5 ms·

Foods That Fight Inflammation

45 points by rawgabbit 4y ago

rawgabbit 4y ago
"Many major diseases that plague us—including cancer, heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, depression, and Alzheimer's—have been linked to chronic inflammation."
- epgui 4y ago
  This is completely true (even if it’s more complicated than it sounds), maybe you are getting downvoted because it’s obvious? I’m not sure. (biochemist)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- slowmovintarget 4y ago
  ...and chronic inflammation has been linked to lack of physical exercise and poor diet. Inflammation is helpful when rebuilding muscles and recovering from work. Inflammation is harmful when there's nothing to work on. The body goes haywire and you get all manner of problems. The kinds of food you eat can contribute, but it is largely that we have an engine designed to work that we're perhaps letting idle in the garage, that seems to be the main problem. Crohn's, for example, is a disease that manifests with severe inflammatory problems. One of the chief ways to keep it in check (not a cure, just one of the things that help) is significant exercise (fitness) and controlling food intake and quality. You walk your dog... you need to "walk" your own self too.
  - copperx 4y ago
    > Inflammation is helpful when rebuilding muscles and recovering from work. So, exercise increases inflammation in the short term but reduces chronic inflammation?
    - epgui 4y ago
      Sort of, but whether it’s beneficial or pathologic is more complicated than whether it’s short or long duration. Chronic or sustained inflammation is a sign of dysregulation, but acute inflammation can also be pathologic. Moreover, the inflammation in physical exercise, in physiologic conditions, is actually beneficial (it’s physiologically angiogenic and anabolic). In other words, the benefits of exercise don’t just outweigh the harms of inflammation: rather, exercise can create well-regulated, physiological and beneficial inflammation. Inflammation is as complex a topic as cancer (in fact the two are pretty much inseparable): it’s a fascinating beast!
Eleison23 4y ago
- epgui 4y ago
  > MDs don't offer clinical tests for "inflammation" Yes they do, there are a bunch of routine tests. They are typically only ordered when they are clinically relevant, but if you went to a clinic and asked for a CRP and sedimentation rate (or whatever) I doubt it would be that hard to get one. Other good tests are IL-1 and TNFa, but I don’t think those are routine or cheap. > allopathy / [evidence-based medicine] doesn’t recognize “inflammation” as a symptom caused by our diets, or something they can prevent, beyond prescribing ibuprofen to allegedly reduce it. Yes it does, but it’s not so simple. The causes of inflammation are multifactorial and there usually is not a quick or easy fix. Ibuprofen clearly does reduce inflammation, but it obviously is different than attacking the problem at the source. Most doctors unfortunately don’t have time to sit you down and make a detailed plan for improving your diet, to stop smoking and drinking, and to exercise more. Most if not all medical schools teach this in Canada/US afaik (I speak from experience), and the medical literature is certainly packed with papers on the subject… but the resource constraints (not enough time, too many patients with urgent needs) on the job mean that theory and practice are not exactly the same. That’s not a failing of medical science, it’s a failing of our administrative and political systems.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > But MDs don't offer clinical tests for "inflammation" They do, in fact. > because allopathy doesn't recognize "inflammation" as a symptom caused by our diets, or something they can prevent, beyond prescribing ibuprofen to allegedly reduce it. Yes, it does. In fact, it's almost the opposite: medicine recognizes inflammation as a common symptom (and intermediary contributor to lots of other conditions) with many causes and contributions, and the tests for inflammation don’t distinguish between causes, or even between the broad categories of chronic and acute inflammation, and therefore are only viewed as having particular marginal benefit in certain circumstances. OTOH, they are indicated when certain symptom clusters appear, or as part of a regime of monitoring inflammatory conditions.
airbreather 4y ago
Circumin, extract of tumeric is a very strong anti-inflammatory, but has to be mixed with a pepper extract ( piperine ) for maximum bio availability. It is over the counter and seems to have no known risks, but works better than any other anti-inflammatory I have tried, including prescription ones, and I know many people who agree from experience. I raised this on HN once before and had know it alls quoting assorted studies as it being marginally effective and placebo effect etc etc (despite them never having tried it), but is very effective and relatively fast acting.
- copperx 4y ago
  > but is very effective and relatively fast acting How much did it decrease your hsCRP test levels? And how long did you take it before you saw a change in labwork?
  - airbreather 4y ago
