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I've been browsing Hacker News for several years now and this is the post that pushed me into making an account, just to comment here. Klipper is a better choi

I've been browsing Hacker News for several years now and this is the post that pushed me into making an account, just to comment here. Klipper is a better choice in almost every way. It actually uses the CPU of your pi to improve the print, as opposed to Octoprint which basically just spits the gcode straight over to the microcontroller. Upgrading to Klipper has been the second best upgrade I've made to my Ender3, with the best being a main board with silent stepping.

ucirello 4y ago
OctoKlipper?
- fake-name 4y ago
  Mainsail is SO MUCH nicer.
  - bpye 4y ago
    I should probably switch over… I’ve been using OctoPrint + Klipper for years and never got around to switching to Mainsail.
    - Filligree 4y ago
      I like Fluidd a little better, but honestly they’re about the same.
joshu 4y ago
i keep thinking about building a new machine to try out klipper, fancy extruders, and so on. i am reluctant to mess with my workhouse prusa.
- bb88 4y ago
  Yeah... I'm not going to do that either. I think what I'll do instead is get a good coreXY printer which runs klipper natively (like the Voron). But I think I really want is a tool changing printer a la the prusa xl. Prusa tends to do a lot of up front engineering that you just don't see. Plus the support I've got from them has been just fantastic.
  - joshu 4y ago
    i have preordered the xl. i just want to build a separate machine for messing with other stuff
    - bb88 4y ago
      Congrats. I'm going to wait for the reviews before I order one, though I expect they'll be spectacular. I feel like with the likes of the Bambu(sp?) X1 and their fancy shmancy lidar sensor, it's only a matter of time before Prusa is going to need to push that into their printers. E.g. the lidar could show width, heighth, and any stringing from the filaments -- ideally making it easier to determine the specs for a new filament.
  - Filligree 4y ago
    The XL will have official Klipper support (from Prusa) anyway.
- ThatPlayer 4y ago
  Prusa's firmware has a lot of features that Klipper doesn't support, such as the crash detection and the auto-calibration. It's one of my printer of mine that I have no plans to switch to Klipper on.
  - joshu 4y ago
    yeah, the prusa is too reliable to consider messing with. maybe i could get another used prusa somewhere…
w-ll 4y ago
Klipper looks interesting. Im still running an old old Octoprint build on a pi because it works and dont wannna deal with it. How does it improve the print vs just sending gcode? My main pc is whats slicing and dicing and creating the gcode. How is the Klipper improving that?
- bb88 4y ago
  All 3d printers make translations based upon things like bed level, etc. Supposedly klipper is able to adjust for things like ringing or ghosting as well, where the frame wobbles a bit after the head moves. I'm sure there's others, but that strikes me as the most important one at the moment.
  - cityofdelusion 4y ago
    Indeed, Klipper can work with an accelerometer and cancel out harmonic resonance in the printer. It is the killer feature of Klipper IMO — along with a configuration that is dirt simple (no compiling C and flashing firmware). Of note of course is that some of this is theoretically possible via OctoPrint as well.
    - ThatPlayer 4y ago
      RRF supports both of those features, but hasn't been ported to many devices. With how hard Raspberry Pis are to get now, being able to run everything off the microcontroller is nice. There was a time we used RRF's DWC as an interface for Klipper too: https://github.com/Stephan3/dwc2-for-klipper-socket https://github.com/Stephan3/dwc2-for-klipper-socket
- tcrenshaw 4y ago
  Quote from a klipper's benefits page I found [1] "Klipper uses the extra computing power and built-in algorithms to better calculate step movement times for motor actions, achieving movement precision of 25 microseconds or lower. Scheduling movements with an external computer also allows your machine to can carry out more actions in a given period." It ends up meaning quicker, better quality prints. Input shaping and resonance compensation make a world of difference when printing quickly. I also have a bltouch on my ender3; I found the bed leveling procedure with the bltouch to be way easier and more precise with Klipper. 1. https://www.3dprintingbuff.com/what-are-the-benefits-of-klipper/ https://www.3dprintingbuff.com/what-are-the-benefits-of-klip...
CodeWriter23 4y ago
