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President of VideoLAN here: we got banned since a few months, and we don’t know why. (According to my stats, it is since the 13 February 2022). We’ve asked the

by jbk 4y ago

President of VideoLAN here: we got banned since a few months, and we don’t know why. (According to my stats, it is since the 13 February 2022). We’ve asked the Indian government and we got no answer. We probably did not ask the right place though. I wish I knew how to ask properly. The weirdest is that some ISP are blocking it and some are not. So why is that the case? Are some ISP not listening to the government? VLC and VideoLAN are quite apolitical (we only fight against DRM and for open source) and VLC is a pure tool that can read anything.

sammy2244 4y ago
xNeil 4y ago
>The weirdest is that some ISP are blocking it and some are not. So why is that the case? Are some ISP not listening to the government? Pretty much. My ISP doesn't block half the stuff the Indian government has banned, while my mobile data provider has - it's genuinely very weird. Regarding contacting the government - maybe https://pgportal.gov.in https://pgportal.gov.in should help? File your grievance with the section of the government you want to complain to - in this case, I'd guess that's the Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology.
- jbk 4y ago
  > maybe https://pgportal.gov.in https://pgportal.gov.in should help? File your grievance with the section of the government you want to complain to - in this case, I'd guess that's the Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology. I will do that again then.
  - ishanjain28 4y ago
    A internet freedom activist group had filed a Right-to-Information(RTI) query to know why VLC was banned. The ministry responsible says they have no data on it. https://twitter.com/sflcin/status/1539877804116168704 https://twitter.com/sflcin/status/1539877804116168704
- gtirloni 4y ago
  > My ISP doesn't block half the stuff the Indian government has banned, while my mobile data provider has - it's genuinely very weird That's quite normal. Your ISP is probably much smaller than a telco and so drives much less scrutiny from law enforcement.
nindalf 4y ago
This is unfortunate, sorry you had to go through that. The article made a claim that VLC is owned by a Chinese entity. That surprised me because I thought VideoLAN was and is French. Is that the case?
- p49k 4y ago
  Maybe they corrected it, but for me it says the opposite. > Notably, VLC Media Player is not backed by a Chinese company. It is developed by VideoLAN, a Paris-based firm.
  - xNeil 4y ago
    The article basically states that the reason the government banned it was because Chinese actors were using VideoLAN products (VLC) to deploy malware loaders onto citizens' devices. I don't understand why they banned videolan.org though. It's a French website, and I'd assume the Chinese actors were bundling malware when VLC was installed from another website and not videolan.org. Videolan.org is EXACTLY where VLC should be downloaded from to ensure the software you download is malware free - ironically, I'd expect banning the VLC website to increase VLC downloads from alternative sources, and thus increasing the possibility of the user downloading malware.
    - YetAnotherNick 4y ago
      It says > The reason behind blocking these apps is that the government feared these platforms were sending user data to China Maybe they have some CDN or some service in China?
      - jbk 4y ago
        None whatsoever.
  - jbk 4y ago
    > It is developed by VideoLAN, a Paris-based firm. Non-profit, not firm.
watdeduck 4y ago
Some reports suggest that VLC Media Player has been blocked in the country because the platform was China-backed hacking group Cicada was using it for cyber attacks. Just a few months ago, security experts discovered that Cicada was using VLC Media Player to deploy a malicious malware loader as part of a long-running cyber attack campaign.
- jbk 4y ago
  Incorrect, Cicada deployed a custom version of VLC which was hacked. Use VLC from our website and you’ll be safe.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    But maybe the indian government did not care to differentiate?
    - m-p-3 4y ago
      Or lack the competence to take a good decision.
  - CompuHacker 4y ago
    Unrelated, do you have a stance on Ninite as a distribution method?
    - jbk 4y ago
      No, should we?
kubatyszko 4y ago
It must be because VLC allows people to watch pirated content. Which would be the most ridiculous reason to get banned for.
- alfiedotwtf 4y ago
  Sssshh! Please keep that opinion to yourself... we dont want thr Australian Government to get any ideas!
- hakube 4y ago
  Well if that is the case they would ban torrent clients and other video players
  - beeboop 4y ago
    Ban the internet in general IMO
    - whoibrar 4y ago
      Why stop there, ban electricity!
- collegeburner 4y ago
  so does windows media player lol
patrakov 4y ago
Please watch my FOSDEM talk from 2020, it explains the similar effect in Russia: https://archive.fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/sdnpof/ https://archive.fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/sdnpof/ The most likely explanation is: the government does not want to block your website, it is collateral damage. They want to block something else, but there is no technical possibility to block that without also blocking your website. This also explains variation between ISPs: there is no centralized solution for blocking. Some of them are using IP-based blocking because they have no technology that would look deeper, some of them block on the DNS level, and some on the TLS SNI level.
