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Apple needs to be very careful that they don’t erode the things that most differentiate them from their competition.

by tailspin2019 4y ago

izacus 4y ago
Why? With their loyal fandom, they could put ads into every part of iPhone and there would still be millions running around telling everyone how those Ads are improving their lives and Apple helped them live their life. Ads are coming to iOS (heck, my iPad and Mac already have quite a bit peppered around) and Apple will earn even more money in the future from them.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kmbfjr 4y ago
  Not on my phone or computer, and I am all in on their ecosystem. I was prepared to bail over their CSAM scanning plans and I can easily move forward with it for ads. The Pixel with Calyx is still quite functional. I have an ethical line and it is my phone and computer are for my convenience, not a way to toss advertising toward me. Go ahead Apple, test me. Ya almost lost me a year ago. And I am not alone in this, I think most of Apple’s user base would be quite intolerant of such a plan.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    > And I am not alone in this But you are probably one of a handful of people who would switch ecosystems over an ad for a business in Apple Maps. Most people have significant amounts of lock-in impeding such a move.
    - majormajor 4y ago
      Before almost every startup dev in the world was on Macs, only a handful of people were using anything but Windows on the pro desktop... Macs were widely derided for well over a decade, even after OS X and the eventual Intel switch. And then suddenly there was critical mass and they kinda weren't anymore. Nobody in 1997 would've seen that coming, but mistakes that push a handful of people there and a handful of people there to new things have a way of compounding over time. (Look at how people talk about Google today vs 10 years ago, too, for instance.)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    A privacy respecting OS on google hardware is just controlled opposition. Please don't buy a new pixel if there is any other option (and there are a few for most use cases).
- MBCook 4y ago
  Bull. They’re already annoying even the faithful with ads for Apple One, Apple TV+, and Apple Arcade. It’s been mentioned as garish and obnoxious on multiple relatively pro Apple podcasts. I don’t the entire fan base would just sit there and take it. I think they’d see a strong reaction.
  - cercatrova 4y ago
    People always think users are more activist than they actually are. In reality, as long as something works, most users will tolerate a large amount of bullshit.
  - lttlrck 4y ago
    Just like when they put ads on ad-free paid for cable? I don't think todays generation are more activist than those that came before. They fall far short in fact.
JKCalhoun 4y ago
Agree. But I believe Apple thinks they also need to move harder into "services" and, I suppose, now ads. I think Apple recognizes that the high-margin hardware business is not not sustainable. Especially as everyone who would want an iPhone already owns one. Apple needs to grow somewhere.
- bergenty 4y ago
  Everyone that owns an iPhone cycles them out every 2-3 years. It’s a perpetual cash cow.
  - colejohnson66 4y ago
    That’s not true. A lot of people wait until their phone no longer works to upgrade. And also, something being a cash cow at the moment does not mean that thing will continue to be one. Since the iPhone 6ish, iPhones have become “good enough”; there’s not much to differentiate each model from the previous as there was with, say, the iPhones 3GS and 4. The iPhone 13 just doesn’t have much going for it compared to the 12.
    - bergenty 4y ago
      Apple is still selling a million iPhones a day.
  - tomjen3 4y ago
    That was the case, now its more like 4-5.
  - TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
    I stopped cycling when they removed headphone jack. Back to the Android.
    - dont__panic 4y ago
      Likewise. I wonder if we'll ever see them restore the headphone jack on the SE models simply because there's a good 10-20% chunk of the market who won't buy a phone without one. A Mini-chassis-based SE with a headphone jack and a touchID home button would be a day 0 buy for me -- I wouldn't even wait for reviews. Unfortunately I think Apple's treating the headphone jack (on iOS devices) like USB-A, not like the SD card slot or the HDMI port (on the Mac) -- the backlash hasn't been strong enough for them to backtrack. Of course, that leaves me trapped in the failed evolutionary path of my touchID, small-sized, headphone-jacked 2016 iPhone SE that's losing iOS support this fall. The Zenfone 9 has me intrigued as a modern SoC with solid cellular band coverage and most of the features I want. But it's still bigger than I'd like.
random314 4y ago
You are very mistaken if you think Apples recent "privacy" push wasn't about taking over advertising revenue from Facebook, Google, snap and tiktok
- rising-sky 4y ago
  They could have done that without a so called "privacy push", they "own" the device and if they chose to, could provide advertisers a level of targeting that the mentioned entities cannot match without resorting to privacy as a red herring
  - random314 4y ago
    No, they can't provide better targeting than Google/fb. Taking out competitors makes it a lot easier to seek rent.
  - fyzix 4y ago
    They are very tactical. They want to be praised as the good guys while killing their competition.
  - NBJack 4y ago
    They can't compete with the big ad players and they know it. They tried. It's another classic example of "if you can't beat them, use your other enormous industry leverage to change the game to your advantage." Truth is, I don't think Apple realizes yet how critical that tracking data is to keep advertisers happy and informed. I predict that they will enter the ad market in full 3 years from now, and the existing players will push for an antitrust lawsuit in 5. If they survive that is.
    - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
      > Truth is, I don't think Apple realizes yet how critical that tracking data is to keep advertisers happy and informed I think they do. Note that Apple can still track conversions on apps (gaming apps is where the money is), which basically no-one else can without getting ATT agreement. Note additionally how Apple (and Google's) business are conveniently excluded from ATT concerns (because they track installs differently). Like the gaming advertisers on iOS have nowhere else to go now that Apple have hobbled the competition, which they tried to do with App Store ads about 5 years ago.
tinus_hn 4y ago
The differentiation is not in having no ads but in not tracking the user for targeted advertisements. Which is why of course next up people are going to complain about the bad quality of the ads.
Krasnol 4y ago
I doubt they'll lower their prices anytime soon.

