5 ms·

You know he had Bernie Sanders on right? And not Trump? LOL.

by seper8 4y ago

sascha_sl 4y ago
I literally did mention that as one notable exception?
- nradov 4y ago
  And Andrew Yang and Tulsi Gabbard and the list goes on...
  - sascha_sl 4y ago
    I'll be impressed if he has Hasan Piker on. That's not just a random bar I set, it's been pretty heavily requested - but everyone knows it wouldn't happen because of prior criticism. Even Tim Pool invites people to the left of the liberal democratic baseline (that I'd call center-right at best, but I'm also used to a more european notion of left and right) occasionally. Why not the JRE? The Bernie interview was great, but it was a tactical campaign move. He wasn't going to be too contrarian with Joe when the audience is Joe's.
  - Cesura 4y ago
    Are these supposed to be examples of leftists? Tulsi recently filled in as a host on Tucker Carlson's show...the same show actively peddling the Great Replacement theory (among other far-right conspiracies) to millions of Americans.
    - nradov 4y ago
      Yes, Tulsi Gabbard is a leftist based on any rational analysis of her actual voting record. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/tulsi_gabbard/412532 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/tulsi_gabbard/41253... She might not be as far left as you would prefer, but there is no doubt she is on the left side of the US political spectrum. (And please don't bother wasting our time with that tired old trope about the Democrats being equivalent to center-right party in European politics. We're not in Europe.)
      - ModernMech 4y ago
        Despite your parenthetical attempt to sidestep this fact, being barely on the left side of the US political spectrum doesn't make one a "leftist". Meaning that people who consider themselves leftists don't agree with Tulsi Gabbard. It's hard to point to a voting record as evidence of one being a leftist or not, when actual leftist policies are not typically put up for a vote in America. Her ideological score puts her in line with Tim Ryan, who is currently running for Senate in right-leaning Ohio, and is competitive because of the very fact he isn't a leftist. Despite what you may hear, not all Democrats are socialists. Far from it.
      - Cesura 4y ago
        Your interpretation makes sense if you consider leftist to be a purely relative classification. We don't even need to look outside of the US to understand why that's not a very meaningful way to think about ideology: the Overton window within the Republican party has undergone a substantial shift to the right since the 1970s [1]. Without even loosely-defined characterizations of what a political ideology is and where it falls on our (albeit very imperfect) scale, terms like "leftism" are doomed to a future of being weaponized by their opponents, who themselves shift right and decry moderates as "radicals". All of that aside, I'd still like to hear your rationalization for her recent appearance as the host of a far-right talk show where she, among other things, referred to the sitting attorney general's investigation of a former President's alleged crimes as one having "all hallmarks of a dictatorship". Is hosting Tucker's program an endorsement of every position he's ever espoused? Surely not. But I'd say it's a level of support akin to giving a speech at a political candidate's rally... [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/FT_22.02.22_CongressPolarization_chamber_party_new1.png https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/FT_22...
      - screye 4y ago
        To add to your point, there is a kernel of truth in the 'the left keeps moving goalposts' meme [1]. In present internet discourse, 5-percentile radical leftist opinions are peddled as if they represent any significant group of people in this nation. Anyone who does not agree with their often non-scientific ideological framework is labelled as right-wing-fascist irrespective of ground realities surrounding the person or the topic. What we're witnessing here is a takeover of the American left by a very particular strain of political activism. Like all activists, they too care more about ascendency in the power struggle and aesthetic markers of cultural victory, instead of practical solutions for improving the lives of the population they represent. > We're not in Europe If Europe had anywhere near the racial/cultural/religious diversity of the US, then they'd be on their way to a swift turn to the right. Orban is the canary, and the rise of the right in Germany/France/Italy is exactly representative of that phenomenon. Social safety nets do not make for left-liberal ideology. Most of these socialist-paragons demand incredible conformity (scandinavia) and have restrictive abortion laws [2] among other traditionally right-wing traits. [1] https://preview.redd.it/iwnju4entbw81.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=c7ee9cb2f5502859aaada2b0bd8130da449d5b68 https://preview.redd.it/iwnju4entbw81.jpg?width=1024&auto=we... [2] https://dynomight.net/abortion/ https://dynomight.net/abortion/