- anyfactor 4y ago
  The video wasn't loading for me there, here is the YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6SwxXhZGv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6SwxXhZGv4
  - patrakov 4y ago
    It wasn't loaded because the CDN that hosts it redirects from HTTPS to plain HTTP.
- pseudostem 4y ago
  I hold a Class B ISP license. We get letters (not emails, physical letters)from Department of Telecommunication asking us to block http://www.example.com http://www.example.com We don't bother with blocking http://example.com http://example.com or its https cousin. In this case we have not received any letter for VLC
  - OmarAssadi 4y ago
    Do they not also ever request blocks on particular IP addresses? A lot of collateral damage happened due to blocking whole ranges from AWS and such when Russia was trying to ban Telegram.
    - pseudostem 4y ago
bhushanvp 4y ago
VLC is one of the most commmon softwares in India, it's a "peoples' software". The ban won't last long, just try to contact I.T. ministry and explain your solution.
hkc 4y ago
Do you use Cloudflare? If yes, this could be the cause, but I'm not sure. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12091900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12091900
- jbk 4y ago
  No, we don’t.
heynowheynow 4y ago
Because The Great Dictator said so.
shmde 4y ago
> The weirdest is that some ISP are blocking it and some are not. So why is that the case? Are some ISP not listening to the government? Please, please, please don't include these sentences in any email you send to Indian govt. My ISP usually doesn't listen to the blocking instructions and most sites are unblocked, if you ask these questions directly to the government maybe they will go all in and enforce this rule. This blocklist is quite lax and not enforced with much severity, but if my government figures it out that there are many local ISPs who don't use the blocklist, the government they might start enforcing it more severity.
pythonb3sss 4y ago
Although I'm not sure, this [1] could be the reason. TLDR: A chinese hacker group took the official exe, added a malicious dll in it and distributed it to NGOs and government institutions, most likely through a clone website or phishing email. Purpose was said to be espionage. [EDIT] Ofcourse the Indian media reported that the official VideoLAN org was controlled by the said hacker group which leveraged it's position to distribute malware. [1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/chinese-hackers-abuse-vlc-media-player-to-launch-malware-loader/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/chinese-hacke...
toast0 4y ago
> The weirdest is that some ISP are blocking it and some are not. So why is that the case? Are some ISP not listening to the government? From experience being blocked from time to time in many countries... Most countries that block things ocassionally just aren't very good at blocking things. They might not consistently communicate with all ISPs; it's pretty common that all mobile ISPs will do blocking but no wireline ISPs do it. Sometimes only the major ISPs get asked. Sometimes they get asked and don't block for whatever reason. Sometimes ISPs take a long time to update block lists. Sometimes they'll block things from DNS, but only for people using their DNS servers. Best in class at blocking is probably the great firewall, but they sometimes do inconsistent blocking on purpose. As a sibling said, it's best not to bring up the inconsistencies if you find the right people to ask. If you haven't already contacted the TRAI (telecom regulatory authority of india), that's where I'd start, but I dunno.
webmobdev 4y ago
Indian here - you will have to go to the indian court to get your site unblocked. (Talking to our government will be like talking to a brick wall). As other's have pointed out, I too believe your site is just collateral damage in the fight against piracy. Now that the indian film industry is feeling the pinch of piracy because of the growth of high speed internet in India, and streaming platforms too are being aggressive against pirate sites (who they see as competitors), many torrent websites and pirate streaming platforms are now banned in India. The usual process for this is that the right holder can go to court and provide a list of URL's and ask for it to be blocked. The court then orders it to be blocked after conducting their enquiry (which often doesn't have any representation from the other party as most of these sites are foreign and many obviously will choose not to defend themselves in court unless they are not doing anything illegal). I speculate that in your case one of these people saw a link or reference to VLC in one of these pirate sites (many pirate sites do openly recommend VLC if someone complains they are unable to play their video file), and figured they'd include your site too (either out of ignorance, or deliberate malice to create hurdles for non-techies to watch the videos).
dominotw 4y ago
> The weirdest is that some ISP are blocking it and some are not. So why is that the case? Because India. Laws are merely guidelines here.
captain-coding 4y ago
ksec 4y ago
>VLC and VideoLAN are quite apolitical While both VLC and VideoLAN were started and mostly based in Europe ( France ) . It still takes a lot of courage in today's tech world to say you are apolitical. Which is partly forbidden because apolitical stance in itself is political, or so I have been told.

