13 ms·

It wasn't for nothing

644 points by mbakke 4y ago

Shocka1 4y ago
Feels good seeing so many people feel the same way. I've been working on an algorithmic trading project for a few years now and at times there have been speedbumps where I ask myself what I'm doing when I could be getting a lot more sleep or doing other hobbies like fishing, golfing, riding MTB, etc... I would add that little wins here and there are extremely motivating to keep pushing. For example, I recently started digging back into trigonometry after many years of being away. It's been extremely satisfying re-learning basic trig functions for an actual purpose, rather than simply solving a math problem.
margarina72 4y ago
this is actually awesome
- metadat 4y ago
  Yes, a wonderful, inspiring personal story the author has generously shared with us. Cheers to you mbakke, keep on truckin'!
behnamoh 4y ago
I liked the article, I wish there were more of these. I've always wondered "who" are the developers who contribute to the open-source projects that I use without much hassle? Why do they do it? How does their life look like? And most importantly, are they OK?
- johnny22 4y ago
  > And most importantly, are they OK? i wanna know this too!
  - mbakke 4y ago
    Author here, I appreciate the concern! Actually this blog [post] came about by stopping up and looking at my core values. Earlier this year I decided to quit alcohol for good and suddenly found myself struggling both socially and professionally. Now I'm slowly regaining control of my life and felt inspired to solidify my gratitude to the Guix community which played no small role. So yes, I'm OK and getting better every day, thanks :-)
- david_allison 4y ago
  Let's go! I'm currently living rent-free in an unoccupied student room in Edinburgh (it's out of term here, and I'm living with friends). I'm spending most of this month enjoying the Edinburgh Fringe Festival[0] (I saw 7 shows yesterday). The remainder of my time goes on Open Source/contracting work. Due to the Fringe, this month is unusual and I'm not satisfied with my open source activity: it's mostly code reviews, force-multiplier work, mentoring and small changes, rather than larger architectural work or features. Financially: In the UK, the minimum wage is £9.30/hour. This is around $20k/year. Open Source work nets me between $10 and $1.50/h via Open Collective (donation funded), plus <$100/m monthly from Patreon/GitHub Sponsors. I have a financial buffer from previous employment and my main aim is to avoid drawing into this buffer. I contract on a part-time basis, and this fills the income gap. I've previously listed my hopes for the next month[1]. I want a multi-monitor setup for my next 2-week project, and that's not feasible to travel with. Am I OK? I am for now. Although my lifestyle offers me a lot of flexibility, it isn't feasible to start a family or hit the traditional 'life goals' while living in this manner. It's a shame to have to fundraise for small personal projects (<$10k), rather than funding them yourself. I'm making financial sacrifices to be where I am and have an irrational worry about what the move back to traditional employment would look like in terms of salary, perceived experience, and coming to terms with the reduction of personal and creative freedom. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Festival_Fringe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Festival_Fringe [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32312955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32312955
  - dannyobrien 4y ago
    Do you have a link to your sponsorship/donation pages?
    - david_allison 4y ago
      https://opencollective.com/ankidroid https://opencollective.com/ankidroid
  - woojoo666 4y ago
    I was amazed that you were making $10/hr as an open source contributor, and I looked at your profile and found that you develop AnkiDroid. That's a wildly successful project, props
- archi42 4y ago
  Good question. Maybe you should do an Ask HN for that? (Don't forget to check the search in case there already was one).
xupybd 4y ago
I'd love to know how the authors financials work. It sounds like a dream to work on something just because it's fun and fulfilling. I have mouths to feed and that dominates much of my career choices. I'm in a small town in a small country so earning a FAANG salary is not an option. I can't save up and go work on a dream project.
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  If you don’t have mouths to feed then options are massive and life is cheap. For example remote work live in south america type of thing.
  - armchairhacker 4y ago
    Is it really though? I imagine way more people would love to spend all their free time on their hobbies, and would sacrifice some of the luxuries of the modern world, but work crap jobs. And most of these people don't have kids. See: the amount of miserable people on Reddit and elsewhere.
    - TAForObvReasons 4y ago
      If you have good relations with your parents, you can grind away in their basement. For obvious reasons, many people cannot or do not want to take that approach
      - t43562 4y ago
        Not all countries have a social stigma attached to living with parents and a degree of parental interference/influence in your adult life is accepted. Perhaps this is because of high interest rates - can't just get out of dodge and take a loan on a house.
    - quickthrower2 4y ago
      I don't think it is a money thing, but flexibility. Working 4 days for 80% pay is seen as a privilege. It shouldn't be. And the part time friendly jobs (supermarket checkout, Uber, etc.) don't pay well per hour. One workaround is to contract, 6 months contract then 6 months off. If you want to work your entire life on your hobby without worrying about how to source money at all ... well that requires being born rich most likely. I think for most people the blocker is themselves and societal expectations. "People will think you are a bum" is more of a blocker than "How much money left in account". Especially for people reading this comment.
exolymph 4y ago
I'm not a developer but I totally relate to this. Most of my creative pursuits are weird, niche, sometimes avant-garde. If I didn't make my artifacts, nobody else would, and it is so intrinsically rewarding to see my visions instantiated, even if they pale in comparison to my first imagining of what they might be. Because I have fringe-y interests, most people don't necessarily "get" it. (Probably true of everyone else on HN as well.) But the people who do get it, I found them on the internet, and I thank God for that.
- behnamoh 4y ago
  Does it bother you if people don't discover your work and don't use it? I've always wanted to do something of value that lasts, and many times I was discouraged by lack of interest from other people.
  - xphos 4y ago
    So like I am sad however you never know how far you are to something taking off so you have to persist odds are that people won't hear about that cool thing your building for a long time like multiple years. Before than it's really hard to gage how popular your tool or thing will be. There is also something to getting you software to a level where you show it to others (the sooner the better). If you don't showcase your stuff odds are people won't find it.
  - peterangular 4y ago
    Not op - answering personally. The moment you have an audience for something it significantly changes the experience. Doesn't matter if it's music, development, cooking... if other humans are involved on the receiving end it makes it different. For a lot of us, we're very protective of our creative endeavors. And, lots of the time the journey we're taking is one of vulnerability (learning, creatively extending ourselves, taking risks). Then there's the criticism and critique. People can objectively be pretty awful. It doesn't matter if it's making my own software tooling, or a song, or fleshing out a new idea... I just don't want to hear anyone's opinion - I want to focus on being productive in what I'm doing. I've often found that isolating is way more productive than trying to ship to an audience. If I need other people I don't pull them in as an audience, I pull them in as an advisor and/or teacher: contracting out a code review, or going to guitar lessons. If/when this stuff I created dies with me that's OK. I'm a fart in the wind anyway, and I don't care about silly things like "legacy" - I just need to create stuff to optimize and improve the world around me. And, sometimes I create stuff just because it feels good. It's a selfish endeavor sure, but I'd have it no other way.
