7 ms·

They're finding PFAS in everything now. https://www.consumerreports.org/bottled-water/pfas-in-bottled-water-new-study-finds-a1111233122/ https://www.consumerre

They're finding PFAS in everything now. https://www.consumerreports.org/bottled-water/pfas-in-bottled-water-new-study-finds-a1111233122/ https://www.consumerreports.org/bottled-water/pfas-in-bottle... https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7gban/rainwater-everywhere-now-considered-too-toxic-for-safe-consumption-study-finds https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7gban/rainwater-everywhere-... https://www.dcourier.com/news/2022/aug/11/prescott-valley-shuts-down-4-wells-after-positive-/ https://www.dcourier.com/news/2022/aug/11/prescott-valley-sh...

Synaesthesia 4y ago
I just read that rainwater around the world is unsafe to drink because of PFAS contamination. https://phys.org/news/2022-08-rainwater-unsafe-due-chemicals.html https://phys.org/news/2022-08-rainwater-unsafe-due-chemicals...
- bilsbie 4y ago
  Rainwater pretty much distills itself as it evaporates. I didn’t read the article but it seems like they’d new some new physics to get it into rain.
  - philipkglass 4y ago
    The PFAS that show up in rain get there by also having a vapor pressure sufficient for atmospheric transport. They evaporate and condense with the rain. These chemicals aren't Teflon itself but other polyfluorinated molecules, used as intermediates in Teflon product production or for other purposes.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - hombre_fatal 4y ago
    I just googled it. PFAS are simply emitted into the atmosphere and then brought back, rain precipitation being one method of "atmospheric deposition" (something to google). i.e. water doesn't need to evaporate with something in aerosol suspension for that thing to be found in precipitation.
- Victerius 4y ago
  .
  - chinathrow 4y ago
    > I would be banned if I laid out the remainder of my thinking. Go ahead.
    - Aachen 4y ago
      I don't know what a bannable offense on HN would be, inciting violence perhaps? Wishing harm upon certain groups? Either way, I'm not sure we need to invite it if they already say it's over the line and not suitable. If we can have a civil discussion then obviously I'm with you that everyone should have their say... but that wouldn't elicit a ban.
      - NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
        Irritating dang is enough.
  - pbhjpbhj 4y ago
    Throwaway accounts are a thing ...
  - hammock 4y ago
    Can be purified. Activated charcoal filters are not the most efficient solution, but work reasonably well and can be easily built in an off-grid environment
    - johnchristopher 4y ago
      > In order to make activated charcoal with all its nooks and crannies, regular carbon sources are transformed in one of two ways: either physically or chemically. > In physical activation, wood, coal, or any regular carbon source is first heated up to 600 to 900 degrees Celsius (1000 to 1600 degrees Fahrenheit) in a chamber filled with inert gas. The inert gas ensures that the carbon doesn’t burn. Instead, as the carbon is heated, any impurities left on it are vaporized and removed, leaving nothing but pure carbon. > Next, the pure carbon is exposed to oxygen or steam baths at even higher temperatures. This causes the carbon to fracture and form the fractal shapes with their extremely large total surface area. > In chemical activation, raw carbon sources are mixed with an acid, base, or a salt. The mixture is then heated. Chemical activation takes less heat and less time to achieve the end result, which makes it the method of choice for large scale activation. Doesn't look "easily" to me but that's the first link google showed me (https://www.thinkcrucial.com/blogs/blog/how-activated-charcoal-filters-work https://www.thinkcrucial.com/blogs/blog/how-activated-charco...) What bothers me though is that our environment is changing so much and so fast that homo sapiens could not emerge tomorrow like they did first. No way a primate without culture or science is going to regularly scramble a charcoal filter to drink water.
- drewcoo 4y ago
  Made me wonder how much of it we're breathing. Especially in the fog if it's waterborne.
  - randycupertino 4y ago
