7 ms·

This is a new low, truly more dystopian than I imagined software could ever get. Imagine this becoming a pattern. You have software you need for work, and the

This is a new low, truly more dystopian than I imagined software could ever get. Imagine this becoming a pattern. You have software you need for work, and the company behind it wants more money — so they pick the most popular feature and make it pay-per-use. It’s horrifying. I hope this fails fast and hard, as a lesson to other companies. I doubt it, though. I ran IT at a big architecture firm 25 years ago, and everyone hated Autodesk then. That hasn’t changed — most architects still hate Autodesk, even if they have to or choose to get value from Autodesk products. At that point AutoCAD still used dongles for licensing. If you upgraded a license you had to have both dongles plugged in. Some computers with multiple upgrades had multiple dongles hanging off the back, and I had to build custom dongle supports so they wouldn’t fall out and deauth a machine in the middle of someone’s work. So yeah, even with that history, this surprises and horrifies me.

coreyisthename 4y ago
My old man owns a successful firm and has hated autodesk for as long as I can remember. He told me the prices like 20 years ago and I was blown away. No idea what they are today, but I imagine they’re much higher and much more “nickel and dimey”
horsawlarway 4y ago
This is rapidly becoming the "norm". Why do you think basically every software product coming out these days is "SaaS"? It turns out that "SaaS" is basically equivalent to "we're rent seeking - we won't do more work, but we will rake in more revenue". My prediction is that we're going to force the learning curve of tech on the general population (also already happening) because just like those who couldn't read were heavily abused by those who could - those who can't host their own software are being abused by those who can.
- asah 4y ago
  Meh. 20% annual maintenance is classic for on-prem enterprise software.
- legutierr 4y ago
  > those who can't host their own software are being abused by those who can What is more abusive—choosing to sell your creation on your own terms, or forcing someone else to sell their creation to you on terms of your choosing? Thankfully, if someone creates something of value, they don’t have to sell it to you if they don’t want to.
  - thegagne 4y ago
    I think the issue is the old rug pull where the terms/price change dramatically after you are hooked, and after they have bought out or undercut the competition.
    - chii 4y ago
      i think the most important change to legislate that could fix this problem is a freedom to demand api/specs from a company for the purposes of reverse engineering an competing product. This would include the data format that a customer can expect to be able to export off the product they pay for. E.g., any data, file, or model, etc, should be exportable and in a format that is specified well enough for a competing company to offer a migration path away. this right will ensure that there wouldn't be any rugpulls.
      - yourapostasy 4y ago
        That won’t be good enough. These representation models get terrifyingly complex and even genuine good faith implementations between different parties will differ, much less efforts tainted by bad actors. One only need look at web browser engines vis a vis web standards, all out in the open, and the Herculean effort required to get to the current state of differences between browser rendering, to get a sense of the challenge. Such specifications also need to maintain test suites with real data and code and reference code to even start a conversation about effective inter-product data interchange.
  - mr-pink 4y ago
    are you kidding? what if microsoft/apple started charging you every time you save a file or add a monthly fee for undo/redo? should i pay a fee every mile i mouse my mouse? rent-seeking bs needs to stop.
userbinator 4y ago
This is what cracks are for. You paid them already, so I don't think you should feel guilty at all about cracking and using without the dongle. I am reminded of the classic "if you are a pirate this is what you get, if you are a paying customer this is what you get" meme.
- zydex 4y ago
  You'll probably still be losing more and more features as they're moved to the cloud and can't be cracked.
  - kradeelav 4y ago
    > "can't be cracked" If Adobe PS is anything to go by, that's not a worry. :)
  - userbinator 4y ago
    I was referring to the old Autodesk software which was dongled but offline-only. That won't ever lose features (but of course the marketing spin is that it won't gain any either, nevermind the fact that it was the software used to successfully create many designs...)
- daenz 4y ago
  Except now you probably installed malicious code on your system.
  - cyanydeez 4y ago
    More than often, not.
    - daenz 4y ago
      I dug around a little bit and couldn't find a source supporting either of our claims. I did find verified examples of crypto miners in cracked software[0]. I think the threat landscape for cracks has probably changed with the rise of crypto mining. 0. https://decoded.avast.io/danielbenes/crackonosh-a-new-malware-distributed-in-cracked-software/ https://decoded.avast.io/danielbenes/crackonosh-a-new-malwar...
pyinstallwoes 4y ago
Well, you know what the free software people say, proprietary software is malware. Perhaps Stallman is more right than wrong.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  Stallman's problem is that he has a savior complex, is an extremist only interested in complete software freedom not incremental progress, is exceptionally emotionally immature (namely, splitting: everything in computing is either free and good, or evil if not completely free, by his definition of free), and narcissistic in the extreme. Last but not least: he lacks the ability to recognize the advantages (if only for implementing his own goals) of perspective-taking, compromise, being physically presentable (ie dressed decently, hair groomed, body clean), the slightest bit amicable/sociable... ....and not doing things that are socially repugnant. Such as threatening suicide when women won't date him (numerous independent accounts of such behavior, mostly with women who were very young), picking his toe cheese and eating it on a stage (there is video proof of this), repeatedly expressing extreme views around sex trafficking and pedophilia (and then when called out on it, nothing but petulance), hosting semi-clothed cuddle sessions on bare mattresses in his office at a university campus office building, and so on. He's so blind that he can't even see that his continued presence at the FSF in a leadership role has cost the FSF the vast majority of its working relationships with other organizations, free software or corporate. The FSF board is right there next to him; they're so devoted to him that even when almost the entire open source community says "if you won't fire Stallman, we're done working with you", they won't get rid of him. Stallman and the FSF had been increasingly irrelevant in the thirty years proceeding the whole pedo/trafficking emails and sexual harassment blow-up. Given the reaction from both, they've since become even more irrelevant.
  - thrown_22 4y ago
    Stallmans problem is that he is always right. It just takes 20 years for everyone else to notice. The secondary problem is that everyone's paycheck here depends on him being wrong, so we get character assassination instead.
wombatpm 4y ago
They altered the deal. Pray that they do not alter it further
- adampk 4y ago
  10/10 the most amount of exformation possible https://www.worldwidewords.org/turnsofphrase/tp-exf1.htm https://www.worldwidewords.org/turnsofphrase/tp-exf1.htm
marcosdumay 4y ago
This is an industry that is happy to enforce Autodesk's lockin on their work, not allowing their peers to use any alternative. The worst the software gets, the better. Maybe that way somebody not entrenched may have enough leverage to gain some market.
- stcont 4y ago
  The absolute contempt people would show others for suggesting the use of Blender over Maya was astounding. I hear it’s much better now. When I was in the industry in 2013-2015 it was very amusing to hear someone in the same breath talk about how much they hated Maya but how silly and *unprofessional* Blender was.
therealdokks 4y ago
pabs3 4y ago
While self-hosted open source isn't immune to this, at least you could keep running an old version that still has the feature.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