I’m about 8 months in to 3D printing and I’ve done direct drive, bltouch and dual z upgrades on my Ender 3. Through all that research I’ve not stumbled across Klipper. I’m fascinated and excited about it. I think I like nodding my printer almost as much as prototyping parts for other machines I’m making. Thanks for your choice to signup and share this.
cityofdelusion 4y ago
Very strong agree. Octoprint is incredibly slow, bloated, and just a poor performer overall. Klipper + Mainsail is such an insane upgrade that I feel like a fool for sticking to Octoprint for so long. Using Octoprint reminds me of maintaining a bloated Wordpress + jQuery blob website, and then someone shows you a snappy React version running on a cached edge provider. Night and day difference. Klipper and Klipper based UIs are making huge strides. They are just so responsive and capable.
- starik36 4y ago
  I am reading their website and I am a bit confused. It says, it's firmware. If I use Mainsail + Klipper, do I need to flash my 3D Printer's firmware to make it work?
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    Yes. It has a minimal firmware that runs on the printer, and then all the logic and complex stuff runs on the computer. If the two are unplugged, the print stops immediately.
  - grepLeigh 4y ago
    1) You flash Klipper firmware to your 3D printer's microcontroller ("MCU" in Klipper docs). https://www.klipper3d.org/Installation.html#building-and-flashing-the-micro-controller https://www.klipper3d.org/Installation.html#building-and-fla... 2) You run Klipper's server software ("Klippy host") on a Raspberry Pi (or other single-board computer). Klipper provides a JSON RPC API for communicating with your printer, without having to worry about serial baud rates or other low-level details. https://github.com/Klipper3d/klipper/blob/master/docs/API_Server.md https://github.com/Klipper3d/klipper/blob/master/docs/API_Se... 3) You must connect Klipper server (Pi) to the microcontroller running Klipper firmware. I couldn't find a list of supported boards, but you can see all the usual suspects here (stm32, rp2040, etc). https://github.com/Klipper3d/klipper/tree/master/src https://github.com/Klipper3d/klipper/tree/master/src Klipper also provides the ability to use your Raspberry Pi as a 2nd controller if your 3D printer's microcontroller doesn't have enough pin-outs to support your ha https://www.klipper3d.org/RPi_microcontroller.html?h=micro https://www.klipper3d.org/RPi_microcontroller.html?h=micro 4) Mainsail is a front-end webapp that talks to Moonraker, which is a back-end app that manages Files/Gcode/Print Job via HTTP, MQTT, and JSON RPC. Moonraker communicates with "Klippy Host" via JSON RPC. https://github.com/mainsail-crew/mainsail https://github.com/mainsail-crew/mainsail https://moonraker.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ https://moonraker.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ Hope this helps! It's a wild world out there.
iseanstevens 4y ago
Please note that Octoprint and Klipper are at different levels of functionality. It's not a choice between the two in any way. Octoprint is for job management/monitoring and is SUPER extensible. It gives you a web interface/camera view/manual control of the printer. You can do things like install a slicer plugin so you can drop an .stl file into the browser then it will slice and print. Klipper is more like printer firmware. It's lower level than Octoprint. The two can be used together.
- cityofdelusion 4y ago
  In practice, it is a choice between the two. Klipper based communities tend to stick to Klipper stuff and same with OctoPrint based communities. But yes, dedicated persons can use any combination of firmware + software that they want. It is one of the best parts of the open source 3D printing world!
  - growt 4y ago
    Interestingly Klipper recommends installing octopi on their website: https://www.klipper3d.org/Installation.html https://www.klipper3d.org/Installation.html I think some of the comments here are too hard on octoprint, it is still kind of a universal pocket knife for 3d printing.
  - jjeaff 4y ago
    The klipper3d.org website says you need to install octoprint first and doesn't mention any alternatives.
  - sgtnoodle 4y ago
    That's funny. I've been using octoprint with klipper for several years. I've tried to research alternative frontends to octoprint, and there doesn't seem to be a clear winner for klipper. What's the official klipper frontend these days?
    - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 4y ago
      https://github.com/fluidd-core/fluidd https://github.com/fluidd-core/fluidd
sitkack 4y ago
https://www.klipper3d.org/ https://www.klipper3d.org/
grepLeigh 4y ago
