4 ms·

I expect stuff like this will become compulsory in the near future. “For your own good”, of course.

retrac 4y ago
Every jurisdiction already has a less-specific and mandatory version of this. When demand exceeds supply, they just start disconnecting loads from the grid, perhaps randomly.
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  Yep. They just start rolling blackouts.
- butlerm 4y ago
  Every jurisdiction also has some sort of plan to generate or acquire enough electricity so they do not have to engage in rolling blackouts under normal circumstances, and a hot afternoon during the summer certainly counts as normal. If there is ever a blackout someone has failed their job description.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Mine can do voltage reductions. But of course that's only good for resistive loads. As far as I know, they've never done this, but it's a tool they have and test: https://www.ieso.ca/en/Sector-Participants/IESO-News/2021/12/IESO-to-Conduct-Routine-Voltage-Reduction-Test-on-February-1 https://www.ieso.ca/en/Sector-Participants/IESO-News/2021/12...
EliRivers 4y ago
Is it not for our own good? The whole grid collapsing and needing a lengthy, expensive restart process while everyone goes without electricity sure doesn't sound like a better option. Even Texas bit the bullet to prevent that happening. We already have the power to do this by just imposing rolling brownouts and blackouts; this is the same thing but not nearly so bad as outright power cutoff.
- contravariant 4y ago
  If you start down this line then there are lots of rights that should be taken away from people. If these people cannot be trusted to pick a sensible temperature for their own homes I don't see why you'd let them vote who gets to run the country.
  - throwawaysleep 4y ago
    It is not about what is sensible for your home. It is about what energy is actually available.
    - butlerm 4y ago
      This is not an emergency program, it is planned for years in advance. If people sign up for demand management programs like this, utilities do not need as much power during peak periods, and that results in the construction of less power generation and storage. If no one wants to pay the price in inconvenience, the utilities simply have to build more capacity to cover these shortages and charge somewhat higher prices accordingly.
      - carlivar 4y ago
        If the utilities are allowed to build more capacity or charge higher prices. I think both of these require government permission.
        butlerm 4y ago
        Wholesale rates are set in a free market for a variety of reasons, but it is true it is ultimately up to governments whether to let residents suffer in the heat or freeze in the dark, either by discouraging new, adequate generation or refusing to allow retail rates to rise to pay for it.
  - nathanaldensr 4y ago
    Because someone likes it cooler or warmer than you, they should lose their right to vote. Got it.
otherme123 4y ago
I prefer the price signaling than hard prohibition. In this case the utility company might charge a lot for what they consider unreasonable consumption, and that should spark "voluntary" savings. We have this where I live for water: under 10 m3 per person monthly is very cheap. The 11th m3 could cost more than bottle water. Technically you can consume as much as you can afford, but almost nobody is watering the grass with potable water.
- lumost 4y ago
  We may need a middle ground on energy soon. If european prices continue rising, energy costs will be higher than rent. Sure people will cut back, but I need heating, and lighting. Rationing will be necessary to preserve basic consumption ahead of conspicuous consumption by wealthy interests.
  - butlerm 4y ago
    European conditions aren't normal though - given adequate time new sources will be brought online and a new normal will be established. The prices can't and won't stay as high as they are projected to be under crisis conditions, new supply is less expensive than that.
    - Scoundreller 4y ago
      > given adequate time new sources will be brought online Or in the French condition: existing sources will be brought back online https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-restart-all-its-nuclear-reactors-by-this-winter-minister-says-2022-09-02/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-restart-all-its-...
- _fat_santa 4y ago
  The problem with that is people don't monitor their usage. I'm sure some do but most I know just use power willy nilly and pay the bill at the end of the month. Doing this will result in alot of pissed off customers when they see a 5X increase in their bill.
dasil003 4y ago
Snark is too easy. What do you propose for tragedy of the commons scenarios like climate change?
- trentnix 4y ago
  This has nothing to do with climate change, and everything to do with a tangential topic: energy generation. Colorado has more residents with larger domiciles than ever before, and the supply has not kept up with the demand. Additionally, almost all investment has been in areas that are inconsistent in their ability to provide energy when it’s needed. Simply deciding for other people that they shouldn’t have access to energy because of your misplaced fears around climate change is a recipe for envy, bitterness, and significant societal unrest.