coreyisthename 4y ago

My old man owns a successful firm and has hated autodesk for as long as I can remember. He told me the prices like 20 years ago and I was blown away. No idea what they are today, but I imagine they’re much higher and much more “nickel and dimey”

horsawlarway 4y ago

This is rapidly becoming the "norm". Why do you think basically every software product coming out these days is "SaaS"? It turns out that "SaaS" is basically equivalent to "we're rent seeking - we won't do more work, but we will rake in more revenue". My prediction is that we're going to force the learning curve of tech on the general population (also already happening) because just like those who couldn't read were heavily abused by those who could - those who can't host their own software are being abused by those who can.

asah 4y ago
Meh. 20% annual maintenance is classic for on-prem enterprise software.
legutierr 4y ago
> those who can't host their own software are being abused by those who can What is more abusive—choosing to sell your creation on your own terms, or forcing someone else to sell their creation to you on terms of your choosing? Thankfully, if someone creates something of value, they don’t have to sell it to you if they don’t want to.
- thegagne 4y ago
  I think the issue is the old rug pull where the terms/price change dramatically after you are hooked, and after they have bought out or undercut the competition.
  - chii 4y ago
    i think the most important change to legislate that could fix this problem is a freedom to demand api/specs from a company for the purposes of reverse engineering an competing product. This would include the data format that a customer can expect to be able to export off the product they pay for. E.g., any data, file, or model, etc, should be exportable and in a format that is specified well enough for a competing company to offer a migration path away. this right will ensure that there wouldn't be any rugpulls.
    - yourapostasy 4y ago
      That won’t be good enough. These representation models get terrifyingly complex and even genuine good faith implementations between different parties will differ, much less efforts tainted by bad actors. One only need look at web browser engines vis a vis web standards, all out in the open, and the Herculean effort required to get to the current state of differences between browser rendering, to get a sense of the challenge. Such specifications also need to maintain test suites with real data and code and reference code to even start a conversation about effective inter-product data interchange.
- mr-pink 4y ago
  are you kidding? what if microsoft/apple started charging you every time you save a file or add a monthly fee for undo/redo? should i pay a fee every mile i mouse my mouse? rent-seeking bs needs to stop.