Klipper is a 3D printer firmware. You would compare it to Marlin, which is a common stock firmware on 3D printer microcontrollers. OctoPrint is a web application, built on a Flask/Tornado stack. You can use Klipper firmware with OctoPrint: https://www.klipper3d.org/Installation.html#configuring-octoprint-to-use-klipper https://www.klipper3d.org/Installation.html#configuring-octo... I agree that Klipper's features are excellent! The resonance compensation is most interesting to me. I'm someone who is deeply invested in algorithmically grading/estimating print quality. If you're reading this and want to learn more about how Klipper improves prints, check out Klipper's kinematics doc: https://www.klipper3d.org/Kinematics.html https://www.klipper3d.org/Kinematics.html
fabian2k 4y ago
OctoPrint is meant to be used with many different 3D printers and their default firmware. But that also means it is restricted to using a common interface most printers support, and there isn't anything else than sending text-based G-Code directly. And even that has varying levels of brokenness on different printers, the manufacturers don't seem to care that much about interoperability. Switching out the entire Firmware, which is what you need to do to use Klipper is an entirely different thing than adding a nice web UI in front of your existing 3D printer. The author of OctoPrint also said that she tried at some point to convince people to define a binary G-Code format, but apparently that went really badly. A more efficient format for transferring the data to the 3D printers would help to avoid the problems OctoPrint has to fight to get reasonable performance when printing. But it does not seem feasible to get the manufacturers and firmware writers to agree on anything there.
- grepLeigh 4y ago
  Earlier this year, the "Additive Manufacturing Forward" program was announced. One of the goals of this program is to set industry standards and develop training/certifications. I'm hoping the NIST and other standards-governing bodies (ISO, ASTM, ASME) will be in a position to accept RFCs for printer communication protocols, Gcode encoding, and other standards within coming years. AM Forward puts a 1-2 year timeline on proposed milestones. (edited: typo) [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/05/06/fact-sheet-biden-administration-celebrates-launch-of-am-forward-and-calls-on-congress-to-pass-bipartisan-innovation-act/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...
jeffybefffy519 4y ago
I upgraded to klipper a long time ago over marlin, and whilst its great and improves print quality (especially on slow 8 bit boards). It is not _better_ than marlin. Its very user hostile and generally the support between upgrades is very poor. Any error and Klipper will abort your print, when in most cases it absolutely does not need to. Basically its great for fast printing but you are nuts if you think the everyday 3d printer should run it in its current state.
- solarkraft 4y ago
  > It's very user hostile It sucks that you can't use it on its own. But wow, the configuration and customization experience is great.
  - jeffybefffy519 4y ago
    Totally, but the flip side of that configurability is i still cant get my filament runout sensor to work without klipper throwing an unrecoverable error and aborting my print.
rcarmo 4y ago
I upgraded my Prusa clone to Klipper a little while ago and am loving it: https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/07/09/1230 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/07/09/1230
nemof 4y ago
i've been running octoprint for a long time, but i'd love to try klipper just to experiment because i hear such glowing things about it. the main thing that stops me adopting it is the absolute inability to get a raspberry pi right now to run mainsail on. i've got alerts set up for stock on plenty of sites, but they're basically like gold dust.
sschueller 4y ago
The klipper community seems extremely hostile towards marlin and octoprint (which isn't really the same or replaces it) for what ever reason. Klipper is good but it isn't the "end all be all". I personally use klipper together with ocotprint using octoklipper. I wish there was more working together than this unnecessary hostility sometimes.
- hellweaver666 4y ago
  I remember Thomas Salanderer (a very prominent 3d printing YouTuber) saying he refuses to use Klipper just because of how toxic their community is. God knows what lead to that kind of behaviour around a 3d printer firmware!). On the other hand I’ve experienced nothing but friendliness from Gina and the Octoprint community!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

