33 ms·

Ford F-150 Lightning: Fast Truck, Slow Computer

230 points by stalfosknight 4y ago

throw03172019 4y ago
They strapped on an Android tablet and called it a day. From my experience (ex-mobile game dev, Medical SaaS), Android tablets are very slow. We encourage our customers to not buy Android tablets because the patient experience is not the greatest.
- markus92 4y ago
  Not even Android, according to the article. That's coming next year, now it's a proprietary Ford system.
- sjm-lbm 4y ago
  Current versions of the Ford infotainment platform are based on QNX, actually. The article mentions that Ford is switching to Android, but that hasn't happened yet.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    Why is Ford switching away from a RTOS with a great history in the automotive space to try to force me to have something to do with Google?
    - rektide 4y ago
      Because there's a vibrant ecosystem around Android with wonderful third party support, with a rich platform & ecosystem already well known & loved by many developers & consumers alike. Where-as QNX is a toolkit for building one-off custom appliances that no third party will ever see or improve or enrich. One is a dead end stuck in a niche, the other realized it had to create more value than it captured. And generally the Google open ecosystem one is pretty ok.
      - NotYourLawyer 4y ago
        Android is cheaper because it hoovers up the “owner’s” data.
        rnk 4y ago
        That may be, but it wins because it's vastly better than all the alternatives, except tesla or a few other leading 'new car companies' like rivian.
        HWR_14 4y ago
        How on earth is it "better"? Dumb cars are better. Obviously, I want the EV to have mission critical things related to it being an EV, but there's no reason for anything else to get fancy. Tesla has the worst cockpit experience because it's a single large screen.
        prepend 4y ago
        It’s not as good as my dumb bmw “connected drive” from 5 years ago.
        kernal 4y ago
        Is that why BMW is integrating Android Automotive? https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0401875EN/bmw-group-expands-%E2%80%9Cbmw-operating-system-8%E2%80%9D-with-a-variant-that-integrates-%E2%80%9Candroid-automotive-os%E2%80%9D?language=en https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T040187...
        HWR_14 4y ago
        Because it's cheaper for BMW, not because it's better for their customers.
        kernal 4y ago
        So you know what's better for BMW customers than BMW? Have you informed BMW of this revelation?
- pkulak 4y ago
  It has to be an automotive-grade screen or one afternoon in a Phoenix parking lot will be the end of it. It's absolutely not a tablet, or even a part from one.
r00fus 4y ago
Does it do CarPlay/Android Auto? If that's the case, I honestly don't really care how fast it is - I have an older EV with Sync3 and it's fine (more than fine, I just use my smartphone for most interactions using CarPlay). The only thing I may dislike is not having physical buttons/dials for climate.
- aaronbrethorst 4y ago
  this is addressed in the article. You can just Cmd/Ctrl+F for the word CarPlay for an answer. There’s a quick action button to navigate back home on the map widget, but it just opens the map app full-screen, defeating the purpose of the widget entirely. I’d love to have CarPlay open to handle my phone and messaging alongside the radio, but that’s not possible, even though the display is clearly big enough to show both at once. All of that is made worse by how slow everything is. Switching between the radio and the map or the map and CarPlay is… slow. Swiping along the cards is pretty slow. The display can be responsive, and the games are certainly playable, but in most instances, it’s just slow. This is the point in any car review where many people are already drafting emails to me about just using CarPlay or Android Auto instead of the stock software, but friends, CarPlay and Android Auto are not good at helping EV owners navigate charging. If you want to plot out a route with accurate range estimates and an effective charging strategy, you have to use the built-in nav — especially since Ford has taken the time to organize charging stations by speed, and seeking out 150kW fast chargers is an important part of the Lightning experience because the battery is so big. Apple and Google are a long way behind on this front.
  - master_crab 4y ago
    “If you want to plot out a route with accurate range estimates and an effective charging strategy, you have to use the built-in nav” I saw that phrase in the story and came here to comment and saw this thread. I think we should be honest with ourselves about recent history: Apple and Google will be quicker to roll out functionality for EV specific navigation (i.e. chargers) in their apps then car manufacturers will be to fix their UI problems. Edit: I also dont want to spend $xxx a year on map updates from manufacturers when Apple Maps are free (I understand I’m not the customer with Google even if their mapping product is great) and better
Rooster61 4y ago
It's incredibly frustrating to me that buying a vehicle with a pushbutton, working, reliable interface is becoming increasingly impossible to do. Why is UX so horrifically bad in the vehicle space? Is it poor management decisions or a shortage of good UX engineers? I get that lumping everything into the touchscreen can be a cheaper option to build, but I'd GLADLY pay for a different option. I don't understand it.
- mint2 4y ago
  Cars seating is horrible and bad for backs. Trends, tradition and short term cost decide most design considerations not practicality or what’s best.
  - kayodelycaon 4y ago
    Depends on the car and the person. I have back problems and almost no office chairs are usable for me. I can easily drive 10 hours in my car with no issues. Sometimes, my back feels better after a drive that long.
  - boc 4y ago
    I wouldn't say this is universally true. Lexus and Volvo tend to make amazing car seats. I say this after driving 2000 miles last week and not feeling a thing in my old Lexus GX.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  The entire auto industry is driven by hype and trends rather than functionality
  - 7952 4y ago
    Yes. Just look at the appalling forward blind spot on a lot of trucks and SUVs. Or the way cars have become taller at the expense of aerodynamics.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
itsoktocry 4y ago
>Ford’s entire suite of driver-assistance tech is called “BlueCruise,” which is deeply confusing because it means that everything from boring old cruise control to full-on hands-free driving is technically “BlueCruise.” This seems far less confusing than the Autopilot and FSD bifurcation that Tesla has. It beeps at you to get your hands on the wheel when you're trying to autosteer in places it's not allowed. Sounds reasonable, no?
- warty_affrays 4y ago
  Do you think it would be more or less confusing if Autopilot and FSD were both called them same name?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
andrewla 4y ago
Generally speaking the horrifying quality of Ford's electronics have been enough to keep me away from even considering purchasing one. Absolutely nothing works right and certainly nothing works well. It may or may not be able to connect bluetooth, it may or may not acknowledge a USB device, it may or may not start blaring whatever FM station was last tuned in for no reason on startup, or start playing the first album on your phone. Phone audio will sometimes play as media, and sometimes show up as phone calls. And of course, cripplingly slow, which for a touchscreen is deadly -- you have no idea whether or not the system even realized that you pressed it, and when you mash the button more than once you may find that you've clicked a button on a not-yet-visible-screen. Absolute garbage. Mazda is apparently taking the right approach here -- increasing the tactile buttons on the dash and console, and ditching touchscreens. Really, cars should just have a built-in phone mount and connectors, and just let the phone do pretty much everything. If Ford wants to have a map of charging stations, partner with Apple or Google (or Waze) or build their own OSM-based maps app. Apple CarPlay and Android Auto are okay-ish, but frankly I find the experience of just having the phone on a mount and using that as the display to be far superior in almost every way.
- codazoda 4y ago
  This happens in every car I own. Chevy. Kia. Ram. I agree the phone should do everything. The equivalent of an old aux cord (maybe via BT) would be enough. My Kia does have CarPlay, which is very nice for maps and audio, but that’s all I really use. It still has all kinds of issues. My wife plugs in her phone (cable) and it takes over, then suddenly mine wins it back, she flicks some stuff on her screen to get it back again. Pretty messy in all cars I’ve used.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    I have had no issues with wired CarPlay. Do you have wireless CarPlay? I have not heard of that being reliable yet. If both of you are wiring into CarPlay, I do not see why Kia would allow two wired connections to CarPlay.
    - 4y ago
johnklos 4y ago
Android? So now our cars will stop working and/or will become hopelessly insecure when Google and Ford decide to stop updating them?
- johnklos 4y ago
  - pkulak 4y ago
    I'm firmly in the camp that it's not patriotic to stylize the American flag in any way... but I'd love it if you expanded on how this version is racist.
    - LeoPanthera 4y ago
      The "thin blue line" flag is used almost exclusively by the far-right, and more specifically by white supremacists. The flag on the Lightning isn't that flag, but it does resemble it.
      - pkulak 4y ago
        Oh interesting. Just looked it up, and the thin blue line flag is black and white. Don't think I've ever seen a black and white American flag before.
        davidw 4y ago
        I'm not up on all the details, but those grayed out flags do seem to have some particular associations. Nothing wrong with a regular old flag IMO.
      - namecheapTA 4y ago
        And here I was thinking it was used by people that appreciate their local police force and understand the stresses they are under.
tablespoon 4y ago
> ...the Mustang Mach-E and the Lightning have a 15.5-inch portrait center screen running Sync 4A, which is the same as Sync 4 with the addition of touchscreen climate controls and widgets that fill out the vertical height of the display. Why??? Climate controls should not be on a touchscreen. Display is fine, but control is not. Just leave space for some knobs and a mode switch.
- foxyv 4y ago
  I don't know about the F150 Lightning, but the Fords I've seen all use a HOTAS style setup where the climate, radio, etc... are all controlled by buttons on the steering wheel. The touchscreen is more for passengers.
  - russb 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOTAS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOTAS "HOTAS, an acronym of hands on throttle-and-stick"
- zip1234 4y ago
  The Mach E climate controls on the touchscreen are fine. With modern cars, mostly just set it to the temp you like and leave it. It isn't like old cars where constant fiddling with fan and temp to get everything correct is needed.
  - rascul 4y ago
