11 ms·

Interesting to contrast the IMDB rating with Rotten Tomatoes, not owned by Amazon, which currently has an audience rating of 38%. https://www.rottentomatoes.co

Interesting to contrast the IMDB rating with Rotten Tomatoes, not owned by Amazon, which currently has an audience rating of 38%. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_lord_of_the_rings_the_rings_of_power https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_lord_of_the_rings_the_... In my opinion, Steam does the best job of handling this tricky problem by leaving all reviews up and transparently letting the user pick whether or not to include periods of "unusual activity".

yakubin 4y ago
Nit: I'm seeing 36%.
- timbit42 4y ago
  People are still submitting ratings.
WastingMyTime89 4y ago
- ALittleLight 4y ago
  Suppose the show had been extremely faithful to the source material and hordes of Tolkien fans had reviewed it well. Would similar logic apply? That their good reviews should be deleted because they would be mostly useless to the broader audience?
- hdcivhd6 4y ago
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    I have trouble making sense of your comment. I believe people would like the ratings of a show to reflect its quality and be somewhat informative. Brigading by a subpopulation with vastly different interest to the general public interferes with that and that legitimises removing their reviews as far as I’m concerned.
    - true_religion 4y ago
      I'm not sure Tolkein fan's have a different interest than mine. I've never read the trilogy, and thus the only reason I'd invest time in watching this series this weekend is because I've heard it came from good source material. If it's not faithful to the source, then it's just on the same level as unknown author to me and I'll watch it when I find time... months from now, or maybe never.
      - subsistence234 4y ago
        >If it's not faithful to the source, then it's just on the same level as unknown author Yeah, kinda pointless to buy IP, only to then hire producers that don't understand what made the source material good.
      - Beltalowda 4y ago
        There is very little direct source material to speak of; The Hobbit and the LotR books take place much later, and the The Silmarillion and some other works take place much earlier. There are some notes and references here and there, but it's not much. Overall, I feel that's a good thing because this way you can both incorporate aspects of the original canon yet also have some freedom to do your own thing, kind of similar how The Next Generation taking place almost 100 years after the original series gave the writers some freedom. Of course, that doesn't mean it's actually any good. The first two series of TNG were notoriously bad (with a few exceptions) before it finally got on the right track and actually started making good stuff.
- slyall 4y ago
  "Tolkien Fans" might be painting it a little broad, how about "a vocal subset of fans". As for source material, there isn't a lot of source material on the Second Age. Also original movie trilogy didn't always stick to the source material.
- pseudo0 4y ago
  It seems kind of weird to characterize Tolkien fans being interested in a new, high-profile Lord of the Rings show as "brigading". Of course the people with the biggest emotional connection and interest in a franchise will be the ones most active in reviewing, creating YouTube videos, and discussing it online. I think the better question is why so many established sci-fi and franchises seem to be alienating their core audience, for example Star Wars, Wheel of Time, Halo, etc.
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    Because it’s not the core audience. People who care about the lore and source material are insignificant compared to the amount of people who just enjoy a lavish production in a medieval fantasy setting. Clearly Amazon is targeting the people who enjoyed the movies and want a similar experience in a TV show format. Most don’t really care that it conforms to what Tolkien wrote. Heck, I’m probably unusual compared to the average watcher in that I have actually read LotR and the Silmarillion as a teenager and I don’t care about fidelity to the source material.
    - mysterydip 4y ago
      Then why spend the money to get the rights to a known series at all? Make up a new IP in Generic Medieval Fantasy Land with lavish production values. No licensing or contract renewal fees, and you don't upset any existing audience.
      - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
        Because the movie trilogy was extremely successful and is associated with great production value by a whole generation? Don’t get me wrong I wish Amazon had the courage to just put 500 millions of dollar on completely new IP but that’s just not how American entertainment companies work.
        smileysteve 4y ago
        For Lord of the rings, it's also wise generational timing (akin to Star Wars episodes 1 and 7). The Fellowship of the Ring (film, 2001) is just over 20 years old, which creates, now, 25-45 year olds significant childhood nostalgia, just in time for them to be able to show their ~5-15 year old children (in their most formative years)
- Lacerda69 4y ago
  >the show is not faithful to the source material. I think it actually is pretty faithful to it. There is not a lot of sources for the 2nd age from Tolkien and they did a great job with what was there. Most of the bad reviews are just trolls screeching about some political agenda that is completely ubrelated to the show.
  - konfusinomicon 4y ago
