13 ms·

The rise of 'stealerships' and the shady economics of car buying

jeffwask 4y ago
I know Carvana has issues but this is why I love using it. I have bought and sold without all the slime of entering a dealership
- kube-system 4y ago
  I don't personally understand the appeal. While some dealerships are certainly sketchy, I've found high-volume traditional dealerships to be pretty straightforward. They price them to sell, you pay the price that's posted on the sticker/website.
  - oangemangut 4y ago
    for me it's the archaic 'sales practices' they go through. The bait and switching in advertising, the us vs them dynamic they try to create with the sale managers, finalizing a price with sales and then having finance try to wring more out of you, or saying the price isn't possible unless x y z. I'll never go through that again.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      I've never had an issue with an a dealer honoring an ad. I always print it out and bring it with me. It's pretty illegal if they don't. Financing is financing. It's not the car. If you show up without knowing how you're going to pay for the car, well... you showed up without knowing how you're going to pay for the car. Yeah, they'll ask about extended warranties and such, but it's just a matter of saying "no" a couple of times while signing paperwork.
- lastofthemojito 4y ago
  I know some people have had good experiences with Carvana (especially when they already know what they want, and said car that is configured just-so is halfway across the country) - but I hate the idea of online shopping for the test-drive phase of car shopping. Seeing a panoramic view of the car's interior isn't enough, I need to feel it. "Oh, don't worry, Carvana has a 7-day money back guarantee" - yeah, I don't want to have to unwind a major transaction just to test-drive a car. Especially if I'm trading in a car as part of the transaction - from what I've read if you trade in a car to Carvana and then decide to return the car you've purchased, they don't bring your old car back. I wish there was a service where you could give them say a hundred bucks and they'd deliver maybe your top 5 cars to your house to poke around and test drive. The Zappos experience (they encourage people to order multiple sizes to try on and make the returns easy) but for cars instead of shoes.
  - culturestate 4y ago
    > I wish there was a service where you could give them say a hundred bucks and they'd deliver maybe your top 5 cars to your house to poke around and test drive. Trying to imagine the logistics of getting this done - profitably - within a Carvana-like model for anything close to $100 just broke my brain.
    - lastofthemojito 4y ago
      I live fairly close to the cluster of car dealerships in my area so maybe my perception is skewed, but it doesn't seem crazy to me that 2 sales guys from the Honda dealer would drive 5 minutes to my house to drop off an Accord (and then go back in 1 car), 2 sales guys from the Toyota dealer would drive 5 minutes to my house to drop off a Camry, etc... Seems like they're constantly making little trips to pick up cars from satellite lots, drop off cars for maintenance, fuel up cars, etc. This might only work for dealerships within a certain distance of course. But right, the part about doing it profitably would probably require a dealership that gets a successful sales lead to pay a fee to such a service.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Hertz has (or used to have) a "rent to own" deal with cars. You go to their lot of used cars, you poke and prod them, then you rent one you think you'll like for a week for a couple bills. If you decide to keep it, the rental cost is put against the purchase and you keep the car, if you don't like it you return and try again.
- simonebrunozzi 4y ago
  Which issues have you experienced, or know about?
  - jeffwask 4y ago
    https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/767332-clastic/5659699-carvana-ponzi-collapsing https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/767332-clastic/5659699-ca...
  - Kon-Peki 4y ago
    Here's one(two?) https://www.autoblog.com/2022/07/20/carvana-illinois-license-suspended/ https://www.autoblog.com/2022/07/20/carvana-illinois-license... PS - they've been reinstated again. Maybe.
- creaghpatr 4y ago
  I had a wild experience on Carvana. Bought the car (used, with 14k miles), they were going to ship it to my local Carvana pickup and the day before I get a message to effect of, "Hey we just tried to start your car and it's not starting so we don't recommend you buy this car" . All fees refunded, I was confused but grateful, no one followed up to try and get me to buy another car (other than garden variety email list marketing). Ended up buying a friend of a friends old car for way less two weeks later.
  - qzw 4y ago
    They may have sold your car for more money to another buyer locally.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      This is exactly what happened. Or some employee decided they wanted it themselves. If you still had the VIN you could probably search what happened, heh.
- tehwebguy 4y ago
  Wish they would stop clogging all the local Craigslist boards but at least they correctly mark them as "by dealer," making them easy to filter out
chrisseaton 4y ago
Why engage in a back-and-forth with these people? Configure the car you want on the manufacturer website, note the list price, then send the configuration you want to a few dealers in your area and ask them to quote for delivering you that car. Accept the best quote. If they want to debate you about it, ask them to either quote you or forget it. There are even apps which enforce this - they get to quote you but can't communicate otherwise.
- awad 4y ago
  Interesting - do you have the names of any of those apps?
  - qzw 4y ago
    TrueCar used to be a pretty good one, and was the service behind Sam’s Club and USAA’s auto buying programs. But it’s pretty much no longer worth the bother now. Don’t know of anything newer that’s better. Keep in mind that no app can work miracles in a crazy market. They all ultimately depend on dealers competing with each other to deliver any value, but dealers just haven’t needed to compete in the last couple of years.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    In the UK there is Carwow. You may not like the prices you get these days, but it's a market, and at least it's a take-it-or-leave-it price.
- qzw 4y ago
  That’s how it used to work (and still does for some less in demand/in short supply models), but if you’re after something that’s even moderately popular (most SUVs and EVs), you’ll hardly see any replies nowadays. That was the case when trying to get my wife a new crossover recently. We ended up placing an order in person with a dealer that “only” charged MSRP without a bunch of crazy add-ons, albeit with an additional dealer fee (pure profit) of $800. But when the car showed up 3 months later it was missing power seats due to a supply shortage. We walked from the deal and are now shopping again. Fun times.
- 4y ago
Cupertino95014 4y ago
Who goes to a dealership to buy a car anymore? In 1991 I bought my Miata online (I think. Maybe it was over the phone), and they delivered it to a dealer near me, where I just picked it up. Alternatives to dealers have been around forever.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  People that can't wait 6+ months for a new car.
- guywithahat 4y ago
  Well you just bought from a dealership, and what's more is that dealership was under no real obligation to sell to you. They could have accepted the car from Mazda and sold it to someone else. The issue this article really looks into is that we invited government into auto sales for some reason who required dealerships (among other things) be mandatory and independent, so when Ford released the Bronco or Maverick and they turned out to be popular, Ford might say "this Maverick is worth 25k" and then the dealership would mark it up to 40k and there was nothing the buyer could do about it, even if you ordered from Ford. Dealerships would accept your vehicle, say you need to pay an additional 10k, and if you don't they won't let you leave with the car
  - Cupertino95014 4y ago