You know he had Bernie Sanders on right? And not Trump? LOL.

by seper8 4y ago

You know he had Bernie Sanders on right? And not Trump? LOL.

sascha_sl 4y ago

I literally did mention that as one notable exception?

nradov 4y ago
And Andrew Yang and Tulsi Gabbard and the list goes on...
- sascha_sl 4y ago
  I'll be impressed if he has Hasan Piker on. That's not just a random bar I set, it's been pretty heavily requested - but everyone knows it wouldn't happen because of prior criticism. Even Tim Pool invites people to the left of the liberal democratic baseline (that I'd call center-right at best, but I'm also used to a more european notion of left and right) occasionally. Why not the JRE? The Bernie interview was great, but it was a tactical campaign move. He wasn't going to be too contrarian with Joe when the audience is Joe's.
- Cesura 4y ago
  Are these supposed to be examples of leftists? Tulsi recently filled in as a host on Tucker Carlson's show...the same show actively peddling the Great Replacement theory (among other far-right conspiracies) to millions of Americans.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Yes, Tulsi Gabbard is a leftist based on any rational analysis of her actual voting record. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/tulsi_gabbard/412532 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/tulsi_gabbard/41253... She might not be as far left as you would prefer, but there is no doubt she is on the left side of the US political spectrum. (And please don't bother wasting our time with that tired old trope about the Democrats being equivalent to center-right party in European politics. We're not in Europe.)
    - ModernMech 4y ago
      Despite your parenthetical attempt to sidestep this fact, being barely on the left side of the US political spectrum doesn't make one a "leftist". Meaning that people who consider themselves leftists don't agree with Tulsi Gabbard. It's hard to point to a voting record as evidence of one being a leftist or not, when actual leftist policies are not typically put up for a vote in America. Her ideological score puts her in line with Tim Ryan, who is currently running for Senate in right-leaning Ohio, and is competitive because of the very fact he isn't a leftist. Despite what you may hear, not all Democrats are socialists. Far from it.
    - Cesura 4y ago
      Your interpretation makes sense if you consider leftist to be a purely relative classification. We don't even need to look outside of the US to understand why that's not a very meaningful way to think about ideology: the Overton window within the Republican party has undergone a substantial shift to the right since the 1970s [1]. Without even loosely-defined characterizations of what a political ideology is and where it falls on our (albeit very imperfect) scale, terms like "leftism" are doomed to a future of being weaponized by their opponents, who themselves shift right and decry moderates as "radicals". All of that aside, I'd still like to hear your rationalization for her recent appearance as the host of a far-right talk show where she, among other things, referred to the sitting attorney general's investigation of a former President's alleged crimes as one having "all hallmarks of a dictatorship". Is hosting Tucker's program an endorsement of every position he's ever espoused? Surely not. But I'd say it's a level of support akin to giving a speech at a political candidate's rally... [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/FT_22.02.22_CongressPolarization_chamber_party_new1.png https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/FT_22...
    - screye 4y ago
      To add to your point, there is a kernel of truth in the 'the left keeps moving goalposts' meme [1]. In present internet discourse, 5-percentile radical leftist opinions are peddled as if they represent any significant group of people in this nation. Anyone who does not agree with their often non-scientific ideological framework is labelled as right-wing-fascist irrespective of ground realities surrounding the person or the topic. What we're witnessing here is a takeover of the American left by a very particular strain of political activism. Like all activists, they too care more about ascendency in the power struggle and aesthetic markers of cultural victory, instead of practical solutions for improving the lives of the population they represent. > We're not in Europe If Europe had anywhere near the racial/cultural/religious diversity of the US, then they'd be on their way to a swift turn to the right. Orban is the canary, and the rise of the right in Germany/France/Italy is exactly representative of that phenomenon. Social safety nets do not make for left-liberal ideology. Most of these socialist-paragons demand incredible conformity (scandinavia) and have restrictive abortion laws [2] among other traditionally right-wing traits. [1] https://preview.redd.it/iwnju4entbw81.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=c7ee9cb2f5502859aaada2b0bd8130da449d5b68 https://preview.redd.it/iwnju4entbw81.jpg?width=1024&auto=we... [2] https://dynomight.net/abortion/ https://dynomight.net/abortion/