    > With modern cars, mostly just set it to the temp you like and leave it. It isn't like old cars where constant fiddling with fan and temp to get everything correct is needed. Opposite for me. I can set and forget the old style. This auto crap requires constant adjustment to keep me comfortable.
olivermarks 4y ago
Right now automotive UI's and sw are in the equivalent of pre iphone era mobile phone jankyness, just good at one or two things with a ton of cruft that doesn't work well. We all know BEVs are fast - even a 1960's UK electric milkfloat is amazingly speedy from standstill - but I'd say Ford are years away from their BEVs being viable and reliable, not least due to lack of charging network. The lousy towing performances on BEV trucks rings alarm bells too. https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-electric-truck-towing-test/ https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-elect... A little off topic but it appears Anne Heche's vehicle was a hybrid or BEV and caused a huge fire, one of my biggest BEV concerns - It took nearly 60 firefighters more than an hour to douse the flames. https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2022/08/08/anne-heche-tested-drugs-alcohol-car-crash-police/10267671002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/202...
- cpwright 4y ago
  The lousy towing performance probably doesn't matter. 75% of truck owners tow one time a year or less. I've had my F-150 for 8 years 45,000 miles, and it's seen a trailer 3 times for a total of less than 400 miles. I'm close to being in the market for a new truck, and the biggest deal breaker for me with the lightning is the 5.5' box instead of the 6.5' box. Weighing over 6,000 lbs also means you can't register it as a passenger vehicle in NYS without capping it - meaning you can't drive on the parkways. https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...
  - rnk 4y ago
    There were news articles that they revised this law for the rivian and presumably the f150ev. At first people ran into this weight / registration issue.
  - matwood 4y ago
    I want my next truck to be an EV, but towing does matter to me. I hope by the time I replace my 2007 Tundra there will be an EV truck that does tow well. I just broke 130k miles, and easily have another 100k, so I have some time.
kkfx 4y ago
Cars OEMs know (in general, more or less) how to build cars. In electronics tend to be crappy at best in IT terms they are like classic dumb users, except they actually design crapware. It's not much Ford, it's ANY OEMs I know of...
- bottlepalm 4y ago
  (except Tesla who actually has their own hardware, software, dev team and frequently pushes updates for years)
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    And doesn't support basic functionality like CarPlay or Android Auto, which is supported by almost every other manufacturer even on their base model cheap cars.
    - natch 4y ago
      And other cars don't support Netflix, YouTube, Hulu, Twitch, and arcade games while in Park, which are great when waiting for something, as well as Spotify, TuneIn, etc., so I guess we're even? I'd rather have a bunch of competing services rather than just a generic UI from one vendor that's always pushing service upgrade packages like Apple One. I suspect CarPlay and Android Auto come with strings attached from Apple (must fall in line with the Apple walled garden rules) and Google (must track users on behalf of Google) so, no big loss.
      - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
        Nonsense. Android Auto (and likely CarPlay as well) is just a video player. They just take H.265 frames and feed it to the head unit, and feed user feedback back to the phone. Audio stack is I believe somehow piggybacked off Bluetooth, but I could be wrong. As far as I know no software from Google runs on the head unit itself.
        4y ago
Animats 4y ago
Does this mean you have to have a Google account to drive a Ford vehicle? That's no good.
eneumann 4y ago
As a cyclist, I'm super excited about one day being run over by one of these things. The giant vehicle trend is getting a lot of people killed. And why does any vehicle need to accelerate that quickly? It's irresponsible on public roads. I would really love to see acceleration and speed limiters on vehicles.
- _dain_ 4y ago
  agreed on everything except acceleration
- misiti3780 4y ago
  Not sure why you are so concerned with acceleration.... If you're on a bike, it doesnt matter if you get hit by a truck at 30, 45, or 60. You're most likely dead anyways, adnd if you survive, there is a good chance you wish you were dead.
  - DangitBobby 4y ago
    The faster it's going when it hits you, the more you'll wish you were dead.
  - srg0 4y ago
    If you hit a pedestrian: at 40 mph there is a 90 percent chance they will be killed. at 35 mph there is a 50 percent chance they will be killed. at 30 mph there is a 20 percent chance they will be killed. at 20 mph there is a 2.5 percent chance they will be killed. Source: https://www.roadwise.co.uk/using-the-road/speeding/the-chance-of-a-pedestrian-surviving/ https://www.roadwise.co.uk/using-the-road/speeding/the-chanc...
    - misiti3780 4y ago
      thanks, that is very interesting data, i wonder how they collected it. i supposed if you are on a bike wearing a helmet these percentages all go down....
- dymk 4y ago
colechristensen 4y ago
Do fleet versions of new cars/trucks also have stupid touchscreens in them? Like a new F-450, is it driven by a shitty android tablet too?
subsubzero 4y ago
I don't know if its just me but electric trucks/cars and the buying experience there is one giant pit of frustration. I want to buy a electric truck, was thinking of a Rivian, but good luck getting one in the next 2-3 years. And if you do manage to get one watch out for your axel coming apart! [1], maybe I will get a lightning, looks like same leadtime issues, 2 years+ wait and they are totally changing the brain(from ford to android) so the ones now will be obsolete. Also from tesla to rivian all I hear are horror stories about the service, and tesla's build quality is nowhere near any of the traditional automakers(fit and finish). I just want to buy a reliable electric truck or suv that has a decent finish and don't want to wait 2-3 years, someone please take my money! [1] - https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/rivian-r1t-cv-axle-failure-missed-by-service-center.7404/page-4#post-189801 https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/rivian-r1t-cv-axl...
- treesknees 4y ago
  What you're asking for just doesn't exist yet. The marketing teams at these companies are clearly doing a great job selling these vehicles as reliable simple alternatives to ICE-powered, but that's just not the case. Ignoring all of the supply-chain issues from the pandemic lockdowns (shipping, chip shortages, labor shortages, etc.) you're still purchasing new technology that will take years to iron out the quality problems. I've friends who work in the automotive industry in various engineering roles and none of them are driving brand-new platforms because they know better. Just like the software world, manufacturers will take all of the maintenance data from dealerships and use it to improve the design and production. If you're OK with being the beta tester filing bug reports in this relationship, by all means, buy an electric truck.
  - rnk 4y ago
    I'll agree with that. Yet I alsonever want to buy anything from an enforced middleman again. First I avoided that with Tesla, and now I did it with Rivian. It does have some bugs, so did my last car I bought 20 years ago form a major manufacturer.
    - 4y ago
prepend 4y ago
> but also a stopgap as Ford resets its entire software strategy around Android in partnership with Google. This doesn’t seem like a good idea because there are Android people and iOS people. Alienating a large swath of customers is not a good idea. That and I don’t want Google monitoring all my car data. One of the big reasons I don’t have a Tesla is their data policy. But I’d rather Tesla have my data than Google because at least it won’t be linked to everything else about me. Also, I want to drive cars for 10 or 20 years. Google has never maintained Android for that long. I’d rather just have an embedded os written and maintained by ford (that doesn’t suck).
- ledauphin 4y ago
  no car company "maintains" their embedded software, either. updates do happen, but there are no guarantees, no transparency, and essentially no aftermarket options for most modern cars.
  - emkoemko 4y ago
    GMC wanted me to pay like 200-300$ to update the firmware.... to fix a bug i had with my truck.... i look forward to android :)
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  > This doesn’t seem like a good idea because there are Android people and iOS people Android Automotive (the "base OS" that's not even really "Android" in the way that you think of it from phones; the impression I have gathered is that it is a separate embedded Linux sharing only a few parts and iterating in a different pace) that Ford is moving to still supports Apple CarPlay as well as it supports Android Auto (the Apple CarPlay competitor). It's another fun place where Google's branding strategy confuses way more than it helps by having very similar names for very different products, in this case Android Automotive !== Android Auto. But yeah, the other complaints are valid: Android Automotive is still so new we have no idea if Google is truly in it for the long haul or if that's another badly named brand eventually likely to end up in the graveyard. I don't think we know how much data Google will be monitoring from it either.
twobitshifter 4y ago
With the performance of this and other EVs now beating the Raptor pickup, do you think we’ll start to see performance regulated for safety reasons? A massive pickup able to 0-60 in a few seconds is cool, but in the hands of the less responsible it sounds like a huge safety risk. We cap the performance of tiny scooters but multiton trucks are able to go as fast as humanly possible?
- davidw 4y ago
  Massive, heavy trucks with a blind spot, the ability to accelerate very rapidly, and a fiddly screen that you need to use even for the most basic of things like heating and cooling. What could possibly go wrong...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- namecheapTA 4y ago
  Atleast when a Dodge Charger is charging up from behind, I can hear the thing. Pedestrians can hear the thing. When the demographic that currently commits most reckless driving eventually adopts electric cars, it's going to be a blood bath.
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    That’s an interesting observation that I hadn’t considered. My enthusiasm for EVs has been pretty unmitigated previously. I still think climate is important enough that dealing with the safety stuff is probably tractable and also the lesser evil, but it’s good to have line of sight on it.
    - vanilla_nut 4y ago
      Unmitigated? Are you not worried about the infrastructure impact of doubling the weight of most classes of vehicle?
      - 4y ago
ggm 4y ago