ucirello 4y ago

OctoKlipper?

fake-name 4y ago
Mainsail is SO MUCH nicer.
- bpye 4y ago
  I should probably switch over… I’ve been using OctoPrint + Klipper for years and never got around to switching to Mainsail.
  - Filligree 4y ago
    I like Fluidd a little better, but honestly they’re about the same.

joshu 4y ago

i keep thinking about building a new machine to try out klipper, fancy extruders, and so on. i am reluctant to mess with my workhouse prusa.

bb88 4y ago
Yeah... I'm not going to do that either. I think what I'll do instead is get a good coreXY printer which runs klipper natively (like the Voron). But I think I really want is a tool changing printer a la the prusa xl. Prusa tends to do a lot of up front engineering that you just don't see. Plus the support I've got from them has been just fantastic.
- joshu 4y ago
  i have preordered the xl. i just want to build a separate machine for messing with other stuff
  - bb88 4y ago
    Congrats. I'm going to wait for the reviews before I order one, though I expect they'll be spectacular. I feel like with the likes of the Bambu(sp?) X1 and their fancy shmancy lidar sensor, it's only a matter of time before Prusa is going to need to push that into their printers. E.g. the lidar could show width, heighth, and any stringing from the filaments -- ideally making it easier to determine the specs for a new filament.
- Filligree 4y ago
  The XL will have official Klipper support (from Prusa) anyway.
ThatPlayer 4y ago
Prusa's firmware has a lot of features that Klipper doesn't support, such as the crash detection and the auto-calibration. It's one of my printer of mine that I have no plans to switch to Klipper on.
- joshu 4y ago
  yeah, the prusa is too reliable to consider messing with. maybe i could get another used prusa somewhere…

w-ll 4y ago

Klipper looks interesting. Im still running an old old Octoprint build on a pi because it works and dont wannna deal with it. How does it improve the print vs just sending gcode? My main pc is whats slicing and dicing and creating the gcode. How is the Klipper improving that?

bb88 4y ago
All 3d printers make translations based upon things like bed level, etc. Supposedly klipper is able to adjust for things like ringing or ghosting as well, where the frame wobbles a bit after the head moves. I'm sure there's others, but that strikes me as the most important one at the moment.
- cityofdelusion 4y ago
  Indeed, Klipper can work with an accelerometer and cancel out harmonic resonance in the printer. It is the killer feature of Klipper IMO — along with a configuration that is dirt simple (no compiling C and flashing firmware). Of note of course is that some of this is theoretically possible via OctoPrint as well.
  - ThatPlayer 4y ago
    RRF supports both of those features, but hasn't been ported to many devices. With how hard Raspberry Pis are to get now, being able to run everything off the microcontroller is nice. There was a time we used RRF's DWC as an interface for Klipper too: https://github.com/Stephan3/dwc2-for-klipper-socket https://github.com/Stephan3/dwc2-for-klipper-socket
tcrenshaw 4y ago
Quote from a klipper's benefits page I found [1] "Klipper uses the extra computing power and built-in algorithms to better calculate step movement times for motor actions, achieving movement precision of 25 microseconds or lower. Scheduling movements with an external computer also allows your machine to can carry out more actions in a given period." It ends up meaning quicker, better quality prints. Input shaping and resonance compensation make a world of difference when printing quickly. I also have a bltouch on my ender3; I found the bed leveling procedure with the bltouch to be way easier and more precise with Klipper. 1. https://www.3dprintingbuff.com/what-are-the-benefits-of-klipper/ https://www.3dprintingbuff.com/what-are-the-benefits-of-klip...

