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I have a friend working for a company whose biggest clients are in the Emirates. One of said client is the government, and it is asking them to buy some very sp
by BiteCode_dev 4y ago
I have a friend working for a company whose biggest clients are in the Emirates. One of said client is the government, and it is asking them to buy some very specific equipment, knowing fully well this equipment is only sold in Israel.
However, the Emirates cannot trade with Israel, and refuse to pay for any equipment labelled as coming from this country. Calling one of the officials, they asked for a solution. They told them to ship everything first to the UK. There, they should unpack every single object, and package them again with different country labels. Once the box has passed custom, nobody will raise the topic about the equipment origin.
And so this is what they do.
- josephcsible 4y ago> the Emirates cannot trade with Israel Is "cannot" really accurate? Isn't it more like they voluntarily chose not to do so?
- ericbarrett 4y agoI read that as shorthand for "Emirates-based entities cannot..."
- kps 4y agoUsed to. Israel and UAE normalized relations in 2020 and signed a free trade deal this spring.
- josephcsible 4y agoSure. My point is just that the UAE could have done that whenever they wanted; nobody was ever forcing them to not trade with Israel.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- avh02 4y agoI'm not sure that, at least historically, that would be looked upon amicably by their neighbouring countries or populations. That has changed over time though which has allowed this to happen.
- rr888 4y agoThat's what I thought too, not sure why OP said "Emirates cannot trade with Israel", maybe its an old anecdote.
- BiteCode_dev 4y agoOld anecdote, and I'm French, so I'm probably using the incorrect tense to tell the story.
- rr888 4y agoYeah makes sense. I love the politics like this where everyone is firmly in solidarity but everyone is making deals out the back door. Like Europeans at war with Russia but buying gas, Americans hating China but spending all their money on stuff made there, Communist leaders hating America but sending their kids to school there.
- BiteCode_dev 4y agoCuba getting stuff from America, pro-life manifestants getting abortions, USSR smuggling US computers, KKK members surfing Ebony adult sites. That's just humanity at this point. We are full of contradictions.
- lupire 4y ago
- BiteCode_dev 4y agoThere is this human convention about "can/cannot" that assumes the reader is able to figure out the nuance of it. If I say, "I can't walk it the street naked", I'm expecting you to understand the underlying causes. I'm not expecting that I have to explain to you that, yes, nothing prevent me physically to walk in the street naked, but indeed, I chose every day not to do it because I don't want to pay the social and/or legal price for it. In the same way, given that tensions in the Middle East are pretty famous and that political issues between Muslim & Jews have implications in international trades, I'm making the assumption readers understand what "cannot" means here.
- josephcsible 4y agoMy point is that the UAE is a sovereign country. The only law that prevented trade with Israel was the one they made themselves. There wasn't any legal price for repealing it.
- BiteCode_dev 4y agoIndeed, and again, I'm expecting you to understand that they are making this choice because they don't want to pay the consequences of it. And that "cannot" is a short way to state that. Now, from reading your comments, I'm going to assume you are in good faith, and you simply can't see what consequences they can face. Although we can't know for sure such things without being an expert in middle-east politics, one can understand that if two groups of people have been at odds with each others for a long time, suddenly doing business with the opposite party is going to have political consequences. E.G: assuming you are American. If you are a republican group, you can get financed by a left-leaning institution, but this will have political consequences.
- josephcsible 4y ago> they are making this choice because they don't way to pay the consequences of it. And that "cannot" is a short way to state that. I don't think that's a short way of saying the same thing though, for the kind of consequences you mean at least. Imagine if I were a vegan for ethical reasons. It'd be fine for me to say "I don't eat meat", but a lie to say "I can't eat meat", since I'd be perfectly capable of doing so, and be fine if I did, and just not want to anyway. Contrast this with if I had alpha-gal syndrome and someone me offered me a steak. In that case, I could truthfully say "I can't eat that".
- Jugurtha 4y agoYes. Some do it in Marseille, France. Citizens of many countries would be in big trouble if they have a stamp from Israeli customs on their passports. Customs apparently issue a separate document not to put a stamp on the passport as a result. This enabled many tourists who are "not supposed" to go there to nonetheless go there.
- TakuYam 4y agoI’m not sure if they still do but you used to be able to hold two passports simultaneously. One that was ‘clean’ for countries that didn’t recognise Israel and another for Israel.