What is the balance of experience between touch, aural/tactile/visua push response on screens, and actual physical buttons which go "click" and light up? I think the place we know most about this, is the Aircraft space. I am interested because I used to live in 'press it go click' world and now live half-blessed by a car with some controls which are real and a lot of controls which are soft, and I have to say I don't entirely like the experience. When you look at a Concorde control deck, its a 3 man (4 man?) crew, and its unbelievably complex. The replacement in a current spec Boeing or Airbus is simpler, but it's hardly one touch screen. Tesla has gone off the deep end.
- aaronmdjones 4y ago
  Older aircraft have the Flight Engineer position, which is the 3rd or 4th person in the Flight Deck. Modern aircraft do not need flight engineers because of the improvements we've been able to make to aircraft reliability, longevity, and ease of use; but at the time, they were worth their weight in gold and absolutely essential for any flight. Current-generation Boeing aircraft have what's called a "moonlit" configuration, which are switches with lights in them. When the lights are white, everything is okay. When they're yellow or red, something is wrong. When the lights are off, that system is off. Very easy UX. EDIT: Photo of the 787 Dreamliner overhead panel showing almost everything in yellow. https://media.wired.com/photos/5b33588d9a7504731f8815f5/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/ana787cockpit07.jpg https://media.wired.com/photos/5b33588d9a7504731f8815f5/mast...
  - ggm 4y ago
    This is "we thought about it, and decided to keep real mechanical tactile switches" but also "behind the scenes, these may be like the apple mouse: there's a widgit to go "THUMP" when you press it" Given how many aircraft are fly-by-wire the physical tactile component of a lot of these must be notional, except for the ones which have fuses next to them and are literal cut-outs. You have a switch with a bump, which goes click. The valve 20m away quietly gets turned on by an actuator. The valve completes a circuit to a sensor, which sends a databus signal and the light in your tactile switch comes on.
jconley 4y ago
Can confirm. I have an F-150 Lightning. The UI sucks and is slow. Much worse than my Teslas. It takes like 30 seconds when I get in the truck and turn it on before it's even usable. Switching between CarPlay and the native interface is ridiculous. It's a great truck though. Love it. :) AMA.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  One of these days we will have big enough batteries to power a superduty a reasonable distance. I can't wait. I've loved my EVs, now I want that for my F250.
  - jconley 4y ago
    A bigger concern for me is the charging speed/infrastructure for what an F250/350 might want to do. For me, that's tow a 5th wheel or trailer a UTV for hundreds of miles. Need better infrastructure and much higher voltage packs to make that viable without spending hours at the chargers blocking parking lots.
- misiti3780 4y ago
  What is the real range vs EPA range?
  - jconley 4y ago
    This is highly dependent on how you drive, elevation changes, weather conditions, load/trailer weight/aerodynamics, and average speeds. So... I've seen both better than EPA ratings and worse than EPA ratings. It's rated at 320 miles on the 131kwh battery, which is about 2.4 mi/kwh. I've driven at times ranging from 1.5mi/kwh to 3.5 mi/kwh. So, I think it's accurate for their mixed highway/city test. If you're doing pure highway and thinking about a road trip, that is worst case scenario. At like 70 mph it's going to be around 2-2.1 mi/kwh unladen, so it'll be less than EPA rated, faster speeds get worse due to aero. At 2 mi/kwh that's 262 miles of range. On a road trip I'd also keep the truck between 10-80% state of charge for optimal charge speeds, so I'd only get 70% of the range, or 183 miles. So I'd plan to stop every 150 miles or so. This is actually similar to my real world results driving a Tesla Model 3 and Y. For the most optimal total trip time you're usually stopping every 150-200 miles or so.
kodah 4y ago
> The result is that the software experience of the Lightning often feels trapped in the past, with no clear path to the future because Ford’s real software efforts lie elsewhere. I have a Ford Fusion. The software has remained essentially untouched since I bought it. They rely almost entirely on Android Auto, which has it's own host of bugs and incompatibilities. There's a primary learning from Tesla to be made here: infotainment is a core part of the business. Build it in house.
- symlinkk 4y ago
  I disagree, Android Auto and Apple CarPlay are great. The problem comes when the manufacturer’s interface collides with the Android / Apple interface. Just build a great touchscreen, let Android / Apple handle everything they can, and leave the rest (HVAC controls, volume controls) as physical buttons and switches. You get the best of both worlds - no need to pay an in house team of software engineers who will never be able to compete with Google or Apple anyway, and you please your customers who by and large want physical buttons and knobs.
bri3d 4y ago
It's been 10+ years since cars have gotten screwed in the Consumer Reports and other outlets for bad infotainment. What's the fix? VW's MIB2/MIB2.5 was pretty much the pinnacle of automotive head unit innovation, IMHO, and it wasn't due to the technology - it's QNX and J9 Java like so many head units before it. It just... worked, which seems a bridge too far for modern infotainment. I think C+D and other outlets need to start scoring cars based on their head units, or at least considering them. Much like tires, it's clear that these venues have enough power to bend the industry to some extent.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The problem is cars are bought entirely on other things, the infotainment is not even considered and is rarely a dealbreaker.
  - digitalsushi 4y ago
    I cant purchase a car that doesnt let me just aim the fan at my face, and set the temperature to a specific mix of outside air and heated air. I dont want automatic environments. Fan, face, 16C/60F degrees every day of the year. There will come a day where we will prove I dont know what I want cause I cant buy it anymore.
WhitneyLand 4y ago
Any way to wire up 3rd party hardware buttons / switchgear? I don’t know if there’s any API access for non-critical functionality like climate control.
ubermonkey 4y ago
This is one of those things I'll never experience, and doubly so: I have no use for a truck (I live in a city), and I have never owned or wanted to own an American-made car. They're just all so _bad_.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- symlinkk 4y ago
  What do you drive?
  - ubermonkey 4y ago
    Hondas for a long time. Then a smattering of German makes before we got our GTI about 6 years ago.
- samatman 4y ago
  Can we get a few more paragraphs about you? You sound interesting, obviously you like to talk about yourself, got another anecdote?
  - ubermonkey 4y ago
    Aren't you cute!
avidphantasm 4y ago
“the games are certainly playable” WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GAMES ON A CAR?!?
- jfabre 4y ago
  because they will drive themselves soon.
- hughes 4y ago
  When you have to wait 20 to 40+ minutes for it to charge, having something to poke at for even a minute can help break up the monotony.
  - misiti3780 4y ago
    read.
metadat 4y ago
Why are dealerships in the mix at all for Ford EVs? Seems like a good time to start selling direct to consumers over the web.
- karaterobot 4y ago
  Sounds like that's the plan, at least for the Model E division. https://jalopnik.com/ford-ceo-wants-to-abolish-the-dealership-experience-as-1849007700 https://jalopnik.com/ford-ceo-wants-to-abolish-the-dealershi...
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  Ford is not allowed to sell direct to consumers in I believe 48 states because they already have dealers. They're apparently planning on spinning off their electric division into an entirely new company to get around those laws, but remains to be seen.
- sneak 4y ago
  In most states in the US it is illegal for auto manufacturers to sell directly to the general public.
cmrdporcupine 4y ago
FWIW Ford was hiring around this area (southern Ontario) for software engineers to work on their in-car systems like this. Not sure if this specific one. From what I've heard they were woefully underpaying. A friend of mine talked to them -- very qualified; like me he worked on similar touchscreen, interactive display type systems at Google/Nest, and had a general background on similar systems, and on QNX, etc. They tried to lowball him badly. Like 1/2 the rate he asked for (contract) and probably 1/3rd or 1/4 what we made at Google. I saw a posting from them recently, again, and they were crowing about how they wanted to see candidate's GPA's etc. etc. I don't have a degree, so even if I hadn't heard about their low pay, I wouldn't even consider applying despite being probably very qualified for what they were doing. We had a whole team at Google that worked on getting rid of "jank" and improving FPS and performance on a really low-spec SoC. I wasn't any kind of expert on that team, but I learned a little. But they clearly weren't willing to pay reasonable for talent (like most local Canadian employers, frankly) All of this to say: You get what you pay for.
- Dig1t 4y ago
  I completely agree with your conclusion, this is why I feel that European tech companies can't compete with US ones at all. They just refuse to pay enough to attract the best engineers.
  - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
    Well here's a North American company clearly not willing to pay competitive software engineering rates even within the continent, and trying to take advantage of sub-regional low rates. Like, they're not in Toronto, but just west of it, and companies there are paying less, so, hey, they should pay less, too, right? You get what you pay for. This is what happens when HR drones are allowed to do naive "compensation range surveys" for regions. They do not understand the subtleties of the market and try to lump people with specialized skills, lots of experience, etc. in with people fresh off the boat from overseas, pumping out bug fixes for boring internal legacy J2EE systems at ancient insurance companies. Companies like this will be in real trouble if remote work continues to be a thing. They better hope it doesn't.
partiallypro 4y ago
My dad has an F150 with Sync and it's so slow and bad. I've read this isn't uncommon in many manufacturers, even the Porsche 911 supposedly has a very slow computer system.
dieselgate 4y ago
Well no publicity is bad publicity I suppose. Hopefully the nav screen thing will improve in future releases of this truck. Most surprising was the frunk and blazing quick 0-60mph times (4.6s?)! Hope they work out for people,; still prefer my ‘88 f250 but the Lightning basically has equivalent, if not superior, specs
d1lanka 4y ago
I want to know if it's even remotely possible for a EV truck company like Rivian to unseat the F-150 as America's best selling truck within the next 5 years?
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  No. They simply do not have the manufacturing capacity/ability. Also Rivian only seems interested in manufacturing luxury vehicles. FWIW I own some Rivian stock.
- hedora 4y ago
  Rivian doesn't make a full size pickup truck. Their only bed length is far smaller than the smallest currently-available ICE truck beds. They make a really cool love child of a VW bus, Jeep and El Camino instead.
