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Apple is building an ad empire as its iPhone privacy crackdown weakens rivals
- franczesko 4y agoHate the phone, love the stock.
- ftyhbhyjnjk 4y agoApple is a hypocrite. Have been saying this for years now. A deeply corrupted, arrogant and empathyless organization.
- politelemon 4y agoI was pointing out this very possibility when their 'privacy' controls started kicking in and I would get heavily downvoted for it. Their privacy measures are not privacy measures at all, they are simply a userbase lockout.
- adrr 4y agoCorporation exists at the sole benefit of the shareholders unless they are a B corp.
- FredPret 4y agoCorruption would be if they used company money for something that doesn’t create value for the owners, or bribed government officials. Certainly there is more than zero corruption, but it doesn’t seem like a characteristic feature. Arrogance would be if they rested on their laurels and stopped innovating. Empathy is a human quality, and not something organizations can have. Hypocrisy may or may not apply, but at least they aren’t selling my data to the highest bidder. I trust them with my data and they keep it to themselves. I’m OK with that.
- ramesh31 4y agoApple is uniquely positioned to come out on top of the cookie-pocalypse. All of their work with Apple ID will pay off once they have the largest first party audiencing capability in the world.
- sokoloff 4y agoI suspect it won’t be the largest (by population), but it could easily be the most valuable.
- bushbaba 4y agoI just wish the government stepped in and prevented this. this is an anti competitive move.
- ramesh31 4y ago>I just wish the government stepped in and prevented this. this is an anti competitive move. Apple just made the first move. The downfall of third party tracking was inevitable. Google themselves are ending cookie support next year with Chrome.
- bushbaba 4y agoI also believe googles Ad ecosystem should also be broken up to foster better competition
- parasubvert 4y agoWhat’s anti-competitive about letting customers block third party tracking cookies? Unless you’re saying Apple shouldn’t be in the Ad business at all. But then neither should Google, or Meta, and that’s their entire revenue stream.
- greenthrow 4y agoThis article does not support its clickbait headline with much in the way of facts. "Analysts estimate" that Apple's ad revenue could drastically increase. Insiders talk of a reorganization. There might be ads included in more apps. The headline makes a major assertion the body does not support.
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- ninepoints 4y agoArticle says Apple is adding ads, and they will benefit from data their competitors now do not have. What else is there to support?
- lotsofpulp 4y agoThere is nothing to support, because it is all conjecture. That is the problem. This is the source the Axios page links to, which is just a Bloomberg writer postulating what Apple might do. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-aapl-set-to-expand-advertising-bringing-ads-to-maps-tv-and-books-apps-l6tdqqmg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-...
- mistercool 4y agoHow else are they supposed to report on this if Apple is not even disclosing the revenue they get from advertising? Expert analysis and anonymous sources seem like the most journalistically diligent path they have. Do we just not report on Apple's ads because they choose not to provide us with first hand information?
- wowokay 4y agoWith facts, research, leaked documents.
- parasubvert 4y agoIt’s Axios, vapid political clickbait is kind of their thing.
- bwb 4y agocapitalism?
- ftyhbhyjnjk 4y ago
- bfrog 4y agoYeah if ads are added, I’d like my money refunded
- ftyhbhyjnjk 4y agoApple smells like a dystopian corporate org.
- chiefalchemist 4y agoGoogle and Facebook build ad empires after kneecapping everyone's privacy. But seriously, the aggregated annual revenue of the Top 5 (in the first chart in the article) is $375b. Regardless of what Apple has said or done, why would anyone think Apple wouldn't want a piece of that action? I'm not defending Apple, only being objective and realistic.
- teekert 4y agoThey talk about Apple maps and I for one would like to be able to say I’m looking for a restaurant and see the logos pop up along my route. I’m just hoping Apple will keep their privacy focus. Ads and privacy do not need to be opposed ideas. Ie, my fav Dutch tech blog tweakers.net recently removed all tracking form their ads and serve them locally. I gladly turned off adblock for them and the site was still pleasant. Ads are tech relevant, well labeled, unobtrusive and not about what I bought 2 months ago, win win.
- pbz 4y agoIf they serve them locally (same domain as / part of the main site) they could still track you on the backend and you wouldn't even know it.
- bombcar 4y agoAll I want is to easily be able to tell Maps “find the next exit with a McDonalds” but this is too complicated a query and so you need a copilot to fight the maps (or use Google maps to find the McDonald’s while leaving the original on your destination on Maps).
- adriancr 4y agoI've actually done this multiple times on google maps - search along route is the feature
- diebeforei485 4y agoThere is a feature to search along the route.
- gsatic 4y agoWell this is not a story about a tech blogger. This is a story about a Corporate Mega Machine with thousands of Corporate Robots all programmed with the same code. To optimize for growth. One robot opposes it. Ten robots will line up to slit its throat and take its place.