    not sure if accurate because i know nothong beyond basic LOTR story but saw something that said if they were faithful to the source material nothing of interest would have happened until the middle of the 5th season
    - chrsig 4y ago
      No, they really skipped over a ton of the first age. With the second age, I think it'll come down to pacing. There are a number of notable events that quite literally reshape the world from the end of the first age to the beginning of the 3rd.
  - Kiro 4y ago
  - benpxu 4y ago
    The writing in it is pretty terrible though. Hopefully gets better.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- vintermann 4y ago
  If they don't care about the source material, then a story about Prince Cabosiam and the Dragons of Krongar would be just as fine. When someone pays to use famous names or famous stories as source material, then that's because that's valuable, and then it's self-evident that faithfulness matters.
  - matsemann 4y ago
    People love Gandalf, Aragorn, Galadriel, Legolas etc. and want to see more of them. People don't give a crap if any new story is "faithful". And judging faithfulness is subjective anyways, who are you to say the adaption is wrong?
    - vintermann 4y ago
      > People love Gandalf, Aragorn, Galadriel, Legolas etc. and want to see more of them. > People don't give a crap if any new story is "faithful". These two statements contradict. The net effect of it not being faithful, is that it doesn't feel like the Aragorn, Legolas, Galadriel etc. you knew. The casual fans will notice too, just a little later and maybe less consciously than the more dedicated fans.
      - matsemann 4y ago
        No. People love an old wizard in grey clothing. They don't give a crap if some lore said he beat 1 Balrog but in the show it was 5 giant orcs or whatever. Casuals have never read the background material, I just want to be entertained.
        vintermann 4y ago
        If that was true, as I told you, then there would be no reason to pay for the "IP". You can have an old wizard in grey clothing for free.
        matsemann 4y ago
- tasubotadas 4y ago
  It's called lord of the rings. Not lord of the woke and flops. They could have started a new saga with whatever setting they wanted but they picked a story with a (strong) legacy. Strong legacy comes with strong fans. Since they don't live up to the legacy they deserve (rightfully) to be mixed with dirt.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
  Oh no! Those pesky Tolkien fans! Maybe don’t call it a Tolkien adaptation if you’re bothered by Tolkien fans? Just call it “generic fantasy movie with elves and shit”, and Tolkien fans will leave you alone.
- stiltzkin 4y ago
  The "blame the fans" trick coined by Disney. at least they are not calling them manbabies.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  I set aside any/all gripes about canon before I started, knowing what I was getting into, and what got me was the poor quality of costume design/production, and the absolute garbage CGI that looks like videogame cutscenes.
- phantom_of_cato 4y ago
  Maybe, but it would be disingenuous to pretend that they are removing the negative reviews for that reason.
timbit42 4y ago
Metacritic has 2.6 out of 10.
ryantgtg 4y ago
What is interesting? It’s just review bombing.
- cscurmudgeon 4y ago
  Does IMDB act this way for non-Amazon movies? If not, this is real slimy.
nzealand 4y ago
While a third of the IMDB ratings are 10, another third of the ratings are 2 or 1. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/ratings/?ref_=tt_ov_rt https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/ratings/?ref_=tt_ov_rt I think the reviews are being flooded by two extreme opinions If you look at the ratings from the top 1000 raters, you get a more normal distribution. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/ratings?demo=top_1000_voters&ref_=ttrt_fltr_top_1000_voters https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/ratings?demo=top_1000_v... But it's really hard to trust anything about these numbers now we know Amazon has been deleting user written reviews that are negative.
- silisili 4y ago
  Reading the first page of user reviews on RT, one thing I found interesting is that the low and high reviews said similar things. The high reviews praise the set, setting, and production value. The low reviews also like the set, but claim they spent too much on production value, and nothing on writing.
  - yakubin 4y ago
    I'm not a LoTR fan[1], but I would agree about the writing. Some of the dialogues are complete joke. The entire beginning with Galadriel, her brother and her bullies sounds as if it was written by a 6yo, wrt logic and poor attempts at gravitas. Also the choreography of Galadriel's fight with the troll and writing of the scenes immediately leading up to that moment don't make any sense. On top of that, the whole thing feels poorly paced and boring. Note that in the above I haven't said anything about faithfulness to the lore, which I'm not particularly attached to. To me the show can't stand even on its own, much less as part of a larger whole. When it comes to stylisation, with Elves, at one point I felt as if I was watching Vulcans from Star Trek rather than Elves from LoTR. They obliterated all their features except the ears, and most of them look ridiculous (what's with the haircuts?). So: I'm not angry (since they didn't break anything I cared about). But I am completely unamused be the show. I won't continue watching it. [1]: I didn't dislike LoTR, but neither is it something I care all that much for.
- dwild 4y ago

yakubin 4y ago

Nit: I'm seeing 36%.