cavisne 4y ago
As much as Tesla's stock prices is inflated a lot of people dont appreciate just how behind the other car companies are when it comes to electric cars. Non tesla fast charging is an absolute disaster, likewise most/all of these companies havent figured out how to update software without plugging in a usb stick at a dealership. Maybe electric cars will be more like Apple/Samsung in terms of market share then the current range of car companies.
- clouddrover 4y ago
  > Non tesla fast charging is an absolute disaster Doesn't seem to be. Tesla's chargers have been behind the curve versus others with lower speeds, still only 400 volts, and only supporting one brand of car. Tesla is at least slowly starting to support other brands: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ But Circle K, Gridserve, Ionity, etc. are better charging stops with faster chargers: - Circle K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TVohXHjLro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TVohXHjLro - Gridserve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoN4WCpuxHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoN4WCpuxHY - Ionity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UAttTG03WA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UAttTG03WA
  - jws 4y ago
    Not my side of the pond, but clicking around on Gridserve I'm only seeing a maximum charge rate of 60kW. I haven't found a Circle K above 50kW. Ionity has chargers that go to 350kW. For comparison, Tesla superchargers are 150kW or 250kW. That metric shouldn't be interpreted linearly. You only really saturate a charger for the first few minutes of a charge when fairly depleted. Above 15% to 40% of your battery capacity the charging rate slows down (depending on what sort of battery you have). As an example, a 2022 Lucid Air Dream Edition can use 350kW chargers. Going 20% to 80% on a 350kW is 31 minutes, and on a 150kW is 32 minutes. That's negligible. If you start lower than 20% then there is a bigger difference, but I picked 20-80 because it might match a person that exclusively uses non-home chargers. Data from chart in: https://insideevs.com/news/567714/lucid-air-fast-charging-comparison/ https://insideevs.com/news/567714/lucid-air-fast-charging-co... (Also, I suspect a real 20-80 test might show a bigger difference. The 0-20 part of that charge probably heated the battery up more on the 350kW.) Use cases matter a lot. The only time I use a supercharger is when I'm driving more than the range of my car in one trip, 900km is typical of a driving day for me. I'll stop 3 or 4 times at super chargers. Other than that I just charge off the regular old wall outlet in my garage. But if you live in a place without garages you will use chargers a lot and care about where they are located. I have to say a lot of the US superchargers are in odd places, like no bathroom available at night. Most of the rest are in the far corner of some enormous parking lot of an enormous grocery store. By the time you hike to the store, find a bathroom, buy a snack, and hike back to the car you are mostly done charging. Which brings me back to the parent post… "Location!" I absolutely prefer a Circle K with a supercharger. Short walk, open 24 hours, grab a snack, and back to the car with time to check email and maybe HN before heading back to the road.
ninefathom 4y ago
I'm struggling to reconcile these two: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-electric-truck-towing-test/ https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-elect... -- "the towing range of the electric F-150 is dismal." (~100 miles) https://www.theverge.com/23307298/ford-f-150-lightning-review https://www.theverge.com/23307298/ford-f-150-lightning-revie... -- "Happily, the F-150 Lightning is a terrific F-150 — and a terrific truck. If you can find one to buy for a reasonable price and you’ve got a handle on charging for how you’ll use it, it’s clearly a better choice than a gas-powered truck." So... what exactly does The Verge think that a pickup truck is used for? Spoiler alert: if they think it's for running the kids to soccer practice, occasionally moving some plants or lawn furniture, showing off your bling around town, or coping with thinning hair and loss of libido at midlife, there are far better EV options. And for those who are going to argue that the 100-mile range isn't an issue, even if your time is worth nothing, try getting a truck towing a camper into a typical service station parking lot some time. Once every 5+ hours is plenty, thanks. I'm all for EVs, and I'm certain they're the future of the automotive industry. I'm also certain that Ford has a long way to go before I'll even consider swapping my 35-year-old diesel F-250 HD for an electric hauling rig(1). Finally, based on the article, I'm fairly certain that the last thing the good editors at The Verge towed was a Radio Flyer. (Note 1: for those breaking out in a rash, I use the F-250 about once a month and it runs WVO. The daily driver is something with a much smaller carbon footprint.)
- 1-6 4y ago
  Cut through all the marketing first.
- jfim 4y ago
  > I'm also certain that Ford has a long way to go before I'll even consider swapping my 35-year-old diesel F-250 HD for an electric hauling rig(1) It's not as if they're unaware of it. Their CEO even said that for some users, an electric truck won't work. From https://archive.ph/6Deq6 https://archive.ph/6Deq6: > Farley emphasized that Ford plans to continue investing in gasoline-powered vehicles, noting that the Super Duty pickup trucks generate huge revenue for the company and battery technology isn't yet advanced enough to pivot. > "If you're a Super Duty customer towing 10,000 pounds in Montana or on the north slope of Alaska," he said. "An electric vehicle is an awful solution, the batteries are too heavy."
throwawaylinux 4y ago
> Happily, the F-150 Lightning is a terrific F-150 — and a terrific truck. If you can find one to buy for a reasonable price and you’ve got a handle on charging for how you’ll use it, it’s clearly a better choice than a gas-powered truck. So... if you manage to buy one for much less than they sell for, and if the downsides of electric are not a problem for you, it's a better choice than paying market price for a gas truck?
modeless 4y ago
It's really funny to see the cargo cult design coming out of all the car companies switching to electric. "Tesla has a giant touchscreen, therefore our EV must have a giant touchscreen different than all our other models." "Tesla has OTA updates, therefore our EV must have OTA updates even though our other models don't." "Tesla has a 3D render of the car interior for climate control adjustment, therefore our EV must have a 3D render of the car interior for climate control adjustment even though our other models don't." etc etc
julianlam 4y ago
I've always been of the opinion that automobile manufacturers have no business writing software. They just don't have the capability (currently) to do a good job. What they should have done is deliver kick-ass hardware in-tandem with CarPlay and Android Auto, and make THAT software first-class citizens. Every manufacturer is investing as little as they can on in-house (or off-shore) software teams to write crappy UIs on pretty crappy hardware, and meanwhile we're sitting in our cars with computers in our pockets with enough calculating power to send a rocket to the moon.
- bdamm 4y ago
  Well, not every manufacturer. There is one notable automaker that has, is still, and will continue to invest enormous sums of money on the software.
  - askafriend 4y ago
    It is the manufacturer whose name must remain unsaid.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
milkthefat 4y ago
Reading this article and the comments is frustrating given everything about these infotainment systems has been the same for 10+ years with very little improvements. Its embarrassing an iPad from 2012 can out perform these multi-thousand dollar car systems in both UX and speed. I was hoping the tesla experience would light a fire in traditional car companies making it more a priority but here we are basically just using the system as a screen to project our phones “car mode”. If it were possible I would rather buy a car with a floating usb-c mount for a tablet than pay 5k for an expensive system that I “basically” only use the display to mirror my phone. My PoR: I use ford sync 3.x daily and recently used several popular models of Subaru, Hyundai, Dodge, and Porsche.
- sneak 4y ago
  It's not getting better because people keep buying them. Shitty UX for the infotainment console doesn't stop people buying something that starts and drives from A to B (so long as it has bluetooth audio reception). The screen people use while driving is the one that lets them scroll Instagram.
35mm 4y ago
Is it just me that wants an EV with just ‘dumb’ switches on the dash? I find car companies overstretch with trying to make fancy touchscreens etc. Plus in car computers go out of date much quicker than motors and batteries. Just give me some robust physical switches for the important stuff, and an empty space to put my phone / tablet. That also has the benefit of being able to keep looking out the windscreen while driving, if I need to turn the air on on, rather than opening a ‘climate control’ menu on some creatively designed touch screen.
- Sponge5 4y ago
  Exactly, I've been changing my consumer habits towards products that either don't need maintenance at all (GoRuck) or are optimized for ease of maintenance (Fairphone). Sadly haven't found an EV (or a modern IC engine car) that matches these criteria. All the systems and components are sitting on a CAN bus anyway, in the base configuration you can just control the CAN master with analog switches like in the old days.. You can make a paid mobile app for the same controls but digital (and allow more fine-tuning). This eliminates the display from the car though, so I guess a parking camera is a no-go. All you need hardware-wise on the car at that point would be a CAN Master device with bluetooth, which is a stupid ESP32.
rfwhyte 4y ago
I absolutely LOATHE the Verge's reviews. Just such low effort, "Let's talk about how this thing makes me FEEL rather than how it PERFORMS" garbage for an ostensibly tech focused website. Like they don't actually compare the Lightning against any of it's competitors, have no charts or graphs showcasing performance relative to competitors, ICE trucks, or over time, and they completely ignore one of the most damning performance downsides of electric trucks, that being their greatly reduced range when towing or carrying heavy payloads. Seriously, Verge's reviews are some of the lowest quality content from any so called "Major" tech site.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Vrondi 4y ago
The thing I don't understand is that a huge portion of the Americans who drive pickup trucks do not live in the big expensive cities, but in rural areas with lower costs of living, yet the prices are so high. Pricing pickup trucks at half to 2/3 of the cost of the house mortgage for customers just seems... stupid. They're pricing them at double the gas models in some cases and acting like they're luxury cars. If anyone were willing or able to cut back on automated touchscreen gadget headaches and offer a solid EV utility pickup, then EV adoption could be vastly accelerated in the USA.