    Yeah, but that didn't happen. Those were normal times. These are not. Do you have some evidence that it does, nowadays? I've heard of it happening with an electric car, but those are in such insane demand that normal rules don't apply.
  - Cupertino95014 4y ago
    That might be, but you don't have to have the most popular car that year, or do you? The first year, that was happening with the Miata. The second year, things got back to normal and I paid sticker price.
- sidewndr46 4y ago
  Was this before or after Al Gore invented the internet?
jeffbee 4y ago
Why do people get all worked up over a difference ± a few hundred dollars on a very expensive purchase? When I want to buy a car, which I admit rarely happens, I look at the advertised price and if I'm willing to pay that price then I call the dealer and if I'm not, I don't. If the paperwork shows up with a different number on it then I tell them to leave, and it's their time, not mine, that was wasted. I just really don't get the whole haggling thing. If you want a lower price, wait until one is being advertised, or substitute a different model, or get a bicycle.
- matwood 4y ago
  I agree. It's why Carmax did well even pre-internet delivery companies. Were they the cheapest? No, but the prices were fine, you could shop online, and no one did any hard sales job.
  - bitsnbytes 4y ago
    I hate the dealership experience and games they play and have always wanted to buy from carmax. However , I have yet purchased a car from carmax, because they have been typically over $3.5K+ overpriced , for the same year ,model, and equivalent condition that I can get it at the scummy dealers. Typical car shopping experience. Now this has to be modified a little depending if its a buyers or sellers market. However for the most part 1. Determine the car ,model,year, and condition of the car I want. 2. Browse carmax and set that as my highest price. 3. Email and go to local dealers and offer $3.5K- below carmax asking price than add tax and title to submit your offer as and out the door price. 4. Some don't responded but some do . 5. Go to dealerships ones that said they can do it at near the end of the month. 6. Then expect for them to do the bait and switch and send you to the backend manager who plays online games on his laptop for about an hour pretending to do something when they are really just trying to break you down. So when the manager comes into play I typically say great just give me a call or I come back after a couple of hours. so I don't wait there for no reason. 7. Manager plays the if he sold me the car for what I asked then they would be out of business. Then I say why did you agree to it and either I stay firm on my original offer or go up 500 bucks. they typically still don't approve at this stage which is expected and fine so I walk knowing they already have my contact information. 8. Play the wait game . Typically 1 or 2 weeks later I get a call back. They Agree for my original counter offer. 9. I go back in to sign the paperwork 10. The carsalesman is all giddy and sends me back to the manager and financier to close on the deal. 11. I get back and I see additional charges such as dealer fees and other bs which I say thank you but no thank you and the offer I submitted was out the door price. Sometimes I walk out again or they remove the charges . fun stuff but like I said playing the stupid game has saved me $3.5K most times. The key is willing and having the time to play the stupid game with them, willing to walk, and not have an immediate need for a car. There have been also times where I have been less willing to haggle on the price but even then I can typically get the car 1.5K below car max with little effort. When I buy new its a little trickier but I never pay anywhere near the msrp.
RunSet 4y ago
> To be fair to dealerships, they do provide important services. They offer a distribution and service network, which is vital to both manufacturers and car buyers. Until they don't. Throwback to that time "the world's largest Chevrolet dealer"[0] went under like Jacques Cousteau[1]. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20070202025849/http://www.billheard.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20070202025849/http://www.billhe... [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20170901203212/http://www.tbo.com/business/business/2008/sep/25/bill-heard-chevrolet-customers-freaking-out-ar-119159/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170901203212/http://www.tbo.co...
encryptluks2 4y ago
I find it strange that dealerships can be so scammy, and the manufacturer acts like it has no impact on how people view their brand.
- kube-system 4y ago
  Manufacturers know it has an impact on their brand, but they're legally compelled to put up with it.
- dymk 4y ago
  > At least some automakers know this. Earlier this year, Hyundai Motor Company sent a letter to its dealerships urging them to end deceptive practices, such as advertising a low price online and then charging a much higher price when customers go into the store. The company complained that sky-high markups were "damaging our brands' long-term ability to capture new customers and retain loyal ones."
- kurupt213 4y ago
  Subaru cares. They’ll take away the cars
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    From the vehicle owner or dealership? I had the worst experience with Toyota. I don't think I'd ever buy a Toyota again. The manufacturer was like... We only make the cars and don't care what happens at the dealership. Also what is up with dealerships and mandatory arbitration agreements? So you can't buy a car now without signing an arbitration agreement?
    - kurupt213 4y ago
      They threatened to cancel contracts with dealerships who don’t provide the expected Subaru experience. Subaru’s brand value is so high that Fuji heavy industries renamed themselves Subaru after their car mfg division
akshayB 4y ago
I recently went through a car buying process and it was extremely brutal. You signup paying for Doc fee ($600), even gas, other hidden fees, and outrageous charges. Another issue I noticed was you are forced into buying overprized accessories like first aid kit ($150), car mats and even cargo nets. After all this we ended up buying from craigslist as to my surprise some of these charges cannot be even waved, you don't stand a chance as people are willing to pay for these things and dealership just move to next customer.
- kylehotchkiss 4y ago
  Is the doc fees just the DMV paperwork? That's always a fee when you buy.
  - akshayB 4y ago
    DMV, Loan, trade-in it all depends
BeetleB 4y ago
Every one I know hates car dealerships. Yet 90% of them refuse to buy a used car from a private party. While it's true they have a lobby and have twisted the arms of legislators, it's also true that people prefer buying from them. And when they don't buy from them, they buy from CarMax which, for used cars, is even worse than buying from a dealer (pre-pandemic). What keeps people from buying from private parties? Unwillingness to plan and save money (i.e. refuse to buy car without financing). Even for under $10K Being scared of getting a lemon because they lack knowledge about cars. I too lack that knowledge, which is why I get a trusted mechanic to check out any car I buy. Hasn't failed me in 20 years. Used car warranties are useless - they don't last long. And the last time I went car shopping, every used car from the dealer that seemed like a good price had serious problems when I took it to the mechanic. Never get a used car from a dealer if they don't let you take it to a mechanic. Quicker process: It may take a while finding a good used car via Private Party. OTOH, there are plenty of dealers one can walk into. However, once you find a car you like, the process is much smoother with private party. You either agree on a price or you don't. No hidden fees. You know exactly what you're getting. Edit: I just want to be clear: I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy private party. If you're happy with avoiding the "hassle", that's fine. My point is that for all the complaints about dealers, the reality is people prefer them.
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- qzw 4y ago