CodeWriter23 4y ago

I’m about 8 months in to 3D printing and I’ve done direct drive, bltouch and dual z upgrades on my Ender 3. Through all that research I’ve not stumbled across Klipper. I’m fascinated and excited about it. I think I like nodding my printer almost as much as prototyping parts for other machines I’m making. Thanks for your choice to signup and share this.

cityofdelusion 4y ago

Very strong agree. Octoprint is incredibly slow, bloated, and just a poor performer overall. Klipper + Mainsail is such an insane upgrade that I feel like a fool for sticking to Octoprint for so long. Using Octoprint reminds me of maintaining a bloated Wordpress + jQuery blob website, and then someone shows you a snappy React version running on a cached edge provider. Night and day difference. Klipper and Klipper based UIs are making huge strides. They are just so responsive and capable.

starik36 4y ago
I am reading their website and I am a bit confused. It says, it's firmware. If I use Mainsail + Klipper, do I need to flash my 3D Printer's firmware to make it work?
- londons_explore 4y ago
  Yes. It has a minimal firmware that runs on the printer, and then all the logic and complex stuff runs on the computer. If the two are unplugged, the print stops immediately.
- grepLeigh 4y ago
  1) You flash Klipper firmware to your 3D printer's microcontroller ("MCU" in Klipper docs). https://www.klipper3d.org/Installation.html#building-and-flashing-the-micro-controller https://www.klipper3d.org/Installation.html#building-and-fla... 2) You run Klipper's server software ("Klippy host") on a Raspberry Pi (or other single-board computer). Klipper provides a JSON RPC API for communicating with your printer, without having to worry about serial baud rates or other low-level details. https://github.com/Klipper3d/klipper/blob/master/docs/API_Server.md https://github.com/Klipper3d/klipper/blob/master/docs/API_Se... 3) You must connect Klipper server (Pi) to the microcontroller running Klipper firmware. I couldn't find a list of supported boards, but you can see all the usual suspects here (stm32, rp2040, etc). https://github.com/Klipper3d/klipper/tree/master/src https://github.com/Klipper3d/klipper/tree/master/src Klipper also provides the ability to use your Raspberry Pi as a 2nd controller if your 3D printer's microcontroller doesn't have enough pin-outs to support your ha https://www.klipper3d.org/RPi_microcontroller.html?h=micro https://www.klipper3d.org/RPi_microcontroller.html?h=micro 4) Mainsail is a front-end webapp that talks to Moonraker, which is a back-end app that manages Files/Gcode/Print Job via HTTP, MQTT, and JSON RPC. Moonraker communicates with "Klippy Host" via JSON RPC. https://github.com/mainsail-crew/mainsail https://github.com/mainsail-crew/mainsail https://moonraker.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ https://moonraker.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ Hope this helps! It's a wild world out there.

iseanstevens 4y ago

Please note that Octoprint and Klipper are at different levels of functionality. It's not a choice between the two in any way. Octoprint is for job management/monitoring and is SUPER extensible. It gives you a web interface/camera view/manual control of the printer. You can do things like install a slicer plugin so you can drop an .stl file into the browser then it will slice and print. Klipper is more like printer firmware. It's lower level than Octoprint. The two can be used together.

cityofdelusion 4y ago
In practice, it is a choice between the two. Klipper based communities tend to stick to Klipper stuff and same with OctoPrint based communities. But yes, dedicated persons can use any combination of firmware + software that they want. It is one of the best parts of the open source 3D printing world!
- growt 4y ago
  Interestingly Klipper recommends installing octopi on their website: https://www.klipper3d.org/Installation.html https://www.klipper3d.org/Installation.html I think some of the comments here are too hard on octoprint, it is still kind of a universal pocket knife for 3d printing.
- jjeaff 4y ago
  The klipper3d.org website says you need to install octoprint first and doesn't mention any alternatives.
- sgtnoodle 4y ago
  That's funny. I've been using octoprint with klipper for several years. I've tried to research alternative frontends to octoprint, and there doesn't seem to be a clear winner for klipper. What's the official klipper frontend these days?
  - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 4y ago
    https://github.com/fluidd-core/fluidd https://github.com/fluidd-core/fluidd