flatbub 4y ago
Nice! Bravo for your contributions! After using and contributing NixOS for 3 years, I appreciated that I understood far more how Guix worked after just one 1-2 weeks of using it. Guix introduces abstractions, such as operating-system that has defined fields that make it clearer what structures are being built. NixOS, on the other hand, does not have such abstractions (or perhaps just not as well documented/discoverable). Alas, I found Guix a bit slow and a bit difficult to contribute to (mailing list workflow, and fewer reviewers), and don't have the capacity to help improve that, and so I'm back to NixOS. Guix is tackling multiple fronts: a blob-free kernel, a non systemd init, mailing list development, bootstrapability, no non-free software, high standards for commit messages. If they reduced the number of fronts they were tackling, they might increase contributions, but the current contributors seem to value their existing fronts. That's fair.
- xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
  > Guix introduces abstractions, such as operating-system that has defined fields that make it clearer what structures are being built. NixOS, on the other hand, does not have such abstractions (or perhaps just not as well documented/discoverable). NixOS had plenty of abstractions, so I don't quite understand this. All of NixOS is a compilation of abstractions for building an operating system environment. Could you elaborate on what abstractions are not present? > Guix is tackling multiple fronts: a blob-free kernel, a non systemd init, mailing list development, bootstrapability, no non-free software, high standards for commit messages. Except for the last one, all of these are noble achievements perhaps within a subset of an ecosystem, like Nix or Guix, but the deliberate and unwavering stapling of these goals to the ecosystem makes Guix unpalatable.
  - flatbub 4y ago
    AFAICT, NixOS has no equivalent to the type https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/operating_002dsystem-Reference.html https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/operating_002dsyste... , which makes it clear what an OS contains, and allows you to query the OS. Instead, NixOS has many options, whose only structure is that they form a tree. When trying to understand a host, it's unclear how to begin to analyze this tree: no option is at a higher level of abstraction than any other, or if it is, it's difficult to infer that. Arguably I could just look at my host's config, and that will tell me what this host does, but it doesn't. It actually describes my how machine differs from the default NixOS machine. (How do I learn what a default NixOS machine do? Query for all services "enabled" option is set to true?) With Guix, I follow the code: how is this host's OS "services" field populated.
autopilot23 4y ago
very wholesome post
zachwill 4y ago
Great article, Marius! I can absolutely relate to this.
hardwaresofton 4y ago
Thank you for making Guix -- it's the only one os-as-code that I've tried and intend to use. I don't think DSLs are the right answer (a la Nix) -- and the fact that Guix is written in an infinitely malleable fully featured programming language is awesome IMO.
sweetbitter 4y ago
@dang Am I banned from replies? Why? Because I comment through Tor? Is there a better way to ask this without polluting a comment section?
- kirubakaran 4y ago
  You could email hn@ycombinator.com
- xupybd 4y ago
  Have a look in the FAQ there is a comment about banned IP addresses. I think Tor might be giving you an IP that has been abusive in the past. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4761102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4761102 To contact Dang the best option, I suspect, is to email hn@ycombinator.com
- mkl 4y ago
  There's also a limit on how quickly you can reply to a new comment. The reply link is missing at first, but you can get it on the comment's page by clicking the timestamp.
  - sweetbitter 4y ago
    Thank you.
LanternLight83 4y ago
Guix has been the only distro I run on my PC and Laptop for some time now, and will be what I depoy on my home server when I eventually get it back up and running (really looking forward to learning services and containerization inside and out). The ease of access to the source tree, the freedom and hackability, all come together to enable my habit of getting in over my head. I've got some patches languishing that I've been meaning to come back to, and this post reassures and inspires me. Thanks for putting your thoughts out there.
ReactiveJelly 4y ago
I hope I find a home like that for myself one day.
xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
I like the blog post and I'm happy for the author, truly. But Guix doesn't sit well with me, and I rarely see this discussed: The Guix zealotry will be their undoing, and frankly this is where Nix shines. I can use Nix at work, at home, with family, with vendors, with binary blobs, on macOS. The community tries very hard to help. With Guix, sure, there's stuff like nonguix, but take a gander at this from the nonguix readme: > Please do NOT promote this repository on any official Guix communication channels, such as their mailing lists or IRC channel, even in response to support requests! This is to show respect for the Guix project’s strict policy against recommending nonfree software, and to avoid any unnecessary hostility. Guix has truly noble goals (in classic GNU fashion) but they're ultimately misguided. Yes sure it's great that it's pure and reproducible and whatever else but if I can't get stuff done with it it's useless. Actually useless. The standard encouraged response to "Hi I'm a new Guix user and I was wondering how I can run steam?" is roughly equivalent to "Go fuck yourself" and I'm just amazed by that. If Guix ever becomes mainstream, it will be in spite of their efforts. In the meantime, I'm betting on Nix.
- caslon 4y ago
  Have you considered the idea that it might just not be for you? There are plenty of workflows that don't require proprietary software, and adding proprietary software breaks a lot of the point of Guix, along with throwing more work onto the backs of maintainers. You wouldn't expect a bunch of people giving away a vegetarian cookbook to respond super well to, "This is all fine and great and all, but how can I adapt this recipe to grilled dog?" Especially not after saying their project was pointless since you couldn't easily use it to shish kebab your cat.
  - ivalm 4y ago
    > but how can I adapt this recipe to grilled dog > couldn't easily use it to shish kebab your cat This seems like an unnecessarily hostile response, kind of inline with what the OP mentioned.
    - caslon 4y ago
beckingz 4y ago
Good for the author! Find a thing that works for you, make it work for you and the people around you, win!
reilly3000 4y ago
I really appreciate this post and how it highlights the power of becoming involved in occupation. I use that term in the context of the fact that my spouse is an Occupational Therapist by trade. In that field, the term occupation refers to a collection of activities of daily living, not a "job" per se. Rather than seeing patients through a framework of diagnosis or disability, they look at activities and people's ability to perform them, and intervene where there is lack. In practice that may involve helping an amputee learn how to put on socks, or helping an autistic child participate in education. More broadly, a central philosophy of their field is that meaningful occupation is a powerful motivator that has cascading effects across the many component activities in somebody's daily life. OP's post described how becoming involved as a Guix contributor effectively organized and motivated other areas of their life as well. The fact that we all are here hanging out on a VC's forum tends to color our idea of what value means. I think this post inspires that there is value to not only the community but also the individual as well in just "doing cool stuff".
