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Don't worry I'm European and 90% of developers I know think exactly like you (and me). It's just that the HN crowd is typically North American, and people tend

by skneko 4y ago

Don't worry I'm European and 90% of developers I know think exactly like you (and me). It's just that the HN crowd is typically North American, and people tend to like what they have grown with.

jononomo 4y ago
All the European developers I worked with in Berlin used Macs. I can understand using Linux, but using Windows as a web developer just doesn't make sense because all of the tutorials and stack overflow discussions and forum discussions will assume you're using a Unix shell.
dagmx 4y ago
This is such an odd extrapolation. You can see tons of Macs or Linux in use in Europe, at conventions , in lots of dev communities, in design studios. I suspect you’re in a self selected bubble. Which you sort of allude to by saying “developers you know”, but I don’t see how that extrapolates to the continent as a whole.
timeon 4y ago
> people tend to like what they have grown with That is why parent post called mac 'counter intuitive'.
piva00 4y ago
I live in Europe and 95% of the engineers I've worked with here in major companies use a Mac. A few use Linux, absolutely no one I know (300+ developers I've interacted/paired with in the past 7 years) had a Windows machine. Not a single one.
- kramerger 4y ago
  Exactly where have you been working? I haven't seen that many macs outside design departments in any big European company I have visited. Some big companies such as Sony actually have Linux as their first choice, windows second.
  - pid-1 4y ago
    Which sort of software is used to manage large fleets of Linux clients? Like, what are the alternatives for Active Directory and MDM?
  - piva00 4y ago
    Large-ish tech companies in Sweden.
    - kruxigt 4y ago
    - kramerger 4y ago
      Absolutely not my experience from Scandinavian companies (Volvo, Ericsson, Saab, ABB,...)
      - jeltz 4y ago
        Sure, the old giants use Windows (and some Linux) but those are exceptions. There are plenty of Mac and Linux use in younger tech companies here.
      - piva00 4y ago
        Industry/hard engineering companies here do tend to go Linux on their SWE machines, I've interacted with multiple SWEs from Volvo and Ericsson on some of my employers' projects (again, including pairing sessions) and none of them were Windows users. Mostly Linux and Mac. Software companies do skew extremely into Mac territory, I really don't recall anyone ever using a Windows machine and very few run their ThinkPads with Linux, the vast majority have a Mac as a daily driver.
      - ksec 4y ago
        >Volvo, Ericsson, Saab, ABB,... I know this sounds silly or wrong, but most dont think of those as "Tech" Companies. Modern world uses of "Tech" now mostly means Software.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Outside iOS projects, and our designers, I have seldom see people use Mac's. In fact our Java folks get macbooks as option, and eventually many of whom end up migrating to ThinkPads with Red-Hat/Windows, when starting to deal with complex workloads. On the .NET teams everyone is on Windows ThinkPads.
  - jononomo 4y ago
    These are java developers, though, so probably the dregs.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago
In my experience, macs are even more popular in Western European dev shops than in the USA. Not sure about Eastern Europe, however.
de6u99er 4y ago
I'm also European, and I prefer Linux over Windows. I was using Windows and Linux in parallel for some time, but got really upset when a Microsoft Update changed system settings which was the final nail in the Microsoft coffin for me. At my last two jobs I have been using Linux as my main driver and sometimes Widows via Citrix. Now at my new job I will get a Macbook, which shouldn't be a huge difference to Linux since I already try to install most tools I need for work via Linux-Brew. That all being said, for me a non Windows desktop at work has become a requirement. If an employer would force me to use Windows I would most probably ask for much more money or more likely leave for another company.
- skneko 4y ago
  In my experience the Windows-Linux split is around 50-50, but I've only seen exactly two people with Apple devices in my entire life here. Western Europe.
solarkraft 4y ago
I'm European and really dislike using Windows. I also dislike using Linux and macOS, but macOS is the least bad.

by skneko 4y ago

Don't worry I'm European and 90% of developers I know think exactly like you (and me). It's just that the HN crowd is typically North American, and people tend to like what they have grown with.

jononomo 4y ago

All the European developers I worked with in Berlin used Macs. I can understand using Linux, but using Windows as a web developer just doesn't make sense because all of the tutorials and stack overflow discussions and forum discussions will assume you're using a Unix shell.

dagmx 4y ago

This is such an odd extrapolation. You can see tons of Macs or Linux in use in Europe, at conventions , in lots of dev communities, in design studios. I suspect you’re in a self selected bubble. Which you sort of allude to by saying “developers you know”, but I don’t see how that extrapolates to the continent as a whole.

timeon 4y ago

> people tend to like what they have grown with That is why parent post called mac 'counter intuitive'.

piva00 4y ago

I live in Europe and 95% of the engineers I've worked with here in major companies use a Mac. A few use Linux, absolutely no one I know (300+ developers I've interacted/paired with in the past 7 years) had a Windows machine. Not a single one.

kramerger 4y ago
Exactly where have you been working? I haven't seen that many macs outside design departments in any big European company I have visited. Some big companies such as Sony actually have Linux as their first choice, windows second.
- pid-1 4y ago
  Which sort of software is used to manage large fleets of Linux clients? Like, what are the alternatives for Active Directory and MDM?
- piva00 4y ago
  Large-ish tech companies in Sweden.
  - kruxigt 4y ago
  - kramerger 4y ago
    Absolutely not my experience from Scandinavian companies (Volvo, Ericsson, Saab, ABB,...)
    - jeltz 4y ago
      Sure, the old giants use Windows (and some Linux) but those are exceptions. There are plenty of Mac and Linux use in younger tech companies here.
    - piva00 4y ago
      Industry/hard engineering companies here do tend to go Linux on their SWE machines, I've interacted with multiple SWEs from Volvo and Ericsson on some of my employers' projects (again, including pairing sessions) and none of them were Windows users. Mostly Linux and Mac. Software companies do skew extremely into Mac territory, I really don't recall anyone ever using a Windows machine and very few run their ThinkPads with Linux, the vast majority have a Mac as a daily driver.
    - ksec 4y ago
      >Volvo, Ericsson, Saab, ABB,... I know this sounds silly or wrong, but most dont think of those as "Tech" Companies. Modern world uses of "Tech" now mostly means Software.
pjmlp 4y ago
Outside iOS projects, and our designers, I have seldom see people use Mac's. In fact our Java folks get macbooks as option, and eventually many of whom end up migrating to ThinkPads with Red-Hat/Windows, when starting to deal with complex workloads. On the .NET teams everyone is on Windows ThinkPads.
- jononomo 4y ago
  These are java developers, though, so probably the dregs.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

In my experience, macs are even more popular in Western European dev shops than in the USA. Not sure about Eastern Europe, however.

de6u99er 4y ago

I'm also European, and I prefer Linux over Windows. I was using Windows and Linux in parallel for some time, but got really upset when a Microsoft Update changed system settings which was the final nail in the Microsoft coffin for me. At my last two jobs I have been using Linux as my main driver and sometimes Widows via Citrix. Now at my new job I will get a Macbook, which shouldn't be a huge difference to Linux since I already try to install most tools I need for work via Linux-Brew. That all being said, for me a non Windows desktop at work has become a requirement. If an employer would force me to use Windows I would most probably ask for much more money or more likely leave for another company.

skneko 4y ago
In my experience the Windows-Linux split is around 50-50, but I've only seen exactly two people with Apple devices in my entire life here. Western Europe.

solarkraft 4y ago

I'm European and really dislike using Windows. I also dislike using Linux and macOS, but macOS is the least bad.