by jbk 4y ago

sammy2244 4y ago

xNeil 4y ago

>The weirdest is that some ISP are blocking it and some are not. So why is that the case? Are some ISP not listening to the government? Pretty much. My ISP doesn't block half the stuff the Indian government has banned, while my mobile data provider has - it's genuinely very weird. Regarding contacting the government - maybe https://pgportal.gov.in https://pgportal.gov.in should help? File your grievance with the section of the government you want to complain to - in this case, I'd guess that's the Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology.

jbk 4y ago
> maybe https://pgportal.gov.in https://pgportal.gov.in should help? File your grievance with the section of the government you want to complain to - in this case, I'd guess that's the Ministry of Electronics and Information Technology. I will do that again then.
- ishanjain28 4y ago
  A internet freedom activist group had filed a Right-to-Information(RTI) query to know why VLC was banned. The ministry responsible says they have no data on it. https://twitter.com/sflcin/status/1539877804116168704 https://twitter.com/sflcin/status/1539877804116168704
gtirloni 4y ago
> My ISP doesn't block half the stuff the Indian government has banned, while my mobile data provider has - it's genuinely very weird That's quite normal. Your ISP is probably much smaller than a telco and so drives much less scrutiny from law enforcement.

nindalf 4y ago

This is unfortunate, sorry you had to go through that. The article made a claim that VLC is owned by a Chinese entity. That surprised me because I thought VideoLAN was and is French. Is that the case?

p49k 4y ago
Maybe they corrected it, but for me it says the opposite. > Notably, VLC Media Player is not backed by a Chinese company. It is developed by VideoLAN, a Paris-based firm.
- xNeil 4y ago
  The article basically states that the reason the government banned it was because Chinese actors were using VideoLAN products (VLC) to deploy malware loaders onto citizens' devices. I don't understand why they banned videolan.org though. It's a French website, and I'd assume the Chinese actors were bundling malware when VLC was installed from another website and not videolan.org. Videolan.org is EXACTLY where VLC should be downloaded from to ensure the software you download is malware free - ironically, I'd expect banning the VLC website to increase VLC downloads from alternative sources, and thus increasing the possibility of the user downloading malware.
  - YetAnotherNick 4y ago
    It says > The reason behind blocking these apps is that the government feared these platforms were sending user data to China Maybe they have some CDN or some service in China?
    - jbk 4y ago
      None whatsoever.
- jbk 4y ago
  > It is developed by VideoLAN, a Paris-based firm. Non-profit, not firm.

watdeduck 4y ago

Some reports suggest that VLC Media Player has been blocked in the country because the platform was China-backed hacking group Cicada was using it for cyber attacks. Just a few months ago, security experts discovered that Cicada was using VLC Media Player to deploy a malicious malware loader as part of a long-running cyber attack campaign.

jbk 4y ago
Incorrect, Cicada deployed a custom version of VLC which was hacked. Use VLC from our website and you’ll be safe.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  But maybe the indian government did not care to differentiate?
  - m-p-3 4y ago
    Or lack the competence to take a good decision.
- CompuHacker 4y ago
  Unrelated, do you have a stance on Ninite as a distribution method?
  - jbk 4y ago
    No, should we?

kubatyszko 4y ago

It must be because VLC allows people to watch pirated content. Which would be the most ridiculous reason to get banned for.

alfiedotwtf 4y ago
Sssshh! Please keep that opinion to yourself... we dont want thr Australian Government to get any ideas!
hakube 4y ago
Well if that is the case they would ban torrent clients and other video players
- beeboop 4y ago
  Ban the internet in general IMO
  - whoibrar 4y ago
    Why stop there, ban electricity!
collegeburner 4y ago
so does windows media player lol

patrakov 4y ago

Please watch my FOSDEM talk from 2020, it explains the similar effect in Russia: https://archive.fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/sdnpof/ https://archive.fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/sdnpof/ The most likely explanation is: the government does not want to block your website, it is collateral damage. They want to block something else, but there is no technical possibility to block that without also blocking your website. This also explains variation between ISPs: there is no centralized solution for blocking. Some of them are using IP-based blocking because they have no technology that would look deeper, some of them block on the DNS level, and some on the TLS SNI level.

