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Author here, thanks for reading. I didn’t give much information about my life, but I am pretty adept at playing all these games. So much so that I thought ther

by larve 4y ago

Author here, thanks for reading. I didn’t give much information about my life, but I am pretty adept at playing all these games. So much so that I thought there was no way I could be autistic because of how many friends and business relationships I had. Until it hit me that I spent my 20ies doing what you suggest, which is studying the heck out of these things. But it stops at engineering, where I try to be very open-minded and learn as much as I can. I have to readily accept I am wrong on most of my assumptions because I just couldn’t be a good engineer otherwise. I can be perfectly suave and agreeable discussing anything else. That means I probably know how to play the “acquiesce when you should” game quite well. But I’m at work because I am blessed to have a job where I get to do what I care about: good engineering. I deliver great value when people understand my way of thinking, and thankfully I have plenty of colleagues that get it.

dusted 4y ago
Thank you for answering. I very much relate.. I've been so bitter as to keep a small list of "told you so's" that I'd update when my rejected ideas were finally proven to be the better path (though it may have been months or even years after the fact (most agonizing when someone else suggested exactly the same thing, but explained it in other terms,focusing on things I didn't find central to the point). In the end I deleted the file. Some of the "told you so's" were petty things anyway, and.. Now I try and take it as part of my responsibility to work a bit harder at finding arguments against my point of view, as well as work a bit more politically to get it through when I'm ready to put my head on the line that I'm right and everyone else are wrong. P.S. I'm closing in on the big 4-o and I'm still working on myself, still trying to learn politics, how to talk with nontechnical superiors and how to accept that sometimes, we go with the wrong solution because someone else tells so.
- larve 4y ago
  Thanks! I wish you the best. Being bitter is something I hate, and it's very non-productive. The best way to move forward when I disagree with say, architectural decisions or tech stack decisions (because it's very valid to disagree here, they're just really unknowns that we can try our best to sketch out), is to have us all write down the pros and cons, and depending on the project, timebox it and revisit certain decisions at a latter date. This is acknowledging that either opinion can be right, wrong, in between, and we might never find out, yet a decision needs to be made. In a way, it's a way to do a team-wide "we told us so, so what now?"
atoav 4y ago
A thing to consider is that it is often not just about the facts. Often it is also about social convention and other things. If (for example) that one struggling colleague is shining in front of a superior and you are the guy who rains on his parade by nitpicking some detail he said, you might be technically right, but you end up being perceived as an asshole because you acted like one. If if that example you strictly need to be right for some reason, you could also just talk to the guy afterwards etc. And this is what all of it essentially boils down to: It is good to be right, as long as the way you communicate it is adequate for the situation. If people have a low effort chit chat and don't want to go too deep into things, it might not be wise to get all excited and monologoue about how everything they know is wrong. If someone shows you something they have been working on for weeks, maybe it is wiser to aknowledge the good things first, before going into the bad things. Generally it is better to have others discover facts themselves than spitting them out in front of them. Sure, if the boat is literally sinking and they claim punching more holes will help, this might be a good moment for a statement without nuance — but such statements have their time and place and should not be used everywhere.
- cat_plus_plus 4y ago
  We are talking about accepting that you are wrong, not incessantly pointing out that others are wrong on some minor thing. Resisting people who do the later is perfectly healthy.
rendall 4y ago
Given the headline, I thought it would be an article about what it looks like when you acknowledge that you are wrong and why people might not understand that you are, in fact, acknowledging when you are wrong. Instead, it was an entire article that not once acknowledged that you could be wrong, nor what it looks like when you do acknowledge it. It detailed about how, actually, you're not usually wrong. This article appears to underscore the accusation.
- larve 4y ago
  Thanks for reading. I agree, this article is about the times when things escalated, and I didn’t think I was wrong, or more precisely, didn’t even get to the point where I could be wrong. When I’m wrong I just say “oh you’re right, good point” and move on. It’s very easy to do.
  - rendall 4y ago
    I have a girlfriend who believes herself to be on the autism spectrum, and I cannot over years ever recall her admitting that she was wrong or apologizing at any time for anything. We do get along despite that, but I was kind of hoping for insight.
    - larve 4y ago
      This does sound odd, but if it works for you... My examples are definitely all about the workplace.
      - rendall 4y ago
        She's pretty great, lack of apologies notwithstanding
    - cecilpl2 4y ago
      Well, that's interesting. My ex-wife also never once admitted she was wrong or genuinely apologized to me for anything. Her brother was diagnosed Asperger's and I strongly suspected both her parents were as well. Sadly I don't have much to share in the way of insight.
JohnHaugeland 4y ago
Would you even want to know if other people thought you read these situations incorrectly?
- larve 4y ago