  People don’t have trusted mechanics or know how to get one. For the majority of people, the dealer where they got the car is their “(somewhat) trusted mechanic”. That’s why they go to dealers or CarMax and pay a huge premium, just for the psychological comfort. And for certain premium brands, a certified preowned car that comes with an extended warranty might not even be that bad of a deal, at least during normal market conditions.
  - 4y ago
zachshefska 4y ago
Disclaimer; I run a popular youtube channel educating consumers on car buying. Greg did a good job documenting the challenges of buying a car in today's market. Fortunately, we are starting to see a softening in consumer demand which has led to used car prices to begin to drop in some areas and for certain types of vehicles. We expect that as automakers increase production we'll go away from markups. The timeline for that is tricky since Asian brands (Toyota and Honda especially) are struggling MUCH more than American automakers. MSRPs are rising fast too, so while dealer markups may disappear as demand weakens and supply increases, don't be surprised if you see MSRPs that are 5-10% higher year over year. Wait times right now for hybrid vehicles are over a year. The push to PHEV and BEV will continue to be delayed due to ridiculous prices. The average transaction price for a new EV last month was north of $66,000. Not affordable. Great insights in Greg's article. I wish we could have helped him before he embarked on the journey.
- germinalphrase 4y ago
  Are Japanese manufactures supply constrained due to chip shortages in particular?
- ghaff 4y ago
  The current supply shortages made the process less bothersome for me in some ways because I didn't really expect to have much luck haggling. Wasn't perfect. "In transit" meant it wasn't built yet and I was in a bit of a hurry. (Had car but car had problems.) Doc fee was high. A couple of 50% BS sets of "factory installed options." (Though got price tacked onto my pretty generous trade-in.) Some annoying attempts to upsell but "no" worked fine. Didn't need financing. But overall, it was a couple of visits and a few hours and I got the vehicle (Honda) in six weeks.
- sremani 4y ago
  Hey Zack, I was about to plug your channel. Good work bro!
everdrive 4y ago
I've been buying cars second-hand from private parties for my last three cars. It's been a great experience. Everyone's been honest so far, and I've never had unreasonable problems with any of the cars. I'm not sure I'd ever go to a dealership again. They make things so painful, and wring as much money and stress out of you as possible. There seems to be zero benefit for the consumer.
- tehwebguy 4y ago
  This is the way! When buying used from a private seller you really can find almost anything you want at a substantial discount if your timeline is not urgent.
- toomanyrichies 4y ago
  I anticipate moving to Los Angeles within the next 12 months and am absolutely dreading the inevitability of needing to buy a car. I haven't needed a car since 2007 since I've lived in a series of major cities with excellent train/bus/subway systems. Every single day, I've said a silent prayer of thanks that I haven't had to pay for gas or insurance / sit in traffic / deal with road rage (mine or that of others) / worry about someone keying my car or stealing my catalytic converter. Reading the comments here about peoples' experiences at dealerships, I kept thinking "Do I really need to move to LA? Is there any other way I can accomplish my goals?" I'm glad to see you've had success dealing with private parties. This is absolutely the way I will go when it comes time for me to bite the bullet and buy a car.
  - mxuribe 4y ago
    Well, LA has some nice weather...Have you considered maybe looking into a three-wheeler like a Can Am Spyder [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can-Am_motorcycles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can-Am_motorcycles]? (As someone who is a big fan of motorcycles, I used to recommend folks to consider the wonderful life of 2 wheels, but i understand not everyone would be into it...plus LA traffic might make conventional motorcycles risky for new riders.) Of course, I'm assuming that an alternative like that a three-wheeler might be cheaper, or more obtainable (either new or used). Then again, if your job is not far from where you will live, could a bicycle fit the need - either electric or conventional?
fleddr 4y ago
This is why when you buy a car, you go in with a person that knows cars. Or consult them whilst you browse online. Be frugal with options/extras. Don't show excitement. If you're poor at negotiating, try the brute force approach of an exit. Doesn't matter what the offer is, just laugh, mumble something, and exit the venue. They'll normally stop you. Don't bite at the second offer either, they were already taking that into account. Hassle some more. This assumes a market where the seller has a very strong incentive to sell, so not when there's lots of buyers. Have bullet proof facts ready, like prices for the same car elsewhere. In short, come prepared.
twblalock 4y ago
I hope the example of Tesla's successful direct sales model, and Ford and GM's current frustration with dealers marking up popular EVs, will result in the large auto companies lobbying to remove the protectionist laws that force the dealership model on consumers.
- ISL 4y ago
  Unlikely -- Saturn had consumer-friendly no-hassle pricing (and vehicles) in the 1990s. That model hasn't returned. (Also, the superlative owners' manual for my wife's Saturn was a user-friendly document designed with the end-user in mind. Never seen anything like it before or since.)
cycomanic 4y ago
During my studies when I was overseas we had a seminar on how to buy a car in NZ. The guy was absolutely awesome, he told us about a lot of the tricks employed by dealers from subtle things like mirrors where you are supposed to park the car (you see yourself in the mirror) to things like working you with two people (it's much harder to resist 2 people arguing with you, also why you should never go by yourself). He also gave some good tips: go at certain days of the month when they are about to get new stock in, try to find the underperforming salesperson (they get away with worse deals, because the others feel sorry for them), give the impression you are planning to buy for much less than you really want, because they always try to get you over your budget. I managed to use those tricks when I bought my first car. Managed to get it at about 40% of the sticker price (used car). Haven't been as successful since though.
650REDHAIR 4y ago
Here’s my Stealership experience: I bought a car from Shift.com and it was an absolute nightmare. Originally I had decided on a Tesla that was in Oakland and put down my deposit. The rates Shift gave me were laughable so I contacted my credit union. Shift put every roadblock up trying to convince me to go with their financing and refinance at a later date. I declined and shortly after my car was sold to someone else. If I remember correctly it was within like 24hrs. They apologized profusely and told me that it shouldn’t have been possible for that to happen, but it did. I found another car in San Diego and put down another deposit. I was contacted about shipping and told if I did it by a certain time they would ship the next day. I did. It took something like a week to arrive in Oakland and sat for a few days before they could inspect and schedule a delivery. The delivery was a parking spot on a major street with a rushed employee. I mention that because I didn’t notice anything major with cars flying past me. I immediately drive to a parking lot and start examining the car. The trunk alignment seems off and there was no mention of damage so I take some photographs. Maybe it happened in shipping? I take it to a car wash because it was filthy. The trunk has a leak. It’s gross and musky in there. Shift blew me off so I emailed their CEO, legal, PR, etc until someone reached out to me. They paid for an inspection and I choose the Toyota dealership. Dealership was shocked that the damage wasn’t spotted during Shift’s initial inspection. There was a huge hit in the rear and the repair work was subpar at best. The body panel was leaking water and the advanced sensors weren’t working because the rear left one was broken. The initial quote was ~$10k. Shift was provided the report and after some time they scheduled a pickup to have their team preform their own inspection. Fast forward 8 weeks of very little communication I am informed they have fixed the car. I pressed for more info and they said they sent my car to a DETAILER. Not a mechanic. Not a body shop. Their detailer said the Toyota dealership was wrong. No leak. Sensors work. Somehow they decided that my front bumper was the problem and “painted it”, or at least that’s what Shift told me. Turns out they lied about that too. Original paint that they buffed, but left compound everywhere and fucked up my headlights and Toyota badge. When confronted with all of this, with photo evidence, Shift offered me $250. That’s it. $250 after keeping my car for nearly 10 weeks and then not fixing it. During the time they had it the avg MPG dropped to 21 mpg (typically 40) and managed to break a bunch of fasteners in the trunk. Now my car has a major accident on the carfax and I’ll be out at least $10k to fix it. Fuck Shift.com
