3 ms·

2) is because making a distributed system is more interesting and fun than debugging why your ORM making inefficient DB queries.

brazzy 4y ago
I'd say that you often want a small distributed system for availability reasons, even if scalability is not a concern.
agilob 4y ago
>why your ORM making inefficient DB queries It's also crazy that we still have this and other basic problems with databases. Frontend and backend is moving so fast, with so many fun technologies, but even backing up mid-size database, testing backup and restring it, isn't a trivial problem...
- SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
  The market demand for database work is primarily not in making mid-size databases work better, but in making the "mid-size database" abstraction work on increasingly large (and increasingly distributed) datasets. I'm familiar with large companies who routinely run SQL queries over ~all their logs; a decade ago that would have been somewhere between extremely challenging and impossible.
- datavirtue 4y ago
  When you have three folders stuffed with hundreds of files that are laced with your ORM annotations the ship has already sailed.
holdenk 4y ago
This is so true. Hire a bunch of senior engineers to solve junior level problems and they'll turn the junior level problems into senior level problems :p
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  I'm mostly surprised how developers as a community can both: - Espouse we really need to care about communication in every form - Still manage to let a few 'seniors' capable of solving the problem do so, at the cost of destroying most momentum by making the solution incredibly difficult to reason about and leaving next to zero documentation behind. Then again, when business doesn't give the time to fix this or doublecheck, it's no wonder. And then hiring managers look cross-eyed at developers for wanting to work on green project instead of the next dumpster fire
toast0 4y ago
If you've got an ORM, you almost certainly have a distributed system already (arguably not if your ORM is talking to SQLite in process). Even if DB and application are on the same host, I'd call it at least a potentially distributed system. I'll do the de-minimus anti-ORM screed here and just say if it's harder to get an ORM to make efficient queries than it is to write efficient queries by hand, maybe an ORM isn't a necessary abstraction layer.
disgruntledphd2 4y ago
That only happens the first time though. Distributed systems are the devil when it comes to debugability.

brazzy 4y ago

I'd say that you often want a small distributed system for availability reasons, even if scalability is not a concern.

agilob 4y ago

>why your ORM making inefficient DB queries It's also crazy that we still have this and other basic problems with databases. Frontend and backend is moving so fast, with so many fun technologies, but even backing up mid-size database, testing backup and restring it, isn't a trivial problem...

SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
The market demand for database work is primarily not in making mid-size databases work better, but in making the "mid-size database" abstraction work on increasingly large (and increasingly distributed) datasets. I'm familiar with large companies who routinely run SQL queries over ~all their logs; a decade ago that would have been somewhere between extremely challenging and impossible.
datavirtue 4y ago
When you have three folders stuffed with hundreds of files that are laced with your ORM annotations the ship has already sailed.

holdenk 4y ago

This is so true. Hire a bunch of senior engineers to solve junior level problems and they'll turn the junior level problems into senior level problems :p

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
I'm mostly surprised how developers as a community can both: - Espouse we really need to care about communication in every form - Still manage to let a few 'seniors' capable of solving the problem do so, at the cost of destroying most momentum by making the solution incredibly difficult to reason about and leaving next to zero documentation behind. Then again, when business doesn't give the time to fix this or doublecheck, it's no wonder. And then hiring managers look cross-eyed at developers for wanting to work on green project instead of the next dumpster fire

toast0 4y ago

If you've got an ORM, you almost certainly have a distributed system already (arguably not if your ORM is talking to SQLite in process). Even if DB and application are on the same host, I'd call it at least a potentially distributed system. I'll do the de-minimus anti-ORM screed here and just say if it's harder to get an ORM to make efficient queries than it is to write efficient queries by hand, maybe an ORM isn't a necessary abstraction layer.

disgruntledphd2 4y ago

That only happens the first time though. Distributed systems are the devil when it comes to debugability.