5 ms·

Wait till we need to place elements higher than on the top layer. This will surely be abused by plugins.

by kingo55 4y ago

amluto 4y ago
top-layer-index: 1 will be the default, and on top of that will be top-layer-index: 2
- mattnewton 4y ago
  .futureproofHeader { z-index: 999 !important; top-layer: 999 !important; -webKit-actually-paint-me-last: true !inportant;
  - kingo55 4y ago
    .futureproofHeaderMax { z-index: 10000 !important; top-layer: 10000 !important; -webKit-actually-paint-me-last: true !important; -webkit-no-backsies: true !important;}
- snoopy_telex 4y ago
  So last created layer wins the display? or can you indicate priority via css?
- datadata 4y ago
  Just like the ordinal number in the study of infinite sets
notriddle 4y ago
1. This is straight up <https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20110310-00/?p=11253 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20110310-00/?p=11...> and <https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20050607-00/?p=35413 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20050607-00/?p=35...>. Since the Chrome team probably have at least one team member who reads that blog, they'll probably do the same thing and make this the "the buck stops here" rule for anything that doesn't have special privileges, like the browser itself or extensions. 2. There should be a webext-exclusive API for placing items above the top layer.
- jasonjayr 4y ago
  From the oldnewthing blog: > And it’ll try something nastier, like enumerating all the processes on the system, attaching to each one with debug privilege, and suspending all the threads. This is like playing corewars with Windows desktop software :) > “Note to self: Do not get into a walls-and-ladders contest with Raymond.” Don't play with the person who knows all the lower levels :)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dataflow 4y ago
  The problem with those blog posts is that they apply just as equally well to the existing "topmost" flag as they do to the hypothetical "super topmost" flags. The answer to "what if two programs have the topmost flag set?" wasn't "you violate the laws of metaphysics", it was "well then they order relative to each other the usual way". The same thing would presumably apply for even higher-level topmost flags; it's just a hierarchical ordering mechanism, which is in no way logically inconsistent as Raymond makes them appear. Moreover, Windows literally added support for the "even more topmost" feature later - they're called "bands", and supported by CreateWindowInBand(), except IIRC Microsoft later restricted support for that function to its own signed binaries, presumably to prevent vendors from abusing it. Needless to say, the addition of that function didn't violate the accepted rules of metaphysics.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    It sems you are agreeing with Raymond, but make it sound like you don’t?
    - dataflow 4y ago
      I'm pretty sure I'm disagreeing? He's claiming having a "super-topmost" feature would somehow defy logic, whereas I'm saying it's perfectly fine—you can (and later Microsoft literally did) implement a "super-topmost" flag perfectly fine, and it would literally mean "this is on top of all topmost windows", just as the customer had requested. Of course logically it couldn't always be on top of other super-topmost windows, but that's not what the customer asked for either.
immibis 4y ago
I thought we went over this almost two decades ago. http://bytepointer.com/resources/old_new_thing/20050607_141_what_if_two_programs_did_this.htm http://bytepointer.com/resources/old_new_thing/20050607_141_...
- Romanulus 4y ago
lloeki 4y ago
I've been toying with a CRT theme with scanline effects in CSS. Since this is an effect that would apply to the whole viewport it would need to be above everything else... I'm currently using z-index. Well, since I control the whole content and know there's no dialog or anything else like that on my blog I could put it in toplevel, but what if I had? What if multiple stacked dialogs were to be opened (Win 3.1 style)? Is it possible to order things inside this toplevel? Maybe using z-index? In any case, I'm just discovering this but it seems to be more about having a container with specific positioning than just replacing z-index (which is merely a consequence of that container loving outside of the <html> object). Also makes me want to have a bottom-level as well (e.g implementing cool effects on the background, think X11 root window).

Wait till we need to place elements higher than on the top layer. This will surely be abused by plugins.

amluto 4y ago

top-layer-index: 1 will be the default, and on top of that will be top-layer-index: 2

mattnewton 4y ago
.futureproofHeader { z-index: 999 !important; top-layer: 999 !important; -webKit-actually-paint-me-last: true !inportant;
- kingo55 4y ago
  .futureproofHeaderMax { z-index: 10000 !important; top-layer: 10000 !important; -webKit-actually-paint-me-last: true !important; -webkit-no-backsies: true !important;}
snoopy_telex 4y ago
So last created layer wins the display? or can you indicate priority via css?
datadata 4y ago
Just like the ordinal number in the study of infinite sets

notriddle 4y ago

1. This is straight up <https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20110310-00/?p=11253 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20110310-00/?p=11...> and <https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20050607-00/?p=35413 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20050607-00/?p=35...>. Since the Chrome team probably have at least one team member who reads that blog, they'll probably do the same thing and make this the "the buck stops here" rule for anything that doesn't have special privileges, like the browser itself or extensions. 2. There should be a webext-exclusive API for placing items above the top layer.

jasonjayr 4y ago
From the oldnewthing blog: > And it’ll try something nastier, like enumerating all the processes on the system, attaching to each one with debug privilege, and suspending all the threads. This is like playing corewars with Windows desktop software :) > “Note to self: Do not get into a walls-and-ladders contest with Raymond.” Don't play with the person who knows all the lower levels :)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dataflow 4y ago
The problem with those blog posts is that they apply just as equally well to the existing "topmost" flag as they do to the hypothetical "super topmost" flags. The answer to "what if two programs have the topmost flag set?" wasn't "you violate the laws of metaphysics", it was "well then they order relative to each other the usual way". The same thing would presumably apply for even higher-level topmost flags; it's just a hierarchical ordering mechanism, which is in no way logically inconsistent as Raymond makes them appear. Moreover, Windows literally added support for the "even more topmost" feature later - they're called "bands", and supported by CreateWindowInBand(), except IIRC Microsoft later restricted support for that function to its own signed binaries, presumably to prevent vendors from abusing it. Needless to say, the addition of that function didn't violate the accepted rules of metaphysics.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  It sems you are agreeing with Raymond, but make it sound like you don’t?
  - dataflow 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure I'm disagreeing? He's claiming having a "super-topmost" feature would somehow defy logic, whereas I'm saying it's perfectly fine—you can (and later Microsoft literally did) implement a "super-topmost" flag perfectly fine, and it would literally mean "this is on top of all topmost windows", just as the customer had requested. Of course logically it couldn't always be on top of other super-topmost windows, but that's not what the customer asked for either.

immibis 4y ago

I thought we went over this almost two decades ago. http://bytepointer.com/resources/old_new_thing/20050607_141_what_if_two_programs_did_this.htm http://bytepointer.com/resources/old_new_thing/20050607_141_...

Romanulus 4y ago

lloeki 4y ago

I've been toying with a CRT theme with scanline effects in CSS. Since this is an effect that would apply to the whole viewport it would need to be above everything else... I'm currently using z-index. Well, since I control the whole content and know there's no dialog or anything else like that on my blog I could put it in toplevel, but what if I had? What if multiple stacked dialogs were to be opened (Win 3.1 style)? Is it possible to order things inside this toplevel? Maybe using z-index? In any case, I'm just discovering this but it seems to be more about having a container with specific positioning than just replacing z-index (which is merely a consequence of that container loving outside of the <html> object). Also makes me want to have a bottom-level as well (e.g implementing cool effects on the background, think X11 root window).