  It's oh so hard to relate a conversation you were involved in in a manner that's transparent enough for making a proper assessment, especially since I know I am actually missing a lot of subtext. That said, I have a coach that helps me with this, and I work on my writing a lot. I am currently at a job where I never run into this particular problem, yet I have thorny discussions with lots of "disagreements" all the time. This really helped me understand that it's not just me.
white_dragon88 4y ago
I’m pretty sure I’m autistic on some level, I can look back on my life and point at the many clear signs (which go well beyond socially awkward behaviour). What I do try to do though is not let that be a part of my identity. I hate identity politics in general, and the title rubbed me the wrong way. Firstly, who even says that? You? Like one person you met, or an article you read somewhere? It’s a pretty outlandish thing to say regardless of who is saying it, so the article feels like you’re basically teeing up and easy ball to hit. Just my thoughts, take them for what you will
- larve 4y ago
  It's actually just lifted from here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32192873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32192873
xupybd 4y ago
How did you learn you were autistic? I've always thought I might be but I've not invested the time in finding out.
- larve 4y ago
  I was watching the netflix documentary about rubik's cube on netflix with my wife, and you see this autistic kid (rubik's cube champion), who doesn't speak until he's three, being friend with a much more socially accomplished other champion, and you can see him over the documentary looking at his friend and learning. I saw that and I suddenly realized that my whole twenties, that's exactly what I did. I read books and copied other people and wrote notes about social rules and practiced and practiced. I also started speaking at age 3 or 4 (my parents weren't really worried because I grew up bilingual and apparently it's common for bilingual kids to speak late). I did take a few autism tests here and there, but always thought "oh they're just meant to make you feel special when you score high, that doesn't mean anything. plus i make good friends everywhere I go". When I told my wife she was like "who thinks that scoring high on an autism test is something people want", and we both took some of these tests. On one of the more widespread one (https://embrace-autism.com/autism-spectrum-quotient/ https://embrace-autism.com/autism-spectrum-quotient/ ), I scored 43, while she scored something like 12. My mind was absolutely blown. I started reading a few books and joining a few autism communities, and it might sound trite, but it's the first time in my life that I felt like I joined "my" community. So many of the stories and anecdotes I would read were like "finally I read something I can relate to". I am looking for an official diagnosis (not simple) without too much effort, because I find most of the value in now being able to articulate so many of the things that puzzle me, or the conflicts I might have with my wife, or behaviours of mine, and mostly not being ashamed anymore. It's been extremely liberating, and it provides me with better words and verbs to tackle difficult situations.
  - xupybd 4y ago
    Wow 43 out of 50 is rather high. I fell under the the suggested threshold of 32 and got 29. I have similar memories of my 20s trying to learn how to behave in a social setting. But I also remember things clicking at some point and that part of the world stopped requiring so much effort. Thank you for sharing. I hope you're able to get your diagnosis.
RobRivera 4y ago
there is an interesting theory put forth that Quidditch is a metaphor for life. Harry is a seeker that ignores the entire game say for hyperfocusing on catching that little golden ball thingy (sorry, not a potterhead). The rest if the players play the game by all these rules, but each player has 1 seeker ignoring everything but that one Northstar, that super fast gold annoying thingy. I like to akin your choice as choosing to assume the role of seeker. its lonely, its challenging, and everyone else seems to not care to play THAT game (some may say is a metaphor for divinity). But the reward is YOU WIN THE GAME. significantly better payout. I share the metaphor to say that A) I understand you, B) I share your feelings and choice on the matter of identifying and managing Real Politik and C) congratulate you for identifying your true north star and having the strength to pursue in in spite of it not being rhe standard for others.
nakedrobot2 4y ago
You sound like the "asperger's" person who we are in the process of offboarding from our team. One can have asperger's and still be nice to people. These things are not mutually exclusive. I see too many people who find it convenient to be a toxic, rude bully, and don't know that they are, and use their condition as an excuse to be a jerk.
- larve 4y ago
  It could also be in between: Their actions are interpreted as way more of a rude behaviour than they intend them to be, and they don't know how to come across in a better manner. From my experience, it's usually not a problem to be pretty forward with people on the spectrum, if you are meaning well. My wife told me there is absolutely no problem with telling me to stop going on about a topic bluntly, and it is something I quite often do with my friends too. Same for pointing out that a certain way of phrasing something didn't come across well, in fact I really appreciate receiving these pieces of advice. What hurts is the "NT" way of communicating these things, hoping that I'd catch up on them. I don't.
- apricot13 4y ago
  Just fyi: > In 2013, the DSM-5 replaced Autistic Disorder, Asperger’s Disorder and other pervasive developmental disorders with the umbrella diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder.
  - thingthatwas 4y ago
    It's still widely used as a term, given the people diagnosed with it retain their diagnosis. There's also a lexical lacuna without it for "autistic, but close to neurotypical-presenting", so it fills a need there in a way "autism" and even "high functioning autism" don't.
cocacolacowboy 4y ago

