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GitHub-Next
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- throwoutway 4y agoDid GitHub ever respond to the concerns about CoPilot? Specifically whether they trained it on private repos or GPL?
- NoraCodes 4y agoIt was trained on all public repos, and only public repos. They did not pay attention to licensing.
- Thev00d00 4y agoWow, that's crazy. Do we have something official that says as much?
- jacquesm 4y agoIt's infuriating, when you are large enough you can get away with anything when it comes to copyright violations but I remember the crazy pushback on things like format and time shifting against private individuals.
- voxic11 4y agoThose things were ultimately ruled as fair use though which is what Microsoft is claiming here as well.
- jacquesm 4y agoThose things were fair use, what Microsoft is doing is copyright violation pure and simple.
- voxic11 4y agoMaybe, but then every large AI project is also committing copyright violations because as Microsoft notes this is currently a common practice in the AI research community.
- jacquesm 4y agoOther parties doing is no excuse imo. Microsoft has been super litigious in the past when it came to copyright violation starting all the way back with Bill Gates' letter in Byte magazine about those pesky pirates. To see them do this makes pirating MS software fair game from here on. They could have asked nicely, instead they just took.
- searchableguy 4y ago> Other parties doing is no excuse imo It is. Laws are adapted based on widespread technological capabilities and progress. As an example, if it is easy to create real voice or signature using AI models - they should no longer be considered effective evidence for contractual reason instead of enforcing that it is illegal to forge it. That is not going to work. Past shouldn't dictate what we allow tomorrow.
- jacquesm 4y agoSorry, but that's not how the law works. Try that excuse the next time you're stopped for speeding and see how well it works.
- searchableguy 4y agoYour example is not good. Speeding is not a technical innovation that require any fundamental change. It is enforced in automated fashion and it is beneficial for the safety of public at large if reasonably implemented. All laws are made in interest of someone. Does the copyright apply to AI models since they are out of scope and weren't widespread when it came into force? Does the proposed benefit in the original law apply in practice? Are they more beneficial than the progress allowed by AI models who use them as training data? Is the copyright law practically enforceable on output generated by AI models?
- avg_dev 4y agoWhat is format and time shifting? I am wondering if you mean like code formatting and reordering history, but I’m not really sure. Thanks.
- voxic11 4y agoYou can read between the lines > GitHub Copilot is trained on billions of lines of public code. > In one instance, GitHub Copilot suggested starting an empty file with something it had even seen more than a whopping 700,000 different times during training–that was the GNU General Public License. https://github.blog/2021-06-30-github-copilot-research-recitation/ https://github.blog/2021-06-30-github-copilot-research-recit... This indicates that they are training it on github's public repositories and at the very least including 700,000 GPL licensed projects or code files. Since the GPL is one of the most "restrictive" open source licenses one can assume they are not caring about the licenses much.
- NoraCodes 4y agoI asked, and that's what their spokesperson said via email.
- mysore 4y agocopilot is just a prototype. imagine in 10-20 years, software engineers as we know it will be obsolete.
- mikepurvis 4y agoLots of other languages, tools, libraries, and frameworks have already made SWEs orders of magnitude more productive over the course of the last 40+ years. I don't think there's any indication of the field shrinking or slowing down as a result of that though.
- joshthecynic 4y ago
- cush 4y ago
- bodge5000 4y agoI remember when this was said about visual-programming. That didn't exactly pan out
- reaperducer 4y agoimagine in 10-20 years, software engineers as we know it will be obsolete. I've heard people saying this since the mid-70's. I lump it into the same trash bin with flying cars and orbiting space hotels, and "90 minutes from New York to Paris — undersea by rail." Things envisioned by artists that will never happen in my lifetime, or yours.
- edgyquant 4y agoYea because in the future everyone will write code and things like Copilot get us there. You’re probably an engineer who likes making way more than average. So you’re biased
- blackoil 4y agoThat's such a vague and novel area, that I don't think lawyers will recommend/allow commenting on it unless required by court of law. There is no precedent on if a computer reading your code or looking at the image is fair-use or not.
- 2Gkashmiri 4y agowhy not train it on copyright material also? whats the prima-facie reason for not doing so? i mean if you are doing "all public repos", why not everything else?
- ziml77 4y agoThey did train it on copyrighted work. The GPL is a license for copyrighted work. If it wasn't copyrighted, a license would be useless. The code being covered by copyright and the code being publicly accessible are two different things.
- 2Gkashmiri 4y agoyou know what i mean... i am talking about training it on windows OS code and adobe photoshop source code and other "proprietary software" code
- tpmoney 4y agoBecause scraping a public website is different from breaking into adobes private source control servers?
- 2Gkashmiri 4y agothere is public DB of windows code out there, if "cant" is the word then let users submit the injest code and let it train on it. if "wont" is the word then who gave them the permission?
- 4y ago
- hbn 4y agoCould they use the blurb of text at the top to give me like... a noun to describe what this is? It just says some vagueness about the future and investigating and exploring. Is it a conference? A team? An initiative? How does it work? Whatever this is supposed to be selling me on, they're doing a terrible job because I can't figure out what it is!
