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Ten years with a Citroën C6 (2021)
- ycombinete 4y agoI loved my Citroen DS3. Just getting into it and starting it up was a pleasure. And what a pleasure to drive!
- isolli 4y agoMy first car (1993) was a Citroen BX. I loved the hydropneumatic suspension. The car would rise slowly after you started the engine. And there was a special mode where you could rise the car even higher to pass rough terrain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-levelling_suspension https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-levelling_suspension
- pantulis 4y agoThis is an impressive flex of one of its antecessors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVEXptaQszI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVEXptaQszI
- Kaibeezy 4y agoBought a Xantia a few years back mainly to try out the hydropneumatics. Not only did it tame the noticeable bumps, it smoothed regular roads mile after mile. I remember often thinking “Did they resurface that road since last time?”, and feeling like trips seemed shorter. Cool Giugiaro body too. Great car. Rust in peace, mon ami.
- rozenmd 4y agoFantastic read. Funnily enough, I developed a similar obsession with my 2005 Subaru Outback (having picked it up at around 200k kms, there was quite a bit to replace/fix).
- pantulis 4y agoI have a regular Ford Focus from 2004. Not obssessed with it by any stretch but I am curious as to what's the final mileage this machine can do over the years. It's now on 260k kms, which I think it's not much. Other than that, I guess I will part ways with it when combustion engines get forbidden in the Madrid city area where I live.
- agent008t 4y agoThe Ford Focus cars from back then seem amazingly robust and reliable.
- pantulis 4y agoTo be fair, it seems all petrol car models from that era onwards are robust and reliable too! My previous car was a 1982 Renault 14, handed over to me by my father. By 1996, with 120000 km that car had carburator and distributor issues that left me stranded on the roadside quite a few times. The Focus has had zero mechanical problems in 18 years doubling the distance. I believe gasoline engine technology did a quantum leap in the 90s decade.
- locallost 4y agoFrom part 4: "Since becoming my hobby rather than sole means of transport..." I was listening to an interview with Ray Magliozzi, the author of Car Talk, and he was asked what it would take to do his show, but about bicycles. The answer was, you'd need to make the bikes more complex and prone to failure.
- teddyh 4y ago> you'd need to make the bikes more complex and prone to failure. Also much more expensive, so that people are forced to consider doing these complex repairs themselves, or hiring mechanics, instead of just junking it. (Yes, there are many stupidly expensive bikes, both for sports racing and hipsterism. But those bikes are not bought by most regular people who just want a means of transport, and it’s most regular people who would be the target audience of such a bike talk show.)
- namdnay 4y agonow that ebikes are becoming common, I'd say we're getting closer to an automotive attitude. nobody is going to junk an ebike, even an entry-level 800 EUR one
- teddyh 4y agoOne aspect still missing (to create a bike talk show) is that e-bikes seems not to break down that often, nor are the repairs that expensive that you are sorely tempted to do it yourself.
- josefrichter 4y agoC6 is one of the most fascinating Citroens of recent era. And it’s probably a good investment as a youngtimer, it’s rare and the prices or only going up from now.
- namdnay 4y agoI don't think so, insurance is high, it burns a lot of fuel, and it's so complicated that repairs will be costly. The idea that an old luxury car is "better" than a newer economy model is something that sounds nice, but just doesn't work out
- jacquesm 4y agoThat depends on the 'old luxury car'.
- avereveard 4y agoThe low sales model are almost never a good investment for daily usage cars because there won't be as many replacement part from wreckers once official support ends.
- josefrichter 4y agoWell, the maintenance cost is always higher for vintage cars. I am pointing to the fact that it's quite unique design that I, personally, subjectively, think has a potential to ripe over time, just like some other older Citroens. I don't mean it as everyday replacement of modern car, I agree that doesn't work. The development in car industry is actually so fast, that a new car is infinitely better than a 10yo car.
- Svip 4y agoThe C6 was honestly a bit of a disappointment. Yes, it felt like a last hurrah back to the glory days of Citroën with the DS and the CX, but it still fell short. The C6 only used the hydropneumatic system for suspension. Steering and brakes were replaced with ordinary systems. And while it gave as smooth a ride as any classic hydropneumatic Citroën, it always felt like it didn't quite get there. But the biggest sin of all, and even Top Gear mentioned this, is the lack of leg room in the backseat. Even my Xantia has better leg room there than the C6. And maintenance wise, it's a nightmare. It's nowhere as rock-solid as the XM or as "simple" as a DS. While it's probably a good investment, considering its few numbers (only 23k were made, I believe), and the fact that it's interesting, it's probably best to mostly keep it in a garage for one or two decades. I really wanted to be excited about the C6, but it's so much further down my Citroën shopping list than even a Dyane 6 (and I'm mostly into Citroën for the hydropneumatic suspension).