    The impact is so noticeable no tests were required. Who cares about the numbers when it is the effect that is desired? How do we know those tests are conclusive on their own? I am big on science, but bigger on results. If you need an anti-immflammatory then try it, if it doesn't work then don't use it. There seems to be almost zero possible downside, so why not. It seems really only effective for soft tissue swelling and inflammation. I had an American guy in Bali who owned the chalets in Ulawatu where we stayed who had an ongoing back injury and was needing sometimes to be on some strong medication that put him out of it. I gave him our stash of circumin to try and it was so effective that when we left his Balinese wife was in tears thanking us for introducing him to it because it was more effective and no cognitive impacts. Guy at work was on twice daily voltaren for his shoulder and hadn't played golf for three years. Started the circumin and three days later played a round. Not conclusive, but just two of about twenty stories I could tell you after I found out about it from my sister in law and told others.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > Who cares about the numbers when it is the effect that is desired? People who know about the placebo effect.
epgui 4y ago
For people who are interested in learning more about inflammation and are highly motivated self-learners, I recommend this book: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/fundamentals-of-inflammation/2A0DEF02288989253BA3B1266C265AF1 https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/fundamentals-of-inflamm... https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Inflammation-Charles-Serhan-PhD/dp/0521887291 https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Inflammation-Charles-Ser...
copperx 4y ago
I was tempted for a second to buy the pamphlet, but then I remembered that they don't say anything new; they just dispense generic diet advice as a GP doctor would. Does anybody know of a science-based anti-inflammatory diet? A diet that has been tested to decrease hsCRP levels? I'm tempted to go to a dietician, but I can't shake the feeling that it's all voodoo.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- lambdaba 4y ago
  If you're open to it check out the zerocarb / carnivore community. It's extreme but it does work.
nikolay 4y ago
Honestly, the quality of this is a bit disgraceful for Harvard Health!
raarts 4y ago
Except for the red meat this sounds a lot like my low-carb keto-like diet. Curious about the red meat though. Seems like a hot topic since I read a lot of conflicting 'evidence based' information on it. Unfortunately my trust in the possibility to determine what's true or not is decreasing. This is mostly lack of time but also because interest groups spend a lot of money trying to establish their narrative through information manipulation.
- lambdaba 4y ago
  To quote the article "red meat (burgers, steaks)" - one of these is not like the other. Even so, there is a word of difference between the meat of an unhealthy animal (especially the fat) and a healthy one. It does seem that anecdotally a meat-only diet resolves chronic inflammation: reddit.com/r/zerocarb
  - raarts 4y ago
    Yes, Michaela Peterson's TEDx talk is very interesting.
    - unicornporn 4y ago
      Mikhaila? That is not a name that I would drop in the context of dietary advice.
      - lambdaba 4y ago
        Unless you think her story is entirely fabricated, it's a strong anecdote to support a meat-only diet can alleviate inflammation. I mean, she claims to have had hip and ankle replacement at age 17 because of arthritis. All of these conditions subsided on a meat-only diet and promptly returned when she attempted "cheats" (one she mentions is soy sauce).
- fat_cantor 4y ago
  Most studies lump red meat together with processed meat products, but when treated as separate food categories, the negative associations with red meat tend to disappear. That said, red meat clearly promotes inflammation, which is necessary for things like building muscle. Optimal health results from the right balance of inflammation, not its minimization. The authors focus no anti-inflammatory foods because most Americans are imbalanced toward inflammatory processed foods. It's very individual though - allergies, autoimmune responses and other inflammatory cascades are complex; I get debilitating inflammation from tomatoes.
eurasiantiger 4y ago
Fish is problematic because farmed fish is routinely full of dioxins and non-farmed fish is full of microplastics. Vegetables are problematic because of widespread use of glyphosate, which also makes the veggies non-vegan.
krijoshi 4y ago
If you want to know foods that fight inflammation just look at traditional Indian diet it’s full of such foods because this optimisation is at the centre of traditional Indian diet
begolden_io 4y ago
What an exciting topic. In case it is helpful, I wanted to mention the company my co-founder and I are building to help measure and manage inflammation levels using at home blood based hsCRP testing and a digital platform: https://www.begolden.online/ https://www.begolden.online/. It gives you the flexibility to run your own "N of 1" experiments to see what works for you. I've been measuring my levels for over a year (after I found out I was at high risk of breast cancer and had a bilateral lumpectomy) - you can see the results here: https://www.begolden.online/post/our-ceo-s-hscrp-scores-over-time https://www.begolden.online/post/our-ceo-s-hscrp-scores-over... We would love any feedback on if you would find Be Golden helpful and if there are certain topics you would like to see on our blog