230 points by stalfosknight 4y ago

throw03172019 4y ago

They strapped on an Android tablet and called it a day. From my experience (ex-mobile game dev, Medical SaaS), Android tablets are very slow. We encourage our customers to not buy Android tablets because the patient experience is not the greatest.

markus92 4y ago
Not even Android, according to the article. That's coming next year, now it's a proprietary Ford system.
sjm-lbm 4y ago
Current versions of the Ford infotainment platform are based on QNX, actually. The article mentions that Ford is switching to Android, but that hasn't happened yet.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  Why is Ford switching away from a RTOS with a great history in the automotive space to try to force me to have something to do with Google?
  - rektide 4y ago
    Because there's a vibrant ecosystem around Android with wonderful third party support, with a rich platform & ecosystem already well known & loved by many developers & consumers alike. Where-as QNX is a toolkit for building one-off custom appliances that no third party will ever see or improve or enrich. One is a dead end stuck in a niche, the other realized it had to create more value than it captured. And generally the Google open ecosystem one is pretty ok.
    - NotYourLawyer 4y ago
      Android is cheaper because it hoovers up the “owner’s” data.
      - rnk 4y ago
        That may be, but it wins because it's vastly better than all the alternatives, except tesla or a few other leading 'new car companies' like rivian.
        HWR_14 4y ago
        How on earth is it "better"? Dumb cars are better. Obviously, I want the EV to have mission critical things related to it being an EV, but there's no reason for anything else to get fancy. Tesla has the worst cockpit experience because it's a single large screen.
        prepend 4y ago
        It’s not as good as my dumb bmw “connected drive” from 5 years ago.
        kernal 4y ago
        Is that why BMW is integrating Android Automotive? https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0401875EN/bmw-group-expands-%E2%80%9Cbmw-operating-system-8%E2%80%9D-with-a-variant-that-integrates-%E2%80%9Candroid-automotive-os%E2%80%9D?language=en https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T040187...
        HWR_14 4y ago
        Because it's cheaper for BMW, not because it's better for their customers.
        kernal 4y ago
        So you know what's better for BMW customers than BMW? Have you informed BMW of this revelation?
pkulak 4y ago
It has to be an automotive-grade screen or one afternoon in a Phoenix parking lot will be the end of it. It's absolutely not a tablet, or even a part from one.

r00fus 4y ago

Does it do CarPlay/Android Auto? If that's the case, I honestly don't really care how fast it is - I have an older EV with Sync3 and it's fine (more than fine, I just use my smartphone for most interactions using CarPlay). The only thing I may dislike is not having physical buttons/dials for climate.

aaronbrethorst 4y ago
this is addressed in the article. You can just Cmd/Ctrl+F for the word CarPlay for an answer. There’s a quick action button to navigate back home on the map widget, but it just opens the map app full-screen, defeating the purpose of the widget entirely. I’d love to have CarPlay open to handle my phone and messaging alongside the radio, but that’s not possible, even though the display is clearly big enough to show both at once. All of that is made worse by how slow everything is. Switching between the radio and the map or the map and CarPlay is… slow. Swiping along the cards is pretty slow. The display can be responsive, and the games are certainly playable, but in most instances, it’s just slow. This is the point in any car review where many people are already drafting emails to me about just using CarPlay or Android Auto instead of the stock software, but friends, CarPlay and Android Auto are not good at helping EV owners navigate charging. If you want to plot out a route with accurate range estimates and an effective charging strategy, you have to use the built-in nav — especially since Ford has taken the time to organize charging stations by speed, and seeking out 150kW fast chargers is an important part of the Lightning experience because the battery is so big. Apple and Google are a long way behind on this front.
- master_crab 4y ago
  “If you want to plot out a route with accurate range estimates and an effective charging strategy, you have to use the built-in nav” I saw that phrase in the story and came here to comment and saw this thread. I think we should be honest with ourselves about recent history: Apple and Google will be quicker to roll out functionality for EV specific navigation (i.e. chargers) in their apps then car manufacturers will be to fix their UI problems. Edit: I also dont want to spend $xxx a year on map updates from manufacturers when Apple Maps are free (I understand I’m not the customer with Google even if their mapping product is great) and better

Rooster61 4y ago

It's incredibly frustrating to me that buying a vehicle with a pushbutton, working, reliable interface is becoming increasingly impossible to do. Why is UX so horrifically bad in the vehicle space? Is it poor management decisions or a shortage of good UX engineers? I get that lumping everything into the touchscreen can be a cheaper option to build, but I'd GLADLY pay for a different option. I don't understand it.

mint2 4y ago
Cars seating is horrible and bad for backs. Trends, tradition and short term cost decide most design considerations not practicality or what’s best.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  Depends on the car and the person. I have back problems and almost no office chairs are usable for me. I can easily drive 10 hours in my car with no issues. Sometimes, my back feels better after a drive that long.
- boc 4y ago
  I wouldn't say this is universally true. Lexus and Volvo tend to make amazing car seats. I say this after driving 2000 miles last week and not feeling a thing in my old Lexus GX.
bowsamic 4y ago
The entire auto industry is driven by hype and trends rather than functionality
- 7952 4y ago
  Yes. Just look at the appalling forward blind spot on a lot of trucks and SUVs. Or the way cars have become taller at the expense of aerodynamics.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago

itsoktocry 4y ago

>Ford’s entire suite of driver-assistance tech is called “BlueCruise,” which is deeply confusing because it means that everything from boring old cruise control to full-on hands-free driving is technically “BlueCruise.” This seems far less confusing than the Autopilot and FSD bifurcation that Tesla has. It beeps at you to get your hands on the wheel when you're trying to autosteer in places it's not allowed. Sounds reasonable, no?

warty_affrays 4y ago
Do you think it would be more or less confusing if Autopilot and FSD were both called them same name?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

andrewla 4y ago

Generally speaking the horrifying quality of Ford's electronics have been enough to keep me away from even considering purchasing one. Absolutely nothing works right and certainly nothing works well. It may or may not be able to connect bluetooth, it may or may not acknowledge a USB device, it may or may not start blaring whatever FM station was last tuned in for no reason on startup, or start playing the first album on your phone. Phone audio will sometimes play as media, and sometimes show up as phone calls. And of course, cripplingly slow, which for a touchscreen is deadly -- you have no idea whether or not the system even realized that you pressed it, and when you mash the button more than once you may find that you've clicked a button on a not-yet-visible-screen. Absolute garbage. Mazda is apparently taking the right approach here -- increasing the tactile buttons on the dash and console, and ditching touchscreens. Really, cars should just have a built-in phone mount and connectors, and just let the phone do pretty much everything. If Ford wants to have a map of charging stations, partner with Apple or Google (or Waze) or build their own OSM-based maps app. Apple CarPlay and Android Auto are okay-ish, but frankly I find the experience of just having the phone on a mount and using that as the display to be far superior in almost every way.

codazoda 4y ago
This happens in every car I own. Chevy. Kia. Ram. I agree the phone should do everything. The equivalent of an old aux cord (maybe via BT) would be enough. My Kia does have CarPlay, which is very nice for maps and audio, but that’s all I really use. It still has all kinds of issues. My wife plugs in her phone (cable) and it takes over, then suddenly mine wins it back, she flicks some stuff on her screen to get it back again. Pretty messy in all cars I’ve used.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  I have had no issues with wired CarPlay. Do you have wireless CarPlay? I have not heard of that being reliable yet. If both of you are wiring into CarPlay, I do not see why Kia would allow two wired connections to CarPlay.
  - 4y ago

johnklos 4y ago

Android? So now our cars will stop working and/or will become hopelessly insecure when Google and Ford decide to stop updating them?

johnklos 4y ago
- pkulak 4y ago
  I'm firmly in the camp that it's not patriotic to stylize the American flag in any way... but I'd love it if you expanded on how this version is racist.
  - LeoPanthera 4y ago
    The "thin blue line" flag is used almost exclusively by the far-right, and more specifically by white supremacists. The flag on the Lightning isn't that flag, but it does resemble it.
    - pkulak 4y ago
      Oh interesting. Just looked it up, and the thin blue line flag is black and white. Don't think I've ever seen a black and white American flag before.
      - davidw 4y ago
        I'm not up on all the details, but those grayed out flags do seem to have some particular associations. Nothing wrong with a regular old flag IMO.
    - namecheapTA 4y ago
      And here I was thinking it was used by people that appreciate their local police force and understand the stresses they are under.

tablespoon 4y ago

> ...the Mustang Mach-E and the Lightning have a 15.5-inch portrait center screen running Sync 4A, which is the same as Sync 4 with the addition of touchscreen climate controls and widgets that fill out the vertical height of the display. Why??? Climate controls should not be on a touchscreen. Display is fine, but control is not. Just leave space for some knobs and a mode switch.

foxyv 4y ago
I don't know about the F150 Lightning, but the Fords I've seen all use a HOTAS style setup where the climate, radio, etc... are all controlled by buttons on the steering wheel. The touchscreen is more for passengers.
- russb 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOTAS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOTAS "HOTAS, an acronym of hands on throttle-and-stick"
zip1234 4y ago
The Mach E climate controls on the touchscreen are fine. With modern cars, mostly just set it to the temp you like and leave it. It isn't like old cars where constant fiddling with fan and temp to get everything correct is needed.
- rascul 4y ago
  > With modern cars, mostly just set it to the temp you like and leave it. It isn't like old cars where constant fiddling with fan and temp to get everything correct is needed. Opposite for me. I can set and forget the old style. This auto crap requires constant adjustment to keep me comfortable.