Apple needs to be very careful that they don’t erode the things that most differentiate them from their competition.

Why? With their loyal fandom, they could put ads into every part of iPhone and there would still be millions running around telling everyone how those Ads are improving their lives and Apple helped them live their life. Ads are coming to iOS (heck, my iPad and Mac already have quite a bit peppered around) and Apple will earn even more money in the future from them.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kmbfjr 4y ago
Not on my phone or computer, and I am all in on their ecosystem. I was prepared to bail over their CSAM scanning plans and I can easily move forward with it for ads. The Pixel with Calyx is still quite functional. I have an ethical line and it is my phone and computer are for my convenience, not a way to toss advertising toward me. Go ahead Apple, test me. Ya almost lost me a year ago. And I am not alone in this, I think most of Apple’s user base would be quite intolerant of such a plan.
- threeseed 4y ago
  > And I am not alone in this But you are probably one of a handful of people who would switch ecosystems over an ad for a business in Apple Maps. Most people have significant amounts of lock-in impeding such a move.
  - majormajor 4y ago
    Before almost every startup dev in the world was on Macs, only a handful of people were using anything but Windows on the pro desktop... Macs were widely derided for well over a decade, even after OS X and the eventual Intel switch. And then suddenly there was critical mass and they kinda weren't anymore. Nobody in 1997 would've seen that coming, but mistakes that push a handful of people there and a handful of people there to new things have a way of compounding over time. (Look at how people talk about Google today vs 10 years ago, too, for instance.)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  A privacy respecting OS on google hardware is just controlled opposition. Please don't buy a new pixel if there is any other option (and there are a few for most use cases).
MBCook 4y ago
Bull. They’re already annoying even the faithful with ads for Apple One, Apple TV+, and Apple Arcade. It’s been mentioned as garish and obnoxious on multiple relatively pro Apple podcasts. I don’t the entire fan base would just sit there and take it. I think they’d see a strong reaction.
- cercatrova 4y ago
  People always think users are more activist than they actually are. In reality, as long as something works, most users will tolerate a large amount of bullshit.
- lttlrck 4y ago
  Just like when they put ads on ad-free paid for cable? I don't think todays generation are more activist than those that came before. They fall far short in fact.

JKCalhoun 4y ago

Agree. But I believe Apple thinks they also need to move harder into "services" and, I suppose, now ads. I think Apple recognizes that the high-margin hardware business is not not sustainable. Especially as everyone who would want an iPhone already owns one. Apple needs to grow somewhere.

bergenty 4y ago
Everyone that owns an iPhone cycles them out every 2-3 years. It’s a perpetual cash cow.
- colejohnson66 4y ago
  That’s not true. A lot of people wait until their phone no longer works to upgrade. And also, something being a cash cow at the moment does not mean that thing will continue to be one. Since the iPhone 6ish, iPhones have become “good enough”; there’s not much to differentiate each model from the previous as there was with, say, the iPhones 3GS and 4. The iPhone 13 just doesn’t have much going for it compared to the 12.
  - bergenty 4y ago
    Apple is still selling a million iPhones a day.
- tomjen3 4y ago
  That was the case, now its more like 4-5.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  I stopped cycling when they removed headphone jack. Back to the Android.
  - dont__panic 4y ago
    Likewise. I wonder if we'll ever see them restore the headphone jack on the SE models simply because there's a good 10-20% chunk of the market who won't buy a phone without one. A Mini-chassis-based SE with a headphone jack and a touchID home button would be a day 0 buy for me -- I wouldn't even wait for reviews. Unfortunately I think Apple's treating the headphone jack (on iOS devices) like USB-A, not like the SD card slot or the HDMI port (on the Mac) -- the backlash hasn't been strong enough for them to backtrack. Of course, that leaves me trapped in the failed evolutionary path of my touchID, small-sized, headphone-jacked 2016 iPhone SE that's losing iOS support this fall. The Zenfone 9 has me intrigued as a modern SoC with solid cellular band coverage and most of the features I want. But it's still bigger than I'd like.

random314 4y ago

You are very mistaken if you think Apples recent "privacy" push wasn't about taking over advertising revenue from Facebook, Google, snap and tiktok

rising-sky 4y ago
They could have done that without a so called "privacy push", they "own" the device and if they chose to, could provide advertisers a level of targeting that the mentioned entities cannot match without resorting to privacy as a red herring
- random314 4y ago
  No, they can't provide better targeting than Google/fb. Taking out competitors makes it a lot easier to seek rent.
- fyzix 4y ago
  They are very tactical. They want to be praised as the good guys while killing their competition.
- NBJack 4y ago
  They can't compete with the big ad players and they know it. They tried. It's another classic example of "if you can't beat them, use your other enormous industry leverage to change the game to your advantage." Truth is, I don't think Apple realizes yet how critical that tracking data is to keep advertisers happy and informed. I predict that they will enter the ad market in full 3 years from now, and the existing players will push for an antitrust lawsuit in 5. If they survive that is.
  - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
    > Truth is, I don't think Apple realizes yet how critical that tracking data is to keep advertisers happy and informed I think they do. Note that Apple can still track conversions on apps (gaming apps is where the money is), which basically no-one else can without getting ATT agreement. Note additionally how Apple (and Google's) business are conveniently excluded from ATT concerns (because they track installs differently). Like the gaming advertisers on iOS have nowhere else to go now that Apple have hobbled the competition, which they tried to do with App Store ads about 5 years ago.

tinus_hn 4y ago

The differentiation is not in having no ads but in not tracking the user for targeted advertisements. Which is why of course next up people are going to complain about the bad quality of the ads.

Krasnol 4y ago

I doubt they'll lower their prices anytime soon.