15 ms·

Ghana bans a Delta Boeing 767 (yes, just one)

340 points by mcenedella 4y ago

djohnston 4y ago
I love it! Pretty funny story as no one was hurt and there was no material damage. This is also a great example of why your code will inevitably end up with a bunch of if-else blocks if it is popular and used for a long enough time XD. I would like to see how this is coded into Delta's flight logistics software.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Also if the plane gets retired, does that clause stay there?
  - TremendousJudge 4y ago
    If it's anything like other codebases I've seen, yes.
  - addaon 4y ago
    Yes. Registration numbers can be reused. Even if Delta retires the plane, they are forbidden from flying a future plane with that registration to Accra (barring a presumedly easy appeal), so the code must stay.
    - manquer 4y ago
      That seems the opposite of the intended effect. If the buyer is able to buy that plane change the registration (lease it back to Delta even ! )and fly the same plane to Accura. Changing Tail numbers are fairly rare in the industry, given the overhead required, the typical reason it happens when for Tax reasons registration is moved to another country ( numbers have a country prefix), but it is possible .
      - gpm 4y ago
        Authorities aren't computers blindly evaluating code. If Delta tried to sell and then lease the plane I'm pretty sure that the authorities would not just catch on, but find a way to substantially penalize Delta to discourage anyone from trying such a stunt again. Meanwhile it's substantially less work from Delta's point of view to not do that (even before considering the regulators response), so it's not something that's really worth worrying about. It's reasonable for regulators to assume that people aren't going to intentionally fuck with them, when the incentive to fuck with them is practically non-existent...
        manquer 4y ago
        Sure regulators and authorities are not evaluating regulations like that, but the entity being subject to that regulation frequently challenge such interpretations of regulations and win in court all the time. While the spirit of a law or regulation is important in evaluating a case[1], even the smallest of technicalities are fought over in lawsuits and can determine the outcome of a dispute like this. There are many examples like the famous case that was determined by the Oxford comma to all the cases that decide what EPA, OSHA, CDC, or SEC can and cannot do decided by technicality or literal interpretation So it would be kind of important to have that kind of loophole removed. [1] Texualist proponents and federalist society judges have a strong opinion (when it comes to constitution) that add to my point on that but that is different can of worms I don't want to use as basis of an argument
  - cjrp 4y ago
    Would have been better to ban the plane’s manufacturer serial number.
  - themadturk 4y ago
    Presumably the same registration number wouldn't be necessarily re-used for a 767, and the ban is on the 767 with that registration, not on a hypothetical 777 with the same registration.
- tpmx 4y ago
  > I would like to see how this is coded into Delta's flight logistics software. By cancelling the service to Accra, probably.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - BoorishBears 4y ago
    I don't know what level of misunderstanding it takes to think this. Misunderstanding the airline industry, or the country, or how airports operate, or what really.
    - jrockway 4y ago
      I think there's a certain contingent that reacts to any regulation with "fine, then I'll take my ball and go home". Country has safety requirements, they deny any service to that country as retribution. The real world has more shades of grey. Delta can probably put a note in their scheduling system to make sure the airliner in question doesn't go to that country. They also know how much money they lose if they take their ball and go home, and probably wouldn't even be flying the route if it was completely unprofitable. (There are probably partners that rely on the service, and maintaining a good relationship with business partners is important too in a less financially-obvious way.)
      - BoorishBears 4y ago
        I mean I'm Ghanaian and DL156 is the only non-stop flight from the US to Ghana, and only one of two to the entire region afaik (the other being EWR to LOS) Just going based on how long it's run, the prices myself and family have paid for tickets relative to destinations a similar distance away, observed usage of capacity on each flight, and the fact it has literally no competition, they wouldn't up and cancel it short of some sort of safety threat to their staff or business. Definitely not because a problem airliner gets noted.
    - diputsmonro 4y ago
- kzrdude 4y ago
  another if-else block? I'm thinking another database table of banned plane-route combinations, if they don't already have it.
