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I gotta say, it's hard to know how much of a hurdle has been cleared here when this project seems to be absolutely nothing but hurdles to clear. Normally I woul
by carbonguy 4y ago
I gotta say, it's hard to know how much of a hurdle has been cleared here when this project seems to be absolutely nothing but hurdles to clear. Normally I would guess that getting this report approved would be a big deal in that construction could finally really get going, but then I read this:
> The Board’s certification of the San Francisco to San Jose Final EIR/EIS and approval of its project section will move the project section closer to being “shovel ready” when funding for final design, pre-construction and construction becomes available.
"Closer" to being "shovel ready" when "funding for final design... becomes available" is not a series of words that gives me confidence that meaningful progress has been made. However, I grant that I am no expert in the art of parsing press releases about big infrastructure projects.
Anybody out there with meaningful understanding of what this announcement might mean in practical terms?
- insane_dreamer 4y agothat's referring specifically to the SF->SJ section; building of the HSR is apparently already underway in the central valley: https://www.buildhsr.com/ https://www.buildhsr.com/
- jonny_eh 4y agoGetting to SF is rather critical to the success of the project though.
- WillPostForFood 4y agoIt has to get to SF and LA to be a success. A Fresno->SF express train would be a massive boondoggle.
- RosanaAnaDana 4y agoWhat you don't want to go to Fresno?
- lokar 4y agoA SF->Fresno->LA train will be a boondoggle. They should have used the existing right of way on I5, no stops between SJ and LA.
- SECProto 4y ago> They should have used the existing right of way on I5, no stops between SJ and LA. If you build high speed rail, you want ridership. Adding Fresno to the line takes the distance from San Jose to LA from roughly 340 miles to 366, adding roughly[1] 7 minutes to the route for express trains - hardly a dealbreaker. This also allows other trains to stop at Fresno and Bakersfield, adding a population of ~1million to the route, increasing its' viability. A straight shot down I-5 would save a few minutes but severely limit the economic and social benefits it will have by increasing access to the central valley. [1] 26 miles/220 miles per hour = 7.1 minutes. Trains that stop will add a few more minutes. Equivalent systems in every country with HSR have a mixture of express trains and local trains in this situation
- Someone 4y agoNitpick: on a 26 mile stretch with stops at both end, that train will do closer to half its top speed. It has to decelerate and accelerate one more time. I think that will add closer to 15 minutes to the time on the full stretch. But yes, they need riders, and thus intermediate stops. Most train passengers don’t ride the full track, just as most highway drivers don’t ride the entire highway.
- SECProto 4y agoYes, that is why I explicitly noted the "express train" thing in my footnote. The route itself is longer, so a direct train will take a little bit longer. A local train that stops will add more time.
- mlyle 4y agoBigger nitpick: 220MPH is the top speed. Average speed is going to be more like 130MPH, so more like 12 minutes (before considering the time for any stop).
- gedy 4y agoThey should have gone down the 101 corridor in the central coast area. The weather is pleasant and I could see people living along route and commuting to SF or LA. Central Valley was a dumb move.
- justapassenger 4y agoFrom high speed rail point of view, 101 corridor makes even less sense to put any stations there.
- Gibbon1 4y agoYeah there are a lot of people living on the east side of the Central Valley and few on the central coast.
- RhodesianHunter 4y agoHigh speed rail doesn't make frequent stops. The whole point is to get between major cities quickly.
- kshacker 4y agoBut you can use the same track to run high speed rail going the full distance as well as a lower speed train going only half the way (or it could be high speed too just with an extra stop).
- runarberg 4y agoI’m confused doesn’t the 101 corridor go down the coast between Salinas and San Luis Obispo? And doesn’t the existing Coastal Starlight go along it? I’ve actually taken that train. It takes 12 hours. A lot of that is padding because of the unreliability of the tracks, but also because the route is really tight. I doubt you would be able to improve the tracks there such that 5-6 hours would be possible, let alone the 2 hours through the valley.
- gedy 4y ago
- Gibbon1 4y agoMuch of the work in the Central Valley incorporates grade separation for the existing freight rail lines. So they have a small win every time they replace an at grade crossing with an overpass.
- jeffbee 4y agoIt means that Stu Flashman's lawsuits are all dead, and that was the main roadblock the project faces.
- lklkl30104 4y agoAny disruptive technology for environmental impact assessments?
- jfoutz 4y agovoting
- claytongulick 4y ago
- culi 4y agoThe exact problem of California's High-Speed Rail is that individuals (as well as local municipalities) keep suing them. The original timeline and budget would probably not have been too far off if it weren't for this The current route has been modified a bunch to appease local municipalities that want, or don't want, part of the tracks or a stop near them. Maybe that can be stopped by voting, but the wealthy individuals will continue to sue and force more expensive litigative battles like the one that resulted in this environmental assessment needing to be cleared
- Wowfunhappy 4y agoLegislators can pass laws which make lawsuits easier or harder.
- AlbertCory 4y ago> individuals (as well as local municipalities) keep suing them OK, so do you have a solution to that?
- old_hat 4y agoPass laws which provide less grounds for suing these kinds of projects, or at least group them into one class action lawsuit instead of a smattering of actions. Provide abridged proceedings for infrastructure projects so judgements can be rendered more quickly. I'm thinking things like judge only trials, etc.
- baggy_trough 4y agoThe whole thing seems like a self licking ice cream cone for consultants and construction firms. I’ll be amazed if anything useful staggers across the finish line decades from now.
- lazide 4y agoJust in time for the state to declare bankruptcy again!
- jonchang 4y agoWhen has the state declared bankruptcy?
- throwaway09223 4y agoStates can't declare bankruptcy, but California was insolvent a bit over a decade ago. I still have an "IOU" from those years sent by the state instead of the money I was owed due to overpaying state taxes. The state was essentially bankrupt for a signification time, even though no proceedings took place.
- Thorrez 4y agoDid you end up getting the money you were owed?
- lazide 4y agoA bunch of the local counties never did.
- throwaway09223 4y agoYes. It was a warrant which returned a couple percent interest on the balance. It said I could take it to a bank and cash it like a check in a few months, which I did. I guess it was a bit like an involuntary bond.
- deleted 4y ago
- matchagaucho 4y ago"420 of 500 miles now cleared" Any bets on how long those last 80 miles take to get environmentally cleared?
- runarberg 4y agoAccording to their 2022 business plan, sometime in 2023/2024. There are two sections left to clear: Palmdale to Burbank, and LA to Anaheim (they cleared Burbank to LA earlier this year if I remember correctly): > Our last two project sections, Palmdale to Burbank and Los Angeles to Anaheim, will be advanced in 2023/2024 https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/2022-Business-Plan-FINAL-A11Y.pdf https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/2022-Business-...