- cfn 4y agoI also had a Xantia at some point and the hidraulic had a complete failure while doing a 360 downhill in the sierras here in Portugal. It was mighty scary as everything failed: suspension, steering and brakes (and I got the dreaded red stop light on the dash). Thankfully I was going very slowly and there was a long straight to help me stop. I think having a separate system for the breaks is a good thing. I have to add that I was very happy with that car and my riding experience mirrors the article even though it was not a C6.
- Svip 4y agoThe advantage of the combined suspension and braking meant that the car would adjust its brake pressure based on load. A heavier loaded car would thus brake harder with the same amount of pedal pressure. The handbrake is still entirely mechanic, and is your emergency brake in case the brakes fail (the same would be the case on a regular car). Fortunately, I've never had that experience yet, and while I've heard the stories, I am still convinced the combined steering, braking and suspension system is a mechanical superior system, even if it requires more maintenance. I'd concede, that from a maintenance's perspective, it's an inferior system. Which is probably why Citroën abandoned it.
- _ph_ 4y agoThe C6 looks to me like a great design template for an electric Citroën. They always looked like coming from the future - a future that could be now.
- objektif 4y agoI think this is the biggest problem with EVs. Manufacturers are trying to make them look too futuristic. Why can't they look like normal cars?
- namdnay 4y agothe PSA and Renault EVs look perfectly normal. So do the Kia/Hyundai ones apart from their two flagships
- nikanj 4y agoI’d pay stupid amounts of money for a combination of an 1950s design with modern EV tech&safety. The fins, the two-color paint job, etc.
- hef19898 4y agoThere are actually a couple of companies doing EV conversions for classic cars. Safety is an issue so, and safety is also what will make a pure 50s visiual desogn impossible today.
- nikanj 4y agoMost of the design language that I yearn for has zero effect on safety. I don't want my car to look like an aggressive feline animal when viewed from the front, but essentially all modern cars do. I want my rear lights to be shaped like, well, lights, not like abstract paintings. Etc
- Kaibeezy 4y agoSee also: cars of Gattaca https://www.imcdb.org/m119177.html https://www.imcdb.org/m119177.html
- wawjgreen 4y agoi developed an obsession with Rocky Mountains mountain-bike; although mine is cheap one, the bike is well-designed and can attain speeds of 35 km/h within 10-seconds...I can bike at that speed for up to 40 km before I can describe it as a modest workout. The bike is my friend. It seems to think...and have its own opinions. No, I am no schizo....I sometimes talk to it. I ask it: how you baby? EDIT: why the downvotes?
- fractallyte 4y agoProbably because it's expected that comments should be about Citroens, or least have some connection to the topic...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- orthoxerox 4y agoCitroën is slowly dying. It's always been a quirky brand, but PSA has chosen to make Peugeot the main brand (let's ignore the PRC for now), and Citroën has been demoted to almost pure quirk. I don't expect it to survive now that Stellantis is a thing, maybe as a regional Chinese brand the way Opels as sold as Vauxhalls in the UK.
- the_mitsuhiko 4y agoIf PSA/Stellantis has decided to do that, they didn’t do a good job at communicating this. Citroen has a premium brand with DS which Peugeot does not have and so far they haven’t fully detached that from Citroen yet.
- orthoxerox 4y agoDS is more or less a standalone brand these days. I don't see a single mention of Citroen on https://www.dsautomobiles.com/ https://www.dsautomobiles.com/
- hawski 4y agoOn Abarth's site there is no mention of Fiat, but I think they are clearly connected. Also all are under the same umbrella.
- wobbleblob 4y agoI can relate to this, I am a dedicated fan of the Toyota Corolla
- macksd 4y agoSame, but I certainly can't relate to all the failures...
- gambiting 4y agoAs Ed Bolian put it once - this sort of thing is the true test of your automotive obsession. When presented with a car like this, which undoubtedly has a several pages long list of fixes and items that needed replacing, do you then: 1) realize that this car is going to be a money pit, it kept breaking down for years and it will very likely continue doing so or 2) decide that this is actually great - look at this massive list of repairs! Surely it means the car is well maintained and will serve you trouble free for years. (that's the video in question - highly entertaining imho: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUXm72vyXOE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUXm72vyXOE )
- bishopwasahero 4y agoHey, if you are interested in noughties French car design, I have posted a piece today on the Renault Megane II, which includes a link to a series of articles co-written by Patrick Le Quement on a great design discussion website called 'Design Field Trip'. The article can be found on this link : https://driventowrite.com/2022/08/16/unforgotten-the-renault-megane-ii/ https://driventowrite.com/2022/08/16/unforgotten-the-renault.... I hope I am not offending anyone related to this site by including this link.