  - diputsmonro 4y ago
    Ideally, sure, but the article makes it seems like a rare ocurrence. And if their plane maintenance is any indication, I'm not sure their application architecture would be following such best practices.
    - rsynnott 4y ago
      This specific thing is a rare occurrence, but “only certain special variant planes can land at this weird airport” (for instance, LCY requires a specific 318 variant) is more common; I’d assume their software can handle all sorts of weird rules.
    - inferiorhuman 4y ago
      And if their plane maintenance is any indication Delta runs one of the premier maintenance outfits (Delta TechOps) globally. About a quarter of their TechOps business is for outside airlines. So sure if that's any indication their application architecture is probably pretty decent (it's not). This was an ETOPS flight, yeah? Those come with higher standards for crew training, maintenance, and minimum equipment per the FAA. I wouldn't worry until/unless the FAA starts making noise about revoking Delta's ETOPS certification (which would hurt their ability to fly a bunch of routes and their ability to perform maintenance for e.g. Hawaiian).
  - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
    Seems reasonable that they have some sort of rules engine that tracks this type of thing. A country banning a particular aircraft might be rare but differing environmental and noise laws around the world probably means there are quite a few restrictions on which aircraft can go to which destinations beyond the major reasons like runway size and gate facilities.
- bowmessage 4y ago
  > no one was hurt Check out https://youtu.be/7PQTMx7TZ9A https://youtu.be/7PQTMx7TZ9A, quite a few folks went through some emotional trauma over this one, unfortunately.
  - serf 4y ago
    I get that it was traumatic, but I don't think we should begin comparing the trauma and distress of a bad plane ride for someone with a fear of flying to the trauma and distress of a plane crash. by 'hurt' the earlier parent was pretty obviously (at least for me) referring to the chance at an outright failure and crash resulting in injury or loss of life. not that a bad experience and the resulting psychological trauma doesn't constitute 'hurt'; but it's a kind of hurt that one stands a chance to recover from .
  - assttoasstmgr 4y ago
  - smabie 4y ago
    Emotional trauma because your plane has to turn around? Give me a break
vorpalhex 4y ago
I kind of agree with Ghana here. Gotta maintain your planes. It's sad that a foreign country has to be the one making Delta do routine pmc.
- bombcar 4y ago
  More importantly, this is an easy way for Ghana to say "get another damn plane on this route".
- iepathos 4y ago
  They aren't making them take care of the plane though. Delta is just routing the plane to go to European countries now instead. Delta dgaf
  - yardie 4y ago
    This plane is now flying LAX, JFK, Edinburgh, and Lisboa. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N195DN/history https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N195DN/history
    - tpmx 4y ago
      As it did before. During the past three months only 10 (or about 6%) of its 170 flights have involved Ghana, either as source or destination. It's mostly been flying in US/EU. Source: that URL, with an old free membership. Here's a news article from Ghana regarding the whole thing, including photos of the official letter to Delta from their aviation authority, etc: https://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Delta-Airline-number-N195DN-banned-from-flying-to-Ghana-1608143 https://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Delta-Air...
  - sjm-lbm 4y ago
    They are making them take care of the plane, at least to the limits of their authority. It's not like they have much say about what a US-based airline does outside of their borders.
  - BeMoreSpecific 4y ago
0110101001 4y ago
A YouTube discussion between passengers on each of the flights turned around and a professional pilot: https://youtu.be/7PQTMx7TZ9A https://youtu.be/7PQTMx7TZ9A
- deelowe 4y ago
  Great to see this follow up. I saw the original critique from 74 gear and didn't realize they did this.
- QuadrupleA 4y ago
  Thanks, saw that youtube kerfuffle a few days ago and wodered if this was related. Looks like it is.
cjrp 4y ago
> “With immediate effect, Delta Air Lines is being advised not to dispatch the B767-332 with registration number N195DN for flights to Accra.” That doesn’t sound like it’s banned to me; more like they’re just pressuring Delta to use a different aircraft.
- michaelsshaw 4y ago
  No, re-read it. "Advised" as in being told. Ghana has told Delta explicitly to not dispatch N195DN to Accra.
Happy4000 4y ago