timbit42 4y ago
People are still submitting ratings.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago

ALittleLight 4y ago
Suppose the show had been extremely faithful to the source material and hordes of Tolkien fans had reviewed it well. Would similar logic apply? That their good reviews should be deleted because they would be mostly useless to the broader audience?
hdcivhd6 4y ago
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  I have trouble making sense of your comment. I believe people would like the ratings of a show to reflect its quality and be somewhat informative. Brigading by a subpopulation with vastly different interest to the general public interferes with that and that legitimises removing their reviews as far as I’m concerned.
  - true_religion 4y ago
    I'm not sure Tolkein fan's have a different interest than mine. I've never read the trilogy, and thus the only reason I'd invest time in watching this series this weekend is because I've heard it came from good source material. If it's not faithful to the source, then it's just on the same level as unknown author to me and I'll watch it when I find time... months from now, or maybe never.
    - subsistence234 4y ago
      >If it's not faithful to the source, then it's just on the same level as unknown author Yeah, kinda pointless to buy IP, only to then hire producers that don't understand what made the source material good.
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      There is very little direct source material to speak of; The Hobbit and the LotR books take place much later, and the The Silmarillion and some other works take place much earlier. There are some notes and references here and there, but it's not much. Overall, I feel that's a good thing because this way you can both incorporate aspects of the original canon yet also have some freedom to do your own thing, kind of similar how The Next Generation taking place almost 100 years after the original series gave the writers some freedom. Of course, that doesn't mean it's actually any good. The first two series of TNG were notoriously bad (with a few exceptions) before it finally got on the right track and actually started making good stuff.
slyall 4y ago
"Tolkien Fans" might be painting it a little broad, how about "a vocal subset of fans". As for source material, there isn't a lot of source material on the Second Age. Also original movie trilogy didn't always stick to the source material.
pseudo0 4y ago
It seems kind of weird to characterize Tolkien fans being interested in a new, high-profile Lord of the Rings show as "brigading". Of course the people with the biggest emotional connection and interest in a franchise will be the ones most active in reviewing, creating YouTube videos, and discussing it online. I think the better question is why so many established sci-fi and franchises seem to be alienating their core audience, for example Star Wars, Wheel of Time, Halo, etc.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  Because it’s not the core audience. People who care about the lore and source material are insignificant compared to the amount of people who just enjoy a lavish production in a medieval fantasy setting. Clearly Amazon is targeting the people who enjoyed the movies and want a similar experience in a TV show format. Most don’t really care that it conforms to what Tolkien wrote. Heck, I’m probably unusual compared to the average watcher in that I have actually read LotR and the Silmarillion as a teenager and I don’t care about fidelity to the source material.
  - mysterydip 4y ago
    Then why spend the money to get the rights to a known series at all? Make up a new IP in Generic Medieval Fantasy Land with lavish production values. No licensing or contract renewal fees, and you don't upset any existing audience.
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
      Because the movie trilogy was extremely successful and is associated with great production value by a whole generation? Don’t get me wrong I wish Amazon had the courage to just put 500 millions of dollar on completely new IP but that’s just not how American entertainment companies work.
      - smileysteve 4y ago
        For Lord of the rings, it's also wise generational timing (akin to Star Wars episodes 1 and 7). The Fellowship of the Ring (film, 2001) is just over 20 years old, which creates, now, 25-45 year olds significant childhood nostalgia, just in time for them to be able to show their ~5-15 year old children (in their most formative years)
Lacerda69 4y ago
>the show is not faithful to the source material. I think it actually is pretty faithful to it. There is not a lot of sources for the 2nd age from Tolkien and they did a great job with what was there. Most of the bad reviews are just trolls screeching about some political agenda that is completely ubrelated to the show.
- konfusinomicon 4y ago
  not sure if accurate because i know nothong beyond basic LOTR story but saw something that said if they were faithful to the source material nothing of interest would have happened until the middle of the 5th season
  - chrsig 4y ago
    No, they really skipped over a ton of the first age. With the second age, I think it'll come down to pacing. There are a number of notable events that quite literally reshape the world from the end of the first age to the beginning of the 3rd.
- Kiro 4y ago
- benpxu 4y ago
  The writing in it is pretty terrible though. Hopefully gets better.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
vintermann 4y ago
If they don't care about the source material, then a story about Prince Cabosiam and the Dragons of Krongar would be just as fine. When someone pays to use famous names or famous stories as source material, then that's because that's valuable, and then it's self-evident that faithfulness matters.
- matsemann 4y ago
  People love Gandalf, Aragorn, Galadriel, Legolas etc. and want to see more of them. People don't give a crap if any new story is "faithful". And judging faithfulness is subjective anyways, who are you to say the adaption is wrong?
  - vintermann 4y ago
    > People love Gandalf, Aragorn, Galadriel, Legolas etc. and want to see more of them. > People don't give a crap if any new story is "faithful". These two statements contradict. The net effect of it not being faithful, is that it doesn't feel like the Aragorn, Legolas, Galadriel etc. you knew. The casual fans will notice too, just a little later and maybe less consciously than the more dedicated fans.
    - matsemann 4y ago
      No. People love an old wizard in grey clothing. They don't give a crap if some lore said he beat 1 Balrog but in the show it was 5 giant orcs or whatever. Casuals have never read the background material, I just want to be entertained.
      - vintermann 4y ago
        If that was true, as I told you, then there would be no reason to pay for the "IP". You can have an old wizard in grey clothing for free.
        matsemann 4y ago
tasubotadas 4y ago
It's called lord of the rings. Not lord of the woke and flops. They could have started a new saga with whatever setting they wanted but they picked a story with a (strong) legacy. Strong legacy comes with strong fans. Since they don't live up to the legacy they deserve (rightfully) to be mixed with dirt.
aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
Oh no! Those pesky Tolkien fans! Maybe don’t call it a Tolkien adaptation if you’re bothered by Tolkien fans? Just call it “generic fantasy movie with elves and shit”, and Tolkien fans will leave you alone.
stiltzkin 4y ago
The "blame the fans" trick coined by Disney. at least they are not calling them manbabies.
nibbleshifter 4y ago
I set aside any/all gripes about canon before I started, knowing what I was getting into, and what got me was the poor quality of costume design/production, and the absolute garbage CGI that looks like videogame cutscenes.
phantom_of_cato 4y ago
Maybe, but it would be disingenuous to pretend that they are removing the negative reviews for that reason.

