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My method sure hasn't worked very well... or has it? I was looking for cheap warehouse space to start a business in, and did a nation-wide search for the larges

• GauntletWizard 4y ago
  Promote yourself and your town. I'm looking for a new home in the same way as the OP, and my best hope is that a few dozen like-minded nerds will gentrify a small town, because they have been so undercut by cities of late.
  • neilv 4y ago
    > a few dozen like-minded nerds will gentrify a small town How does one do this in such a way that it's welcomed by people who already make their home there? (I can imagine a lot of ways this could go work out badly, but don't immediately know a good approach.)
    • solar-ice 4y ago
      You don't. Gentrifying a place pretty inherently means removing at least some of the people who live there. Why would the people of a small town go for that? Unless you're planning on subsidising the existing residents' lives forever as rent goes up. If you have the money and influence to "gentrify" somewhere... just build a new planned community in the middle of nowhere. The US has plenty of nowhere.
      • ternaryoperator 4y ago
        > Gentrifying a place pretty inherently means removing at least some of the people who live there. Not necessarily. You could buy a house that's empty.
        • solar-ice 4y ago
          And when the rent for the neighbour gets raised double because you started attracting people willing to pay double to move there...?
          • yebyen 4y ago
            > attracting people willing to pay double to move there What active behavior are we actually talking about? Making the place nicer? I feel like there's got to be actual some breathing room between "savior of the murder capital Pine Bluff" and "big bad real estate investor gentrifying people out of their homes."
          • pc86 4y ago
            I don't know if you've ever lived in a place like Pine Bluff, but most people own. It's 52% in the city[0] and I imagine quite a bit higher (70-80% wouldn't surprise me) in the more rural areas. And keep in mind the way these statistics are calculated, all the vacant buildings count as part of that 48%, so the number of renters is likely ~1/3 or less the number of owners. So unlike places with very high rents but also where it seems like 3/4 of all buildings are rented out, most people in Pine Bluff would be objectively better off if rents doubled overnight with corresponding increases to the economy and local services. To be blunt, if you're renting you have no claim to the property or lodging beyond the term of the lease. That's the entire point. I do believe human beings have a right to housing, but you do not have the right to live in someone else's house if they don't want you there. [0] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/pinebluffcityarkansas https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/pinebluffcityarkansas
      • juve1996 4y ago
        > Why would the people of a small town go for that? Because people are leaving in droves, only old people there are dying off, kids moved to better places, and the economy is dead? > If you have the money and influence to "gentrify" somewhere... just build a new planned community in the middle of nowhere. The US has plenty of nowhere. Seems like a waste of resources. The US has had countless migrations within its borders during its existence. Why should we force people not to settle in places with dire economic circumstances and almost no future without outside influx?
    • notatoad 4y ago
      Give them money. Directly or not. If you're a rich person moving into a poor town, the only way to not piss off the locals is to make them richer. If you can make the whole town richer, you'll be welcomed. Whatever portion of the locals that you don't make richer will hate you. If you don't want to piss off the locals, and you don't want to employ the locals, this is a very expensive plan.
      • Eupraxias 4y ago
        Why do you think they won't take your money and still hate you out of town? That's what I have seen.
        • pc86 4y ago
          Where have you seen that?
          • Eupraxias 4y ago
            Rural Vermont. The story is worthy of a screenplay. Small town starts to tax a family for the commercial water line in a general store that closed in the 60's, that happens to be on the property, because, small town. Family has visions of a B&B, vineyard, wedding venue. Everything down the drain in the end, because lawyers are expensive. Still there to this day: worn out stencil on the window of the 'general store'. "Sorry, we closed in 1968".
            • notatoad 4y ago
              giving the town tax money isn't going to do it. you need to make the people in the town richer, and most of the people aren't going to see a dollar of that tax money. at least, not directly or in the short term.