Between 2010 and 2013, I used to fly to Ghana most summers. Delta would use old aircraft on this route. Inflight entertainment was the screen hanging in the middle of the aisle. Watching a movie on the flight was a challenge. You had to bring your own entertainment to pass the time. Eventually I stopped using that route and took KLM instead. KLM to Schiphol and to Accra. KLM was in a world of it's own. Similar planes irrespective of whether I was in the US or flying to Ghana. Personal inflight entertainment. The service was way better.
- inferiorhuman 4y ago
  Delta would use old aircraft on this route Delta uses old aircraft on most of their routes. That's been their MO for a while. Delta was the launch customer for the DC-9 in 1965 and retired the type in 2014. COVID accelerated the retirement of the derivatives (MD-80/90), but they're still flying the 717 (a.k.a. MD-95). The last time I flew SFO-JFK I was on a Delta 767-400 and yeah Delta hasn't updated the interiors on those. Compared to other airlines that typically run a premium (single aisle) product on that route the extra aisle and the 2-3-2 seating are pretty competitive unless you're jonesing for crappy seat back entertainment.
  - throckmortra 4y ago
    This is a strength of theirs. They have a very strong maintenance program called TechOps
  - quink 4y ago
    They have 127 Boeing 757s, a plane that stopped being made two decades ago with still no clear successor.
    - xattt 4y ago
      As does Icelandair.
    - YakBizzarro 4y ago
      I think Airbus is trying to position the A321-XLR as replacment of the 757
xvector 4y ago
It's a shame the executives running Delta aren't hit with crippling fines. The ability of individuals to hide behind the mask of a corporation is perhaps the worst thing about modern capitalism.
- dijonman2 4y ago
  Why hit Delta with crippling fines? Has there been loss of life? Or anything close to it? Sounds like the pilots returned to NYC out of caution. Modern aviation safety at work.
  - toss1 4y ago
    >>Has there been loss of life? Not YET >>Or anything close to it? Depends on what the problems were. Smart organizations don't track accidents and deaths (e.g., factories with the big "N Days Since a Time Lost Accident" sign out front), they track anythign resembling a close call, and I've even seen signs tracking that. this is no different than tracking storage or memory failures so that you can pull the unit BEFORE it fails, because an increase in rate of minor incidents PREDICTS the failure. In the case of civil aviation, when it gets to the point of loss of life or anything close to it, you are likely talking hundreds of lives. Smart people who are not sociopaths care about preventing that sort of failure. Evidently the execs at Delta do not, just as the execs at Boeing did not, and had to kill hundreds of people in two crashes to pull the 737-max off the flightlines. Yes, this was a smart move by Ghana, and yes we do need personal liability for setting up a system that devalues people's lives in pursuit of profit (and no, that does not mean that every remote possibility of harm could send someone to jail, but systemic negligence of safety should have real consequences not just corporate fines. At the very least, if corporations are supposed to be like people, we need the corporate death penalty - significant crimes and the corp goes to the chopping block, assets individually auctioned off).
    - notahacker 4y ago
      Do you honestly think Delta isn't tracking its aircraft performance? Perhaps in even more detail than a factory with a big sign! The reason the aircraft returned to base (at great expense to Delta) on multiple occasions is because they are extremely cautious.
tomatotomato37 4y ago
It should be note that even if all these malfunctions were minor and non-hazardous having a plane divert multiple multiple times would still cause an administrative nightmare
ramesh31 4y ago
Seems like a perfect storm of max length ETOPS flight combined with a seriously aged airframe, resulting in a vastly increased margin of safety needed to complete the flight. If you plot JFK -> ACC on Google Earth, you can see the flightpath perfectly threads the needle between Bermuda and the Azores, creating what is probably the longest overwater route with no diversions possible from the east coast. The 767's are really only profitable on these "long fat" routes anymore, and I suspect this will probably be the start of Delta retiring them for 787s or A350s.
pdpi 4y ago
Banning Delta altogether seems disproportionate. Banning all 767s would be silly. Telling Delta they can’t fly this one particular plane to Accra seems to me like a perfectly reasonable response to a run of incidents involving that plane within a short period of time. Honestly, the only thing that surprises me about this is that other aviation authorities haven’t followed suit.
- atdrummond 4y ago