- chrisweekly 4y ago
  Yes! See also the Japanese concept of "ikigai", which helps explain why many people's ideas equating traditional retirement with happiness are so misguided.
  - drewzero1 4y ago
    I'm at a point in my (young adult) life where I'm starting to think really seriously about planning for retirement, and I'm finding that the idea of just "putting my feet up" at a certain age actually disgusts me. I work with a lot of retired people and while I don't want to stay in this particular job/company/field until I die, I do hope to keep doing meaningful work in some capacity into my twilight years.
- tetha 4y ago
  This reminds me of something someone told me about hobbies, and becoming good at something: If you want to become really good at something, find simple enjoyment in doing the thing, and not in other people or the results. Like, don't become a metal bass player because you want to play in a band to perform at Wacken. That will fail and disappoint. Instead, find enjoyment in rhythm kicking people like a damn horse, or find enjoyment in how different rhythm structures can be, and sounds an instrument can make. For me, it's becoming really interesting to understand how different fundamental rhythms of different genres are.
alphachloride 4y ago
https://guix.gnu.org/en/about/ https://guix.gnu.org/en/about/ > Guix is an advanced distribution of the GNU operating system developed by the GNU Project—which respects the freedom of computer users. For anyone looking for more context. I did not know anything about the what and why and who of this post. Having read it, I like the author's point of view. Working on it is good for his well-being. That's more than enough reason to pursue it.
- fezfight 4y ago
  Sounds like a rad hobby, to be honest. Good for the author and thanks to you for framing it like this.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  In fact, I’d say there can be no better reason.
flobosg 4y ago
Great post. It reminded me a bit of this one from the creator of SerenityOS: https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-SerenityOS-full-time/ https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-Ser...
- Gatsky 4y ago
  Is there something about writing an OS that helps recovery from addiction? Or perhaps the causality is reversed.
- e12e 4y ago
  So in a somewhat similar vein we have SerenityOS, GNU Guix and TempleOS (by the late Davis). Might be room for some research in this area?
  - mbakke 4y ago
    This makes it sound like I'm the founder or main developer of Guix which is not at all the case. I certainly would have been worse off mentally without Guix as a creative or "OCD" outlet however.
metafunctor 4y ago
Wow. These reasons match exactly why I've built open source software in the past (now running on your iPhone). Fun. Rewarding. Feels important. Pure. Maybe didn't save my life, but given a different start, definitely plausible.
- InnerGargoyle 4y ago
  didnt know what you built, but certainly fullfilling for you, i guess.
inciampati 4y ago
Guix has been utterly transformative for my scientific work. It lets me maintain a lab notebook (my shell history) with perfect description of what software versions commands I ran used. I don't upstream much. It's just packages I maintain in my own channel that support this. On a multi user HPC server environment, it's simply ideal. Every user can have their own system setup. Love it.
- slgeorge 4y ago
  I've been using Guix on top of Ubuntu so that I can have the latest versions of some applications I care about, while keeping the core Ubuntu which works well with my hardare. Similar to your comment the ability to see exactly what is installed, with repeatability is fantastic. For my personal use-case the ability to install an application in parallel to Ubuntu's is really useful.
Linda703 4y ago
[dead]
slgeorge 4y ago
Finding that "intrinsic motivation" to work on a hobby is something that really helps to keep you going. Often we're extrinsically motivated by others praise, social media likes ete. While praise is no bad thing, it doesn't always happen or you can be knocked off course by negative feedback. I'm often amazed by the intrinsic motivation and long track records of people working on open source.
meta-level 4y ago
Just reading "The Little Book Of Ikigai" - this post reads like a rewording of the most important aspects of Ikigai :) Sounds all quite familiar to me..
tux 4y ago
Thank you to Marius Bakke for this post. I can relate, this is exactly why I've been doing my own project since 2016 even when not many know about it or use it or even supported it. I've learned so much from doing this project from scratch and made some very good friends since day one. And @behnamoh "Does it bother you if people don't discover your work and don't use it?" If I may... I personally don't care if people use my project(s), as long as I do =) It's what makes you personally happy that matters ^_^ I'm actually working actively on v2.0 of the project without much support at all, just because I use it daily myself =) Edit: I think that the best project(s) you can do in life is the ones you use yourself the most. When you are both creator and user of your project(s) you have unique perspective. Thanks to all for reading my comment.
zelphirkalt 4y ago
I can confirm, that some of the free software projects and mailing lists and IRC channels are really good learning environments. Since I have started being sometimes active on the Guile and a bit rarer the Guix mailing list, I have learned a ton of stuff. People are usually helpful and it helps discovering gaps in ones knowledge or things one got wrong. Also good for learning about many cool tools.
oxplot 4y ago
> With Guix I finally felt home The core reason why I develop my own solutions to certain problems.
unixhero 4y ago
And let's all be honest here: There is nothing else to do in Norway unless you're a active sportsman during the 9 winter months. There are few parades Few social gatherings Little social cohesion No reason to seek up a public place to randomly meet people, because people shun random social contact There is only binge drinking and a social walking alone in the cities Same with Sweden and Finland. As opposed to living in sunny country a south of the equator. Living in Norway is a blessing and a curse.
- karamanolev 4y ago
  Are you saying that as a nordic country resident or is that an external observation? If it's first hand experience, do you care to elaborate on the differences and why you think they exist?
  - intothemild 4y ago
    I'm an Australian immigrant living in Norway for the last 12 years. The post is partially true. The parts about social cohesion are the partially true bit. Norwegians are not that great at meeting new people outside of their established groups.. that's it. Everything else in the post is not true in the slightest.
- arcade79 4y ago
  I have yet to see the winter last 9 months. Typically starts in November and ends in March. And nothing to do during the winter? Cozy up by the fireplace, pop a bottle of wine with a loved one. Read books. Make delicious food. Prepare for xmas, visit the various xmas markets, then there is new year which is a blast. And let's not forget the julebord-season during late November and first half of December! January and February are dreary. I'll admit that. Then there is winter vacation. You don't need to be a sportsman to enjoy pulling on a pair of cross county skis, head out with friends and family and create a nice campfire somewhere to grill hot dogs over. Don't forget the oranges and kvikklunch! Rent an airbnb somewhere with good access to either downhill slopes or cross-county trips. Spend the evening playing board games with friends, drinking and having it cozy by the fireplace again. Late march / early April is springtime, and everyone is hungry for the sun. Easter arrives at some point. Again an excellent opportunity to go to some cottage and enjoy some time off. But yeah, January and February are dreary.