              • Eupraxias 4y ago
                The family in this situation had business plans that would have done just that, (B&B and a wedding venue), in a town of 300 where there is only a restaurant (catering) and a general store (everything else). The family sourced and bought everything not just locally, but from the town and surrounding farms (all dairy, meat, and produce) The tax was imposed to get the family out of the town, and it worked - the family is not rich. In the end, they had to sell their family home (which had been in the family since the 1930's) and leave (which they did). They were taxed out because the family is notoriously progressive, and the town is very much the opposite. There was cultural friction. Keep in mind that this was 20 years ago. These were very polite 60's era hippies, all college-edumacated and everything - and the (very small, very tight) town didn't want them in it. The town hall imposed a (crazy) tax, and they had to leave. Depending on where you are, some value preserving a local culture over 'getting richer'.
    • AussieWog93 4y ago
      I mean, simplest way would be to build a plant that creates hundreds of well-paying jobs. Companies do this all the time.
  • tacitusarc 4y ago
    I’m sure you didn’t intend it this way, but this comment comes across as incredibly arrogant and unfeeling.
    • newshorts 4y ago
      Was going to say something similar. Having grown up in a small idyllic town, there was beauty in the slow struggle to live there. OP would do well to try and learn the culture before seeking to change it. There’s value beyond “cheaper houses” and “craft beer” in these places.
      • symlinkk 4y ago
        By “the culture” are you referring to the high murder rate?
      • le-mark 4y ago
        As someone from a small town in a rural area, can you expand on what values you have in mind? What I saw was grinding poverty, bad schools, bottom tier education, and rampant drug abuse. Coincidentally the novel/film Winter’s Bone author portrayed this area, north Arkansas and southern Missouri.
        • telesilla 4y ago
          The excellent serial podcast S*Town did a great job too, on exploring these themes. https://stownpodcast.org/ https://stownpodcast.org/
      • pc86 4y ago
        I grew up in a small town, too. Some are better than others. There doesn't seem to be any redeeming quality to Pine Bluff.
    • 55555 4y ago
      To you (and others), but not to everyone.
  • aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
    >a few dozen like-minded nerds will gentrify a small town Sounds like a sure plan to get your tires slashed, if not your head bashed.
• throwaway5959 4y ago
  A few months ago my wife and I drove through Arkansas and saw a road side billboard for a white pride website and radio program (“Don’t be ashamed of your race”). Hard pass no matter what the price.
  • camdenlock 4y ago
  • luckyhn 4y ago
    This feels like a bait, since Pine Bluff is almost 80% black.
    • throwaway5959 4y ago
      https://ibb.co/tPbXWhB https://ibb.co/tPbXWhB Taken on I62 on the drive into Harrison.
      • luckyhn 4y ago
        Not doubting that you saw a sign like that in the state, but what do racists in the Ozarks have to have to do with parent's business problems. Pretty bait-y.
        • throwaway5959 4y ago
          Wow you’re really obtuse aren’t you. This is a comment more about the OP asking for prod/cons of small towns and me commenting on that. If you don’t have a problem with this kind of thing, by all means move there.
          • luckyhn2 4y ago
      • Natsu 4y ago
        I believe you about the billboard, but man, that is the blurriest picture and I can't make out a single word on that sign.
• ltbarcly3 4y ago
  I think most places aren't one of the highest crime cities in the country? I don't think the mistake you made was moving from cities, it was moving to one of the worst towns in the country. Pine Bluff is the #4 highest crime area in the entire country!! https://247wallst.com/city/pine-bluff-ar-is-among-the-most-dangerous-us-metro-areas/ https://247wallst.com/city/pine-bluff-ar-is-among-the-most-d...
  • selimthegrim 4y ago
    Nicknames I heard were “Pine Box” or “Crime Bluff” (from a native who proceeded to stiff me of $150 so I should have known better than dealing with him to begin with)
    • selimthegrim 4y ago
      Definitely an AR native but he might have been from the Ozarks rather than PB now that I think of it.
• listenallyall 4y ago
  What were you expecting? Did you think about why that warehouse in that location was being sold for so little?
• closeparen 4y ago
  I would expect big money coming into a small town to face serious static from local authorities unless and until you're cozied up to its political scene.
  • aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    Nobody saying or reading this sees this as a problem?
    • MarkPNeyer 4y ago
      Governments are just mafias with better PR.
    • Eupraxias 4y ago
      Sure it's a problem, but it's very real. I have experienced an inverse correlation of town size vs. corruption: in my experience, the smaller the town, the more off-the-charts the corruption. YMMV.