  Ghana has a particularly sensitive outlook on these things. They threatened to ban BA from flying there for having the temerity to place Accra flights out of Gatwick rather than Heathrow. (https://viewfromthewing.com/ghana-threatens-to-effectively-ban-british-airways-because-they-dont-like-london-gatwick-airport/ https://viewfromthewing.com/ghana-threatens-to-effectively-b...) It is worth noting that the airframe in question has flown perfectly fine subsequent to the ban.
  - paganel 4y ago
    I stand with Ghana on this, the least the Brits could do is own up to their colonial past and not push former colonies aside as long as they’re not bringing in the money anymore (because I guess that’s the main reason behind that airport move).
    - drumhead 4y ago
      Heathrow and Gatwick are private, British Airways is private, so its got nothing to do with the Government. The decision by BA was probably made for economic reasons, the Heathrow slots could probably have been used for more profitable flights. If the demand was there another airline could have used their slots for flights to Ghana from Heathrow. Problem solved for people wanting to fly to Ghana from Heathrow. Sounds like a fit of pique from the Ghanaian government to me.
      - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
        it sounds like you're agreeing: the move was made by the brits because the former colony wasn't bringing in enough money anymore
rafaelturk 4y ago
Looks like Ghana aviation authorities are doing a great job!
lisper 4y ago
Heh, I flew Delta from SFO to ATL a few weeks ago and ended up diverting to ABQ. It's my first diversion in a commercial jet in nearly 50 years of flying. At the time I thought it was a fluke, but now it's looking like more of a pattern.
- optimalsolver 4y ago
  >ended up diverting to ABQ Bugs Bunny?
  - lisper 4y ago
    I knew I should have taken that left toin at Albukoikee!
bhargav 4y ago
Based on a bunch of comments and replies, it seems like many people might have missed this (or just going off the headline) they’ve banned a 767 of a specific registration number. Plenty of 767s flying there. As I write this a different Delta (DAL 156) has just departed JFK heading to Accara. So yeah, them banning that one plane is not some clever political ploy to have newer planes fly to their country lol…
erikig 4y ago
My wife and I flew the ACC to JFK flight in early Aug booked via Air France (I believe it was AF8702) and the flight was delayed by 2hrs due to an issue with the brakes that was discovered at the very last moment and that needed to be fixed while we were minutes from taxi and take off. This left us and our fellow passengers couped up on the runway for that whole period. I’ll check but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was this very plane.
- google234123 4y ago
  I also flew on a plane that had an issue. It was an airbus and with a completely different airline but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was this very plane.
  - oceliker 4y ago
    Booked via Air France does not mean flying on an Air France plane. In this case it's in fact the same Delta flight. I checked and the only flight I can find in early-ish August that used the plane mentioned in the article was on Aug 13 [0]. But it seems the flights out of ACC are very consistently delayed. [0] https://www.planemapper.com/flights/DL157 https://www.planemapper.com/flights/DL157
jeffrallen 4y ago
If you don't like sovrignity, don't leave your country. Ghana should do what it thinks it needs to to protect it's airspace and citizens on the ground.
kensai 4y ago
They did exactly fine. African countries are no “lesser countries” when security is concerned. I hope we see it more often, if airlines don’t keep up the standards.
wiedehopf 4y ago
Aircraft is in the air right now: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a17b16&lat=54.936&lon=-36.880&zoom=4.0&showTrace=2022-08-27&leg=2&trackLabels https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a17b16&lat=54.936&lon=-... Back to back turnback: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a17b16&lat=42.330&lon=-70.893&zoom=7.0&showTrace=2022-07-25&trackLabels https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a17b16&lat=42.330&lon=-... https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a17b16&lat=42.330&lon=-70.893&zoom=7.0&showTrace=2022-07-26&trackLabels https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a17b16&lat=42.330&lon=-...
ahi 4y ago
This isn't about safety and doesn't need to be for it to be perfectly reasonable reaction. There are 2 daily flights from the US to Ghana; this one from JFK and a United flight from Dulles. In comparison, there are more than 15 flights daily from just JFK to Heathrow. Repeatedly losing a couple hundred passengers, mostly business travelers and wealthier Ghanaian nationals is a BFD. Unreliable service inconveniences their more connected citizens, and greatly increases the costs of doing business in Ghana. Ghana needs this to be a reliable connection, and this is them telling Delta to get their act together.