sitkack 4y ago

https://www.klipper3d.org/ https://www.klipper3d.org/

grepLeigh 4y ago

Klipper is a 3D printer firmware. You would compare it to Marlin, which is a common stock firmware on 3D printer microcontrollers. OctoPrint is a web application, built on a Flask/Tornado stack. You can use Klipper firmware with OctoPrint: https://www.klipper3d.org/Installation.html#configuring-octoprint-to-use-klipper https://www.klipper3d.org/Installation.html#configuring-octo... I agree that Klipper's features are excellent! The resonance compensation is most interesting to me. I'm someone who is deeply invested in algorithmically grading/estimating print quality. If you're reading this and want to learn more about how Klipper improves prints, check out Klipper's kinematics doc: https://www.klipper3d.org/Kinematics.html https://www.klipper3d.org/Kinematics.html

fabian2k 4y ago

OctoPrint is meant to be used with many different 3D printers and their default firmware. But that also means it is restricted to using a common interface most printers support, and there isn't anything else than sending text-based G-Code directly. And even that has varying levels of brokenness on different printers, the manufacturers don't seem to care that much about interoperability. Switching out the entire Firmware, which is what you need to do to use Klipper is an entirely different thing than adding a nice web UI in front of your existing 3D printer. The author of OctoPrint also said that she tried at some point to convince people to define a binary G-Code format, but apparently that went really badly. A more efficient format for transferring the data to the 3D printers would help to avoid the problems OctoPrint has to fight to get reasonable performance when printing. But it does not seem feasible to get the manufacturers and firmware writers to agree on anything there.

grepLeigh 4y ago
Earlier this year, the "Additive Manufacturing Forward" program was announced. One of the goals of this program is to set industry standards and develop training/certifications. I'm hoping the NIST and other standards-governing bodies (ISO, ASTM, ASME) will be in a position to accept RFCs for printer communication protocols, Gcode encoding, and other standards within coming years. AM Forward puts a 1-2 year timeline on proposed milestones. (edited: typo) [1] https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/05/06/fact-sheet-biden-administration-celebrates-launch-of-am-forward-and-calls-on-congress-to-pass-bipartisan-innovation-act/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...

jeffybefffy519 4y ago

I upgraded to klipper a long time ago over marlin, and whilst its great and improves print quality (especially on slow 8 bit boards). It is not _better_ than marlin. Its very user hostile and generally the support between upgrades is very poor. Any error and Klipper will abort your print, when in most cases it absolutely does not need to. Basically its great for fast printing but you are nuts if you think the everyday 3d printer should run it in its current state.

solarkraft 4y ago
> It's very user hostile It sucks that you can't use it on its own. But wow, the configuration and customization experience is great.
- jeffybefffy519 4y ago
  Totally, but the flip side of that configurability is i still cant get my filament runout sensor to work without klipper throwing an unrecoverable error and aborting my print.

rcarmo 4y ago

I upgraded my Prusa clone to Klipper a little while ago and am loving it: https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/07/09/1230 https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2022/07/09/1230

nemof 4y ago

i've been running octoprint for a long time, but i'd love to try klipper just to experiment because i hear such glowing things about it. the main thing that stops me adopting it is the absolute inability to get a raspberry pi right now to run mainsail on. i've got alerts set up for stock on plenty of sites, but they're basically like gold dust.

sschueller 4y ago

The klipper community seems extremely hostile towards marlin and octoprint (which isn't really the same or replaces it) for what ever reason. Klipper is good but it isn't the "end all be all". I personally use klipper together with ocotprint using octoklipper. I wish there was more working together than this unnecessary hostility sometimes.

hellweaver666 4y ago
I remember Thomas Salanderer (a very prominent 3d printing YouTuber) saying he refuses to use Klipper just because of how toxic their community is. God knows what lead to that kind of behaviour around a 3d printer firmware!). On the other hand I’ve experienced nothing but friendliness from Gina and the Octoprint community!

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]