- maiorana 4y agoI have a 2006 Subaru Forester with the turbo engine. I've replaced the exhaust, radiator, fixed numerous oil leaks, and the steering fluid is leaking now. I feel 0 love for it and see it as a weight around my neck, but I feel beholden to keep it going for some reason. Maybe it's the sunk cost concept. Oh it gets shitty gas mileage too and the AC cuts out after 25 minutes. I don't think it's turning into obsession (god, I hope not), but when I look to sell it the market is flooded with similar makes and models and nothing is selling. It's like "what's the point if I can't get my money back out?" When I do drive it though and I stomp on the gas pedal it feels like a rocket ship and my love for it is reaffirmed just a little bit.
- semi-extrinsic 4y agoI had this type of relation with my previous Peugeot 307. Bought it used for €6000, drove it for ten years. Towards the end, all the ABS sensors were held on by epoxy since the bolts had snapped off during replacements. Fun fact, when the ABS system is out of operation and you lock up the wheels on an icy road going 70-80 km/h, the car is easy to control but it automatically turns on the hazard lights. Confused the hell out of me at first. I had a jury rigged wiring harness for the front indicator lights. The exhaust consisted more and more of my crappy stick welds rather than original metal. I had changed basically all suspension and brake parts at least once myself. Main headlights were starting to wear thin since the haze had been polished off many times. Drove it until the front right wheel literally fell off during one Christmas holiday (the steering link broke and the wheel turned 90 degrees out, fortunately at low speed). At that point it had close to 300 000 km on it, and we had been test driving new cars for almost a year in anticipation of the final trip to the eternal rusting fields. Total cost of ownership was amazing though, and it was really spacious and practical, I miss that car.
- rlf_dev 4y agoBy the end of my time with it, my 307 headlight stick would also trigger the horn whenever I turned on the high beams, the AC would stop working at around 90 KM/h, the air intake pipe to the turbo had at least two tears glued down and I had to carry a 5L jug of water replenish the radiator on hot days. I sold it with 340k KM and AFAIK it's still being driven, refusing to die.
- bishopwasahero 4y agoI'm the guy who wrote the article on Driven to Write. I'm delighted it's sparked further discussion and debate here. Interestingly, I have started to investigate whether it's possible to convert it to an EV. There's a company in the UK which has developed and shown an EV conversion for the DS which set my mind wondering. It'll be stupidly expensive but might just create the best looking EV this side of the converted DS. Thanks for your time.
- Kaibeezy 4y agoOP here. I found your article after once again being dragged down the C6 rabbit hole. There was a comment on my earlier post re Jacques Pepin’s love of French cars, and off I went. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32368624 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32368624 I was very close to buying a C6 after my Xantia perished a couple of years ago Found a winner with a manual transmission on a C6 forum, but got sniped somehow. Ended up with a German midsize estate, which is highly competent, and has a stick so it’s reasonably satisfying. I don’t look back at it every time I walk away though. I’m sure you’re aware of Neil Young’s project involving vintage Lincoln behemoths. This was a decade ago at least. Ended in tragedy, IIRC, but I believe it inspired others to re-look at what vintage cars could make good conversion candidates.
- bishopwasahero 4y agoIt's true that there are a few manual C6s. I think they all came with the 2.2L four pot diesel, which did an OK job under the bonnet/ hood of the C6, but change the wafting nature of the car and came without the semi-intelligent AMVAR management of the suspension. I'm under no illusion that the C6 is an imperfect interpretation of Citroen's prior oleopneumatic mastery - I simply was not brave enough at the time to go for a DS, or a CX or XM for that matter, all of which I believe would be more true to how a large oleopneumatic Cit should be. Particularly disappointing is that PSA did not see to fit the Xantia Activa's 'active' suspension - that would have been one heck of a car. As it is, I know of people who put 3.0L V6 engines in the bays of UK-spec Xantia Activas to create true sheep in wolf's clothing, cars that scare Porsches and Ferraris on track-days, so I am assured.
- Gordonjcp 4y agoI've had a couple of CXes, a couple of GSAs, a BX, and about five XMs, and an AX GT (which obviously didn't have hydropneumatic suspension but did have a 90bhp engine in a 600kg body). I wish I still had them.
- mrlonglong 4y agoIt's black.
- bishopwasahero 4y agoNah, Ganache mate, a shade of brown.
- mrlonglong 4y agoWell pal, it's a bloody dark shade of brown !
- bishopwasahero 4y agoTrue - still, definitely not black.
- mrlonglong 4y agoIt's a little black, yeah.
- bishopwasahero 4y agonope
- mrlonglong 4y agoThere's an overbearing hint of blackness, that's for sure!