340 points by mcenedella 4y ago

I love it! Pretty funny story as no one was hurt and there was no material damage. This is also a great example of why your code will inevitably end up with a bunch of if-else blocks if it is popular and used for a long enough time XD. I would like to see how this is coded into Delta's flight logistics software.

Ekaros 4y ago
Also if the plane gets retired, does that clause stay there?
- TremendousJudge 4y ago
  If it's anything like other codebases I've seen, yes.
- addaon 4y ago
  Yes. Registration numbers can be reused. Even if Delta retires the plane, they are forbidden from flying a future plane with that registration to Accra (barring a presumedly easy appeal), so the code must stay.
  - manquer 4y ago
    That seems the opposite of the intended effect. If the buyer is able to buy that plane change the registration (lease it back to Delta even ! )and fly the same plane to Accura. Changing Tail numbers are fairly rare in the industry, given the overhead required, the typical reason it happens when for Tax reasons registration is moved to another country ( numbers have a country prefix), but it is possible .
    - gpm 4y ago
      Authorities aren't computers blindly evaluating code. If Delta tried to sell and then lease the plane I'm pretty sure that the authorities would not just catch on, but find a way to substantially penalize Delta to discourage anyone from trying such a stunt again. Meanwhile it's substantially less work from Delta's point of view to not do that (even before considering the regulators response), so it's not something that's really worth worrying about. It's reasonable for regulators to assume that people aren't going to intentionally fuck with them, when the incentive to fuck with them is practically non-existent...
      - manquer 4y ago
        Sure regulators and authorities are not evaluating regulations like that, but the entity being subject to that regulation frequently challenge such interpretations of regulations and win in court all the time. While the spirit of a law or regulation is important in evaluating a case[1], even the smallest of technicalities are fought over in lawsuits and can determine the outcome of a dispute like this. There are many examples like the famous case that was determined by the Oxford comma to all the cases that decide what EPA, OSHA, CDC, or SEC can and cannot do decided by technicality or literal interpretation So it would be kind of important to have that kind of loophole removed. [1] Texualist proponents and federalist society judges have a strong opinion (when it comes to constitution) that add to my point on that but that is different can of worms I don't want to use as basis of an argument
- cjrp 4y ago
  Would have been better to ban the plane’s manufacturer serial number.
- themadturk 4y ago
  Presumably the same registration number wouldn't be necessarily re-used for a 767, and the ban is on the 767 with that registration, not on a hypothetical 777 with the same registration.
tpmx 4y ago
> I would like to see how this is coded into Delta's flight logistics software. By cancelling the service to Accra, probably.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- BoorishBears 4y ago
  I don't know what level of misunderstanding it takes to think this. Misunderstanding the airline industry, or the country, or how airports operate, or what really.
  - jrockway 4y ago
    I think there's a certain contingent that reacts to any regulation with "fine, then I'll take my ball and go home". Country has safety requirements, they deny any service to that country as retribution. The real world has more shades of grey. Delta can probably put a note in their scheduling system to make sure the airliner in question doesn't go to that country. They also know how much money they lose if they take their ball and go home, and probably wouldn't even be flying the route if it was completely unprofitable. (There are probably partners that rely on the service, and maintaining a good relationship with business partners is important too in a less financially-obvious way.)
    - BoorishBears 4y ago
      I mean I'm Ghanaian and DL156 is the only non-stop flight from the US to Ghana, and only one of two to the entire region afaik (the other being EWR to LOS) Just going based on how long it's run, the prices myself and family have paid for tickets relative to destinations a similar distance away, observed usage of capacity on each flight, and the fact it has literally no competition, they wouldn't up and cancel it short of some sort of safety threat to their staff or business. Definitely not because a problem airliner gets noted.
  - diputsmonro 4y ago
kzrdude 4y ago
another if-else block? I'm thinking another database table of banned plane-route combinations, if they don't already have it.
- diputsmonro 4y ago
  Ideally, sure, but the article makes it seems like a rare ocurrence. And if their plane maintenance is any indication, I'm not sure their application architecture would be following such best practices.
  - rsynnott 4y ago
    This specific thing is a rare occurrence, but “only certain special variant planes can land at this weird airport” (for instance, LCY requires a specific 318 variant) is more common; I’d assume their software can handle all sorts of weird rules.
  - inferiorhuman 4y ago
    And if their plane maintenance is any indication Delta runs one of the premier maintenance outfits (Delta TechOps) globally. About a quarter of their TechOps business is for outside airlines. So sure if that's any indication their application architecture is probably pretty decent (it's not). This was an ETOPS flight, yeah? Those come with higher standards for crew training, maintenance, and minimum equipment per the FAA. I wouldn't worry until/unless the FAA starts making noise about revoking Delta's ETOPS certification (which would hurt their ability to fly a bunch of routes and their ability to perform maintenance for e.g. Hawaiian).
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  Seems reasonable that they have some sort of rules engine that tracks this type of thing. A country banning a particular aircraft might be rare but differing environmental and noise laws around the world probably means there are quite a few restrictions on which aircraft can go to which destinations beyond the major reasons like runway size and gate facilities.
bowmessage 4y ago
> no one was hurt Check out https://youtu.be/7PQTMx7TZ9A https://youtu.be/7PQTMx7TZ9A, quite a few folks went through some emotional trauma over this one, unfortunately.
- serf 4y ago
  I get that it was traumatic, but I don't think we should begin comparing the trauma and distress of a bad plane ride for someone with a fear of flying to the trauma and distress of a plane crash. by 'hurt' the earlier parent was pretty obviously (at least for me) referring to the chance at an outright failure and crash resulting in injury or loss of life. not that a bad experience and the resulting psychological trauma doesn't constitute 'hurt'; but it's a kind of hurt that one stands a chance to recover from .
- assttoasstmgr 4y ago
- smabie 4y ago
  Emotional trauma because your plane has to turn around? Give me a break