      • sam345 4y ago
        I can think of many exceptions to this both on large and small "towns" and depending on what is meant by corruption. E.g., NYC is very large but not exactly friendly to business nor easy to navigate unless you have lots of money to spread around to "permit expeditors"" and oddly interested neighborhood groups and of course lots of lawyers and even then it's a roll of the dice on whether you'll be allowed to operate in an economically viable manner.
    • ryanmercer 4y ago
      This individual claims to have swooped into town and bought SEVENTY-SIX properties with no documented experience doing this sort of thing. I see nothing wrong with the fact that he's having trouble doing what he wants, he probably isn't coming close to remotely following proper procedure and clearly lacks experience, as he stated that he could barely even afford the first property - a 220k square foot warehouse he bought with apparently no business and no experience owning warehouses. Given it's a town of 40k people, I doubt there's rampant corruption and more OP just doesn't have any idea how anything works at all. If any of his statements are true, this guy needs to stop what he's doing and learn how to adult.
• Gigachad 4y ago
  Just skimming the Wikipedia page for that place shows red flags all over the place. The population has been sharply declining since 1970 and the homicide rate is 56 per 100,000 vs the national average of 6.5. Clearly something is very wrong with the local government and population.
  • throwaway787544 4y ago
    It's called poverty. Welcome to rural America. Went down the shitter when industry left and the rest of the country ignored it for decades, so now we have MAGA, drugs and crime, and a whole lotta cheap land.
    • sfvegandude 4y ago
      “The rest of the country ignored it” Is this how local residents feel? I find this sentiment rather confusing. Rural places tend to be distrustful of central government. Meaning, they are happy to be ignored by “the rest of the country” since those outsiders don’t share their values.
      • throwaway787544 4y ago
        Local residents do feel that way. They have no money, no education, no job prospects, and don't feel they get respect. The fact that their cultural values are also at odds with the "haves" (in their view) further cements the view. But in a very real policy and economic sense, they literally were abandoned when industry left. Wall Street and Tech zoomed on while their factories and mines closed with no recourse to be able to recover from the economic vacuum.
        • selimthegrim 4y ago
          Is there not a college there, UAPB? How is it helping them?
          • throwaway787544 4y ago
• braingenious 4y ago
  This is easily in the top 5 funniest posts I’ve ever read on the internet in my decades online. Have you considered selling?
• 78124781 4y ago
  Wow, Pine Bluff is quite a place to move to out the blue. Still, there's good interstate access and a local state U. Curious why the city is so reluctant to support new businesses. You might try Jonesboro, Fort Smith, or Hot Springs if you're looking for cheap nearby places. North Little Rock or someplace in NW Arkansas too would have more nearby amenities, albeit at higher (though still quite affordable nationally) prices.
  • ryanmercer 4y ago
    >Curious why the city is so reluctant to support new businesses. I'm guessing the town wants him to do very basic stuff to get the property up to code, and he doesn't want to. Anther person pointed out in a comment that comment chain OPs twitter had posts about about holding somebody at gunpoint in apparent frustration. To me it sounds like OP knew absolutely nothing about commercial real-estate, absolutely nothing about local laws, and plopped down a bunch of money on a property without doing some homework.
    • daurnimator 4y ago
      > I'm guessing the town wants him to do very basic stuff to get the property up to code, and he doesn't want to. It looks like he wants to but the city won't let him. e.g. https://twitter.com/pontifier/status/1534754382885052417 https://twitter.com/pontifier/status/1534754382885052417
      • a2tech 4y ago
        This is a process problem. The correct order to do things is: pull permit to fix plumbing, that permit will allow you to connect to the city water for testing purposes once you've proven the system will hold pressure (initial inspection), then when you're connected to the water an additional inspection will be done to verify working plumbing, if thats the only outstanding issue you can apply for a certificate of occupancy, otherwise you move onto other work. Dealing with the government on things like this can be EXTREMELY frustrating especially if you're not used to running in those circles. Its a lot of things to learn and the people involved assume you know everything and when you get difficult they have a million ways to make your life more annoying.