olivermarks 4y ago

Right now automotive UI's and sw are in the equivalent of pre iphone era mobile phone jankyness, just good at one or two things with a ton of cruft that doesn't work well. We all know BEVs are fast - even a 1960's UK electric milkfloat is amazingly speedy from standstill - but I'd say Ford are years away from their BEVs being viable and reliable, not least due to lack of charging network. The lousy towing performances on BEV trucks rings alarm bells too. https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-electric-truck-towing-test/ https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-elect... A little off topic but it appears Anne Heche's vehicle was a hybrid or BEV and caused a huge fire, one of my biggest BEV concerns - It took nearly 60 firefighters more than an hour to douse the flames. https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2022/08/08/anne-heche-tested-drugs-alcohol-car-crash-police/10267671002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/202...

cpwright 4y ago
The lousy towing performance probably doesn't matter. 75% of truck owners tow one time a year or less. I've had my F-150 for 8 years 45,000 miles, and it's seen a trailer 3 times for a total of less than 400 miles. I'm close to being in the market for a new truck, and the biggest deal breaker for me with the lightning is the 5.5' box instead of the 6.5' box. Weighing over 6,000 lbs also means you can't register it as a passenger vehicle in NYS without capping it - meaning you can't drive on the parkways. https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...
- rnk 4y ago
  There were news articles that they revised this law for the rivian and presumably the f150ev. At first people ran into this weight / registration issue.
- matwood 4y ago
  I want my next truck to be an EV, but towing does matter to me. I hope by the time I replace my 2007 Tundra there will be an EV truck that does tow well. I just broke 130k miles, and easily have another 100k, so I have some time.

kkfx 4y ago

Cars OEMs know (in general, more or less) how to build cars. In electronics tend to be crappy at best in IT terms they are like classic dumb users, except they actually design crapware. It's not much Ford, it's ANY OEMs I know of...

bottlepalm 4y ago
(except Tesla who actually has their own hardware, software, dev team and frequently pushes updates for years)
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  And doesn't support basic functionality like CarPlay or Android Auto, which is supported by almost every other manufacturer even on their base model cheap cars.
  - natch 4y ago
    And other cars don't support Netflix, YouTube, Hulu, Twitch, and arcade games while in Park, which are great when waiting for something, as well as Spotify, TuneIn, etc., so I guess we're even? I'd rather have a bunch of competing services rather than just a generic UI from one vendor that's always pushing service upgrade packages like Apple One. I suspect CarPlay and Android Auto come with strings attached from Apple (must fall in line with the Apple walled garden rules) and Google (must track users on behalf of Google) so, no big loss.
    - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
      Nonsense. Android Auto (and likely CarPlay as well) is just a video player. They just take H.265 frames and feed it to the head unit, and feed user feedback back to the phone. Audio stack is I believe somehow piggybacked off Bluetooth, but I could be wrong. As far as I know no software from Google runs on the head unit itself.
      - 4y ago

Animats 4y ago

Does this mean you have to have a Google account to drive a Ford vehicle? That's no good.

eneumann 4y ago

As a cyclist, I'm super excited about one day being run over by one of these things. The giant vehicle trend is getting a lot of people killed. And why does any vehicle need to accelerate that quickly? It's irresponsible on public roads. I would really love to see acceleration and speed limiters on vehicles.

_dain_ 4y ago
agreed on everything except acceleration
misiti3780 4y ago
Not sure why you are so concerned with acceleration.... If you're on a bike, it doesnt matter if you get hit by a truck at 30, 45, or 60. You're most likely dead anyways, adnd if you survive, there is a good chance you wish you were dead.
- DangitBobby 4y ago
  The faster it's going when it hits you, the more you'll wish you were dead.
- srg0 4y ago
  If you hit a pedestrian: at 40 mph there is a 90 percent chance they will be killed. at 35 mph there is a 50 percent chance they will be killed. at 30 mph there is a 20 percent chance they will be killed. at 20 mph there is a 2.5 percent chance they will be killed. Source: https://www.roadwise.co.uk/using-the-road/speeding/the-chance-of-a-pedestrian-surviving/ https://www.roadwise.co.uk/using-the-road/speeding/the-chanc...
  - misiti3780 4y ago
    thanks, that is very interesting data, i wonder how they collected it. i supposed if you are on a bike wearing a helmet these percentages all go down....
dymk 4y ago

colechristensen 4y ago

Do fleet versions of new cars/trucks also have stupid touchscreens in them? Like a new F-450, is it driven by a shitty android tablet too?

subsubzero 4y ago

I don't know if its just me but electric trucks/cars and the buying experience there is one giant pit of frustration. I want to buy a electric truck, was thinking of a Rivian, but good luck getting one in the next 2-3 years. And if you do manage to get one watch out for your axel coming apart! [1], maybe I will get a lightning, looks like same leadtime issues, 2 years+ wait and they are totally changing the brain(from ford to android) so the ones now will be obsolete. Also from tesla to rivian all I hear are horror stories about the service, and tesla's build quality is nowhere near any of the traditional automakers(fit and finish). I just want to buy a reliable electric truck or suv that has a decent finish and don't want to wait 2-3 years, someone please take my money! [1] - https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/rivian-r1t-cv-axle-failure-missed-by-service-center.7404/page-4#post-189801 https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/rivian-r1t-cv-axl...

treesknees 4y ago
What you're asking for just doesn't exist yet. The marketing teams at these companies are clearly doing a great job selling these vehicles as reliable simple alternatives to ICE-powered, but that's just not the case. Ignoring all of the supply-chain issues from the pandemic lockdowns (shipping, chip shortages, labor shortages, etc.) you're still purchasing new technology that will take years to iron out the quality problems. I've friends who work in the automotive industry in various engineering roles and none of them are driving brand-new platforms because they know better. Just like the software world, manufacturers will take all of the maintenance data from dealerships and use it to improve the design and production. If you're OK with being the beta tester filing bug reports in this relationship, by all means, buy an electric truck.
- rnk 4y ago
  I'll agree with that. Yet I alsonever want to buy anything from an enforced middleman again. First I avoided that with Tesla, and now I did it with Rivian. It does have some bugs, so did my last car I bought 20 years ago form a major manufacturer.
  - 4y ago

prepend 4y ago

> but also a stopgap as Ford resets its entire software strategy around Android in partnership with Google. This doesn’t seem like a good idea because there are Android people and iOS people. Alienating a large swath of customers is not a good idea. That and I don’t want Google monitoring all my car data. One of the big reasons I don’t have a Tesla is their data policy. But I’d rather Tesla have my data than Google because at least it won’t be linked to everything else about me. Also, I want to drive cars for 10 or 20 years. Google has never maintained Android for that long. I’d rather just have an embedded os written and maintained by ford (that doesn’t suck).

ledauphin 4y ago
no car company "maintains" their embedded software, either. updates do happen, but there are no guarantees, no transparency, and essentially no aftermarket options for most modern cars.
- emkoemko 4y ago
  GMC wanted me to pay like 200-300$ to update the firmware.... to fix a bug i had with my truck.... i look forward to android :)
WorldMaker 4y ago
> This doesn’t seem like a good idea because there are Android people and iOS people Android Automotive (the "base OS" that's not even really "Android" in the way that you think of it from phones; the impression I have gathered is that it is a separate embedded Linux sharing only a few parts and iterating in a different pace) that Ford is moving to still supports Apple CarPlay as well as it supports Android Auto (the Apple CarPlay competitor). It's another fun place where Google's branding strategy confuses way more than it helps by having very similar names for very different products, in this case Android Automotive !== Android Auto. But yeah, the other complaints are valid: Android Automotive is still so new we have no idea if Google is truly in it for the long haul or if that's another badly named brand eventually likely to end up in the graveyard. I don't think we know how much data Google will be monitoring from it either.

twobitshifter 4y ago

With the performance of this and other EVs now beating the Raptor pickup, do you think we’ll start to see performance regulated for safety reasons? A massive pickup able to 0-60 in a few seconds is cool, but in the hands of the less responsible it sounds like a huge safety risk. We cap the performance of tiny scooters but multiton trucks are able to go as fast as humanly possible?

davidw 4y ago
Massive, heavy trucks with a blind spot, the ability to accelerate very rapidly, and a fiddly screen that you need to use even for the most basic of things like heating and cooling. What could possibly go wrong...
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namecheapTA 4y ago
Atleast when a Dodge Charger is charging up from behind, I can hear the thing. Pedestrians can hear the thing. When the demographic that currently commits most reckless driving eventually adopts electric cars, it's going to be a blood bath.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  That’s an interesting observation that I hadn’t considered. My enthusiasm for EVs has been pretty unmitigated previously. I still think climate is important enough that dealing with the safety stuff is probably tractable and also the lesser evil, but it’s good to have line of sight on it.
  - vanilla_nut 4y ago
    Unmitigated? Are you not worried about the infrastructure impact of doubling the weight of most classes of vehicle?
    - 4y ago

ggm 4y ago

What is the balance of experience between touch, aural/tactile/visua push response on screens, and actual physical buttons which go "click" and light up? I think the place we know most about this, is the Aircraft space. I am interested because I used to live in 'press it go click' world and now live half-blessed by a car with some controls which are real and a lot of controls which are soft, and I have to say I don't entirely like the experience. When you look at a Concorde control deck, its a 3 man (4 man?) crew, and its unbelievably complex. The replacement in a current spec Boeing or Airbus is simpler, but it's hardly one touch screen. Tesla has gone off the deep end.