vorpalhex 4y ago

I kind of agree with Ghana here. Gotta maintain your planes. It's sad that a foreign country has to be the one making Delta do routine pmc.

bombcar 4y ago
More importantly, this is an easy way for Ghana to say "get another damn plane on this route".
iepathos 4y ago
They aren't making them take care of the plane though. Delta is just routing the plane to go to European countries now instead. Delta dgaf
- yardie 4y ago
  This plane is now flying LAX, JFK, Edinburgh, and Lisboa. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N195DN/history https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N195DN/history
  - tpmx 4y ago
    As it did before. During the past three months only 10 (or about 6%) of its 170 flights have involved Ghana, either as source or destination. It's mostly been flying in US/EU. Source: that URL, with an old free membership. Here's a news article from Ghana regarding the whole thing, including photos of the official letter to Delta from their aviation authority, etc: https://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Delta-Airline-number-N195DN-banned-from-flying-to-Ghana-1608143 https://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/NewsArchive/Delta-Air...
- sjm-lbm 4y ago
  They are making them take care of the plane, at least to the limits of their authority. It's not like they have much say about what a US-based airline does outside of their borders.
- BeMoreSpecific 4y ago

0110101001 4y ago

A YouTube discussion between passengers on each of the flights turned around and a professional pilot: https://youtu.be/7PQTMx7TZ9A https://youtu.be/7PQTMx7TZ9A

deelowe 4y ago
Great to see this follow up. I saw the original critique from 74 gear and didn't realize they did this.
QuadrupleA 4y ago
Thanks, saw that youtube kerfuffle a few days ago and wodered if this was related. Looks like it is.

cjrp 4y ago

> “With immediate effect, Delta Air Lines is being advised not to dispatch the B767-332 with registration number N195DN for flights to Accra.” That doesn’t sound like it’s banned to me; more like they’re just pressuring Delta to use a different aircraft.

michaelsshaw 4y ago
No, re-read it. "Advised" as in being told. Ghana has told Delta explicitly to not dispatch N195DN to Accra.