• VoodooJuJu 4y ago
  >I ended up buying about 75 more properties here You have the kind of money to casually buy up all this real estate, but you still went bargain-hunting for a warehouse? This reads like some kind of LARP or joke.
  • missedthecue 4y ago
    Judging by the content on his Twitter account he seems legitimate
  • jbverschoor 4y ago
    So now he has to buy/build a police station, fire brigade etc for his own little town of 75 properties he created.
    • paulcole 4y ago
      Just put the police and fire stations inside a little square of industrial or commercial buildings.
      • GLGirty 4y ago
        And build one unit of transit next to them, it doesn't matter if the road or rail is connected.
  • navane 4y ago
    Isn't the bargain hunting mentality what got him to buy so many properties?
    • implements 4y ago
      Perhaps there’s some logic in thinking that once your stake is big enough the local politicians will start cooperating with you … ? (Clay Davis has entered the chat)
      • andrepd 4y ago
• braingenious 4y ago
  Do you share a username between HN and Twitter? Because somebody with your username on Twitter has been publicly talking about holding somebody at gunpoint in Pine Bluff, Arkansas earlier today(1), and has in the past advertised (2) a website with the tagline of “Matching vigilantes with victims for justice and profit “ (3) 1. https://twitter.com/pontifier/status/1559001472746098693?s=21&t=4YEHsr6SNacC5HJ4QXE3Ig https://twitter.com/pontifier/status/1559001472746098693?s=2... 2. https://twitter.com/oriwa_/status/1559042188608405505?s=21&t=4YEHsr6SNacC5HJ4QXE3Ig https://twitter.com/oriwa_/status/1559042188608405505?s=21&t... and https://twitter.com/pontifier/status/1538230779658002432?s=21&t=4YEHsr6SNacC5HJ4QXE3Ig https://twitter.com/pontifier/status/1538230779658002432?s=2... 3. https://www.bensforbars.com https://www.bensforbars.com
  • _nothing 4y ago
    The photo on his Twitter account has one of the websites listed in his HN profile (Crossies) in the background, so I'm assuming that's him.
  • sacrosancty 4y ago
    You make him sound like some sort of violent vigilante kidnapper. Held an intruder at gunpoint after calling police.
    • interdrift 4y ago
      Honestly looking into his issues, seems like he's getting dealt some bad cards after investing into a city that is letting him down.
      • pclmulqdq 4y ago
        Honestly, it looks like he isn't going about trying to work with the city very well. He also has videos on there of him lecturing public officials about how slow they are. At the same time, he is trying to build a fusion generator, a science museum, an industrial space, and a few internet businesses that seem to need a secure facility. The planning commission probably has no idea what to do with him, and it doesn't sound like he is employing very many people from the local community. If I were on that city council, I would also be skeptical of the rich guy who bought a warehouse to play around but not actually run any serious business.
• imgabe 4y ago
  Out of curiosity, what did you use to conduct a nationwide search where you can set price / sf parameters? Is there a tool that can do that, or did you piece together data from multiple sources? I've heard most of the commercial real estate that's publicly listed is just the deals that the pros have already passed on.
  • pontifier 4y ago
    It was just a search on loopnet.com. You can do a map search and "remove the boundary" then zoom out.
• locallost 4y ago
  Pivot to a new twist on escape rooms. Instead of escaping from the warehouse, you have to defend it for one night. A lot of fun, except it's all real.
  • codemonkey-zeta 4y ago
    You just described the life of a a security guard.
• DawnQFunk 4y ago
  • drstewart 4y ago
    Obvious troll bait here, but can you post this list of the "top 100 cities in America"?
    • deepdriver 4y ago
      Dunno about "best" cities, but the most dangerous in terms of violent crime have mainly Democratic or nonpartisan mayors by a wide margin: https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/the-most-dangerous-cities-in-america/ https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/the-most-dangerous-cities-i... Edit: I know it breaks etiquette to complain about downvotes, but this comment is not just material fact, it's my everyday lived reality. It's not safe to walk outside at night anymore on my block thanks to underfunded police and permissive progressive judges. I hear gunshots that I never heard before. The open drug use problem's getting worse, and schools have gotten way more dangerous for kids. Someone got stabbed on my street this weekend. The political cause and effect are clear. If that annoys you, bite me.