Every jurisdiction already has a less-specific and mandatory version of this. When demand exceeds supply, they just start disconnecting loads from the grid, perhaps randomly.

throwawaysleep 4y ago
Yep. They just start rolling blackouts.
butlerm 4y ago
Every jurisdiction also has some sort of plan to generate or acquire enough electricity so they do not have to engage in rolling blackouts under normal circumstances, and a hot afternoon during the summer certainly counts as normal. If there is ever a blackout someone has failed their job description.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Scoundreller 4y ago
Mine can do voltage reductions. But of course that's only good for resistive loads. As far as I know, they've never done this, but it's a tool they have and test: https://www.ieso.ca/en/Sector-Participants/IESO-News/2021/12/IESO-to-Conduct-Routine-Voltage-Reduction-Test-on-February-1 https://www.ieso.ca/en/Sector-Participants/IESO-News/2021/12...

EliRivers 4y ago

Is it not for our own good? The whole grid collapsing and needing a lengthy, expensive restart process while everyone goes without electricity sure doesn't sound like a better option. Even Texas bit the bullet to prevent that happening. We already have the power to do this by just imposing rolling brownouts and blackouts; this is the same thing but not nearly so bad as outright power cutoff.

contravariant 4y ago
If you start down this line then there are lots of rights that should be taken away from people. If these people cannot be trusted to pick a sensible temperature for their own homes I don't see why you'd let them vote who gets to run the country.
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  It is not about what is sensible for your home. It is about what energy is actually available.
  - butlerm 4y ago
    This is not an emergency program, it is planned for years in advance. If people sign up for demand management programs like this, utilities do not need as much power during peak periods, and that results in the construction of less power generation and storage. If no one wants to pay the price in inconvenience, the utilities simply have to build more capacity to cover these shortages and charge somewhat higher prices accordingly.
    - carlivar 4y ago
      If the utilities are allowed to build more capacity or charge higher prices. I think both of these require government permission.
      - butlerm 4y ago
        Wholesale rates are set in a free market for a variety of reasons, but it is true it is ultimately up to governments whether to let residents suffer in the heat or freeze in the dark, either by discouraging new, adequate generation or refusing to allow retail rates to rise to pay for it.
- nathanaldensr 4y ago
  Because someone likes it cooler or warmer than you, they should lose their right to vote. Got it.

otherme123 4y ago

I prefer the price signaling than hard prohibition. In this case the utility company might charge a lot for what they consider unreasonable consumption, and that should spark "voluntary" savings. We have this where I live for water: under 10 m3 per person monthly is very cheap. The 11th m3 could cost more than bottle water. Technically you can consume as much as you can afford, but almost nobody is watering the grass with potable water.

lumost 4y ago
We may need a middle ground on energy soon. If european prices continue rising, energy costs will be higher than rent. Sure people will cut back, but I need heating, and lighting. Rationing will be necessary to preserve basic consumption ahead of conspicuous consumption by wealthy interests.
- butlerm 4y ago
  European conditions aren't normal though - given adequate time new sources will be brought online and a new normal will be established. The prices can't and won't stay as high as they are projected to be under crisis conditions, new supply is less expensive than that.
  - Scoundreller 4y ago
    > given adequate time new sources will be brought online Or in the French condition: existing sources will be brought back online https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-restart-all-its-nuclear-reactors-by-this-winter-minister-says-2022-09-02/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/edf-restart-all-its-...
_fat_santa 4y ago
The problem with that is people don't monitor their usage. I'm sure some do but most I know just use power willy nilly and pay the bill at the end of the month. Doing this will result in alot of pissed off customers when they see a 5X increase in their bill.

dasil003 4y ago

Snark is too easy. What do you propose for tragedy of the commons scenarios like climate change?

trentnix 4y ago
This has nothing to do with climate change, and everything to do with a tangential topic: energy generation. Colorado has more residents with larger domiciles than ever before, and the supply has not kept up with the demand. Additionally, almost all investment has been in areas that are inconsistent in their ability to provide energy when it’s needed. Simply deciding for other people that they shouldn’t have access to energy because of your misplaced fears around climate change is a recipe for envy, bitterness, and significant societal unrest.