45 points by rawgabbit 4y ago

"Many major diseases that plague us—including cancer, heart disease, diabetes, arthritis, depression, and Alzheimer's—have been linked to chronic inflammation."

epgui 4y ago
This is completely true (even if it’s more complicated than it sounds), maybe you are getting downvoted because it’s obvious? I’m not sure. (biochemist)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
slowmovintarget 4y ago
...and chronic inflammation has been linked to lack of physical exercise and poor diet. Inflammation is helpful when rebuilding muscles and recovering from work. Inflammation is harmful when there's nothing to work on. The body goes haywire and you get all manner of problems. The kinds of food you eat can contribute, but it is largely that we have an engine designed to work that we're perhaps letting idle in the garage, that seems to be the main problem. Crohn's, for example, is a disease that manifests with severe inflammatory problems. One of the chief ways to keep it in check (not a cure, just one of the things that help) is significant exercise (fitness) and controlling food intake and quality. You walk your dog... you need to "walk" your own self too.
- copperx 4y ago
  > Inflammation is helpful when rebuilding muscles and recovering from work. So, exercise increases inflammation in the short term but reduces chronic inflammation?
  - epgui 4y ago
    Sort of, but whether it’s beneficial or pathologic is more complicated than whether it’s short or long duration. Chronic or sustained inflammation is a sign of dysregulation, but acute inflammation can also be pathologic. Moreover, the inflammation in physical exercise, in physiologic conditions, is actually beneficial (it’s physiologically angiogenic and anabolic). In other words, the benefits of exercise don’t just outweigh the harms of inflammation: rather, exercise can create well-regulated, physiological and beneficial inflammation. Inflammation is as complex a topic as cancer (in fact the two are pretty much inseparable): it’s a fascinating beast!

Eleison23 4y ago

epgui 4y ago
> MDs don't offer clinical tests for "inflammation" Yes they do, there are a bunch of routine tests. They are typically only ordered when they are clinically relevant, but if you went to a clinic and asked for a CRP and sedimentation rate (or whatever) I doubt it would be that hard to get one. Other good tests are IL-1 and TNFa, but I don’t think those are routine or cheap. > allopathy / [evidence-based medicine] doesn’t recognize “inflammation” as a symptom caused by our diets, or something they can prevent, beyond prescribing ibuprofen to allegedly reduce it. Yes it does, but it’s not so simple. The causes of inflammation are multifactorial and there usually is not a quick or easy fix. Ibuprofen clearly does reduce inflammation, but it obviously is different than attacking the problem at the source. Most doctors unfortunately don’t have time to sit you down and make a detailed plan for improving your diet, to stop smoking and drinking, and to exercise more. Most if not all medical schools teach this in Canada/US afaik (I speak from experience), and the medical literature is certainly packed with papers on the subject… but the resource constraints (not enough time, too many patients with urgent needs) on the job mean that theory and practice are not exactly the same. That’s not a failing of medical science, it’s a failing of our administrative and political systems.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dragonwriter 4y ago
> But MDs don't offer clinical tests for "inflammation" They do, in fact. > because allopathy doesn't recognize "inflammation" as a symptom caused by our diets, or something they can prevent, beyond prescribing ibuprofen to allegedly reduce it. Yes, it does. In fact, it's almost the opposite: medicine recognizes inflammation as a common symptom (and intermediary contributor to lots of other conditions) with many causes and contributions, and the tests for inflammation don’t distinguish between causes, or even between the broad categories of chronic and acute inflammation, and therefore are only viewed as having particular marginal benefit in certain circumstances. OTOH, they are indicated when certain symptom clusters appear, or as part of a regime of monitoring inflammatory conditions.

airbreather 4y ago

Circumin, extract of tumeric is a very strong anti-inflammatory, but has to be mixed with a pepper extract ( piperine ) for maximum bio availability. It is over the counter and seems to have no known risks, but works better than any other anti-inflammatory I have tried, including prescription ones, and I know many people who agree from experience. I raised this on HN once before and had know it alls quoting assorted studies as it being marginally effective and placebo effect etc etc (despite them never having tried it), but is very effective and relatively fast acting.