      • ZeroGravitas 4y ago
        All cities are predominantly democrat mayors, so if it's the same fraction of "dangerous" cities, then it suggests the mayor isnt the source of the issue.
  • nxm 4y ago
    Sarcasm?
  • deepdriver 4y ago
    Your comment is flamebait, but I'll respond anyway. We can get a sense of where people like to live based on where they are leaving and where they are going. Of the five fastest-growing cities in America by absolute numbers, one is governed by a Democrat, one by an Independent, and three by Republicans: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/fastest-growing-cities-population-estimates.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/fastest-... Of the top 10 fastest-growing states, 7 out of 10 are governed by Republicans: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/these-are-the-10-fastest-growing-states-in-america https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/slideshows/these-are...
• spoonjim 4y ago
  • octoberfranklin 4y ago
    Have you been screened for assholery? I feel like making a mental health diagnosis on the basis of real estate investments is a mistake that one could make in those circumstances.
    • throwaway9980 4y ago
      Watch a couple of the YouTube videos on the other side of some of the links posted above. The guy seems very intelligent and genuinely nice. It’s also clear that he needs to seek mental healthcare.
• Kiro 4y ago
  Someone should make a documentary about you. Just your Deuterium Deuterium Periodically Returning Orbit Fusion reactor is interesting enough (http://www.ddprofusion.com/ http://www.ddprofusion.com/), but doing it in Pine Bluff? I'm sold.
  • pontifier 4y ago
    If anyone is interested in this, I'm open too the idea. I tried to have a videographer at the auction where I bought all the property, but they didn't show up. My biggest fear/hope about that is that my life could suddenly become boring once the cameras started rolling. I'm not sure which one would be worse.
• scythe 4y ago
  Maybe the cheapest place you can find is that way for a reason? "You get what you pay for" isn't an ironclad law, but it's still a decent hint.
  • lupire 4y ago
    "You don't get what you don't pay for" is an even stronger hint.
• mothsonasloth 4y ago
  Wow what a story so far, I would document more and try and get some media attention to help you. Or go a level above local government and get some bigger guns?
• pepy 4y ago
  Congrats on doubling down on a bad decision. I'd suggest to list em all for sale, happily accept 60% of listed price and pray that the buyer doesnt bump into this discussion.
• FuriouslyAdrift 4y ago
  You should find out who is doing security for that brand new huge casino there and hire them...
• danso 4y ago
  This January 2021 article provided some useful context: https://captimes.com/news/local/neighborhoods/john-fenley-shipped-murfie-customers-800-000-cds-to-arkansas-where-are-they-now/article_ef835ab8-b43c-5ec7-b390-c0bdca40e8e5.html https://captimes.com/news/local/neighborhoods/john-fenley-sh... I mean, is it unreasonable for the city to expect new drawings/specs for a new use of a building that has been unmaintained for at least 15 years? The fact that the property was sold for such a cheap price basically implies that the new owner should expect to invest a substantial amount of money to get everything up to code. > Fenley said he selected the site because it was “the largest cheapest building in the country.” When he searched the commercial real estate website LoopNet for properties over 65,000 square feet and sorted by price, he thought the price tag of roughly $300,000 was a typo. The 17-acre industrial property was once home to steel manufacturer Varco Pruden but has stood vacant for at least 15 years and “fallen into disrepair,” according to the city’s Planning Commision. > Pine Bluff City Attorney Althea Scott told the Cap Times by email that the Planning Commission had approved Fenley’s plans for the site in June, contingent on compliance with building and fire codes. But, she wrote, “the applicable codes can only be determined once Mr. Fenley has submitted the requisite engineer/architectural drawing(s) which identifies the anticipated use and occupancy of the structure. To date, required drawings have not been received.” > Fenley told the Cap Times that such drawings would cost “tens of thousands of dollars,” and his communications with the city have led him to believe that he would need to bring the entire structure into compliance with current building codes before he could use any of it. Additional context about Murfie; seems like it was sold for a huge discount: nearly a million CDs sold for less than $10,000. No wonder u/pontifier saw an entrepreneurial opportunity: https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/5/21121594/crossies-murfie-madison-wisconsin-arkansas-1-million-abandoned-cds https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/5/21121594/crossies-murfie-m... > Finally, after about a month, Murfie’s investors agreed to sell. Fenley purchased Murfie for only $6,000 plus $2,000 for Murfie’s attorney’s fees, according to the agreement obtained by The Verge. In total, he says the endeavor has cost him about $25,000 so far. > Murfie’s 930,000 discs are still sitting in its Wisconsin warehouse. No one’s been inside since the landlord changed the locks some time ago, but Fenley says he’ll have access “shortly.”