kurupt213 4y ago
Subaru dealerships are supposed to stick to MSRP. They got a nasty gram from corporate at the beginning of the year during the big supply crunch
- gamblor956 4y ago
  Some Subaru dealers in LA have been adding mandatory add-ons to goose the price (which is otherwise at MSRP). Glendale, for example, has a mandatory $3000 "protection package" on higher-trim Outbacks.
  - kurupt213 4y ago
    I know they’ve been getting the higher trim options because they’ve been selling them faster than they can stock them here in PA. But a mandatory protection package is BS
roberthahn 4y ago
I purchased my current vehicle through an auto broker - for a fee, a description of the model/trim level, and the name of the dealership I want to pick the car up at (anywhere in Canada), they would negotiate on my behalf. Once they have a final price I sign off on it, and would be told the date to pick it up and make payment. It was a stress-free experience and I would definitely recommend you look into that if you really hate the idea of buying a car.
- jandrese 4y ago
  I feel like car buying can always be relatively low stress if you're willing to just pay the sticker price. It's the haggling that sucks. But that means paying more for the car than you really need to. Some dealerships offer no-haggle pricing around here. Their sticker price is typically slightly lower than comparable cars in other dealerships, but people spend on average more for every car purchased at them, I think it amounted to around a thousand dollars or so. But that study was also from over a decade ago.
WalterBright 4y ago
"And it's simply because there's high demand, low inventory, and they can do it." Supply & Demand. It's the law.
dillutedfixer 4y ago
Dealing with a dealership is all about psychology. They are playing a psychological mind game with you when they make you wait for so long while they're in the back doing "paperwork". They want you to get antsy so you make bad decisions. The trick to making this interaction go your way is to not play their game. If they seat you at a table and make you wait, just get up and walk away. Go start looking at another car. This will freak them the F out. My last interaction with a car dealer was hilarious. When I started playing mind games with them (walking away while they made me wait, fake-scrolling through ads on my phone, wondering out loud about the dealer across the street) they literally bent over backwards. They lowered the price on the car I wanted significantly. They offered me more than KBB trade-in value for my old car. They even offered to buy my wife and I lunch because we acted like we were going to go think it over while we ate. It's all mind games. Don't play theirs. The dealerships tactics are not very effective if you take control. They just get a lot of practice and they know that new-car-smell is addictive.
- ISL 4y ago
  The only winning move with the manipulative is not to play. Their games tend to waste your time and resources. Somewhere, somebody interested in delivering customer value will sell you a quality car at a price that is respectful to all parties. Buy that one. Do note that a respectful price preserves a margin for the dealer.
- michaelwww 4y ago
  This is good advice. I discovered by accident a really good technique. Just tell them you don't make any big decisions without sleeping on it. Then don't budge. Once they know they can't get you to sign that day, a lot of the tension goes out of the process. They have to switch gears and be respectful to entice you back tomorrow.
  - dillutedfixer 4y ago
    Anything that throws them off their very-well rehearsed script puts the power back in your hands!
JediPig 4y ago
Nah, dealers are hiding inventory. NPR didn't bother checking in the back.
thrill 4y ago
Dealerships make it unbelievably painful as a matter of course. I bought my most recent car coming off lease. Even though I arranged all this online and arrived with a certified check, it still took me 3 hours to get the paperwork done when I showed up there - talk about captured. It was ridiculous.
germinalphrase 4y ago
Craigslist. Facebook marketplace. Where else do people look for used car listings?
pkrotich 4y ago
I couldn’t agree more with the author. It’s my exact experience. I’m in the market to get a car for my 16 year old daughter. Found a car she wanted online, made an appointment (after they confirmed the inventory with the dealership) - we drove 2 hours only to be told the car we wanted just got moved to sister dealership a few miles away… asked them if we could go see or buy it only to be told it sold (after a minute of “checking”) and by the way all cars are marked $10k above MSRP in the name of market adjustment! I guess technically it’s not false advertising since the advertised car we wanted “sold”. What infuriated me is not even time wasted - with confirmation I started financing process!! Now I have an inquiry on my credit report for nothing. It’s such an outdated sales model based on trickery and I hope dealerships go by way of malls in my lifetime!
- matttb 4y ago
  > I guess technically it’s not false advertising since the advertised car we wanted “sold”. I worked at a car dealership and they absolutely lied about this stuff. They would say that the law lets them do it as long as it was sold within 24 hours, but they also kept advertising cars that had been sold weeks ago. Every time someone came in and asked they'd give the "Sorry it was sold within the past 24 hours" lie.
As_You_Wish 4y ago
I won't speak to this Covid period, as it is an exception. Not sure if it will go on for a long time or not, but right now I look at it as an exception. But, first thing I did a long, long time ago was read all I could about dealerships, dealarship tactics, dearler salesperson tactics, info on how to lower the price, and everything I could get my hands on. This was before the internet and I'm positive there's a ton of stuff on this on youtube and elsewhere. Homes and vehicles are the biggest ticket items that people purchase. Not to learn everything you can about buying a car is idiotic, with all the resources available out there. I've known the trick about "trade ins" for a long time, this has always been known. So you don't even talk about trading in your car. You sell it privately. You will never get the same value from a dealer, it's impossible, why you even trying to do the trade in? Never fall in love with a car and let them know, always seem like you don't care. Go to multiple dealers. Never do the whole "let me take your drivers license and credit card" trick so that they can keep you there waiting for the financial office to "finish processing" or whatever bullshit they spout. Then they have a second salesperson take a crack at you if you're not buying. Anyways, read up. Watch up. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+get+best+deal+at+car+dealership https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+get+best... https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=car+sales+tricks https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=car+sales+trick...