nonrandomstring 4y ago
Read together, some comments seem to reveal the poles of a moral landscape in the hacker community: > Guix saved my life... finally feeling some stability in life; and a desire to explore other creative outlets such as blogging (hi!), cooking, growing sustainable foods; and healthy activities like climbing and skiing. None of this would be possible without Guix, > If Guix ever becomes mainstream, it will be in spite of their efforts. What's behind resentment of the sacrifices made by others on a journey to modest personal success and happiness? I think that many of us are deeply unhappy with our jobs. For moral reasons. The high salaries aren't enough. But there isn't the courage to take a plunge into something crazy, risky - the spiritual transformation so deeply craved for. If you have "mouths to feed", and think that is stopping you, try talking to your partner and dependents. You may be surprised that they love you, want you to be happy, and support your projects.
- xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
  I do not at all resent the attitude. I resent that Guix is presented as a serious alternative to, say, Nix, within this community. I will be the first person to appreciate the efforts of folks working on Open and Free Software, it's really noble. The world would be a better place if all our software was Free, but that's not the world we live in today. I wish them all the luck and success in the world, but wanting adoption while also shunning (guilting?) your user base when confronted with practical feedback is not a healthy attitude.
  - nonrandomstring 4y ago
    I picked out your comment and didn't mean that to reflect personally on you or assume your deeper intentions, sorry. Yours and few other comments seemed to really jar against what felt like a very sincere and open post by the OP. I'm sure you do appreciate the efforts while simply disagreeing with the ideology. Fair enough.
    - xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
      I appreciate the response, no hard feelings. Your take was fair. I definitely don't want to dog pile on what is otherwise a warm spirited submission, but something about Guix is grinding my gears! In hindsight, this submission is the wrong forum for such a rant.
marcus_holmes 4y ago
(Part of) my path out of depression was committing to something bigger than myself. Giving more than I received to a community. In the end, it not only helped me climb out of my black hole, it also rewarded me in ways I never expected.
noduerme 4y ago
There's a point, or should be one, where you realize your hobby is actually your vocation - because you love being excellent at your craft. Loving what you're building is worth more than all the money in the world.
amelius 4y ago
Article prompted me to take Guix for a test-drive (as a user, not yet as a package-writer), but I'm running into some peculiar behavior. Installing Python with "guix install python" tells me: The following package will be installed: python 3.8.2 But then it starts downloading tcl-8.6.10 tk-8.6.10 python-3.8.2-tk I find this strange, because Python is most often used without Tk (or Tcl) and I don't want to waste disk space. Also, it installs pip3. But you can't use pip3 because you will get: ERROR: Could not install packages due to an EnvironmentError: [Errno 30] Read-only file system: '/gnu/store/...' I guess Python packages should be installed using Guix too. (EDIT: yes, you have to install them like "guix install python-numpy" etc.) Imho, this is a pity because it means one package manager (Guix) is circumventing another (pip), and thus wasting the effort that went into building and supporting it.
- antihero 4y ago
  Historically I think the tk UI lib has been considered the always available UI library in “batteries included” python. You’re getting the permissions error as by default pip installs system-wide, for local stuff use the local option or a virtualenv.
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  > Imho, this is a pity because it means one package manager (Guix) is circumventing another (pip), and thus wasting the effort that went into building and supporting it. The thing is, language package managers may work well for software written solely in that language, but that breaks down real fast when any of them have native dependencies (and many do). Guix is intended to be a universal Linux package manager that can handle packages written in any language on any distro. (It does this better for some languages than others, admittedly.) I’ve experienced enough very broken Python environments that I appreciate only having one package manager to worry about. I wouldn’t say it’s wasting the effort of Python packaging devs though; it does have an importer for pip packages, so the standard Python packaging work makes it easier to import pip packages into Guix.
  - dane-pgp 4y ago
    [flagged]
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
Good on ya. I wish you luck. Personally, I don't have a use for the OS, but that is no reflection on its quality or usefulness. I just play on a different jungle gym. Writing an OS is not for the faint of heart. Lots of moving parts. I've done it (on a much, much smaller scale -embedded assembly). Great way to learn the ins and outs of pretty much any software pattern out there. I see the usual smattering of "it's not a real software project because ... <insert metric here>," and understand where that comes from. But I've been writing full production-Quality open-source "hobby" projects for over a decade. The polish, documentation, testing, and maintenance are part of the "fun" for me. I absolutely couldn't care any less, if no one uses my software; in fact, I prefer it that way, as I don't need to worry about moving anyone's cheese, if I decide to make changes. I use my software in my own work.
fearthetelomere 4y ago
Once you find the things that anchor you physically, it makes it much easier to sail where you want to sail and stay when you want to stay. No matter what passes around me or what happens in life, having these anchors about myself lifts the good times to be more enjoyable and the bad that much more surmountable. I'm happy for you.
thenerdhead 4y ago
This is a beautiful post of self-actualization. So wholesome that one major thing in their life can change their perspective over six years.
zach_garwood 4y ago
I want to find this peace, too.
deleted 4y ago
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bhelkey 4y ago
Very off topic but I am curious about Guix: > It's reassuring to know that all packages are bootstrapped and not just some random binary blobs. Surely there must be some binary blobs, no?
- rekado 4y ago
  There are some binary blobs, yes. Some stem from the early days. Before Mes and the reduced binary seed (see the Guix manual for details) we used to have a selected set of bootstrap binaries (e.g. statically linked bash, tar, gzip, a big fat gcc, etc). With Mes the bootstrap seed is merely a couple of bytes that can feasibly be audited. Reproducible builds make it possible to audit the results of this early bootstrap. Some binary blobs remain: for example, there's a blob for an arbitrary version of the Glasgow Haskell Compiler, because our collective attempts to bootstrap it from source have failed. (I have previously published some of my experiences in attempting to find a bootstrap path.) Another blob is a bootstrap binary for the Pascal compiler; there's another one for one of the Scheme implementations, I think. But for new packages we generally won't accept pre-built binaries. Our Java packages, for example, are completely built from source. Back then I worked on the Java bootstrap from source; we're building the first Java compiler and the first Java libraries from C (jikes + GNU classpath) and work our way up to the latest OpenJDK. Java libraries are also built completely from source --- we won't accept pre-built Jars (unlike Nix). This is probably the primary reason why Guix has fewer Java packages than Nix. The Rust bootstrap (on x86_64) is also done from C.
0prueba0 4y ago
prueba
0prueba0 4y ago
prueba2