Happy4000 4y ago

Between 2010 and 2013, I used to fly to Ghana most summers. Delta would use old aircraft on this route. Inflight entertainment was the screen hanging in the middle of the aisle. Watching a movie on the flight was a challenge. You had to bring your own entertainment to pass the time. Eventually I stopped using that route and took KLM instead. KLM to Schiphol and to Accra. KLM was in a world of it's own. Similar planes irrespective of whether I was in the US or flying to Ghana. Personal inflight entertainment. The service was way better.

inferiorhuman 4y ago
Delta would use old aircraft on this route Delta uses old aircraft on most of their routes. That's been their MO for a while. Delta was the launch customer for the DC-9 in 1965 and retired the type in 2014. COVID accelerated the retirement of the derivatives (MD-80/90), but they're still flying the 717 (a.k.a. MD-95). The last time I flew SFO-JFK I was on a Delta 767-400 and yeah Delta hasn't updated the interiors on those. Compared to other airlines that typically run a premium (single aisle) product on that route the extra aisle and the 2-3-2 seating are pretty competitive unless you're jonesing for crappy seat back entertainment.
- throckmortra 4y ago
  This is a strength of theirs. They have a very strong maintenance program called TechOps
- quink 4y ago
  They have 127 Boeing 757s, a plane that stopped being made two decades ago with still no clear successor.
  - xattt 4y ago
    As does Icelandair.
  - YakBizzarro 4y ago
    I think Airbus is trying to position the A321-XLR as replacment of the 757

xvector 4y ago

It's a shame the executives running Delta aren't hit with crippling fines. The ability of individuals to hide behind the mask of a corporation is perhaps the worst thing about modern capitalism.

dijonman2 4y ago
Why hit Delta with crippling fines? Has there been loss of life? Or anything close to it? Sounds like the pilots returned to NYC out of caution. Modern aviation safety at work.
- toss1 4y ago
  >>Has there been loss of life? Not YET >>Or anything close to it? Depends on what the problems were. Smart organizations don't track accidents and deaths (e.g., factories with the big "N Days Since a Time Lost Accident" sign out front), they track anythign resembling a close call, and I've even seen signs tracking that. this is no different than tracking storage or memory failures so that you can pull the unit BEFORE it fails, because an increase in rate of minor incidents PREDICTS the failure. In the case of civil aviation, when it gets to the point of loss of life or anything close to it, you are likely talking hundreds of lives. Smart people who are not sociopaths care about preventing that sort of failure. Evidently the execs at Delta do not, just as the execs at Boeing did not, and had to kill hundreds of people in two crashes to pull the 737-max off the flightlines. Yes, this was a smart move by Ghana, and yes we do need personal liability for setting up a system that devalues people's lives in pursuit of profit (and no, that does not mean that every remote possibility of harm could send someone to jail, but systemic negligence of safety should have real consequences not just corporate fines. At the very least, if corporations are supposed to be like people, we need the corporate death penalty - significant crimes and the corp goes to the chopping block, assets individually auctioned off).
  - notahacker 4y ago
    Do you honestly think Delta isn't tracking its aircraft performance? Perhaps in even more detail than a factory with a big sign! The reason the aircraft returned to base (at great expense to Delta) on multiple occasions is because they are extremely cautious.

tomatotomato37 4y ago

It should be note that even if all these malfunctions were minor and non-hazardous having a plane divert multiple multiple times would still cause an administrative nightmare

ramesh31 4y ago

Seems like a perfect storm of max length ETOPS flight combined with a seriously aged airframe, resulting in a vastly increased margin of safety needed to complete the flight. If you plot JFK -> ACC on Google Earth, you can see the flightpath perfectly threads the needle between Bermuda and the Azores, creating what is probably the longest overwater route with no diversions possible from the east coast. The 767's are really only profitable on these "long fat" routes anymore, and I suspect this will probably be the start of Delta retiring them for 787s or A350s.

pdpi 4y ago

Banning Delta altogether seems disproportionate. Banning all 767s would be silly. Telling Delta they can’t fly this one particular plane to Accra seems to me like a perfectly reasonable response to a run of incidents involving that plane within a short period of time. Honestly, the only thing that surprises me about this is that other aviation authorities haven’t followed suit.