userbinator 4y ago

This is what cracks are for. You paid them already, so I don't think you should feel guilty at all about cracking and using without the dongle. I am reminded of the classic "if you are a pirate this is what you get, if you are a paying customer this is what you get" meme.

zydex 4y ago
You'll probably still be losing more and more features as they're moved to the cloud and can't be cracked.
- kradeelav 4y ago
  > "can't be cracked" If Adobe PS is anything to go by, that's not a worry. :)
- userbinator 4y ago
  I was referring to the old Autodesk software which was dongled but offline-only. That won't ever lose features (but of course the marketing spin is that it won't gain any either, nevermind the fact that it was the software used to successfully create many designs...)
daenz 4y ago
Except now you probably installed malicious code on your system.
- cyanydeez 4y ago
  More than often, not.
  - daenz 4y ago
    I dug around a little bit and couldn't find a source supporting either of our claims. I did find verified examples of crypto miners in cracked software[0]. I think the threat landscape for cracks has probably changed with the rise of crypto mining. 0. https://decoded.avast.io/danielbenes/crackonosh-a-new-malware-distributed-in-cracked-software/ https://decoded.avast.io/danielbenes/crackonosh-a-new-malwar...

pyinstallwoes 4y ago

Well, you know what the free software people say, proprietary software is malware. Perhaps Stallman is more right than wrong.

KennyBlanken 4y ago
Stallman's problem is that he has a savior complex, is an extremist only interested in complete software freedom not incremental progress, is exceptionally emotionally immature (namely, splitting: everything in computing is either free and good, or evil if not completely free, by his definition of free), and narcissistic in the extreme. Last but not least: he lacks the ability to recognize the advantages (if only for implementing his own goals) of perspective-taking, compromise, being physically presentable (ie dressed decently, hair groomed, body clean), the slightest bit amicable/sociable... ....and not doing things that are socially repugnant. Such as threatening suicide when women won't date him (numerous independent accounts of such behavior, mostly with women who were very young), picking his toe cheese and eating it on a stage (there is video proof of this), repeatedly expressing extreme views around sex trafficking and pedophilia (and then when called out on it, nothing but petulance), hosting semi-clothed cuddle sessions on bare mattresses in his office at a university campus office building, and so on. He's so blind that he can't even see that his continued presence at the FSF in a leadership role has cost the FSF the vast majority of its working relationships with other organizations, free software or corporate. The FSF board is right there next to him; they're so devoted to him that even when almost the entire open source community says "if you won't fire Stallman, we're done working with you", they won't get rid of him. Stallman and the FSF had been increasingly irrelevant in the thirty years proceeding the whole pedo/trafficking emails and sexual harassment blow-up. Given the reaction from both, they've since become even more irrelevant.
- thrown_22 4y ago
  Stallmans problem is that he is always right. It just takes 20 years for everyone else to notice. The secondary problem is that everyone's paycheck here depends on him being wrong, so we get character assassination instead.

wombatpm 4y ago

They altered the deal. Pray that they do not alter it further

adampk 4y ago
10/10 the most amount of exformation possible https://www.worldwidewords.org/turnsofphrase/tp-exf1.htm https://www.worldwidewords.org/turnsofphrase/tp-exf1.htm

marcosdumay 4y ago

This is an industry that is happy to enforce Autodesk's lockin on their work, not allowing their peers to use any alternative. The worst the software gets, the better. Maybe that way somebody not entrenched may have enough leverage to gain some market.

stcont 4y ago
The absolute contempt people would show others for suggesting the use of Blender over Maya was astounding. I hear it’s much better now. When I was in the industry in 2013-2015 it was very amusing to hear someone in the same breath talk about how much they hated Maya but how silly and *unprofessional* Blender was.

therealdokks 4y ago

pabs3 4y ago

While self-hosted open source isn't immune to this, at least you could keep running an old version that still has the feature.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]