aaronmdjones 4y ago
Older aircraft have the Flight Engineer position, which is the 3rd or 4th person in the Flight Deck. Modern aircraft do not need flight engineers because of the improvements we've been able to make to aircraft reliability, longevity, and ease of use; but at the time, they were worth their weight in gold and absolutely essential for any flight. Current-generation Boeing aircraft have what's called a "moonlit" configuration, which are switches with lights in them. When the lights are white, everything is okay. When they're yellow or red, something is wrong. When the lights are off, that system is off. Very easy UX. EDIT: Photo of the 787 Dreamliner overhead panel showing almost everything in yellow. https://media.wired.com/photos/5b33588d9a7504731f8815f5/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/ana787cockpit07.jpg https://media.wired.com/photos/5b33588d9a7504731f8815f5/mast...
- ggm 4y ago
  This is "we thought about it, and decided to keep real mechanical tactile switches" but also "behind the scenes, these may be like the apple mouse: there's a widgit to go "THUMP" when you press it" Given how many aircraft are fly-by-wire the physical tactile component of a lot of these must be notional, except for the ones which have fuses next to them and are literal cut-outs. You have a switch with a bump, which goes click. The valve 20m away quietly gets turned on by an actuator. The valve completes a circuit to a sensor, which sends a databus signal and the light in your tactile switch comes on.

jconley 4y ago

Can confirm. I have an F-150 Lightning. The UI sucks and is slow. Much worse than my Teslas. It takes like 30 seconds when I get in the truck and turn it on before it's even usable. Switching between CarPlay and the native interface is ridiculous. It's a great truck though. Love it. :) AMA.

rootusrootus 4y ago
One of these days we will have big enough batteries to power a superduty a reasonable distance. I can't wait. I've loved my EVs, now I want that for my F250.
- jconley 4y ago
  A bigger concern for me is the charging speed/infrastructure for what an F250/350 might want to do. For me, that's tow a 5th wheel or trailer a UTV for hundreds of miles. Need better infrastructure and much higher voltage packs to make that viable without spending hours at the chargers blocking parking lots.
misiti3780 4y ago
What is the real range vs EPA range?
- jconley 4y ago
  This is highly dependent on how you drive, elevation changes, weather conditions, load/trailer weight/aerodynamics, and average speeds. So... I've seen both better than EPA ratings and worse than EPA ratings. It's rated at 320 miles on the 131kwh battery, which is about 2.4 mi/kwh. I've driven at times ranging from 1.5mi/kwh to 3.5 mi/kwh. So, I think it's accurate for their mixed highway/city test. If you're doing pure highway and thinking about a road trip, that is worst case scenario. At like 70 mph it's going to be around 2-2.1 mi/kwh unladen, so it'll be less than EPA rated, faster speeds get worse due to aero. At 2 mi/kwh that's 262 miles of range. On a road trip I'd also keep the truck between 10-80% state of charge for optimal charge speeds, so I'd only get 70% of the range, or 183 miles. So I'd plan to stop every 150 miles or so. This is actually similar to my real world results driving a Tesla Model 3 and Y. For the most optimal total trip time you're usually stopping every 150-200 miles or so.

kodah 4y ago

> The result is that the software experience of the Lightning often feels trapped in the past, with no clear path to the future because Ford’s real software efforts lie elsewhere. I have a Ford Fusion. The software has remained essentially untouched since I bought it. They rely almost entirely on Android Auto, which has it's own host of bugs and incompatibilities. There's a primary learning from Tesla to be made here: infotainment is a core part of the business. Build it in house.

symlinkk 4y ago
I disagree, Android Auto and Apple CarPlay are great. The problem comes when the manufacturer’s interface collides with the Android / Apple interface. Just build a great touchscreen, let Android / Apple handle everything they can, and leave the rest (HVAC controls, volume controls) as physical buttons and switches. You get the best of both worlds - no need to pay an in house team of software engineers who will never be able to compete with Google or Apple anyway, and you please your customers who by and large want physical buttons and knobs.

bri3d 4y ago

It's been 10+ years since cars have gotten screwed in the Consumer Reports and other outlets for bad infotainment. What's the fix? VW's MIB2/MIB2.5 was pretty much the pinnacle of automotive head unit innovation, IMHO, and it wasn't due to the technology - it's QNX and J9 Java like so many head units before it. It just... worked, which seems a bridge too far for modern infotainment. I think C+D and other outlets need to start scoring cars based on their head units, or at least considering them. Much like tires, it's clear that these venues have enough power to bend the industry to some extent.

bombcar 4y ago
The problem is cars are bought entirely on other things, the infotainment is not even considered and is rarely a dealbreaker.
- digitalsushi 4y ago
  I cant purchase a car that doesnt let me just aim the fan at my face, and set the temperature to a specific mix of outside air and heated air. I dont want automatic environments. Fan, face, 16C/60F degrees every day of the year. There will come a day where we will prove I dont know what I want cause I cant buy it anymore.

WhitneyLand 4y ago

Any way to wire up 3rd party hardware buttons / switchgear? I don’t know if there’s any API access for non-critical functionality like climate control.

ubermonkey 4y ago

This is one of those things I'll never experience, and doubly so: I have no use for a truck (I live in a city), and I have never owned or wanted to own an American-made car. They're just all so _bad_.

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symlinkk 4y ago
What do you drive?
- ubermonkey 4y ago
  Hondas for a long time. Then a smattering of German makes before we got our GTI about 6 years ago.
samatman 4y ago
Can we get a few more paragraphs about you? You sound interesting, obviously you like to talk about yourself, got another anecdote?
- ubermonkey 4y ago
  Aren't you cute!

avidphantasm 4y ago

“the games are certainly playable” WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE GAMES ON A CAR?!?

jfabre 4y ago
because they will drive themselves soon.
hughes 4y ago
When you have to wait 20 to 40+ minutes for it to charge, having something to poke at for even a minute can help break up the monotony.
- misiti3780 4y ago
  read.

metadat 4y ago

Why are dealerships in the mix at all for Ford EVs? Seems like a good time to start selling direct to consumers over the web.

karaterobot 4y ago
Sounds like that's the plan, at least for the Model E division. https://jalopnik.com/ford-ceo-wants-to-abolish-the-dealership-experience-as-1849007700 https://jalopnik.com/ford-ceo-wants-to-abolish-the-dealershi...
colinmhayes 4y ago
Ford is not allowed to sell direct to consumers in I believe 48 states because they already have dealers. They're apparently planning on spinning off their electric division into an entirely new company to get around those laws, but remains to be seen.
sneak 4y ago
In most states in the US it is illegal for auto manufacturers to sell directly to the general public.

cmrdporcupine 4y ago

FWIW Ford was hiring around this area (southern Ontario) for software engineers to work on their in-car systems like this. Not sure if this specific one. From what I've heard they were woefully underpaying. A friend of mine talked to them -- very qualified; like me he worked on similar touchscreen, interactive display type systems at Google/Nest, and had a general background on similar systems, and on QNX, etc. They tried to lowball him badly. Like 1/2 the rate he asked for (contract) and probably 1/3rd or 1/4 what we made at Google. I saw a posting from them recently, again, and they were crowing about how they wanted to see candidate's GPA's etc. etc. I don't have a degree, so even if I hadn't heard about their low pay, I wouldn't even consider applying despite being probably very qualified for what they were doing. We had a whole team at Google that worked on getting rid of "jank" and improving FPS and performance on a really low-spec SoC. I wasn't any kind of expert on that team, but I learned a little. But they clearly weren't willing to pay reasonable for talent (like most local Canadian employers, frankly) All of this to say: You get what you pay for.

Dig1t 4y ago
I completely agree with your conclusion, this is why I feel that European tech companies can't compete with US ones at all. They just refuse to pay enough to attract the best engineers.
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  Well here's a North American company clearly not willing to pay competitive software engineering rates even within the continent, and trying to take advantage of sub-regional low rates. Like, they're not in Toronto, but just west of it, and companies there are paying less, so, hey, they should pay less, too, right? You get what you pay for. This is what happens when HR drones are allowed to do naive "compensation range surveys" for regions. They do not understand the subtleties of the market and try to lump people with specialized skills, lots of experience, etc. in with people fresh off the boat from overseas, pumping out bug fixes for boring internal legacy J2EE systems at ancient insurance companies. Companies like this will be in real trouble if remote work continues to be a thing. They better hope it doesn't.

partiallypro 4y ago

My dad has an F150 with Sync and it's so slow and bad. I've read this isn't uncommon in many manufacturers, even the Porsche 911 supposedly has a very slow computer system.

dieselgate 4y ago

Well no publicity is bad publicity I suppose. Hopefully the nav screen thing will improve in future releases of this truck. Most surprising was the frunk and blazing quick 0-60mph times (4.6s?)! Hope they work out for people,; still prefer my ‘88 f250 but the Lightning basically has equivalent, if not superior, specs

d1lanka 4y ago

I want to know if it's even remotely possible for a EV truck company like Rivian to unseat the F-150 as America's best selling truck within the next 5 years?