644 points by mbakke 4y ago

Feels good seeing so many people feel the same way. I've been working on an algorithmic trading project for a few years now and at times there have been speedbumps where I ask myself what I'm doing when I could be getting a lot more sleep or doing other hobbies like fishing, golfing, riding MTB, etc... I would add that little wins here and there are extremely motivating to keep pushing. For example, I recently started digging back into trigonometry after many years of being away. It's been extremely satisfying re-learning basic trig functions for an actual purpose, rather than simply solving a math problem.

margarina72 4y ago

this is actually awesome

metadat 4y ago
Yes, a wonderful, inspiring personal story the author has generously shared with us. Cheers to you mbakke, keep on truckin'!

behnamoh 4y ago

I liked the article, I wish there were more of these. I've always wondered "who" are the developers who contribute to the open-source projects that I use without much hassle? Why do they do it? How does their life look like? And most importantly, are they OK?

johnny22 4y ago
> And most importantly, are they OK? i wanna know this too!
- mbakke 4y ago
  Author here, I appreciate the concern! Actually this blog [post] came about by stopping up and looking at my core values. Earlier this year I decided to quit alcohol for good and suddenly found myself struggling both socially and professionally. Now I'm slowly regaining control of my life and felt inspired to solidify my gratitude to the Guix community which played no small role. So yes, I'm OK and getting better every day, thanks :-)
david_allison 4y ago
Let's go! I'm currently living rent-free in an unoccupied student room in Edinburgh (it's out of term here, and I'm living with friends). I'm spending most of this month enjoying the Edinburgh Fringe Festival[0] (I saw 7 shows yesterday). The remainder of my time goes on Open Source/contracting work. Due to the Fringe, this month is unusual and I'm not satisfied with my open source activity: it's mostly code reviews, force-multiplier work, mentoring and small changes, rather than larger architectural work or features. Financially: In the UK, the minimum wage is £9.30/hour. This is around $20k/year. Open Source work nets me between $10 and $1.50/h via Open Collective (donation funded), plus <$100/m monthly from Patreon/GitHub Sponsors. I have a financial buffer from previous employment and my main aim is to avoid drawing into this buffer. I contract on a part-time basis, and this fills the income gap. I've previously listed my hopes for the next month[1]. I want a multi-monitor setup for my next 2-week project, and that's not feasible to travel with. Am I OK? I am for now. Although my lifestyle offers me a lot of flexibility, it isn't feasible to start a family or hit the traditional 'life goals' while living in this manner. It's a shame to have to fundraise for small personal projects (<$10k), rather than funding them yourself. I'm making financial sacrifices to be where I am and have an irrational worry about what the move back to traditional employment would look like in terms of salary, perceived experience, and coming to terms with the reduction of personal and creative freedom. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Festival_Fringe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Festival_Fringe [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32312955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32312955
- dannyobrien 4y ago
  Do you have a link to your sponsorship/donation pages?
  - david_allison 4y ago
    https://opencollective.com/ankidroid https://opencollective.com/ankidroid
- woojoo666 4y ago
  I was amazed that you were making $10/hr as an open source contributor, and I looked at your profile and found that you develop AnkiDroid. That's a wildly successful project, props
archi42 4y ago
Good question. Maybe you should do an Ask HN for that? (Don't forget to check the search in case there already was one).

xupybd 4y ago

I'd love to know how the authors financials work. It sounds like a dream to work on something just because it's fun and fulfilling. I have mouths to feed and that dominates much of my career choices. I'm in a small town in a small country so earning a FAANG salary is not an option. I can't save up and go work on a dream project.

quickthrower2 4y ago
If you don’t have mouths to feed then options are massive and life is cheap. For example remote work live in south america type of thing.
- armchairhacker 4y ago
  Is it really though? I imagine way more people would love to spend all their free time on their hobbies, and would sacrifice some of the luxuries of the modern world, but work crap jobs. And most of these people don't have kids. See: the amount of miserable people on Reddit and elsewhere.
  - TAForObvReasons 4y ago
    If you have good relations with your parents, you can grind away in their basement. For obvious reasons, many people cannot or do not want to take that approach
    - t43562 4y ago
      Not all countries have a social stigma attached to living with parents and a degree of parental interference/influence in your adult life is accepted. Perhaps this is because of high interest rates - can't just get out of dodge and take a loan on a house.
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    I don't think it is a money thing, but flexibility. Working 4 days for 80% pay is seen as a privilege. It shouldn't be. And the part time friendly jobs (supermarket checkout, Uber, etc.) don't pay well per hour. One workaround is to contract, 6 months contract then 6 months off. If you want to work your entire life on your hobby without worrying about how to source money at all ... well that requires being born rich most likely. I think for most people the blocker is themselves and societal expectations. "People will think you are a bum" is more of a blocker than "How much money left in account". Especially for people reading this comment.

exolymph 4y ago

I'm not a developer but I totally relate to this. Most of my creative pursuits are weird, niche, sometimes avant-garde. If I didn't make my artifacts, nobody else would, and it is so intrinsically rewarding to see my visions instantiated, even if they pale in comparison to my first imagining of what they might be. Because I have fringe-y interests, most people don't necessarily "get" it. (Probably true of everyone else on HN as well.) But the people who do get it, I found them on the internet, and I thank God for that.

behnamoh 4y ago
Does it bother you if people don't discover your work and don't use it? I've always wanted to do something of value that lasts, and many times I was discouraged by lack of interest from other people.
- xphos 4y ago
  So like I am sad however you never know how far you are to something taking off so you have to persist odds are that people won't hear about that cool thing your building for a long time like multiple years. Before than it's really hard to gage how popular your tool or thing will be. There is also something to getting you software to a level where you show it to others (the sooner the better). If you don't showcase your stuff odds are people won't find it.
- peterangular 4y ago
  Not op - answering personally. The moment you have an audience for something it significantly changes the experience. Doesn't matter if it's music, development, cooking... if other humans are involved on the receiving end it makes it different. For a lot of us, we're very protective of our creative endeavors. And, lots of the time the journey we're taking is one of vulnerability (learning, creatively extending ourselves, taking risks). Then there's the criticism and critique. People can objectively be pretty awful. It doesn't matter if it's making my own software tooling, or a song, or fleshing out a new idea... I just don't want to hear anyone's opinion - I want to focus on being productive in what I'm doing. I've often found that isolating is way more productive than trying to ship to an audience. If I need other people I don't pull them in as an audience, I pull them in as an advisor and/or teacher: contracting out a code review, or going to guitar lessons. If/when this stuff I created dies with me that's OK. I'm a fart in the wind anyway, and I don't care about silly things like "legacy" - I just need to create stuff to optimize and improve the world around me. And, sometimes I create stuff just because it feels good. It's a selfish endeavor sure, but I'd have it no other way.