    Bay Area coastal fog has been found to contain high levels of mercury: https://news.ucsc.edu/2019/11/wilmers-mercury.html https://news.ucsc.edu/2019/11/wilmers-mercury.html > Mercury, a naturally occurring element, is released into the environment through a variety of natural processes and human activities, including mining and coal-fired power plants. "Mercury is a global pollutant," said Weiss-Penzias. "What's emitted in China can affect the United States just as much as what's emitted in the United States." > As atmospheric mercury rains down on oceans, it is converted by anaerobic bacteria in deep waters to methylmercury, the most toxic form of mercury. Upwelling brings some methylmercury to the surface, where it is released back into the atmosphere and carried by fog. At high concentrations, methylmercury can cause neurological damage, including memory loss and reduced motor coordination, and it can decrease the viability of offspring. > "Fog is a stabilizing medium for methylmercury," said Weiss-Penzias. "Fog drifts inland and rains down in microdroplets, collecting on vegetation and dripping to the ground, where the slow process of bioaccumulation begins."
- majormajor 4y ago
  Is there universal treatment for this in most countries or does this also imply that municipal water everywhere is equally "unsafe"? Some quick Googling suggests common britta filters don't remove it either, for instance. unsafe in scare quotes because the article says environmental levels have been steady for the past 20 years and we aren't all dead yet... and lots of animals of course drink rainwater more directly out of bodies of water. It's obviously not a good thing but I don't this means "we're doomed"... the article here cites a professor saying we just have to live with it, but it would be also interesting to see if anyone had leads on removal or any sort of mitigation/protection/neutralization schemes.
- IshKebab 4y ago
  > However, Cousins noted that PFAS levels in people have actually dropped "quite significantly in the last 20 years" and "ambient levels (of PFAS in the environment) have been the same for the past 20 years". > "What's changed is the guidelines. They've gone down millions of times since the early 2000s, because we've learned more about the toxicity of these substances."
hammock 4y ago
Notably, PFAS are in the food supply chain to a significant and non transparent degree. Those compostable fiber salad bowls are up to 25% PFAS. The extruders that make your dried pasta and other machine parts that make other processed foods are coated with PFAS. The paper that your sandwich is packed in is coated with PFAS. The paper straw that replaced your plastic one, to save the turtles...is coated with PFAS. Did you really think a cardboard straw could hold up for more than a few seconds in a cup of liquid without some type of coating?? That's the food supply. Don't get me started on everything else. The device you are touching right now, your cell phone screen, is coated with PFAS.
- pengaru 4y ago
  > Did you really think a cardboard straw could hold up for more than a few seconds in a cup of liquid without some type of coating?? Maybe everyone just assumes it's a relatively harmless wax coating like ye old Dixie cups and not some "forever chemical?"
  - hammock 4y ago
    Yes. And coated cups like the kind you get for coffee don't use wax anymore (and if they do it's petroleum derived paraffin). They are more likely to use a high-temp polymer
    - Enginerrrd 4y ago
      Paraffin is what most people are thinking of when someone uses the term "wax". I don't think there's an inherent problem there.
    - cfraenkel 4y ago
      Says you. Doesn't explain why drinking coffee from them triggers a corn allergy, while the exact same coffee from the same store/barrista in a ceramic cup is fine.
      - hammock 4y ago
benevol 4y ago
Distill your water, it's the only way to have clean, safe water.
- andrekandre 4y ago
  isnt truly distilled water lacking any minerals? i would think you would need to add back (salt, magnesium, calcium etc) whatever was lost or it would be pretty unhealthy. [0] [0] https://healthyliving.azcentral.com/what-are-the-dangers-of-drinking-distilled-water-12394603.html https://healthyliving.azcentral.com/what-are-the-dangers-of-...
  - userbinator 4y ago
    It's a myth that distilled water is dangerous. You get the vast majority of those salts just from the food you eat.