  • azernik 4y ago
    Oh shit it's that guy! I remember reading this story at the time.
• whoknew1122 4y ago
  Sounds like you thought something was too good to be true, and then found out that it was too good to be true. And then you doubled-down, and now have a bunch of illiquid assets. Did you buy the warehouse sight unseen? Did you do any research on the local community and crime rates? Cheap land is cheap for a reason. It sounds like you found out the reason that land was so cheap.
  • iancmceachern 4y ago
    After searching for, and looking at many of these types of properties in the last few years this is the conclusion I've come to. There is no free lunch.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• iancmceachern 4y ago
  There have to be places in Utah with similar property costs/opportunities.
• recursv_thnkng 4y ago
  Sorry, but it seems painfully obvious what you were getting yourself into.
• poorbutdebtfree 4y ago
  Hey I also took a big chance about a decade ago buying a package of nine buildings that no one wanted. They were fully occupied, no leases, as-is where-is, no FHA, poorest zip code in the state, democrat city. I had boots on the ground on day 1 and it felt hopeless at times. From people setting up lawn chairs in front of the houses to deal drugs, to packs of homeless loitering on the front stoops, to getting fined by the city for things out of my control, etc. I managed to exit 2/3 of the properties by seller financing to the tenants I learned were cash rich, credit poor. Also the values eventually shot up because another investor started renovating the abandoned mill buildings into loft apartments.
• cosmodisk 4y ago
  I'm not in the US, but last weekend we had a family gathering and were discussing buying a place in a small village a bit further out from all the city action. On paper it checks out: prices are low, the scenery is beyond fantastic, quiet and you can still drive up to a city or some local town fairly easily. But then we started talking negatives: unemployment, poverty, higher crime rates than you'd like it to be,etc. Unless the place is populated by people of similar socioeconomic status, it's likely to be a tough going from day one.
• untangle 4y ago
  > Pine Bluff, Arkansas You know this now, but most crime databases have Pine Bluff as one of the most crime-riddles metros in the country. It rates a "1" on a scale of 100, with 100 being best (safest). Bummer. https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ar/pine-bluff/crime https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ar/pine-bluff/crime
• yourapostasy 4y ago
  I want in a linear accelerator way to see what happens if pontifer and Alan of HeavyDSparks [1] all got together and rebuilt Alan’s hacker fortress together. Maybe include Andrew Camarata [2] to increase the chances to Get Things Done. Personally the most interesting question I haven’t seen asked is how he searched for cheap properties. [1] https://youtu.be/EwievpEnXrE https://youtu.be/EwievpEnXrE [2] https://youtube.com/c/AndrewCamarata https://youtube.com/c/AndrewCamarata
  • pontifier 4y ago
    I'm totally open to collaborations. One of the properties I bought at the tax auction is 27 acres with a bunch of tall trees on it. I was thinking about inviting people who weave space webs to come down and build something amazing. Just before I closed on the warehouse, I reached out to the Megabots people to see if they wanted to move Megabots here, but didn't get a reply. The overhead cranes and large open interior spaces give opportunities not available anywhere else. I literally had living spaces for artist and entrepreneurs on my original proposal, and I was hoping that it would become a destination makerspace where big names could come and access the amazing workshop I was planning to set up. I was also planning to build a permanent robot combat arena here too, kind of like what they built in Norwalk. My full proposal is here: https://www.murfie.com/dist/serendipic.pdf https://www.murfie.com/dist/serendipic.pdf
  • pontifier 4y ago
    Oh yeah, forgot to mention... It was just a search loopnet.com for buildings over 65,000 sqft sorted by price. You can do a map search, then "remove boundary" and zoom out to see everything nation-wide that matches your search.