I know Carvana has issues but this is why I love using it. I have bought and sold without all the slime of entering a dealership

kube-system 4y ago
I don't personally understand the appeal. While some dealerships are certainly sketchy, I've found high-volume traditional dealerships to be pretty straightforward. They price them to sell, you pay the price that's posted on the sticker/website.
- oangemangut 4y ago
  for me it's the archaic 'sales practices' they go through. The bait and switching in advertising, the us vs them dynamic they try to create with the sale managers, finalizing a price with sales and then having finance try to wring more out of you, or saying the price isn't possible unless x y z. I'll never go through that again.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    I've never had an issue with an a dealer honoring an ad. I always print it out and bring it with me. It's pretty illegal if they don't. Financing is financing. It's not the car. If you show up without knowing how you're going to pay for the car, well... you showed up without knowing how you're going to pay for the car. Yeah, they'll ask about extended warranties and such, but it's just a matter of saying "no" a couple of times while signing paperwork.
lastofthemojito 4y ago
I know some people have had good experiences with Carvana (especially when they already know what they want, and said car that is configured just-so is halfway across the country) - but I hate the idea of online shopping for the test-drive phase of car shopping. Seeing a panoramic view of the car's interior isn't enough, I need to feel it. "Oh, don't worry, Carvana has a 7-day money back guarantee" - yeah, I don't want to have to unwind a major transaction just to test-drive a car. Especially if I'm trading in a car as part of the transaction - from what I've read if you trade in a car to Carvana and then decide to return the car you've purchased, they don't bring your old car back. I wish there was a service where you could give them say a hundred bucks and they'd deliver maybe your top 5 cars to your house to poke around and test drive. The Zappos experience (they encourage people to order multiple sizes to try on and make the returns easy) but for cars instead of shoes.
- culturestate 4y ago
  > I wish there was a service where you could give them say a hundred bucks and they'd deliver maybe your top 5 cars to your house to poke around and test drive. Trying to imagine the logistics of getting this done - profitably - within a Carvana-like model for anything close to $100 just broke my brain.
  - lastofthemojito 4y ago
    I live fairly close to the cluster of car dealerships in my area so maybe my perception is skewed, but it doesn't seem crazy to me that 2 sales guys from the Honda dealer would drive 5 minutes to my house to drop off an Accord (and then go back in 1 car), 2 sales guys from the Toyota dealer would drive 5 minutes to my house to drop off a Camry, etc... Seems like they're constantly making little trips to pick up cars from satellite lots, drop off cars for maintenance, fuel up cars, etc. This might only work for dealerships within a certain distance of course. But right, the part about doing it profitably would probably require a dealership that gets a successful sales lead to pay a fee to such a service.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Hertz has (or used to have) a "rent to own" deal with cars. You go to their lot of used cars, you poke and prod them, then you rent one you think you'll like for a week for a couple bills. If you decide to keep it, the rental cost is put against the purchase and you keep the car, if you don't like it you return and try again.
simonebrunozzi 4y ago
Which issues have you experienced, or know about?
- jeffwask 4y ago
  https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/767332-clastic/5659699-carvana-ponzi-collapsing https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/767332-clastic/5659699-ca...
- Kon-Peki 4y ago
  Here's one(two?) https://www.autoblog.com/2022/07/20/carvana-illinois-license-suspended/ https://www.autoblog.com/2022/07/20/carvana-illinois-license... PS - they've been reinstated again. Maybe.
creaghpatr 4y ago
I had a wild experience on Carvana. Bought the car (used, with 14k miles), they were going to ship it to my local Carvana pickup and the day before I get a message to effect of, "Hey we just tried to start your car and it's not starting so we don't recommend you buy this car" . All fees refunded, I was confused but grateful, no one followed up to try and get me to buy another car (other than garden variety email list marketing). Ended up buying a friend of a friends old car for way less two weeks later.
- qzw 4y ago
  They may have sold your car for more money to another buyer locally.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    This is exactly what happened. Or some employee decided they wanted it themselves. If you still had the VIN you could probably search what happened, heh.
tehwebguy 4y ago
Wish they would stop clogging all the local Craigslist boards but at least they correctly mark them as "by dealer," making them easy to filter out

chrisseaton 4y ago

Why engage in a back-and-forth with these people? Configure the car you want on the manufacturer website, note the list price, then send the configuration you want to a few dealers in your area and ask them to quote for delivering you that car. Accept the best quote. If they want to debate you about it, ask them to either quote you or forget it. There are even apps which enforce this - they get to quote you but can't communicate otherwise.

awad 4y ago
Interesting - do you have the names of any of those apps?
- qzw 4y ago
  TrueCar used to be a pretty good one, and was the service behind Sam’s Club and USAA’s auto buying programs. But it’s pretty much no longer worth the bother now. Don’t know of anything newer that’s better. Keep in mind that no app can work miracles in a crazy market. They all ultimately depend on dealers competing with each other to deliver any value, but dealers just haven’t needed to compete in the last couple of years.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  In the UK there is Carwow. You may not like the prices you get these days, but it's a market, and at least it's a take-it-or-leave-it price.
qzw 4y ago
That’s how it used to work (and still does for some less in demand/in short supply models), but if you’re after something that’s even moderately popular (most SUVs and EVs), you’ll hardly see any replies nowadays. That was the case when trying to get my wife a new crossover recently. We ended up placing an order in person with a dealer that “only” charged MSRP without a bunch of crazy add-ons, albeit with an additional dealer fee (pure profit) of $800. But when the car showed up 3 months later it was missing power seats due to a supply shortage. We walked from the deal and are now shopping again. Fun times.
4y ago

Cupertino95014 4y ago

Who goes to a dealership to buy a car anymore? In 1991 I bought my Miata online (I think. Maybe it was over the phone), and they delivered it to a dealer near me, where I just picked it up. Alternatives to dealers have been around forever.

encryptluks2 4y ago
People that can't wait 6+ months for a new car.
guywithahat 4y ago
Well you just bought from a dealership, and what's more is that dealership was under no real obligation to sell to you. They could have accepted the car from Mazda and sold it to someone else. The issue this article really looks into is that we invited government into auto sales for some reason who required dealerships (among other things) be mandatory and independent, so when Ford released the Bronco or Maverick and they turned out to be popular, Ford might say "this Maverick is worth 25k" and then the dealership would mark it up to 40k and there was nothing the buyer could do about it, even if you ordered from Ford. Dealerships would accept your vehicle, say you need to pay an additional 10k, and if you don't they won't let you leave with the car
- Cupertino95014 4y ago
  Yeah, but that didn't happen. Those were normal times. These are not. Do you have some evidence that it does, nowadays? I've heard of it happening with an electric car, but those are in such insane demand that normal rules don't apply.
- Cupertino95014 4y ago
  That might be, but you don't have to have the most popular car that year, or do you? The first year, that was happening with the Miata. The second year, things got back to normal and I paid sticker price.
sidewndr46 4y ago
Was this before or after Al Gore invented the internet?

