companies are knowingly exploiting OP because he comes from a lower economic background. I say this as an Australian where tech jobs here pay about half or a third as much as a US startup job yet I've never had any startups try offer me an Australian rate. I wonder if there's more to this story? E.g. does OP work for a consulting company, an outsourcing company, freelance, does he use project-based job marketplaces? I am just wondering the situation.
- pyrodactyl 4y agoI work for a software company that's product based BUT I'm not in a software role as some people are assuming
- ytdytvhxgydvhh 4y agoThe first line of your post says “Recently I got to know the pay scales that my peers and even junior developers are getting in the US/EU”. Why mention junior developers if you’re not in a software role? Are you also mad about the salaries of dentists in Canada or lawyers in Japan?
- pyrodactyl 4y agoGreat advice on negotiation. I'll definitely use this going forward. Thank you!
- nprateem 4y agoIt's a BATNA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiated_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_alternative_to_a_negotiat...
- rootusrootus 4y agoIt's 100% correct that's simply a negotiation, and this is another variable. But if you came at me and told me I had to pay you what I pay my US employees, my first response would be "alright, but you have to work US hours and speak perfect American English." Honestly, that's a good part of why we try to hire in one general area, in this case the US. There is a real cost to foreign developers who only speak passable English and who work on a schedule that has little or no overlap with US time zones.
- jbay808 4y agoSounds like you should hire Canadians!
- AlbertCory 4y agoMany people don't consider Canadian English "passable" :)
- jbay808 4y agoWe're quite willing to misspell "colour" for US rates!
- AlbertCory 4y agoif you can stop pronouncing "south" as "soath" we might be OK with it.
- AlchemistCamp 4y agoThe true crime is pronouncing "Java" to rhyme with "have a". Hearing someone say, "JaaavaScript" is a traumatic experience :)
- therealdrag0 4y agoDefinitely surprising it’s taken so long for this to take off. But maybe because CA has a tiny population probably too small a pool?
- imtringued 4y agoThis is the reason why remote companies have cost of living adjustments. They don't want to compete with other remote companies but nothing is stopping you from just applying only to remote companies.
- shetill 4y agoWhere do you even find these remote US jobs, they are either some big US companies that have local offices or US startups that don't take non-US people?
- soneca 4y agoBig companies mostly only hire where they have offices, and almost none have offices in Brazil. So small startups that hire globally it is. I find these jobs in either HN's "Who is Hiring?" or AngelList.
- paulcole 4y ago> I am comparing your offer to offers from other US-based companies that I received for remote work If you go this route and you don’t have any other offers, are you willing to walk away or will you settle? Or if you do have those other offers, are you willing to take one of them instead of the one you’re currently negotiating?