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
No. They simply do not have the manufacturing capacity/ability. Also Rivian only seems interested in manufacturing luxury vehicles. FWIW I own some Rivian stock.
hedora 4y ago
Rivian doesn't make a full size pickup truck. Their only bed length is far smaller than the smallest currently-available ICE truck beds. They make a really cool love child of a VW bus, Jeep and El Camino instead.

cavisne 4y ago

As much as Tesla's stock prices is inflated a lot of people dont appreciate just how behind the other car companies are when it comes to electric cars. Non tesla fast charging is an absolute disaster, likewise most/all of these companies havent figured out how to update software without plugging in a usb stick at a dealership. Maybe electric cars will be more like Apple/Samsung in terms of market share then the current range of car companies.

clouddrover 4y ago
> Non tesla fast charging is an absolute disaster Doesn't seem to be. Tesla's chargers have been behind the curve versus others with lower speeds, still only 400 volts, and only supporting one brand of car. Tesla is at least slowly starting to support other brands: - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ But Circle K, Gridserve, Ionity, etc. are better charging stops with faster chargers: - Circle K: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TVohXHjLro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TVohXHjLro - Gridserve: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoN4WCpuxHY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoN4WCpuxHY - Ionity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UAttTG03WA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UAttTG03WA
- jws 4y ago
  Not my side of the pond, but clicking around on Gridserve I'm only seeing a maximum charge rate of 60kW. I haven't found a Circle K above 50kW. Ionity has chargers that go to 350kW. For comparison, Tesla superchargers are 150kW or 250kW. That metric shouldn't be interpreted linearly. You only really saturate a charger for the first few minutes of a charge when fairly depleted. Above 15% to 40% of your battery capacity the charging rate slows down (depending on what sort of battery you have). As an example, a 2022 Lucid Air Dream Edition can use 350kW chargers. Going 20% to 80% on a 350kW is 31 minutes, and on a 150kW is 32 minutes. That's negligible. If you start lower than 20% then there is a bigger difference, but I picked 20-80 because it might match a person that exclusively uses non-home chargers. Data from chart in: https://insideevs.com/news/567714/lucid-air-fast-charging-comparison/ https://insideevs.com/news/567714/lucid-air-fast-charging-co... (Also, I suspect a real 20-80 test might show a bigger difference. The 0-20 part of that charge probably heated the battery up more on the 350kW.) Use cases matter a lot. The only time I use a supercharger is when I'm driving more than the range of my car in one trip, 900km is typical of a driving day for me. I'll stop 3 or 4 times at super chargers. Other than that I just charge off the regular old wall outlet in my garage. But if you live in a place without garages you will use chargers a lot and care about where they are located. I have to say a lot of the US superchargers are in odd places, like no bathroom available at night. Most of the rest are in the far corner of some enormous parking lot of an enormous grocery store. By the time you hike to the store, find a bathroom, buy a snack, and hike back to the car you are mostly done charging. Which brings me back to the parent post… "Location!" I absolutely prefer a Circle K with a supercharger. Short walk, open 24 hours, grab a snack, and back to the car with time to check email and maybe HN before heading back to the road.

ninefathom 4y ago

I'm struggling to reconcile these two: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-electric-truck-towing-test/ https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-elect... -- "the towing range of the electric F-150 is dismal." (~100 miles) https://www.theverge.com/23307298/ford-f-150-lightning-review https://www.theverge.com/23307298/ford-f-150-lightning-revie... -- "Happily, the F-150 Lightning is a terrific F-150 — and a terrific truck. If you can find one to buy for a reasonable price and you’ve got a handle on charging for how you’ll use it, it’s clearly a better choice than a gas-powered truck." So... what exactly does The Verge think that a pickup truck is used for? Spoiler alert: if they think it's for running the kids to soccer practice, occasionally moving some plants or lawn furniture, showing off your bling around town, or coping with thinning hair and loss of libido at midlife, there are far better EV options. And for those who are going to argue that the 100-mile range isn't an issue, even if your time is worth nothing, try getting a truck towing a camper into a typical service station parking lot some time. Once every 5+ hours is plenty, thanks. I'm all for EVs, and I'm certain they're the future of the automotive industry. I'm also certain that Ford has a long way to go before I'll even consider swapping my 35-year-old diesel F-250 HD for an electric hauling rig(1). Finally, based on the article, I'm fairly certain that the last thing the good editors at The Verge towed was a Radio Flyer. (Note 1: for those breaking out in a rash, I use the F-250 about once a month and it runs WVO. The daily driver is something with a much smaller carbon footprint.)

1-6 4y ago
Cut through all the marketing first.
jfim 4y ago
> I'm also certain that Ford has a long way to go before I'll even consider swapping my 35-year-old diesel F-250 HD for an electric hauling rig(1) It's not as if they're unaware of it. Their CEO even said that for some users, an electric truck won't work. From https://archive.ph/6Deq6 https://archive.ph/6Deq6: > Farley emphasized that Ford plans to continue investing in gasoline-powered vehicles, noting that the Super Duty pickup trucks generate huge revenue for the company and battery technology isn't yet advanced enough to pivot. > "If you're a Super Duty customer towing 10,000 pounds in Montana or on the north slope of Alaska," he said. "An electric vehicle is an awful solution, the batteries are too heavy."

throwawaylinux 4y ago

> Happily, the F-150 Lightning is a terrific F-150 — and a terrific truck. If you can find one to buy for a reasonable price and you’ve got a handle on charging for how you’ll use it, it’s clearly a better choice than a gas-powered truck. So... if you manage to buy one for much less than they sell for, and if the downsides of electric are not a problem for you, it's a better choice than paying market price for a gas truck?

modeless 4y ago

It's really funny to see the cargo cult design coming out of all the car companies switching to electric. "Tesla has a giant touchscreen, therefore our EV must have a giant touchscreen different than all our other models." "Tesla has OTA updates, therefore our EV must have OTA updates even though our other models don't." "Tesla has a 3D render of the car interior for climate control adjustment, therefore our EV must have a 3D render of the car interior for climate control adjustment even though our other models don't." etc etc

julianlam 4y ago

I've always been of the opinion that automobile manufacturers have no business writing software. They just don't have the capability (currently) to do a good job. What they should have done is deliver kick-ass hardware in-tandem with CarPlay and Android Auto, and make THAT software first-class citizens. Every manufacturer is investing as little as they can on in-house (or off-shore) software teams to write crappy UIs on pretty crappy hardware, and meanwhile we're sitting in our cars with computers in our pockets with enough calculating power to send a rocket to the moon.

bdamm 4y ago
Well, not every manufacturer. There is one notable automaker that has, is still, and will continue to invest enormous sums of money on the software.
- askafriend 4y ago
  It is the manufacturer whose name must remain unsaid.

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milkthefat 4y ago

Reading this article and the comments is frustrating given everything about these infotainment systems has been the same for 10+ years with very little improvements. Its embarrassing an iPad from 2012 can out perform these multi-thousand dollar car systems in both UX and speed. I was hoping the tesla experience would light a fire in traditional car companies making it more a priority but here we are basically just using the system as a screen to project our phones “car mode”. If it were possible I would rather buy a car with a floating usb-c mount for a tablet than pay 5k for an expensive system that I “basically” only use the display to mirror my phone. My PoR: I use ford sync 3.x daily and recently used several popular models of Subaru, Hyundai, Dodge, and Porsche.

sneak 4y ago
It's not getting better because people keep buying them. Shitty UX for the infotainment console doesn't stop people buying something that starts and drives from A to B (so long as it has bluetooth audio reception). The screen people use while driving is the one that lets them scroll Instagram.

35mm 4y ago

Is it just me that wants an EV with just ‘dumb’ switches on the dash? I find car companies overstretch with trying to make fancy touchscreens etc. Plus in car computers go out of date much quicker than motors and batteries. Just give me some robust physical switches for the important stuff, and an empty space to put my phone / tablet. That also has the benefit of being able to keep looking out the windscreen while driving, if I need to turn the air on on, rather than opening a ‘climate control’ menu on some creatively designed touch screen.

Sponge5 4y ago
Exactly, I've been changing my consumer habits towards products that either don't need maintenance at all (GoRuck) or are optimized for ease of maintenance (Fairphone). Sadly haven't found an EV (or a modern IC engine car) that matches these criteria. All the systems and components are sitting on a CAN bus anyway, in the base configuration you can just control the CAN master with analog switches like in the old days.. You can make a paid mobile app for the same controls but digital (and allow more fine-tuning). This eliminates the display from the car though, so I guess a parking camera is a no-go. All you need hardware-wise on the car at that point would be a CAN Master device with bluetooth, which is a stupid ESP32.

rfwhyte 4y ago

I absolutely LOATHE the Verge's reviews. Just such low effort, "Let's talk about how this thing makes me FEEL rather than how it PERFORMS" garbage for an ostensibly tech focused website. Like they don't actually compare the Lightning against any of it's competitors, have no charts or graphs showcasing performance relative to competitors, ICE trucks, or over time, and they completely ignore one of the most damning performance downsides of electric trucks, that being their greatly reduced range when towing or carrying heavy payloads. Seriously, Verge's reviews are some of the lowest quality content from any so called "Major" tech site.

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Vrondi 4y ago

The thing I don't understand is that a huge portion of the Americans who drive pickup trucks do not live in the big expensive cities, but in rural areas with lower costs of living, yet the prices are so high. Pricing pickup trucks at half to 2/3 of the cost of the house mortgage for customers just seems... stupid. They're pricing them at double the gas models in some cases and acting like they're luxury cars. If anyone were willing or able to cut back on automated touchscreen gadget headaches and offer a solid EV utility pickup, then EV adoption could be vastly accelerated in the USA.