- nvrspyx 4y agoIt seems to be a research team within GitHub based on the blurb, projects, and team.
- tuukkah 4y agoFrom Twitter bio: "GitHub Next: a team exploring the future of technology and software beyond the adjacent-possible." https://twitter.com/githubnext https://twitter.com/githubnext Their team consists of engineers and researchers.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- cush 4y agoDid they add this in the last 40 mins? I'm seeing a pretty good description: " GitHub Next investigates the future of software development. We explore things beyond the adjacent possible. Tools and technologies that will change our craft. New approaches to building healthy, productive software engineering teams. "
- cmeacham98 4y agoThat explains what it does (somewhat vaguely), but not what Github Next is and who makes it up. Is it a team at GitHub that employees work on full time? It it some kind of initiative where GitHub employees spend part of their time working on it? Is it a community effort? Am I able to join in?
- cush 4y agoI don't have such high expectations for websites. It's just a showcase, and it really looks like a showcase site, so the description seemed good enough
- haskellandchill 4y agoSimon Peyton Jones and John Hughes, not bad.
- owlbynight 4y agoI read the whole page and still can't tell what this is. Was someone up against a deadline to get this up?
- jayroh 4y agoIf anyone on the team at GitHub who built this site sees this -- Heads up, that page has no `<title>` tag so the browser tab is `githubnext.com/`. That is a _VERY_ minor nit, but still an SEO ding (you're github, that doesn't matter much), and a rough edge that could be buffed out. Bonus points for adding a favicon too. :)
- debugnik 4y ago> That is a _VERY_ minor nit Well, the title is precisely the only mandatory element in a valid HTML5 document, even if forgetting it seems harmless.
- capableweb 4y agoLong time ago I read/skimmed the specification, but I think the DOCTYPE preamble is the only _required_ element in a HTML5 document. The specification allows you to omit <head/> if it's empty, and if that's allowed, then it should be allowed to not having any <title/> elements as well. Edit with details from https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/document-metadata.html#the-head-element https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/document-metad... > Note: The title element is a required child in most situations, but when a higher-level protocol provides title information, e.g. in the Subject line of an e-mail when HTML is used as an e-mail authoring format, the title element can be omitted. From https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/document-metadata.html#the-title-element https://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-html5-20141028/document-metad... > If it's reasonable for the Document to have no title, then the title element is probably not required. See the head element's content model for a description of when the element is required. So strictly speaking, if it's meant to be used as a traditional web page, you should really have it (obviously), but it's not strictly required.
- debugnik 4y agoFrom the head element section mentioned: > If the document is an iframe srcdoc document or if title information is available from a higher-level protocol: Zero or more elements of metadata content, of which no more than one is a title element […]. > Otherwise: One or more elements of metadata content, of which exactly one is a title element […]. So it is required, not just suggested, for a web page, but not for all kinds of html documents; TIL. The parser still tries to parse head contents before body contents even if you omit the head tags, so a doctype followed by title is the shortest valid full page. I didn't mention the doctype because I believe it isn't strictly speaking an element, just a preamble, but you're right, it's required as well.
- boredumb 4y agoco-pilot used to generate react code with a GUI visualization tool. Boy am I excited for the amount of money people will be paying for ongoing maintenance for this brave new world.
- blondin 4y agohonestly want a non-vscode plugin for copilot.
- PufPufPuf 4y agoThere are plugins for VSCode, VS, everything JetBrains and Neovim. What else could you want?
- speedgoose 4y agoIt exists for Neovim or jetbrains.
- eixiepia 4y agoIf the team needs some data on bloated, slow software and bad practices, they can create an account on gitlab.com and look around for a few minutes.
- user3939382 4y agoIf the web implementation of git could be as federated/decentralized/open as git is so that GitHub didn't exist, that would be my ideal "GitHub-Next". Please eliminate yourselves.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- vemv 4y ago> GitHub Next investigates the future of software development. Yesterday I tried to use Datadog's Github integration for stacktraces and it asked me for "access Github on my behalf". It's been the same since the beginning of Github - they leave integrators with no better options, and users with an ambiguous UI dialog / docs that downplay the scope being granted. Sooooo maybe fix your own stuff before making such grandiose claims?
- saurik 4y agoWhy wouldn't this be done over git? It seems almost ridiculous for this to be a GitHub-specific API and authentication mechanism instead of merely authorizing an SSH key from Datadog (which would then allow whatever this service is doing with the source code to also work for any other source code hosting solution).
- hobofan 4y agoBecause DataDog's GitHub integration does in addition to git data also take GitHub data into account to provide a better user experience. E.g. for giving "this action broke this thing" insights giving you a clickable link to a GitHub PR instead of just providing you with a git SHA hash. They also provide a direct git integration, which as far as I can tell just is a reduced version of the GitHub one, with a featureset that seems reasonable if they only have the pure git data.
- bastardoperator 4y agoMetadata lives in the API, not the git repo. I would argue a github app with rotating hourly tokens which datadog seems to support is better than a users ssh key or an ssh key with access to many repos.