jeffbee 4y ago

Why do people get all worked up over a difference ± a few hundred dollars on a very expensive purchase? When I want to buy a car, which I admit rarely happens, I look at the advertised price and if I'm willing to pay that price then I call the dealer and if I'm not, I don't. If the paperwork shows up with a different number on it then I tell them to leave, and it's their time, not mine, that was wasted. I just really don't get the whole haggling thing. If you want a lower price, wait until one is being advertised, or substitute a different model, or get a bicycle.

matwood 4y ago
I agree. It's why Carmax did well even pre-internet delivery companies. Were they the cheapest? No, but the prices were fine, you could shop online, and no one did any hard sales job.
- bitsnbytes 4y ago
  I hate the dealership experience and games they play and have always wanted to buy from carmax. However , I have yet purchased a car from carmax, because they have been typically over $3.5K+ overpriced , for the same year ,model, and equivalent condition that I can get it at the scummy dealers. Typical car shopping experience. Now this has to be modified a little depending if its a buyers or sellers market. However for the most part 1. Determine the car ,model,year, and condition of the car I want. 2. Browse carmax and set that as my highest price. 3. Email and go to local dealers and offer $3.5K- below carmax asking price than add tax and title to submit your offer as and out the door price. 4. Some don't responded but some do . 5. Go to dealerships ones that said they can do it at near the end of the month. 6. Then expect for them to do the bait and switch and send you to the backend manager who plays online games on his laptop for about an hour pretending to do something when they are really just trying to break you down. So when the manager comes into play I typically say great just give me a call or I come back after a couple of hours. so I don't wait there for no reason. 7. Manager plays the if he sold me the car for what I asked then they would be out of business. Then I say why did you agree to it and either I stay firm on my original offer or go up 500 bucks. they typically still don't approve at this stage which is expected and fine so I walk knowing they already have my contact information. 8. Play the wait game . Typically 1 or 2 weeks later I get a call back. They Agree for my original counter offer. 9. I go back in to sign the paperwork 10. The carsalesman is all giddy and sends me back to the manager and financier to close on the deal. 11. I get back and I see additional charges such as dealer fees and other bs which I say thank you but no thank you and the offer I submitted was out the door price. Sometimes I walk out again or they remove the charges . fun stuff but like I said playing the stupid game has saved me $3.5K most times. The key is willing and having the time to play the stupid game with them, willing to walk, and not have an immediate need for a car. There have been also times where I have been less willing to haggle on the price but even then I can typically get the car 1.5K below car max with little effort. When I buy new its a little trickier but I never pay anywhere near the msrp.

RunSet 4y ago

> To be fair to dealerships, they do provide important services. They offer a distribution and service network, which is vital to both manufacturers and car buyers. Until they don't. Throwback to that time "the world's largest Chevrolet dealer"[0] went under like Jacques Cousteau[1]. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20070202025849/http://www.billheard.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20070202025849/http://www.billhe... [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20170901203212/http://www.tbo.com/business/business/2008/sep/25/bill-heard-chevrolet-customers-freaking-out-ar-119159/ https://web.archive.org/web/20170901203212/http://www.tbo.co...

encryptluks2 4y ago

I find it strange that dealerships can be so scammy, and the manufacturer acts like it has no impact on how people view their brand.

kube-system 4y ago
Manufacturers know it has an impact on their brand, but they're legally compelled to put up with it.
dymk 4y ago
> At least some automakers know this. Earlier this year, Hyundai Motor Company sent a letter to its dealerships urging them to end deceptive practices, such as advertising a low price online and then charging a much higher price when customers go into the store. The company complained that sky-high markups were "damaging our brands' long-term ability to capture new customers and retain loyal ones."
kurupt213 4y ago
Subaru cares. They’ll take away the cars
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  From the vehicle owner or dealership? I had the worst experience with Toyota. I don't think I'd ever buy a Toyota again. The manufacturer was like... We only make the cars and don't care what happens at the dealership. Also what is up with dealerships and mandatory arbitration agreements? So you can't buy a car now without signing an arbitration agreement?
  - kurupt213 4y ago
    They threatened to cancel contracts with dealerships who don’t provide the expected Subaru experience. Subaru’s brand value is so high that Fuji heavy industries renamed themselves Subaru after their car mfg division

akshayB 4y ago

I recently went through a car buying process and it was extremely brutal. You signup paying for Doc fee ($600), even gas, other hidden fees, and outrageous charges. Another issue I noticed was you are forced into buying overprized accessories like first aid kit ($150), car mats and even cargo nets. After all this we ended up buying from craigslist as to my surprise some of these charges cannot be even waved, you don't stand a chance as people are willing to pay for these things and dealership just move to next customer.

kylehotchkiss 4y ago
Is the doc fees just the DMV paperwork? That's always a fee when you buy.
- akshayB 4y ago
  DMV, Loan, trade-in it all depends

BeetleB 4y ago

Every one I know hates car dealerships. Yet 90% of them refuse to buy a used car from a private party. While it's true they have a lobby and have twisted the arms of legislators, it's also true that people prefer buying from them. And when they don't buy from them, they buy from CarMax which, for used cars, is even worse than buying from a dealer (pre-pandemic). What keeps people from buying from private parties? Unwillingness to plan and save money (i.e. refuse to buy car without financing). Even for under $10K Being scared of getting a lemon because they lack knowledge about cars. I too lack that knowledge, which is why I get a trusted mechanic to check out any car I buy. Hasn't failed me in 20 years. Used car warranties are useless - they don't last long. And the last time I went car shopping, every used car from the dealer that seemed like a good price had serious problems when I took it to the mechanic. Never get a used car from a dealer if they don't let you take it to a mechanic. Quicker process: It may take a while finding a good used car via Private Party. OTOH, there are plenty of dealers one can walk into. However, once you find a car you like, the process is much smoother with private party. You either agree on a price or you don't. No hidden fees. You know exactly what you're getting. Edit: I just want to be clear: I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy private party. If you're happy with avoiding the "hassle", that's fine. My point is that for all the complaints about dealers, the reality is people prefer them.