flatbub 4y ago

Nice! Bravo for your contributions! After using and contributing NixOS for 3 years, I appreciated that I understood far more how Guix worked after just one 1-2 weeks of using it. Guix introduces abstractions, such as operating-system that has defined fields that make it clearer what structures are being built. NixOS, on the other hand, does not have such abstractions (or perhaps just not as well documented/discoverable). Alas, I found Guix a bit slow and a bit difficult to contribute to (mailing list workflow, and fewer reviewers), and don't have the capacity to help improve that, and so I'm back to NixOS. Guix is tackling multiple fronts: a blob-free kernel, a non systemd init, mailing list development, bootstrapability, no non-free software, high standards for commit messages. If they reduced the number of fronts they were tackling, they might increase contributions, but the current contributors seem to value their existing fronts. That's fair.

xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
> Guix introduces abstractions, such as operating-system that has defined fields that make it clearer what structures are being built. NixOS, on the other hand, does not have such abstractions (or perhaps just not as well documented/discoverable). NixOS had plenty of abstractions, so I don't quite understand this. All of NixOS is a compilation of abstractions for building an operating system environment. Could you elaborate on what abstractions are not present? > Guix is tackling multiple fronts: a blob-free kernel, a non systemd init, mailing list development, bootstrapability, no non-free software, high standards for commit messages. Except for the last one, all of these are noble achievements perhaps within a subset of an ecosystem, like Nix or Guix, but the deliberate and unwavering stapling of these goals to the ecosystem makes Guix unpalatable.
- flatbub 4y ago
  AFAICT, NixOS has no equivalent to the type https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/operating_002dsystem-Reference.html https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/operating_002dsyste... , which makes it clear what an OS contains, and allows you to query the OS. Instead, NixOS has many options, whose only structure is that they form a tree. When trying to understand a host, it's unclear how to begin to analyze this tree: no option is at a higher level of abstraction than any other, or if it is, it's difficult to infer that. Arguably I could just look at my host's config, and that will tell me what this host does, but it doesn't. It actually describes my how machine differs from the default NixOS machine. (How do I learn what a default NixOS machine do? Query for all services "enabled" option is set to true?) With Guix, I follow the code: how is this host's OS "services" field populated.

autopilot23 4y ago

very wholesome post

zachwill 4y ago

Great article, Marius! I can absolutely relate to this.

hardwaresofton 4y ago

Thank you for making Guix -- it's the only one os-as-code that I've tried and intend to use. I don't think DSLs are the right answer (a la Nix) -- and the fact that Guix is written in an infinitely malleable fully featured programming language is awesome IMO.

sweetbitter 4y ago

@dang Am I banned from replies? Why? Because I comment through Tor? Is there a better way to ask this without polluting a comment section?

kirubakaran 4y ago
You could email hn@ycombinator.com
xupybd 4y ago
Have a look in the FAQ there is a comment about banned IP addresses. I think Tor might be giving you an IP that has been abusive in the past. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4761102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4761102 To contact Dang the best option, I suspect, is to email hn@ycombinator.com
mkl 4y ago
There's also a limit on how quickly you can reply to a new comment. The reply link is missing at first, but you can get it on the comment's page by clicking the timestamp.
- sweetbitter 4y ago
  Thank you.

LanternLight83 4y ago

Guix has been the only distro I run on my PC and Laptop for some time now, and will be what I depoy on my home server when I eventually get it back up and running (really looking forward to learning services and containerization inside and out). The ease of access to the source tree, the freedom and hackability, all come together to enable my habit of getting in over my head. I've got some patches languishing that I've been meaning to come back to, and this post reassures and inspires me. Thanks for putting your thoughts out there.

ReactiveJelly 4y ago

I hope I find a home like that for myself one day.

xyzzy_plugh 4y ago

I like the blog post and I'm happy for the author, truly. But Guix doesn't sit well with me, and I rarely see this discussed: The Guix zealotry will be their undoing, and frankly this is where Nix shines. I can use Nix at work, at home, with family, with vendors, with binary blobs, on macOS. The community tries very hard to help. With Guix, sure, there's stuff like nonguix, but take a gander at this from the nonguix readme: > Please do NOT promote this repository on any official Guix communication channels, such as their mailing lists or IRC channel, even in response to support requests! This is to show respect for the Guix project’s strict policy against recommending nonfree software, and to avoid any unnecessary hostility. Guix has truly noble goals (in classic GNU fashion) but they're ultimately misguided. Yes sure it's great that it's pure and reproducible and whatever else but if I can't get stuff done with it it's useless. Actually useless. The standard encouraged response to "Hi I'm a new Guix user and I was wondering how I can run steam?" is roughly equivalent to "Go fuck yourself" and I'm just amazed by that. If Guix ever becomes mainstream, it will be in spite of their efforts. In the meantime, I'm betting on Nix.

caslon 4y ago
Have you considered the idea that it might just not be for you? There are plenty of workflows that don't require proprietary software, and adding proprietary software breaks a lot of the point of Guix, along with throwing more work onto the backs of maintainers. You wouldn't expect a bunch of people giving away a vegetarian cookbook to respond super well to, "This is all fine and great and all, but how can I adapt this recipe to grilled dog?" Especially not after saying their project was pointless since you couldn't easily use it to shish kebab your cat.
- ivalm 4y ago
  > but how can I adapt this recipe to grilled dog > couldn't easily use it to shish kebab your cat This seems like an unnecessarily hostile response, kind of inline with what the OP mentioned.
  - caslon 4y ago

beckingz 4y ago

Good for the author! Find a thing that works for you, make it work for you and the people around you, win!

reilly3000 4y ago

I really appreciate this post and how it highlights the power of becoming involved in occupation. I use that term in the context of the fact that my spouse is an Occupational Therapist by trade. In that field, the term occupation refers to a collection of activities of daily living, not a "job" per se. Rather than seeing patients through a framework of diagnosis or disability, they look at activities and people's ability to perform them, and intervene where there is lack. In practice that may involve helping an amputee learn how to put on socks, or helping an autistic child participate in education. More broadly, a central philosophy of their field is that meaningful occupation is a powerful motivator that has cascading effects across the many component activities in somebody's daily life. OP's post described how becoming involved as a Guix contributor effectively organized and motivated other areas of their life as well. The fact that we all are here hanging out on a VC's forum tends to color our idea of what value means. I think this post inspires that there is value to not only the community but also the individual as well in just "doing cool stuff".