- keriati1 4y agoVisualising a Codebase: This sounds very interesting, it looks like similar graphics as what CodeScene creates. The dependency between the modules seems like a nice addition to me. I don't think CodeScene has that one. Can't wait to try this on our bigger projects. I never found a really good way to visualize large codebases and the dependencies between the modules, does somebody have something for this?
- brockrockman 4y agoDoes githubnext.com read as a phishing-adjacent third party to anyone else? Why not deploy as next.github.com subdomain?
- IshKebab 4y agoThis happens all the time because setting up an entirely new domain yourself is way less work than asking the internal IT team to set up a subdomain for you. If the GitHub IT team is reading this then yes, that means you failed.
- tomschlick 4y agoI'd imagine it's less about setup complexity and more about reducing the attack surface of the main domain where any number of mistakes on the subdomain could expose a vulnerability for the main domain as well.
- IshKebab 4y agoNot in my experience. It's about avoiding bureaucracy.
- oogali 4y agoLikely for a security-driven reason: it’s primarily a marketing site that shouldn’t have access to the .github.com cookie space.
- idan 4y agoBingo
- idan 4y agoUsed to be that way! But actually for security reasons, it was better for us to operate out of a separate domain. The github.com domain is very locked down for good reason. Also, various boring realities around SSL termination made deployment difficult in a github.com domain. This was the expedient solution. Not phishing!
- saos 4y agoA nice diverse team they have there /s
- FemmeAndroid 4y agoIs this essentially a rebranding of what was GitHub OCTO (Office of the CTO, I believe?)
- TAForObvReasons 4y agoYes. https://github.com/githubocto https://github.com/githubocto > We moved to https://github.com/githubnext https://github.com/githubnext! https://github.com/githubocto/flat https://github.com/githubocto/flat still using old name
- idan 4y agoYup! When Jason departed, we couldn't be an OCTO without a CTO soooo rebrand! but the mission remains the same. Prototype things to figure out what should be!
- carapace 4y agoWill they be innovating in ways that we get to use for free? Or are they creating new ways to get in-between the coder and the machine? E.g. Copilot is a paid subscription. By enabling increased complexity (via Language Server Protocol, Copilot, and even GitHub itself) devs get locked-in to the MS ecosystem. It reminds me of Braess's paradox ("adding one or more roads to a road network can slow down overall traffic flow through it" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox ). Increasing our ability to generate (but not comprehend) complex systems is also intrinsically dangerous (beyond the "rent seeking" of MS) because complexity itself is a kind of cost or overhead. This is not to say that the more complex system cannot result in efficiency gains that outweigh the cost to maintain that complexity. (If that were true there would be no multicellular life, eh?) It means complexity should be carefully justified in terms of economic/engineering considerations.
- bern4444 4y agoRegarding visualization of codebases, something I've wanted for a long time is a graph of function calls across an entire project. I want to know all the callers and callees of every function. This shouldn't be too hard, we already have find references via LSP. Turning this into a graph would make it significantly easier to manage the entry and exit points of a code base and inform architecture decisions, refactors, type checking, hot paths etc.
- avg_dev 4y agoThat’s a cool idea. I don’t know much about ASTs or anything but I know you are right about LSP being able to find most everything I am searching for in the mostly statically typed languages I’ve worked with. Would be fun to try that out over a weekend or three.
- kelsolaar 4y agoI have been looking for something like that for a while and your reply made me look again. I just came across Codemap (haven’t tried): https://codemap.app/ https://codemap.app/
- bern4444 4y agoThanks for sharing! This looks pretty close to what I had in mind.
- madelyn 4y agoI ended up doing this for our python codebases at work. The AST module was super handy as you'd expect. The script would optionally take some filters to reduce the size of the generated graph, and then it sent all the info to Graphiz (it emitted DOT, too, so it could be version controlled!!) It was extremely fun, highly recommended.
- 0x09 4y agoDoxygen has the ability to generate these with its CALL_GRAPH/CALLER_GRAPH config, at least from each function individually. It can look quite funny when the depth isn't limited: https://i.imgur.com/3LMV71N.png https://i.imgur.com/3LMV71N.png
- ilovecaching 4y agoI really don't like the two trends Github is pushing for: 1. Code editor is full of telemetry and costs money, only accessible over the internet. 2. Code regressing into lots of boilerplate and automatically copied stack overflow answers by copilot, programmers using less critical thinking skills. I don't trust Microsoft either.
- vi2837 4y agoFun name, and they do what everyone do constantly: "exploring the future of technology and software beyond.." :)
- sizediterable 4y agoHow about making Github-Current actually have a good code review UX?
- edgyquant 4y agoGitHub’s code review UX is the reason a lot of us use it (or were sold on it at least.)
- idan 4y agoWe're thinking about review experiences! We're developers too, and we're keenly interested in how to make code more reviewable, how to help developers _make_ code more reviewable, and alternative interfaces to the notion of changesets.
- codeapprove 4y agoThat’s what we’re trying to do at CodeApprove: build a code review tool for power users. UX is a huge part of it. If you’re interested, check out https://codeapprove.com https://codeapprove.com