anyfactor 4y ago
The video wasn't loading for me there, here is the YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6SwxXhZGv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6SwxXhZGv4
- patrakov 4y ago
  It wasn't loaded because the CDN that hosts it redirects from HTTPS to plain HTTP.
pseudostem 4y ago
I hold a Class B ISP license. We get letters (not emails, physical letters)from Department of Telecommunication asking us to block http://www.example.com http://www.example.com We don't bother with blocking http://example.com http://example.com or its https cousin. In this case we have not received any letter for VLC
- OmarAssadi 4y ago
  Do they not also ever request blocks on particular IP addresses? A lot of collateral damage happened due to blocking whole ranges from AWS and such when Russia was trying to ban Telegram.
  - pseudostem 4y ago

bhushanvp 4y ago

VLC is one of the most commmon softwares in India, it's a "peoples' software". The ban won't last long, just try to contact I.T. ministry and explain your solution.

hkc 4y ago

Do you use Cloudflare? If yes, this could be the cause, but I'm not sure. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12091900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12091900

jbk 4y ago
No, we don’t.

heynowheynow 4y ago

Because The Great Dictator said so.

shmde 4y ago

> The weirdest is that some ISP are blocking it and some are not. So why is that the case? Are some ISP not listening to the government? Please, please, please don't include these sentences in any email you send to Indian govt. My ISP usually doesn't listen to the blocking instructions and most sites are unblocked, if you ask these questions directly to the government maybe they will go all in and enforce this rule. This blocklist is quite lax and not enforced with much severity, but if my government figures it out that there are many local ISPs who don't use the blocklist, the government they might start enforcing it more severity.

pythonb3sss 4y ago

Although I'm not sure, this [1] could be the reason. TLDR: A chinese hacker group took the official exe, added a malicious dll in it and distributed it to NGOs and government institutions, most likely through a clone website or phishing email. Purpose was said to be espionage. [EDIT] Ofcourse the Indian media reported that the official VideoLAN org was controlled by the said hacker group which leveraged it's position to distribute malware. [1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/chinese-hackers-abuse-vlc-media-player-to-launch-malware-loader/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/chinese-hacke...

toast0 4y ago

> The weirdest is that some ISP are blocking it and some are not. So why is that the case? Are some ISP not listening to the government? From experience being blocked from time to time in many countries... Most countries that block things ocassionally just aren't very good at blocking things. They might not consistently communicate with all ISPs; it's pretty common that all mobile ISPs will do blocking but no wireline ISPs do it. Sometimes only the major ISPs get asked. Sometimes they get asked and don't block for whatever reason. Sometimes ISPs take a long time to update block lists. Sometimes they'll block things from DNS, but only for people using their DNS servers. Best in class at blocking is probably the great firewall, but they sometimes do inconsistent blocking on purpose. As a sibling said, it's best not to bring up the inconsistencies if you find the right people to ask. If you haven't already contacted the TRAI (telecom regulatory authority of india), that's where I'd start, but I dunno.

webmobdev 4y ago

Indian here - you will have to go to the indian court to get your site unblocked. (Talking to our government will be like talking to a brick wall). As other's have pointed out, I too believe your site is just collateral damage in the fight against piracy. Now that the indian film industry is feeling the pinch of piracy because of the growth of high speed internet in India, and streaming platforms too are being aggressive against pirate sites (who they see as competitors), many torrent websites and pirate streaming platforms are now banned in India. The usual process for this is that the right holder can go to court and provide a list of URL's and ask for it to be blocked. The court then orders it to be blocked after conducting their enquiry (which often doesn't have any representation from the other party as most of these sites are foreign and many obviously will choose not to defend themselves in court unless they are not doing anything illegal). I speculate that in your case one of these people saw a link or reference to VLC in one of these pirate sites (many pirate sites do openly recommend VLC if someone complains they are unable to play their video file), and figured they'd include your site too (either out of ignorance, or deliberate malice to create hurdles for non-techies to watch the videos).

dominotw 4y ago

> The weirdest is that some ISP are blocking it and some are not. So why is that the case? Because India. Laws are merely guidelines here.

captain-coding 4y ago

ksec 4y ago

>VLC and VideoLAN are quite apolitical While both VLC and VideoLAN were started and mostly based in Europe ( France ) . It still takes a lot of courage in today's tech world to say you are apolitical. Which is partly forbidden because apolitical stance in itself is political, or so I have been told.