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qzw 4y ago
People don’t have trusted mechanics or know how to get one. For the majority of people, the dealer where they got the car is their “(somewhat) trusted mechanic”. That’s why they go to dealers or CarMax and pay a huge premium, just for the psychological comfort. And for certain premium brands, a certified preowned car that comes with an extended warranty might not even be that bad of a deal, at least during normal market conditions.
- 4y ago

zachshefska 4y ago

Disclaimer; I run a popular youtube channel educating consumers on car buying. Greg did a good job documenting the challenges of buying a car in today's market. Fortunately, we are starting to see a softening in consumer demand which has led to used car prices to begin to drop in some areas and for certain types of vehicles. We expect that as automakers increase production we'll go away from markups. The timeline for that is tricky since Asian brands (Toyota and Honda especially) are struggling MUCH more than American automakers. MSRPs are rising fast too, so while dealer markups may disappear as demand weakens and supply increases, don't be surprised if you see MSRPs that are 5-10% higher year over year. Wait times right now for hybrid vehicles are over a year. The push to PHEV and BEV will continue to be delayed due to ridiculous prices. The average transaction price for a new EV last month was north of $66,000. Not affordable. Great insights in Greg's article. I wish we could have helped him before he embarked on the journey.

germinalphrase 4y ago
Are Japanese manufactures supply constrained due to chip shortages in particular?
ghaff 4y ago
The current supply shortages made the process less bothersome for me in some ways because I didn't really expect to have much luck haggling. Wasn't perfect. "In transit" meant it wasn't built yet and I was in a bit of a hurry. (Had car but car had problems.) Doc fee was high. A couple of 50% BS sets of "factory installed options." (Though got price tacked onto my pretty generous trade-in.) Some annoying attempts to upsell but "no" worked fine. Didn't need financing. But overall, it was a couple of visits and a few hours and I got the vehicle (Honda) in six weeks.
sremani 4y ago
Hey Zack, I was about to plug your channel. Good work bro!

everdrive 4y ago

I've been buying cars second-hand from private parties for my last three cars. It's been a great experience. Everyone's been honest so far, and I've never had unreasonable problems with any of the cars. I'm not sure I'd ever go to a dealership again. They make things so painful, and wring as much money and stress out of you as possible. There seems to be zero benefit for the consumer.

tehwebguy 4y ago
This is the way! When buying used from a private seller you really can find almost anything you want at a substantial discount if your timeline is not urgent.
toomanyrichies 4y ago
I anticipate moving to Los Angeles within the next 12 months and am absolutely dreading the inevitability of needing to buy a car. I haven't needed a car since 2007 since I've lived in a series of major cities with excellent train/bus/subway systems. Every single day, I've said a silent prayer of thanks that I haven't had to pay for gas or insurance / sit in traffic / deal with road rage (mine or that of others) / worry about someone keying my car or stealing my catalytic converter. Reading the comments here about peoples' experiences at dealerships, I kept thinking "Do I really need to move to LA? Is there any other way I can accomplish my goals?" I'm glad to see you've had success dealing with private parties. This is absolutely the way I will go when it comes time for me to bite the bullet and buy a car.
- mxuribe 4y ago
  Well, LA has some nice weather...Have you considered maybe looking into a three-wheeler like a Can Am Spyder [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can-Am_motorcycles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can-Am_motorcycles]? (As someone who is a big fan of motorcycles, I used to recommend folks to consider the wonderful life of 2 wheels, but i understand not everyone would be into it...plus LA traffic might make conventional motorcycles risky for new riders.) Of course, I'm assuming that an alternative like that a three-wheeler might be cheaper, or more obtainable (either new or used). Then again, if your job is not far from where you will live, could a bicycle fit the need - either electric or conventional?

fleddr 4y ago

This is why when you buy a car, you go in with a person that knows cars. Or consult them whilst you browse online. Be frugal with options/extras. Don't show excitement. If you're poor at negotiating, try the brute force approach of an exit. Doesn't matter what the offer is, just laugh, mumble something, and exit the venue. They'll normally stop you. Don't bite at the second offer either, they were already taking that into account. Hassle some more. This assumes a market where the seller has a very strong incentive to sell, so not when there's lots of buyers. Have bullet proof facts ready, like prices for the same car elsewhere. In short, come prepared.

twblalock 4y ago

I hope the example of Tesla's successful direct sales model, and Ford and GM's current frustration with dealers marking up popular EVs, will result in the large auto companies lobbying to remove the protectionist laws that force the dealership model on consumers.

ISL 4y ago
Unlikely -- Saturn had consumer-friendly no-hassle pricing (and vehicles) in the 1990s. That model hasn't returned. (Also, the superlative owners' manual for my wife's Saturn was a user-friendly document designed with the end-user in mind. Never seen anything like it before or since.)

cycomanic 4y ago

During my studies when I was overseas we had a seminar on how to buy a car in NZ. The guy was absolutely awesome, he told us about a lot of the tricks employed by dealers from subtle things like mirrors where you are supposed to park the car (you see yourself in the mirror) to things like working you with two people (it's much harder to resist 2 people arguing with you, also why you should never go by yourself). He also gave some good tips: go at certain days of the month when they are about to get new stock in, try to find the underperforming salesperson (they get away with worse deals, because the others feel sorry for them), give the impression you are planning to buy for much less than you really want, because they always try to get you over your budget. I managed to use those tricks when I bought my first car. Managed to get it at about 40% of the sticker price (used car). Haven't been as successful since though.

650REDHAIR 4y ago

Here’s my Stealership experience: I bought a car from Shift.com and it was an absolute nightmare. Originally I had decided on a Tesla that was in Oakland and put down my deposit. The rates Shift gave me were laughable so I contacted my credit union. Shift put every roadblock up trying to convince me to go with their financing and refinance at a later date. I declined and shortly after my car was sold to someone else. If I remember correctly it was within like 24hrs. They apologized profusely and told me that it shouldn’t have been possible for that to happen, but it did. I found another car in San Diego and put down another deposit. I was contacted about shipping and told if I did it by a certain time they would ship the next day. I did. It took something like a week to arrive in Oakland and sat for a few days before they could inspect and schedule a delivery. The delivery was a parking spot on a major street with a rushed employee. I mention that because I didn’t notice anything major with cars flying past me. I immediately drive to a parking lot and start examining the car. The trunk alignment seems off and there was no mention of damage so I take some photographs. Maybe it happened in shipping? I take it to a car wash because it was filthy. The trunk has a leak. It’s gross and musky in there. Shift blew me off so I emailed their CEO, legal, PR, etc until someone reached out to me. They paid for an inspection and I choose the Toyota dealership. Dealership was shocked that the damage wasn’t spotted during Shift’s initial inspection. There was a huge hit in the rear and the repair work was subpar at best. The body panel was leaking water and the advanced sensors weren’t working because the rear left one was broken. The initial quote was ~$10k. Shift was provided the report and after some time they scheduled a pickup to have their team preform their own inspection. Fast forward 8 weeks of very little communication I am informed they have fixed the car. I pressed for more info and they said they sent my car to a DETAILER. Not a mechanic. Not a body shop. Their detailer said the Toyota dealership was wrong. No leak. Sensors work. Somehow they decided that my front bumper was the problem and “painted it”, or at least that’s what Shift told me. Turns out they lied about that too. Original paint that they buffed, but left compound everywhere and fucked up my headlights and Toyota badge. When confronted with all of this, with photo evidence, Shift offered me $250. That’s it. $250 after keeping my car for nearly 10 weeks and then not fixing it. During the time they had it the avg MPG dropped to 21 mpg (typically 40) and managed to break a bunch of fasteners in the trunk. Now my car has a major accident on the carfax and I’ll be out at least $10k to fix it. Fuck Shift.com