copperx 4y ago
> but is very effective and relatively fast acting How much did it decrease your hsCRP test levels? And how long did you take it before you saw a change in labwork?
- airbreather 4y ago
  The impact is so noticeable no tests were required. Who cares about the numbers when it is the effect that is desired? How do we know those tests are conclusive on their own? I am big on science, but bigger on results. If you need an anti-immflammatory then try it, if it doesn't work then don't use it. There seems to be almost zero possible downside, so why not. It seems really only effective for soft tissue swelling and inflammation. I had an American guy in Bali who owned the chalets in Ulawatu where we stayed who had an ongoing back injury and was needing sometimes to be on some strong medication that put him out of it. I gave him our stash of circumin to try and it was so effective that when we left his Balinese wife was in tears thanking us for introducing him to it because it was more effective and no cognitive impacts. Guy at work was on twice daily voltaren for his shoulder and hadn't played golf for three years. Started the circumin and three days later played a round. Not conclusive, but just two of about twenty stories I could tell you after I found out about it from my sister in law and told others.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > Who cares about the numbers when it is the effect that is desired? People who know about the placebo effect.

epgui 4y ago

For people who are interested in learning more about inflammation and are highly motivated self-learners, I recommend this book: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/fundamentals-of-inflammation/2A0DEF02288989253BA3B1266C265AF1 https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/fundamentals-of-inflamm... https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Inflammation-Charles-Serhan-PhD/dp/0521887291 https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Inflammation-Charles-Ser...

copperx 4y ago

I was tempted for a second to buy the pamphlet, but then I remembered that they don't say anything new; they just dispense generic diet advice as a GP doctor would. Does anybody know of a science-based anti-inflammatory diet? A diet that has been tested to decrease hsCRP levels? I'm tempted to go to a dietician, but I can't shake the feeling that it's all voodoo.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lambdaba 4y ago
If you're open to it check out the zerocarb / carnivore community. It's extreme but it does work.

nikolay 4y ago

Honestly, the quality of this is a bit disgraceful for Harvard Health!

raarts 4y ago

Except for the red meat this sounds a lot like my low-carb keto-like diet. Curious about the red meat though. Seems like a hot topic since I read a lot of conflicting 'evidence based' information on it. Unfortunately my trust in the possibility to determine what's true or not is decreasing. This is mostly lack of time but also because interest groups spend a lot of money trying to establish their narrative through information manipulation.

lambdaba 4y ago
To quote the article "red meat (burgers, steaks)" - one of these is not like the other. Even so, there is a word of difference between the meat of an unhealthy animal (especially the fat) and a healthy one. It does seem that anecdotally a meat-only diet resolves chronic inflammation: reddit.com/r/zerocarb
- raarts 4y ago
  Yes, Michaela Peterson's TEDx talk is very interesting.
  - unicornporn 4y ago
    Mikhaila? That is not a name that I would drop in the context of dietary advice.
    - lambdaba 4y ago
      Unless you think her story is entirely fabricated, it's a strong anecdote to support a meat-only diet can alleviate inflammation. I mean, she claims to have had hip and ankle replacement at age 17 because of arthritis. All of these conditions subsided on a meat-only diet and promptly returned when she attempted "cheats" (one she mentions is soy sauce).
fat_cantor 4y ago
Most studies lump red meat together with processed meat products, but when treated as separate food categories, the negative associations with red meat tend to disappear. That said, red meat clearly promotes inflammation, which is necessary for things like building muscle. Optimal health results from the right balance of inflammation, not its minimization. The authors focus no anti-inflammatory foods because most Americans are imbalanced toward inflammatory processed foods. It's very individual though - allergies, autoimmune responses and other inflammatory cascades are complex; I get debilitating inflammation from tomatoes.

eurasiantiger 4y ago

Fish is problematic because farmed fish is routinely full of dioxins and non-farmed fish is full of microplastics. Vegetables are problematic because of widespread use of glyphosate, which also makes the veggies non-vegan.

krijoshi 4y ago

If you want to know foods that fight inflammation just look at traditional Indian diet it’s full of such foods because this optimisation is at the centre of traditional Indian diet

begolden_io 4y ago

What an exciting topic. In case it is helpful, I wanted to mention the company my co-founder and I are building to help measure and manage inflammation levels using at home blood based hsCRP testing and a digital platform: https://www.begolden.online/ https://www.begolden.online/. It gives you the flexibility to run your own "N of 1" experiments to see what works for you. I've been measuring my levels for over a year (after I found out I was at high risk of breast cancer and had a bilateral lumpectomy) - you can see the results here: https://www.begolden.online/post/our-ceo-s-hscrp-scores-over-time https://www.begolden.online/post/our-ceo-s-hscrp-scores-over... We would love any feedback on if you would find Be Golden helpful and if there are certain topics you would like to see on our blog