atdrummond 4y ago
Ghana has a particularly sensitive outlook on these things. They threatened to ban BA from flying there for having the temerity to place Accra flights out of Gatwick rather than Heathrow. (https://viewfromthewing.com/ghana-threatens-to-effectively-ban-british-airways-because-they-dont-like-london-gatwick-airport/ https://viewfromthewing.com/ghana-threatens-to-effectively-b...) It is worth noting that the airframe in question has flown perfectly fine subsequent to the ban.
- paganel 4y ago
  I stand with Ghana on this, the least the Brits could do is own up to their colonial past and not push former colonies aside as long as they’re not bringing in the money anymore (because I guess that’s the main reason behind that airport move).
  - drumhead 4y ago
    Heathrow and Gatwick are private, British Airways is private, so its got nothing to do with the Government. The decision by BA was probably made for economic reasons, the Heathrow slots could probably have been used for more profitable flights. If the demand was there another airline could have used their slots for flights to Ghana from Heathrow. Problem solved for people wanting to fly to Ghana from Heathrow. Sounds like a fit of pique from the Ghanaian government to me.
    - ImPostingOnHN 4y ago
      it sounds like you're agreeing: the move was made by the brits because the former colony wasn't bringing in enough money anymore

rafaelturk 4y ago

Looks like Ghana aviation authorities are doing a great job!

lisper 4y ago

Heh, I flew Delta from SFO to ATL a few weeks ago and ended up diverting to ABQ. It's my first diversion in a commercial jet in nearly 50 years of flying. At the time I thought it was a fluke, but now it's looking like more of a pattern.

optimalsolver 4y ago
>ended up diverting to ABQ Bugs Bunny?
- lisper 4y ago
  I knew I should have taken that left toin at Albukoikee!

bhargav 4y ago

Based on a bunch of comments and replies, it seems like many people might have missed this (or just going off the headline) they’ve banned a 767 of a specific registration number. Plenty of 767s flying there. As I write this a different Delta (DAL 156) has just departed JFK heading to Accara. So yeah, them banning that one plane is not some clever political ploy to have newer planes fly to their country lol…

erikig 4y ago

My wife and I flew the ACC to JFK flight in early Aug booked via Air France (I believe it was AF8702) and the flight was delayed by 2hrs due to an issue with the brakes that was discovered at the very last moment and that needed to be fixed while we were minutes from taxi and take off. This left us and our fellow passengers couped up on the runway for that whole period. I’ll check but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was this very plane.

google234123 4y ago
I also flew on a plane that had an issue. It was an airbus and with a completely different airline but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was this very plane.
- oceliker 4y ago
  Booked via Air France does not mean flying on an Air France plane. In this case it's in fact the same Delta flight. I checked and the only flight I can find in early-ish August that used the plane mentioned in the article was on Aug 13 [0]. But it seems the flights out of ACC are very consistently delayed. [0] https://www.planemapper.com/flights/DL157 https://www.planemapper.com/flights/DL157

jeffrallen 4y ago

If you don't like sovrignity, don't leave your country. Ghana should do what it thinks it needs to to protect it's airspace and citizens on the ground.

kensai 4y ago

They did exactly fine. African countries are no “lesser countries” when security is concerned. I hope we see it more often, if airlines don’t keep up the standards.

wiedehopf 4y ago

Aircraft is in the air right now: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a17b16&lat=54.936&lon=-36.880&zoom=4.0&showTrace=2022-08-27&leg=2&trackLabels https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a17b16&lat=54.936&lon=-... Back to back turnback: https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a17b16&lat=42.330&lon=-70.893&zoom=7.0&showTrace=2022-07-25&trackLabels https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a17b16&lat=42.330&lon=-... https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a17b16&lat=42.330&lon=-70.893&zoom=7.0&showTrace=2022-07-26&trackLabels https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a17b16&lat=42.330&lon=-...

ahi 4y ago

This isn't about safety and doesn't need to be for it to be perfectly reasonable reaction. There are 2 daily flights from the US to Ghana; this one from JFK and a United flight from Dulles. In comparison, there are more than 15 flights daily from just JFK to Heathrow. Repeatedly losing a couple hundred passengers, mostly business travelers and wealthier Ghanaian nationals is a BFD. Unreliable service inconveniences their more connected citizens, and greatly increases the costs of doing business in Ghana. Ghana needs this to be a reliable connection, and this is them telling Delta to get their act together.