by larve 4y ago

dusted 4y ago

Thank you for answering. I very much relate.. I've been so bitter as to keep a small list of "told you so's" that I'd update when my rejected ideas were finally proven to be the better path (though it may have been months or even years after the fact (most agonizing when someone else suggested exactly the same thing, but explained it in other terms,focusing on things I didn't find central to the point). In the end I deleted the file. Some of the "told you so's" were petty things anyway, and.. Now I try and take it as part of my responsibility to work a bit harder at finding arguments against my point of view, as well as work a bit more politically to get it through when I'm ready to put my head on the line that I'm right and everyone else are wrong. P.S. I'm closing in on the big 4-o and I'm still working on myself, still trying to learn politics, how to talk with nontechnical superiors and how to accept that sometimes, we go with the wrong solution because someone else tells so.

larve 4y ago
Thanks! I wish you the best. Being bitter is something I hate, and it's very non-productive. The best way to move forward when I disagree with say, architectural decisions or tech stack decisions (because it's very valid to disagree here, they're just really unknowns that we can try our best to sketch out), is to have us all write down the pros and cons, and depending on the project, timebox it and revisit certain decisions at a latter date. This is acknowledging that either opinion can be right, wrong, in between, and we might never find out, yet a decision needs to be made. In a way, it's a way to do a team-wide "we told us so, so what now?"

atoav 4y ago

A thing to consider is that it is often not just about the facts. Often it is also about social convention and other things. If (for example) that one struggling colleague is shining in front of a superior and you are the guy who rains on his parade by nitpicking some detail he said, you might be technically right, but you end up being perceived as an asshole because you acted like one. If if that example you strictly need to be right for some reason, you could also just talk to the guy afterwards etc. And this is what all of it essentially boils down to: It is good to be right, as long as the way you communicate it is adequate for the situation. If people have a low effort chit chat and don't want to go too deep into things, it might not be wise to get all excited and monologoue about how everything they know is wrong. If someone shows you something they have been working on for weeks, maybe it is wiser to aknowledge the good things first, before going into the bad things. Generally it is better to have others discover facts themselves than spitting them out in front of them. Sure, if the boat is literally sinking and they claim punching more holes will help, this might be a good moment for a statement without nuance — but such statements have their time and place and should not be used everywhere.

cat_plus_plus 4y ago
We are talking about accepting that you are wrong, not incessantly pointing out that others are wrong on some minor thing. Resisting people who do the later is perfectly healthy.

rendall 4y ago

Given the headline, I thought it would be an article about what it looks like when you acknowledge that you are wrong and why people might not understand that you are, in fact, acknowledging when you are wrong. Instead, it was an entire article that not once acknowledged that you could be wrong, nor what it looks like when you do acknowledge it. It detailed about how, actually, you're not usually wrong. This article appears to underscore the accusation.

larve 4y ago
Thanks for reading. I agree, this article is about the times when things escalated, and I didn’t think I was wrong, or more precisely, didn’t even get to the point where I could be wrong. When I’m wrong I just say “oh you’re right, good point” and move on. It’s very easy to do.
- rendall 4y ago
  I have a girlfriend who believes herself to be on the autism spectrum, and I cannot over years ever recall her admitting that she was wrong or apologizing at any time for anything. We do get along despite that, but I was kind of hoping for insight.
  - larve 4y ago
    This does sound odd, but if it works for you... My examples are definitely all about the workplace.
    - rendall 4y ago
      She's pretty great, lack of apologies notwithstanding
  - cecilpl2 4y ago
    Well, that's interesting. My ex-wife also never once admitted she was wrong or genuinely apologized to me for anything. Her brother was diagnosed Asperger's and I strongly suspected both her parents were as well. Sadly I don't have much to share in the way of insight.