- justapassenger 4y ago
- magwa101 4y ago
- illwrks 4y agoImagine this with a business version/evolution of AirTags, digital targeted advertising with a physical element.
- 88840-8855 4y agoAnd this is hopefully killing Apple. Right now they charge a premium for 1) having a seamless experience between devices, 2) being something else than google. Apple was interesting because you was paying for the hardware and software with money, not with data. Regarding 1) Hopefully the EU will help breaking up the monopoly Regarding 2) Why should I buy apple and pay the premium? I will buy Samsung or Huawei.
- MomoXenosaga 4y agoApple doesn't have a monopoly in Europe.
- 88840-8855 4y agoClose enough to a monopoly.
- kcplate 4y ago> And this is hopefully killing Apple Seeing as how Apple managed to avoid dying in 1998 when it’s revenue was $7B and was operating in the red, I am pretty sure an excursion into digital advertising on 1.6B installed devices when they have revenues nearing $400B/yr, with $160B in profit isn’t going to be the death knell.
- mark_l_watson 4y agoWell, after selling 2 billion iPhones, it makes sense that Apple needs to start making money in other ways, such as user services in Apple+ (which I think is a good deal, especially for the family plan). Just my opinion but I don't much mind some advertisements if I feel like they are not impacting my devices' security or my privacy. I am a huge fan of Apple's new Lockdown Mode - I have it enabled 99% of the time.
- axg11 4y agoDo you run into any difficulties with Lockdown Mode enabled regularly?
- mark_l_watson 4y agoOnly one difficulty: I like to look at Kindle books "Look inside" feature on amazon.com and Lockdown Mode messes this up. It takes me about 10 seconds to disable Lockdown for amazon.com domain, and when I am done previewing a book it takes another 10 seconds to re-enable it. The end result is that I don't preview as many potential Kindle purchases.
- TakeBlaster16 4y agoAfter the first sentence I thought this was parody, but after reading the rest I guess you're being genuine. Why is selling billions of thousand-dollar devices not enough? Can't they be satisfied with a successful business selling hardware at high markups to repeat customers? Why do they also need to expand into ads and destroy their hard-won reputation of being a premium brand, to milk those few extra cents per user?
- pixl97 4y agoDo markets not demand continual growth forever? New phones are no longer a growth market. Everyone has one, and buying a $1200 phone every year is something less and less people are doing. If Apple totally trashes their reputation, who are they going to flock to... Google? That is just jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.
- Havoc 4y agoSounds like they're copying google with their desire to get rid of cookies / FLOC etc. Strong privacy stance on privacy for others (and in media)...but very quiet on 1st party inhouse ability to connect the dots. I have a hard time seeing how this doesn't end in anti-trust tears for both of them
- MomoXenosaga 4y agoAt least Android can't stop you from installing ad blockers.
- pretext-1 4y agoiOS natively supports content blockers and Safari extensions.
- roflc0ptic 4y agoSuper misleading. You can block websites manually, but you can’t add an adblocker to Chrome - so if you want an ad free experience, then you’re forced to use safari, a historically subpar browser - but worse, it’s vendor lock in. If this article is true, this is some terrifically anti competitive behavior
- doublepg23 4y agoI believe that’s Chrome’s decision - like on Android. I’m using Firefox Focus with its native Content Blocker.
- omgrusrs 4y agoAll browsers on iOS are merely rebranded safari. No such thing as a subpar browser IMO, just subpar websites that require browser features no one should need.
- samatman 4y agoI'll take the one with about a 1/4 the energy usage and proper tail calls in Javascript. Think those are related? I think they are. Who knows. I just respect tail call elimination.
- ElCheapo 4y agoThe moment they try something like this I'm popping out my 5yo Android phone with no Google sevices and adiòs. I already use a pretty much stock iOS system and only because the apps are just so convenient and ad-free, but if push comes to shove I'll have to retreat to AOSP default options.
- justapassenger 4y agoWe sell you super expensive product, charge everyone 30% tax for anything you buy on it, put health monitoring devices on you (that you pay for), have directly your credit cards in the wallet (including custom one from us) and in the end capture more data that any other ads giant now. And we’ll use that for ads. But it’s fine. It’s locally so it’s fine and you are not a product. All because we convinced people using our deep pockets that they should only care if data is on servers?
- s1k3s 4y agoThere is no competitor to their super expensive product.
- croes 4y agoOf course there is. Apple advantage is it's closed system not the iPhone. If you only need to maintain compatibility to your own products it's easy. If it wear MS not Apple they would already be fined for anti competitive behavior. Where is the difference between MS bundling IE with Windows and Apple forcing Webkit in all iOS browsers?
- macintux 4y ago> Where is the difference between MS bundling IE with Windows and Apple forcing Webkit in all iOS browsers? Monopoly.