timbit42 4y ago

Metacritic has 2.6 out of 10.

ryantgtg 4y ago

What is interesting? It’s just review bombing.

cscurmudgeon 4y ago
Does IMDB act this way for non-Amazon movies? If not, this is real slimy.

nzealand 4y ago

While a third of the IMDB ratings are 10, another third of the ratings are 2 or 1. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/ratings/?ref_=tt_ov_rt https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/ratings/?ref_=tt_ov_rt I think the reviews are being flooded by two extreme opinions If you look at the ratings from the top 1000 raters, you get a more normal distribution. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/ratings?demo=top_1000_voters&ref_=ttrt_fltr_top_1000_voters https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/ratings?demo=top_1000_v... But it's really hard to trust anything about these numbers now we know Amazon has been deleting user written reviews that are negative.

silisili 4y ago
Reading the first page of user reviews on RT, one thing I found interesting is that the low and high reviews said similar things. The high reviews praise the set, setting, and production value. The low reviews also like the set, but claim they spent too much on production value, and nothing on writing.
- yakubin 4y ago
  I'm not a LoTR fan[1], but I would agree about the writing. Some of the dialogues are complete joke. The entire beginning with Galadriel, her brother and her bullies sounds as if it was written by a 6yo, wrt logic and poor attempts at gravitas. Also the choreography of Galadriel's fight with the troll and writing of the scenes immediately leading up to that moment don't make any sense. On top of that, the whole thing feels poorly paced and boring. Note that in the above I haven't said anything about faithfulness to the lore, which I'm not particularly attached to. To me the show can't stand even on its own, much less as part of a larger whole. When it comes to stylisation, with Elves, at one point I felt as if I was watching Vulcans from Star Trek rather than Elves from LoTR. They obliterated all their features except the ears, and most of them look ridiculous (what's with the haircuts?). So: I'm not angry (since they didn't break anything I cared about). But I am completely unamused be the show. I won't continue watching it. [1]: I didn't dislike LoTR, but neither is it something I care all that much for.
dwild 4y ago