- Jugurtha 4y agoI meant citizens of the other countries that don't have diplomatic relations trying to go to Israel. They only have one passport and would be in trouble if they visited as their passport would be stamped, thus the scheme of a separate document. Meanwhile, the government buys things from Israel that transit via some nearby country to "simplify imports" through "creative incoterms" and naming and all.
- vidarh 4y agoDiffers by country, but certainly true some places. Norway for example allows you to apply for a second passport, and the need for a "clean" one is one of the valid reasons you can give.
- kolencherry 4y agoYou still can in the US. [0] This exact use case is listed as one of the reasons the US Department of State will issue a second passport book. [0] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/have-passport/second-passport-book.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/have-pa...
- bloak 4y agoIsrael stopped stamping passports years ago, as I understand it. They give you a separate piece of paper/plastic instead. There may well be other combinations of countries that justify a person having multiple passports.
- fallingknife 4y agoWhy go all the way to the UK to do the swap, though?
- BiteCode_dev 4y agoDon't know. Maybe they have a platform here.
- Maursault 4y agoUnlike in the US, where it is expressly against federal law to remove origin marks, and sure to attract enthusiastic prosecution, the UK has no law – Act of Parliament or secondary legislation – which generally requires products to be origin marked. The exception to this is food which is required to be origin marked under EU Regulation 1169/2011. Origin marking for all products other than food is voluntary. So that is why.
- robotnikman 4y agoSomewhat odd, considering that NSO group sold their services to the UAE
- ycombinete 4y ago> the Emirates cannot trade with Israel This is no longer true. The UAE normalised relations with Israel, almost two years ago[0]. There are even Israeli VCs, like Entree Capital, funding startups in the UAE. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93United_Arab_Emirates_normalization_agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93United_Arab_Emi...
- _trampeltier 4y agoI know some storys with relabeling some products in Switzerland to. A country would not deal with the EU. So stuff came to Switzerland, got a new label and got shipped. International trading is a kind of funny place. I know a women who works on a company who make also things for large gas pipes (process industrie). She said, long before the war started, funny thing happened with a lot of involved companys.
- lostlogin 4y ago> She said, long before the war started, funny thing happened with a lot of involved companys. Are you able to give any examples?
- _trampeltier 4y agoGot new banc accounts, changed owner, etc. Most prominent example: Germany Launches €10 Billion Bailout for Gazprom’s Local Unit https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31773314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31773314
- lostlogin 4y agoIsn’t that all long after it started though?
- _trampeltier 4y agoYes and now. Maybe this was a bad example. The start here was short after the war started, true. Since I also don't know any names by myself, I can't tell much more. But it was the only example in the media. Also interessting is, but I never read why somewhere, Rheinmetall Defense for ex., they made year for year the same amount of money (10 years back). Until two years before the war, they made much more and one year before the war, more much more money again. Also I know a guy who workes there sometimes. He said they had all hands full of work ti produce munition at least a year before the war started.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago> However, the Emirates cannot trade with Israel, that's a ruse used only internally to foment hatred against "the Jews" https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/25/the-uae-spends-big-on-israeli-spyware-to-listen-in-on-a-dissident/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/25/the-uae-spends-big-on-i...
- lostlogin 4y agoIt is possible to disagree with a state and it’s policies while being fine with its people. I’d put quite a few countries in this category. I’m pretty confident that’s not what the UAE are doing, and don’t support them.
- geph2021 4y agoTell your friend to tread carefully with requests like this. My yearly "Business Conduct Training" (required by my employer) explicitly lists things like this as against company policy, a fireable offence, not to mention potentially illegal (circumventing embargoes, trade restrictions or sanctions).
- outworlder 4y agoMy "Standards of Business Conduct" training says exactly the same thing.
- alyandon 4y agoSame here - for $VERY_LARGE_COMPANY.
- balls187 4y agoIn the US at least, running afoul of Export/Import controls and laws guarantees a stay at Club Fed.
- ChuckNorris89 4y agoEuropean here: Is Club Fed slang for prison?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- balls187 4y agoYes, apologies and thanks for asking for clarification. It's slang for Federal Prison, but for white collar crimes (less austere accommodations).
- smugma 4y agoIt's a play on Club Med (which is more of a European thing, Med being short for Mediterranean, and here Fed short for Federal, as in Federal crime/prison). I had never heard the term before today, but did appreciate its cleverness.