- BbzzbB 4y agoYou mean Facebook which is today's scapegoat. They can't buy Beat Saber or Giphy. Microsoft is buying the largest game developer for $70B without skipping a beat.
- metadat 4y agoAnd every major tech firm buying up healthcare arms.
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- daedric7 4y ago
- bee_rider 4y agoIf I were Apple, I'd try serving ads something like: Send a randomized bundle of ads to each iPhone (the ads must come from my servers). From that bundle, select the ads that fit user interests most closely. Don't report which specific ad the user was served. This would presumably be quite annoying for advertisers, but it would preserve user privacy and, hey, Apple basically has a monopoly on users who actually pay for apps so what are they going to do? Perhaps the advertiser could be provided with some artificial profiles with statistically representative taste profiles to see how often their ads come up.
- JulianaRestrepo 4y agoas usual the apple subreddit was cheering for this before the thread got removed
- politelemon 4y agoHN is cheering it too, but I'm not surprised about it.
- stjohnswarts 4y agoTalk about Stockholm syndrome...
- tzs 4y ago> Apple’s ad business began to boom following changes it made last year to its app tracking policies that made it easier for iPhone users to opt out of being tracked across other apps on their phones. What's the mechanism here? Is it something like this? Before the change: 1. I use say a free (with ads) guitar tuner app. 2. That app usage gets shared with Facebook's app. 3. Facebook now knows I'm probably a guitar player, or at least probably play some instrument that is commonly tuned by the player. 4. Companies who want to reach guitar players buy ads on Facebook. A Facebook ad has a good chance of reaching me. After the change: 1. I use a free (with ads) guitar tuner app, but opt out of cross app tracking. 2. Facebook is less likely to find out I'm a guitar player. This reduces the value of Facebook ads to the companies that want to reach guitar players. 3. They shift some of their ad budget from Facebook ads to ads in guitar tuner apps.
- chillee 4y ago> That app usage gets shared with Facebook's app. That's not really the primary mechanism, as far as I know. My understanding of the flow is this: Before: 1. You browse Facebook. 2. Companies who want to sell a guitar tuner app buy ads targeted to guitar tuner apps. 3. You click on the ad, and you download the app. Both the app and Facebook get an unique ID identifying you (this is called the "ID for Advertisers" or IDFA). 4. You use the app, maybe pay them money. The app is able to directly attribute you giving them money to the ad it ran on Facebook, and Facebook is able to know that you converted on the ad, which is very good signal. 5. The company is able to accurately track its conversions, and Facebook is able to accurately price ads. After: 1. You browse Facebook (and opt out of cross-app tracking). 2. Companies buy the ad, you click on it, download the app. 3. You no longer get an ID, instead both Facebook and the company get a scrambled ID that they can no longer link. 4. As a result, Facebook can no longer attribute the results of its ads as effectively, leading to less accurate signal and less confidence from advertisers. From my understanding, one of the ironic things now is that ATT has forced companies like Facebook to collect even more data (see https://twitter.com/modestproposal1/status/1527297086060113920 https://twitter.com/modestproposal1/status/15272970860601139...). Because Apple no longer provides this unique ID for Facebook/advertisers to uniquely track conversions, apps/Facebook are forced to rely on much more data collection in order to probabilistically predict conversions. Much of my knowledge of this area comes from Stratechery - I think this article, particularly the section entitled "And" explains what "cross app tracking" is: https://stratechery.com/2022/data-and-definitions/ https://stratechery.com/2022/data-and-definitions/
- seydor 4y agoApple must remember that it's a lifestyle brand. If their customers start seeing ads it will damage the brand substantially.
- elforce002 4y agoThe question will go to which company do you hate the least. I've used Android since forever and I'm planning on jumping ship. Apple is playing its cards to perfection. "No one is gonna track you... except for us, of course, but we won't be like those leeches at fb/googl". Their brand is strong and consumer perception is everything. Fb has lost all credibility and loosing ground every day which explains their hail mary move with meta and googl with their "don't be evil" backfired really hard after they removed the slogan + change directions on different things + their "graveyard" and failed ventures (google plus, stadia, etc...). "Luckily" for them (googl/fb), the rest of the world doesn't have the purchase parity of the US and they can milk that cow. Heck, Fb basically is the "internet" in some countries and TSPs have offerings around it (Free Fb, Ig, Ws Navigation).
- stjohnswarts 4y agoI don't care if the rivals fold and close up shop lol. Also I don't have to stick with apple if they start shoving ads at me constantly. To be honest I -could- get by with a flip phone or just using my iphone as such and turning off data. I consider most of the trappings of iphones as niceties and not necessities. All I really need is to check my email, sms, and receive calls. Most times I have a laptop with me to do the rest.