chrisweekly 4y ago
Yes! See also the Japanese concept of "ikigai", which helps explain why many people's ideas equating traditional retirement with happiness are so misguided.
- drewzero1 4y ago
  I'm at a point in my (young adult) life where I'm starting to think really seriously about planning for retirement, and I'm finding that the idea of just "putting my feet up" at a certain age actually disgusts me. I work with a lot of retired people and while I don't want to stay in this particular job/company/field until I die, I do hope to keep doing meaningful work in some capacity into my twilight years.
tetha 4y ago
This reminds me of something someone told me about hobbies, and becoming good at something: If you want to become really good at something, find simple enjoyment in doing the thing, and not in other people or the results. Like, don't become a metal bass player because you want to play in a band to perform at Wacken. That will fail and disappoint. Instead, find enjoyment in rhythm kicking people like a damn horse, or find enjoyment in how different rhythm structures can be, and sounds an instrument can make. For me, it's becoming really interesting to understand how different fundamental rhythms of different genres are.

alphachloride 4y ago

https://guix.gnu.org/en/about/ https://guix.gnu.org/en/about/ > Guix is an advanced distribution of the GNU operating system developed by the GNU Project—which respects the freedom of computer users. For anyone looking for more context. I did not know anything about the what and why and who of this post. Having read it, I like the author's point of view. Working on it is good for his well-being. That's more than enough reason to pursue it.

fezfight 4y ago
Sounds like a rad hobby, to be honest. Good for the author and thanks to you for framing it like this.
fnordpiglet 4y ago
In fact, I’d say there can be no better reason.

flobosg 4y ago

Great post. It reminded me a bit of this one from the creator of SerenityOS: https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-SerenityOS-full-time/ https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-Ser...

Gatsky 4y ago
Is there something about writing an OS that helps recovery from addiction? Or perhaps the causality is reversed.
e12e 4y ago
So in a somewhat similar vein we have SerenityOS, GNU Guix and TempleOS (by the late Davis). Might be room for some research in this area?
- mbakke 4y ago
  This makes it sound like I'm the founder or main developer of Guix which is not at all the case. I certainly would have been worse off mentally without Guix as a creative or "OCD" outlet however.

metafunctor 4y ago

Wow. These reasons match exactly why I've built open source software in the past (now running on your iPhone). Fun. Rewarding. Feels important. Pure. Maybe didn't save my life, but given a different start, definitely plausible.

InnerGargoyle 4y ago
didnt know what you built, but certainly fullfilling for you, i guess.

inciampati 4y ago

Guix has been utterly transformative for my scientific work. It lets me maintain a lab notebook (my shell history) with perfect description of what software versions commands I ran used. I don't upstream much. It's just packages I maintain in my own channel that support this. On a multi user HPC server environment, it's simply ideal. Every user can have their own system setup. Love it.

slgeorge 4y ago
I've been using Guix on top of Ubuntu so that I can have the latest versions of some applications I care about, while keeping the core Ubuntu which works well with my hardare. Similar to your comment the ability to see exactly what is installed, with repeatability is fantastic. For my personal use-case the ability to install an application in parallel to Ubuntu's is really useful.

Linda703 4y ago

[dead]

slgeorge 4y ago

Finding that "intrinsic motivation" to work on a hobby is something that really helps to keep you going. Often we're extrinsically motivated by others praise, social media likes ete. While praise is no bad thing, it doesn't always happen or you can be knocked off course by negative feedback. I'm often amazed by the intrinsic motivation and long track records of people working on open source.

meta-level 4y ago

Just reading "The Little Book Of Ikigai" - this post reads like a rewording of the most important aspects of Ikigai :) Sounds all quite familiar to me..

tux 4y ago

Thank you to Marius Bakke for this post. I can relate, this is exactly why I've been doing my own project since 2016 even when not many know about it or use it or even supported it. I've learned so much from doing this project from scratch and made some very good friends since day one. And @behnamoh "Does it bother you if people don't discover your work and don't use it?" If I may... I personally don't care if people use my project(s), as long as I do =) It's what makes you personally happy that matters ^_^ I'm actually working actively on v2.0 of the project without much support at all, just because I use it daily myself =) Edit: I think that the best project(s) you can do in life is the ones you use yourself the most. When you are both creator and user of your project(s) you have unique perspective. Thanks to all for reading my comment.

zelphirkalt 4y ago

I can confirm, that some of the free software projects and mailing lists and IRC channels are really good learning environments. Since I have started being sometimes active on the Guile and a bit rarer the Guix mailing list, I have learned a ton of stuff. People are usually helpful and it helps discovering gaps in ones knowledge or things one got wrong. Also good for learning about many cool tools.

oxplot 4y ago

> With Guix I finally felt home The core reason why I develop my own solutions to certain problems.

unixhero 4y ago

And let's all be honest here: There is nothing else to do in Norway unless you're a active sportsman during the 9 winter months. There are few parades Few social gatherings Little social cohesion No reason to seek up a public place to randomly meet people, because people shun random social contact There is only binge drinking and a social walking alone in the cities Same with Sweden and Finland. As opposed to living in sunny country a south of the equator. Living in Norway is a blessing and a curse.

karamanolev 4y ago
Are you saying that as a nordic country resident or is that an external observation? If it's first hand experience, do you care to elaborate on the differences and why you think they exist?
- intothemild 4y ago
  I'm an Australian immigrant living in Norway for the last 12 years. The post is partially true. The parts about social cohesion are the partially true bit. Norwegians are not that great at meeting new people outside of their established groups.. that's it. Everything else in the post is not true in the slightest.
arcade79 4y ago
I have yet to see the winter last 9 months. Typically starts in November and ends in March. And nothing to do during the winter? Cozy up by the fireplace, pop a bottle of wine with a loved one. Read books. Make delicious food. Prepare for xmas, visit the various xmas markets, then there is new year which is a blast. And let's not forget the julebord-season during late November and first half of December! January and February are dreary. I'll admit that. Then there is winter vacation. You don't need to be a sportsman to enjoy pulling on a pair of cross county skis, head out with friends and family and create a nice campfire somewhere to grill hot dogs over. Don't forget the oranges and kvikklunch! Rent an airbnb somewhere with good access to either downhill slopes or cross-county trips. Spend the evening playing board games with friends, drinking and having it cozy by the fireplace again. Late march / early April is springtime, and everyone is hungry for the sun. Easter arrives at some point. Again an excellent opportunity to go to some cottage and enjoy some time off. But yeah, January and February are dreary.