kurupt213 4y ago

Subaru dealerships are supposed to stick to MSRP. They got a nasty gram from corporate at the beginning of the year during the big supply crunch

gamblor956 4y ago
Some Subaru dealers in LA have been adding mandatory add-ons to goose the price (which is otherwise at MSRP). Glendale, for example, has a mandatory $3000 "protection package" on higher-trim Outbacks.
- kurupt213 4y ago
  I know they’ve been getting the higher trim options because they’ve been selling them faster than they can stock them here in PA. But a mandatory protection package is BS

roberthahn 4y ago

I purchased my current vehicle through an auto broker - for a fee, a description of the model/trim level, and the name of the dealership I want to pick the car up at (anywhere in Canada), they would negotiate on my behalf. Once they have a final price I sign off on it, and would be told the date to pick it up and make payment. It was a stress-free experience and I would definitely recommend you look into that if you really hate the idea of buying a car.

jandrese 4y ago
I feel like car buying can always be relatively low stress if you're willing to just pay the sticker price. It's the haggling that sucks. But that means paying more for the car than you really need to. Some dealerships offer no-haggle pricing around here. Their sticker price is typically slightly lower than comparable cars in other dealerships, but people spend on average more for every car purchased at them, I think it amounted to around a thousand dollars or so. But that study was also from over a decade ago.

WalterBright 4y ago

"And it's simply because there's high demand, low inventory, and they can do it." Supply & Demand. It's the law.

dillutedfixer 4y ago

Dealing with a dealership is all about psychology. They are playing a psychological mind game with you when they make you wait for so long while they're in the back doing "paperwork". They want you to get antsy so you make bad decisions. The trick to making this interaction go your way is to not play their game. If they seat you at a table and make you wait, just get up and walk away. Go start looking at another car. This will freak them the F out. My last interaction with a car dealer was hilarious. When I started playing mind games with them (walking away while they made me wait, fake-scrolling through ads on my phone, wondering out loud about the dealer across the street) they literally bent over backwards. They lowered the price on the car I wanted significantly. They offered me more than KBB trade-in value for my old car. They even offered to buy my wife and I lunch because we acted like we were going to go think it over while we ate. It's all mind games. Don't play theirs. The dealerships tactics are not very effective if you take control. They just get a lot of practice and they know that new-car-smell is addictive.

ISL 4y ago
The only winning move with the manipulative is not to play. Their games tend to waste your time and resources. Somewhere, somebody interested in delivering customer value will sell you a quality car at a price that is respectful to all parties. Buy that one. Do note that a respectful price preserves a margin for the dealer.
michaelwww 4y ago
This is good advice. I discovered by accident a really good technique. Just tell them you don't make any big decisions without sleeping on it. Then don't budge. Once they know they can't get you to sign that day, a lot of the tension goes out of the process. They have to switch gears and be respectful to entice you back tomorrow.
- dillutedfixer 4y ago
  Anything that throws them off their very-well rehearsed script puts the power back in your hands!

JediPig 4y ago

Nah, dealers are hiding inventory. NPR didn't bother checking in the back.

thrill 4y ago

Dealerships make it unbelievably painful as a matter of course. I bought my most recent car coming off lease. Even though I arranged all this online and arrived with a certified check, it still took me 3 hours to get the paperwork done when I showed up there - talk about captured. It was ridiculous.

germinalphrase 4y ago

Craigslist. Facebook marketplace. Where else do people look for used car listings?

pkrotich 4y ago

I couldn’t agree more with the author. It’s my exact experience. I’m in the market to get a car for my 16 year old daughter. Found a car she wanted online, made an appointment (after they confirmed the inventory with the dealership) - we drove 2 hours only to be told the car we wanted just got moved to sister dealership a few miles away… asked them if we could go see or buy it only to be told it sold (after a minute of “checking”) and by the way all cars are marked $10k above MSRP in the name of market adjustment! I guess technically it’s not false advertising since the advertised car we wanted “sold”. What infuriated me is not even time wasted - with confirmation I started financing process!! Now I have an inquiry on my credit report for nothing. It’s such an outdated sales model based on trickery and I hope dealerships go by way of malls in my lifetime!

matttb 4y ago
> I guess technically it’s not false advertising since the advertised car we wanted “sold”. I worked at a car dealership and they absolutely lied about this stuff. They would say that the law lets them do it as long as it was sold within 24 hours, but they also kept advertising cars that had been sold weeks ago. Every time someone came in and asked they'd give the "Sorry it was sold within the past 24 hours" lie.

As_You_Wish 4y ago

I won't speak to this Covid period, as it is an exception. Not sure if it will go on for a long time or not, but right now I look at it as an exception. But, first thing I did a long, long time ago was read all I could about dealerships, dealarship tactics, dearler salesperson tactics, info on how to lower the price, and everything I could get my hands on. This was before the internet and I'm positive there's a ton of stuff on this on youtube and elsewhere. Homes and vehicles are the biggest ticket items that people purchase. Not to learn everything you can about buying a car is idiotic, with all the resources available out there. I've known the trick about "trade ins" for a long time, this has always been known. So you don't even talk about trading in your car. You sell it privately. You will never get the same value from a dealer, it's impossible, why you even trying to do the trade in? Never fall in love with a car and let them know, always seem like you don't care. Go to multiple dealers. Never do the whole "let me take your drivers license and credit card" trick so that they can keep you there waiting for the financial office to "finish processing" or whatever bullshit they spout. Then they have a second salesperson take a crack at you if you're not buying. Anyways, read up. Watch up. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+get+best+deal+at+car+dealership https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how+to+get+best... https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=car+sales+tricks https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=car+sales+trick...