JohnHaugeland 4y ago

Would you even want to know if other people thought you read these situations incorrectly?

larve 4y ago
It's oh so hard to relate a conversation you were involved in in a manner that's transparent enough for making a proper assessment, especially since I know I am actually missing a lot of subtext. That said, I have a coach that helps me with this, and I work on my writing a lot. I am currently at a job where I never run into this particular problem, yet I have thorny discussions with lots of "disagreements" all the time. This really helped me understand that it's not just me.

white_dragon88 4y ago

I’m pretty sure I’m autistic on some level, I can look back on my life and point at the many clear signs (which go well beyond socially awkward behaviour). What I do try to do though is not let that be a part of my identity. I hate identity politics in general, and the title rubbed me the wrong way. Firstly, who even says that? You? Like one person you met, or an article you read somewhere? It’s a pretty outlandish thing to say regardless of who is saying it, so the article feels like you’re basically teeing up and easy ball to hit. Just my thoughts, take them for what you will

larve 4y ago
It's actually just lifted from here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32192873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32192873

xupybd 4y ago

How did you learn you were autistic? I've always thought I might be but I've not invested the time in finding out.

larve 4y ago
I was watching the netflix documentary about rubik's cube on netflix with my wife, and you see this autistic kid (rubik's cube champion), who doesn't speak until he's three, being friend with a much more socially accomplished other champion, and you can see him over the documentary looking at his friend and learning. I saw that and I suddenly realized that my whole twenties, that's exactly what I did. I read books and copied other people and wrote notes about social rules and practiced and practiced. I also started speaking at age 3 or 4 (my parents weren't really worried because I grew up bilingual and apparently it's common for bilingual kids to speak late). I did take a few autism tests here and there, but always thought "oh they're just meant to make you feel special when you score high, that doesn't mean anything. plus i make good friends everywhere I go". When I told my wife she was like "who thinks that scoring high on an autism test is something people want", and we both took some of these tests. On one of the more widespread one (https://embrace-autism.com/autism-spectrum-quotient/ https://embrace-autism.com/autism-spectrum-quotient/ ), I scored 43, while she scored something like 12. My mind was absolutely blown. I started reading a few books and joining a few autism communities, and it might sound trite, but it's the first time in my life that I felt like I joined "my" community. So many of the stories and anecdotes I would read were like "finally I read something I can relate to". I am looking for an official diagnosis (not simple) without too much effort, because I find most of the value in now being able to articulate so many of the things that puzzle me, or the conflicts I might have with my wife, or behaviours of mine, and mostly not being ashamed anymore. It's been extremely liberating, and it provides me with better words and verbs to tackle difficult situations.
- xupybd 4y ago
  Wow 43 out of 50 is rather high. I fell under the the suggested threshold of 32 and got 29. I have similar memories of my 20s trying to learn how to behave in a social setting. But I also remember things clicking at some point and that part of the world stopped requiring so much effort. Thank you for sharing. I hope you're able to get your diagnosis.

RobRivera 4y ago

there is an interesting theory put forth that Quidditch is a metaphor for life. Harry is a seeker that ignores the entire game say for hyperfocusing on catching that little golden ball thingy (sorry, not a potterhead). The rest if the players play the game by all these rules, but each player has 1 seeker ignoring everything but that one Northstar, that super fast gold annoying thingy. I like to akin your choice as choosing to assume the role of seeker. its lonely, its challenging, and everyone else seems to not care to play THAT game (some may say is a metaphor for divinity). But the reward is YOU WIN THE GAME. significantly better payout. I share the metaphor to say that A) I understand you, B) I share your feelings and choice on the matter of identifying and managing Real Politik and C) congratulate you for identifying your true north star and having the strength to pursue in in spite of it not being rhe standard for others.

nakedrobot2 4y ago

You sound like the "asperger's" person who we are in the process of offboarding from our team. One can have asperger's and still be nice to people. These things are not mutually exclusive. I see too many people who find it convenient to be a toxic, rude bully, and don't know that they are, and use their condition as an excuse to be a jerk.

larve 4y ago
It could also be in between: Their actions are interpreted as way more of a rude behaviour than they intend them to be, and they don't know how to come across in a better manner. From my experience, it's usually not a problem to be pretty forward with people on the spectrum, if you are meaning well. My wife told me there is absolutely no problem with telling me to stop going on about a topic bluntly, and it is something I quite often do with my friends too. Same for pointing out that a certain way of phrasing something didn't come across well, in fact I really appreciate receiving these pieces of advice. What hurts is the "NT" way of communicating these things, hoping that I'd catch up on them. I don't.
apricot13 4y ago
Just fyi: > In 2013, the DSM-5 replaced Autistic Disorder, Asperger’s Disorder and other pervasive developmental disorders with the umbrella diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder.
- thingthatwas 4y ago
  It's still widely used as a term, given the people diagnosed with it retain their diagnosis. There's also a lexical lacuna without it for "autistic, but close to neurotypical-presenting", so it fills a need there in a way "autism" and even "high functioning autism" don't.

cocacolacowboy 4y ago