nonrandomstring 4y ago

Read together, some comments seem to reveal the poles of a moral landscape in the hacker community: > Guix saved my life... finally feeling some stability in life; and a desire to explore other creative outlets such as blogging (hi!), cooking, growing sustainable foods; and healthy activities like climbing and skiing. None of this would be possible without Guix, > If Guix ever becomes mainstream, it will be in spite of their efforts. What's behind resentment of the sacrifices made by others on a journey to modest personal success and happiness? I think that many of us are deeply unhappy with our jobs. For moral reasons. The high salaries aren't enough. But there isn't the courage to take a plunge into something crazy, risky - the spiritual transformation so deeply craved for. If you have "mouths to feed", and think that is stopping you, try talking to your partner and dependents. You may be surprised that they love you, want you to be happy, and support your projects.

xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
I do not at all resent the attitude. I resent that Guix is presented as a serious alternative to, say, Nix, within this community. I will be the first person to appreciate the efforts of folks working on Open and Free Software, it's really noble. The world would be a better place if all our software was Free, but that's not the world we live in today. I wish them all the luck and success in the world, but wanting adoption while also shunning (guilting?) your user base when confronted with practical feedback is not a healthy attitude.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  I picked out your comment and didn't mean that to reflect personally on you or assume your deeper intentions, sorry. Yours and few other comments seemed to really jar against what felt like a very sincere and open post by the OP. I'm sure you do appreciate the efforts while simply disagreeing with the ideology. Fair enough.
  - xyzzy_plugh 4y ago
    I appreciate the response, no hard feelings. Your take was fair. I definitely don't want to dog pile on what is otherwise a warm spirited submission, but something about Guix is grinding my gears! In hindsight, this submission is the wrong forum for such a rant.

marcus_holmes 4y ago

(Part of) my path out of depression was committing to something bigger than myself. Giving more than I received to a community. In the end, it not only helped me climb out of my black hole, it also rewarded me in ways I never expected.

noduerme 4y ago

There's a point, or should be one, where you realize your hobby is actually your vocation - because you love being excellent at your craft. Loving what you're building is worth more than all the money in the world.

amelius 4y ago

Article prompted me to take Guix for a test-drive (as a user, not yet as a package-writer), but I'm running into some peculiar behavior. Installing Python with "guix install python" tells me: The following package will be installed: python 3.8.2 But then it starts downloading tcl-8.6.10 tk-8.6.10 python-3.8.2-tk I find this strange, because Python is most often used without Tk (or Tcl) and I don't want to waste disk space. Also, it installs pip3. But you can't use pip3 because you will get: ERROR: Could not install packages due to an EnvironmentError: [Errno 30] Read-only file system: '/gnu/store/...' I guess Python packages should be installed using Guix too. (EDIT: yes, you have to install them like "guix install python-numpy" etc.) Imho, this is a pity because it means one package manager (Guix) is circumventing another (pip), and thus wasting the effort that went into building and supporting it.

antihero 4y ago
Historically I think the tk UI lib has been considered the always available UI library in “batteries included” python. You’re getting the permissions error as by default pip installs system-wide, for local stuff use the local option or a virtualenv.
ryukafalz 4y ago
> Imho, this is a pity because it means one package manager (Guix) is circumventing another (pip), and thus wasting the effort that went into building and supporting it. The thing is, language package managers may work well for software written solely in that language, but that breaks down real fast when any of them have native dependencies (and many do). Guix is intended to be a universal Linux package manager that can handle packages written in any language on any distro. (It does this better for some languages than others, admittedly.) I’ve experienced enough very broken Python environments that I appreciate only having one package manager to worry about. I wouldn’t say it’s wasting the effort of Python packaging devs though; it does have an importer for pip packages, so the standard Python packaging work makes it easier to import pip packages into Guix.
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  [flagged]

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

Good on ya. I wish you luck. Personally, I don't have a use for the OS, but that is no reflection on its quality or usefulness. I just play on a different jungle gym. Writing an OS is not for the faint of heart. Lots of moving parts. I've done it (on a much, much smaller scale -embedded assembly). Great way to learn the ins and outs of pretty much any software pattern out there. I see the usual smattering of "it's not a real software project because ... <insert metric here>," and understand where that comes from. But I've been writing full production-Quality open-source "hobby" projects for over a decade. The polish, documentation, testing, and maintenance are part of the "fun" for me. I absolutely couldn't care any less, if no one uses my software; in fact, I prefer it that way, as I don't need to worry about moving anyone's cheese, if I decide to make changes. I use my software in my own work.

fearthetelomere 4y ago

Once you find the things that anchor you physically, it makes it much easier to sail where you want to sail and stay when you want to stay. No matter what passes around me or what happens in life, having these anchors about myself lifts the good times to be more enjoyable and the bad that much more surmountable. I'm happy for you.

thenerdhead 4y ago

This is a beautiful post of self-actualization. So wholesome that one major thing in their life can change their perspective over six years.

zach_garwood 4y ago

I want to find this peace, too.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bhelkey 4y ago

Very off topic but I am curious about Guix: > It's reassuring to know that all packages are bootstrapped and not just some random binary blobs. Surely there must be some binary blobs, no?

rekado 4y ago
There are some binary blobs, yes. Some stem from the early days. Before Mes and the reduced binary seed (see the Guix manual for details) we used to have a selected set of bootstrap binaries (e.g. statically linked bash, tar, gzip, a big fat gcc, etc). With Mes the bootstrap seed is merely a couple of bytes that can feasibly be audited. Reproducible builds make it possible to audit the results of this early bootstrap. Some binary blobs remain: for example, there's a blob for an arbitrary version of the Glasgow Haskell Compiler, because our collective attempts to bootstrap it from source have failed. (I have previously published some of my experiences in attempting to find a bootstrap path.) Another blob is a bootstrap binary for the Pascal compiler; there's another one for one of the Scheme implementations, I think. But for new packages we generally won't accept pre-built binaries. Our Java packages, for example, are completely built from source. Back then I worked on the Java bootstrap from source; we're building the first Java compiler and the first Java libraries from C (jikes + GNU classpath) and work our way up to the latest OpenJDK. Java libraries are also built completely from source --- we won't accept pre-built Jars (unlike Nix). This is probably the primary reason why Guix has fewer Java packages than Nix. The Rust bootstrap (on x86_64) is also done from C.

0prueba0 4y ago

prueba

0prueba0 4y ago

prueba2