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FWIW, Ye's story has been reported on Chinese media since at least 2007: https://web.archive.org/web/20170309082422/http://sports.sohu.com/20071116/n253284057.s

by xiaq 4y ago

FWIW, Ye's story has been reported on Chinese media since at least 2007: https://web.archive.org/web/20170309082422/http://sports.sohu.com/20071116/n253284057.shtml https://web.archive.org/web/20170309082422/http://sports.soh.... Unfortunately Google Translate doesn't seem to work on wayback machine, but you can copy paste the text. Funnily enough, at least in this particular report, it is her coach who told the story. Really shows how this behavior was normalized enough for it not to be considered too shameful to admit. The reason Ye and her husband are persona non grata is unrelated to the Olympic incident, but because her husband is involved in the "New Federal State of China" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Federal_State_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Federal_State_of_China). Supposedly this is what the "fierce criticism" the article is referring to.

noobermin 4y ago
That's fine, but it should be fine and possible to criticize someone for their actions yet acknowledge their past sports achievements. It sounds like the Chinese media has chosen to forget their achievements.
- xiaq 4y ago
  I don't intend to criticize Ye. Her story deserves to be known regardless of whether it's been reported before or any of her possible involvement in fringe political groups.
  - noobermin 4y ago
    To be clear, I'm not talking about you specifically, I'm talking about the media and online company response to her, at least that which is alledged in the article.
- nradov 4y ago
  Chinese media is simply a state propaganda organ. You're not going to get accurate, nuanced reporting from them without a regime change.
  - eldenwrong 4y ago
    Most media is state propaganda. Has literally always been.
    - somat 4y ago
      Government lies, and newspapers lie, but in a democracy they are different lies.
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        Well except for the 'masks are useless', 'WMDs in Iraq', 'Fatty foods are more harmful than sugar', etc... which had no major outlets dissenting.
slim 4y ago
shows how this behavior was normalized enough for it not to be considered too shameful to admit what's to be ashamed of? every sport becomes a tactical team sport at the olympics. it's nation vs nation. and any coach from any nation will try to do the same thing (success probably depends on the personality of the athlete)
- whoisjuan 4y ago
  The problem with that isn’t the goal but the means to achieve that goal. Perhaps if they trained their players with a collective mentality where the greater good justifies letting go of personal success, this would make sense. But I’m pretty sure that’s not the case. Most Olympic athletes create a personal goal system, especially if competing in an individual discipline. Winning a gold medal has a profound meaning for them. Helping their country to win a gold medal by giving up their personal chance to do it and winning a bronze medal instead has way less meaning. So you’re not wrong, but it’s still pretty fucked up if you ask me.
  - arinlen 4y ago
    > But I’m pretty sure that’s not the case. Most Olympic athletes create a personal goal system, especially if competing in an individual discipline. Winning a gold medal has a profound meaning for them. This. Imagine a life time of having been hammered in day and night that you need to try harder to be the best and suffering is nothing when seeking eternal glory and win over everyone and achieve your full potential and this is your only shot... ...and then, when you are almost there, here comes the party official and says "wow not so fast there."
  - dirtyid 4y ago
    >not the case. That's the case in PRC athletic system, especially in events PRC dominate in, where the bench is deep enough to get multiple podium placements, so roster crafting like this happens to maximize country medal count. > personal goal system, especially if competing in an individual discipline This is really where individual vs collective sport systems/philosophies diverge. PRC state sport development programs are more about reflecting state capacity / winning medals than individual prestige (like USSR). Young kids from backwater shitholes with little other prospects gets recruited into the athletic development pipeline and unless they're thoroughly dominant, are just one of several alternatives that can guarantee medals in events PRC specializes in. These athletes generally aren't kids of upper middle class families from developing countries with resources to largely negotiate through the amateur sport system themselves who are then apportioned commiserate glory when they win. PRC sport developement is a more all empassing national / institutional effort - it's a team effort from day one that generates enough talent in certain events that's feasible to play team order shenanigans.

by xiaq 4y ago

noobermin 4y ago

That's fine, but it should be fine and possible to criticize someone for their actions yet acknowledge their past sports achievements. It sounds like the Chinese media has chosen to forget their achievements.

xiaq 4y ago
I don't intend to criticize Ye. Her story deserves to be known regardless of whether it's been reported before or any of her possible involvement in fringe political groups.
- noobermin 4y ago
  To be clear, I'm not talking about you specifically, I'm talking about the media and online company response to her, at least that which is alledged in the article.
nradov 4y ago
Chinese media is simply a state propaganda organ. You're not going to get accurate, nuanced reporting from them without a regime change.
- eldenwrong 4y ago
  Most media is state propaganda. Has literally always been.
  - somat 4y ago
    Government lies, and newspapers lie, but in a democracy they are different lies.
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      Well except for the 'masks are useless', 'WMDs in Iraq', 'Fatty foods are more harmful than sugar', etc... which had no major outlets dissenting.

slim 4y ago

shows how this behavior was normalized enough for it not to be considered too shameful to admit what's to be ashamed of? every sport becomes a tactical team sport at the olympics. it's nation vs nation. and any coach from any nation will try to do the same thing (success probably depends on the personality of the athlete)

whoisjuan 4y ago
The problem with that isn’t the goal but the means to achieve that goal. Perhaps if they trained their players with a collective mentality where the greater good justifies letting go of personal success, this would make sense. But I’m pretty sure that’s not the case. Most Olympic athletes create a personal goal system, especially if competing in an individual discipline. Winning a gold medal has a profound meaning for them. Helping their country to win a gold medal by giving up their personal chance to do it and winning a bronze medal instead has way less meaning. So you’re not wrong, but it’s still pretty fucked up if you ask me.
- arinlen 4y ago
  > But I’m pretty sure that’s not the case. Most Olympic athletes create a personal goal system, especially if competing in an individual discipline. Winning a gold medal has a profound meaning for them. This. Imagine a life time of having been hammered in day and night that you need to try harder to be the best and suffering is nothing when seeking eternal glory and win over everyone and achieve your full potential and this is your only shot... ...and then, when you are almost there, here comes the party official and says "wow not so fast there."
- dirtyid 4y ago
  >not the case. That's the case in PRC athletic system, especially in events PRC dominate in, where the bench is deep enough to get multiple podium placements, so roster crafting like this happens to maximize country medal count. > personal goal system, especially if competing in an individual discipline This is really where individual vs collective sport systems/philosophies diverge. PRC state sport development programs are more about reflecting state capacity / winning medals than individual prestige (like USSR). Young kids from backwater shitholes with little other prospects gets recruited into the athletic development pipeline and unless they're thoroughly dominant, are just one of several alternatives that can guarantee medals in events PRC specializes in. These athletes generally aren't kids of upper middle class families from developing countries with resources to largely negotiate through the amateur sport system themselves who are then apportioned commiserate glory when they win. PRC sport developement is a more all empassing national / institutional effort - it's a team effort from day one that generates enough talent in certain events that's feasible to play team order shenanigans.