Synaesthesia 4y ago

I just read that rainwater around the world is unsafe to drink because of PFAS contamination. https://phys.org/news/2022-08-rainwater-unsafe-due-chemicals.html https://phys.org/news/2022-08-rainwater-unsafe-due-chemicals...

bilsbie 4y ago
Rainwater pretty much distills itself as it evaporates. I didn’t read the article but it seems like they’d new some new physics to get it into rain.
- philipkglass 4y ago
  The PFAS that show up in rain get there by also having a vapor pressure sufficient for atmospheric transport. They evaporate and condense with the rain. These chemicals aren't Teflon itself but other polyfluorinated molecules, used as intermediates in Teflon product production or for other purposes.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- hombre_fatal 4y ago
  I just googled it. PFAS are simply emitted into the atmosphere and then brought back, rain precipitation being one method of "atmospheric deposition" (something to google). i.e. water doesn't need to evaporate with something in aerosol suspension for that thing to be found in precipitation.
Victerius 4y ago
.
- chinathrow 4y ago
  > I would be banned if I laid out the remainder of my thinking. Go ahead.
  - Aachen 4y ago
    I don't know what a bannable offense on HN would be, inciting violence perhaps? Wishing harm upon certain groups? Either way, I'm not sure we need to invite it if they already say it's over the line and not suitable. If we can have a civil discussion then obviously I'm with you that everyone should have their say... but that wouldn't elicit a ban.
    - NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
      Irritating dang is enough.
- pbhjpbhj 4y ago
  Throwaway accounts are a thing ...
- hammock 4y ago
  Can be purified. Activated charcoal filters are not the most efficient solution, but work reasonably well and can be easily built in an off-grid environment
  - johnchristopher 4y ago
    > In order to make activated charcoal with all its nooks and crannies, regular carbon sources are transformed in one of two ways: either physically or chemically. > In physical activation, wood, coal, or any regular carbon source is first heated up to 600 to 900 degrees Celsius (1000 to 1600 degrees Fahrenheit) in a chamber filled with inert gas. The inert gas ensures that the carbon doesn’t burn. Instead, as the carbon is heated, any impurities left on it are vaporized and removed, leaving nothing but pure carbon. > Next, the pure carbon is exposed to oxygen or steam baths at even higher temperatures. This causes the carbon to fracture and form the fractal shapes with their extremely large total surface area. > In chemical activation, raw carbon sources are mixed with an acid, base, or a salt. The mixture is then heated. Chemical activation takes less heat and less time to achieve the end result, which makes it the method of choice for large scale activation. Doesn't look "easily" to me but that's the first link google showed me (https://www.thinkcrucial.com/blogs/blog/how-activated-charcoal-filters-work https://www.thinkcrucial.com/blogs/blog/how-activated-charco...) What bothers me though is that our environment is changing so much and so fast that homo sapiens could not emerge tomorrow like they did first. No way a primate without culture or science is going to regularly scramble a charcoal filter to drink water.
drewcoo 4y ago
Made me wonder how much of it we're breathing. Especially in the fog if it's waterborne.
- randycupertino 4y ago
  Bay Area coastal fog has been found to contain high levels of mercury: https://news.ucsc.edu/2019/11/wilmers-mercury.html https://news.ucsc.edu/2019/11/wilmers-mercury.html > Mercury, a naturally occurring element, is released into the environment through a variety of natural processes and human activities, including mining and coal-fired power plants. "Mercury is a global pollutant," said Weiss-Penzias. "What's emitted in China can affect the United States just as much as what's emitted in the United States." > As atmospheric mercury rains down on oceans, it is converted by anaerobic bacteria in deep waters to methylmercury, the most toxic form of mercury. Upwelling brings some methylmercury to the surface, where it is released back into the atmosphere and carried by fog. At high concentrations, methylmercury can cause neurological damage, including memory loss and reduced motor coordination, and it can decrease the viability of offspring. > "Fog is a stabilizing medium for methylmercury," said Weiss-Penzias. "Fog drifts inland and rains down in microdroplets, collecting on vegetation and dripping to the ground, where the slow process of bioaccumulation begins."
majormajor 4y ago
Is there universal treatment for this in most countries or does this also imply that municipal water everywhere is equally "unsafe"? Some quick Googling suggests common britta filters don't remove it either, for instance. unsafe in scare quotes because the article says environmental levels have been steady for the past 20 years and we aren't all dead yet... and lots of animals of course drink rainwater more directly out of bodies of water. It's obviously not a good thing but I don't this means "we're doomed"... the article here cites a professor saying we just have to live with it, but it would be also interesting to see if anyone had leads on removal or any sort of mitigation/protection/neutralization schemes.
IshKebab 4y ago
> However, Cousins noted that PFAS levels in people have actually dropped "quite significantly in the last 20 years" and "ambient levels (of PFAS in the environment) have been the same for the past 20 years". > "What's changed is the guidelines. They've gone down millions of times since the early 2000s, because we've learned more about the toxicity of these substances."

hammock 4y ago

Notably, PFAS are in the food supply chain to a significant and non transparent degree. Those compostable fiber salad bowls are up to 25% PFAS. The extruders that make your dried pasta and other machine parts that make other processed foods are coated with PFAS. The paper that your sandwich is packed in is coated with PFAS. The paper straw that replaced your plastic one, to save the turtles...is coated with PFAS. Did you really think a cardboard straw could hold up for more than a few seconds in a cup of liquid without some type of coating?? That's the food supply. Don't get me started on everything else. The device you are touching right now, your cell phone screen, is coated with PFAS.

pengaru 4y ago
> Did you really think a cardboard straw could hold up for more than a few seconds in a cup of liquid without some type of coating?? Maybe everyone just assumes it's a relatively harmless wax coating like ye old Dixie cups and not some "forever chemical?"
- hammock 4y ago
  Yes. And coated cups like the kind you get for coffee don't use wax anymore (and if they do it's petroleum derived paraffin). They are more likely to use a high-temp polymer
  - Enginerrrd 4y ago
    Paraffin is what most people are thinking of when someone uses the term "wax". I don't think there's an inherent problem there.
  - cfraenkel 4y ago
    Says you. Doesn't explain why drinking coffee from them triggers a corn allergy, while the exact same coffee from the same store/barrista in a ceramic cup is fine.
    - hammock 4y ago

benevol 4y ago

Distill your water, it's the only way to have clean, safe water.

andrekandre 4y ago
isnt truly distilled water lacking any minerals? i would think you would need to add back (salt, magnesium, calcium etc) whatever was lost or it would be pretty unhealthy. [0] [0] https://healthyliving.azcentral.com/what-are-the-dangers-of-drinking-distilled-water-12394603.html https://healthyliving.azcentral.com/what-are-the-dangers-of-...
- userbinator 4y ago
  It's a myth that distilled water is dangerous. You get the vast majority of those salts just from the food you eat.