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That is an absolutely terrible, myopic analysis. Instead of saying that our nation's education system is not adequately preparing students for college, it's ma

That is an absolutely terrible, myopic analysis. Instead of saying that our nation's education system is not adequately preparing students for college, it's making the argument that college is taking advantage of unprepared students. That makes no sense whatsoever.

kingkongrevenge 18y ago
> it's making the argument that college is taking advantage of unprepared students. How is that inaccurate? They are allowing people to blow tens of thousands of dollars knowing it is for naught. It is fraudulent to admit many of these people. It's not so different from suckering fat people into your diet program. The biggest problem with college education is the inflated prices, which have been caused by the subsidization of the student loan market. As the student loan market dies universities will be forced to cut costs and tuition DRAMATICALLY. Silver lining on every cloud...
- nradov 18y ago
  Exactly. It's much like the housing market: government-subsidized financing was supposed to help poor people purchase homes and advance the "ownership society". Instead it mostly just drove up prices. College education prices have been rising faster than the rate of inflation for years. The only reason they've been able to get away with it is the corresponding increases in financial aid. If the subsidies get cut back they'll have to get some financial discipline. For a start they could quit wasting money on unnecessary gold-plated facilities. You don't need fancy dorms, classrooms, and labs to deliver a solid undergraduate education.
tptacek 18y ago
It doesn't simply say that students are unprepared; it says that colleges do a bad job of teaching, because they staff teaching jobs with people who are trained and competant only to do research work. When it asserts that colleges take advantage of students, it backs it up with arguments like "students end up in large lecture classes" or classes taught by grad students.
- decode 18y ago
  In my experience, there is a large gap between the smaller, liberal arts "teaching" college and the large, research institution. I did my Bachelor's at the former and had great teachers and small classes (no classes with more than 30 students in 4 years). I did my Master's at a Research I university and there the undergrads are put into huge classes taught by professors that couldn't care less about them and grad students who are overworked and underpaid. Of course, at the graduate level the tables turn in the student's favor again: the Research I university offers small classes taught by some of the foremost experts in the world.
- hugh 18y ago
  I think this is a problem with the students as well. Kindergarteners need to be taught by people who are trained for teaching. Eleven-year-olds need to be taught by people who are trained for teaching. But by the time you get to the the university level, you're supposed to be clever enough that you can pick up a subject just by having one of the world's super-experts in the field stand up and ramble in front of you for a while. If you can't learn without hand-holding, you don't belong at university.
bbgm 18y ago
The quality and level of education in school in the US is somewhat pitiful. On the other hand, at least in grad school, I found the level to be very satisfactory and pushing my own intellectual needs and interests. I didn't do an undergrad in the states, but would do one 100 times out of 100. Would not be where I am without my education, and I like where that is.

kingkongrevenge 18y ago

> it's making the argument that college is taking advantage of unprepared students. How is that inaccurate? They are allowing people to blow tens of thousands of dollars knowing it is for naught. It is fraudulent to admit many of these people. It's not so different from suckering fat people into your diet program. The biggest problem with college education is the inflated prices, which have been caused by the subsidization of the student loan market. As the student loan market dies universities will be forced to cut costs and tuition DRAMATICALLY. Silver lining on every cloud...

nradov 18y ago
Exactly. It's much like the housing market: government-subsidized financing was supposed to help poor people purchase homes and advance the "ownership society". Instead it mostly just drove up prices. College education prices have been rising faster than the rate of inflation for years. The only reason they've been able to get away with it is the corresponding increases in financial aid. If the subsidies get cut back they'll have to get some financial discipline. For a start they could quit wasting money on unnecessary gold-plated facilities. You don't need fancy dorms, classrooms, and labs to deliver a solid undergraduate education.

tptacek 18y ago

It doesn't simply say that students are unprepared; it says that colleges do a bad job of teaching, because they staff teaching jobs with people who are trained and competant only to do research work. When it asserts that colleges take advantage of students, it backs it up with arguments like "students end up in large lecture classes" or classes taught by grad students.

decode 18y ago
In my experience, there is a large gap between the smaller, liberal arts "teaching" college and the large, research institution. I did my Bachelor's at the former and had great teachers and small classes (no classes with more than 30 students in 4 years). I did my Master's at a Research I university and there the undergrads are put into huge classes taught by professors that couldn't care less about them and grad students who are overworked and underpaid. Of course, at the graduate level the tables turn in the student's favor again: the Research I university offers small classes taught by some of the foremost experts in the world.
hugh 18y ago
I think this is a problem with the students as well. Kindergarteners need to be taught by people who are trained for teaching. Eleven-year-olds need to be taught by people who are trained for teaching. But by the time you get to the the university level, you're supposed to be clever enough that you can pick up a subject just by having one of the world's super-experts in the field stand up and ramble in front of you for a while. If you can't learn without hand-holding, you don't belong at university.

bbgm 18y ago

The quality and level of education in school in the US is somewhat pitiful. On the other hand, at least in grad school, I found the level to be very satisfactory and pushing my own intellectual needs and interests. I didn't do an undergrad in the states, but would do one 100 times out of 100. Would not be where I am without my education, and I like where that is.